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Neumann's first studio headphone - presenting the NDH 20
Old 26th February 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
And then, there’s this highly sceptical article ( in French ), that compares the announced tech specs of the Neumann to the Senn 630vb as being nearly identical, and suggests that this could be merely a rebranding of the old headphones under a more prestigious name among audio pros...
[MAJ] Neumann NDH 20 : Clone du Sennheiser HD 630VB ? - Audio Du Village

The plot thickens
Yeah, but it’s a pre release paper. The guy talks about... pictures.
Old 27th February 2019
  #32
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We tried them in the studio. We used Apollo’s hp amp for it.
Sadly we sent them back.
They are not flat at all...
They are very bass weighted and we missed the very top-end in our reference tracks.

We owned 410, 300 and the smaller 120 - soundwise they are playing in the same league.
So, we hoped that the Neumann headphones have the same color.
Old 27th February 2019
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nott View Post
They are not flat at all...
They are very bass weighted and we missed the very top-end in our reference tracks.
.
agreed. Bass heavy and lack of detail really surprised me. With all this talk of them being super-flat I even thought something was perhaps wrong with the unit I tried, but it seems I'm not the only one to feel this way.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #34
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Why isn't Neumann showing the frequency response graph like they did with the kh120 and 310 ? , I doubt these are flat , alot of people have been complaining about the overhyped bass , if you are looking for a flat sounding pair of cans then get the Shure srh1840 , they are about light on the bass but translate well to speaker systems
Old 2nd March 2019
  #35
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Found a review in German with a frequency response graph , looks flat to me with a little peak in the highs

Neumann NDH 20 im Test bei kopfhoerer.de
Old 2nd March 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabbana Da Deej View Post
Found a review in German with a frequency response graph , looks flat to me with a little peak in the highs

Neumann NDH 20 im Test bei kopfhoerer.de
? Are we looking at the same thing ? because that curve in the link looks like the opposite of flat to me: overhyped bass and almost no highs...

Old 2nd March 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
? Are we looking at the same thing ? because that curve in the link looks like the opposite of flat to me: overhyped bass and almost no highs...

Yeah I’m genuinely baffled that anyone could look at that graph and take away anything close to “flat”. But also, why on earth is Neumann’s own President claiming these are “unusually flat”? The marketing seems geared towards these being flat reference headphones you can trust for mixing. Did they confuse these with something else?
Old 2nd March 2019
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldenfilms View Post
Yeah I’m genuinely baffled that anyone could look at that graph and take away anything close to “flat”. But also, why on earth is Neumann’s own President claiming these are “unusually flat”? The marketing seems geared towards these being flat reference headphones you can trust for mixing. Did they confuse these with something else?
The graph reminds me of a Fletcher Munson curve. Makes sense for mixing the low-end and low mids on HPs which are problematic in home studios. Would be quite a game changer if NDHs work on mixing kicks and bass reliably with a small trade-off in ultra highs according to this review.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #39
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I received the NDH 20 yesterday. For comparison I have Sennheiser HD650 headphones and KH310 Monitors. (Everything powered from a RME ADI 2 PRO FS)

Compared to the HD650 the NDH 20 definitely has more low extension, which in my opinion is also better defined. I don't feel the low end is overhyped. The Sennheiser on the other side sounds more open in the high end, but i don't really miss anything on the NDH 20. This might be down to the difference between open and closed headphones in general.

Ergonomics: The Sennheiser HD650 is more comfortable to wear. The ear cushions are a little too stiff on the NDH 20 for me.

Build quality is top notch on the NDH20, looks like it can take a beating.

Comparing the NDH 20 to the KH310: Mid and high range have a very similar character. Can't fully compare low end because my room has some deficits but they are in the same ballpark.

I can listen on the NDH 20 for longer periods without fatigue.

Will test it some more days and then decide if I keep it.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabbana Da Deej View Post
Why isn't Neumann showing the frequency response graph like they did with the kh120 and 310 ? , I doubt these are flat , alot of people have been complaining about the overhyped bass , if you are looking for a flat sounding pair of cans then get the Shure srh1840 , they are about light on the bass but translate well to speaker systems
Sorry, but you can‘t compare a closed hp with an open one.
It‘s very difficult to build a closed hp with a flat frequency response.
It‘s all about pressure and air.
I‘m working with an Audeze LCD-X. This is a fantastic open hp. When you compare this one to the closed LCD-XC, the closed hp sounds way too heavy in the bass.

Back to the NDH 20:
As said before, this hp don‘t reflect a well measured and flat speaker setup.
When your studio don‘t have a good treatment (no basstraps BUT a lot of foam), this hp could be the one

I really like what Neumann did in the past.
They never released a peace of ****.
But the NDH 20 don‘t impress me.
It‘s a comfortable and well build hp.
But I never will use it to make mixing and mastering decisions on it.
Old 14th March 2019
  #41
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I was very curious about the headphones
Last week I was able to compare the headphones with others.
In addition, I have made measurements with a dummy head. You can read about my impressions and download the data here:
menschen und methoden – … again something learned
Old 14th March 2019
  #42
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Is there an English language version available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IngoBingo View Post
I was very curious about the headphones
Last week I was able to compare the headphones with others.
In addition, I have made measurements with a dummy head. You can read about my impressions and download the data here:
menschen und methoden – … again something learned
Old 14th March 2019
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLMorgan View Post
Is there an English language version available?
Use google translate..
Old 14th March 2019
  #44
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This is what I did, so this single post about headphones is in english
Old 28th March 2019
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
FWIW, it was commonly known that the cable which shipped with the 600s contributed largely to that veiled sound. Cardas made a direct replacement which brought them to life. It was expensive, but it really did transform their sound in all the right ways.
Is that the cable that costs $285?

https://www.amazon.com/CARDAS-AUDIO-...r=1-5-fkmrnull
Old 28th March 2019
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass View Post
It's similar in look to what I had but not quite the same, and more than I paid, though not much more. It seems like silly money, but so does the price of the headphones it's being used for, and it made enough of a difference, to me, to justify the price. Less so when I was using a cheaper preamp. Much more so after I upgraded and the improvement in clarity become obvious.
Old 2nd April 2019
  #47
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There is a great review by Sonarworks with a bit different measurements:
Neumann NDH 20 Studio Headphone Review – Sonarworks
Old 2nd April 2019
  #48
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I see the majority here compare them to Sennheisers, but what about beyerdynamic DT1770? They are about the same price and personally I have always preferd beyerdynamic headphones.
Old 2nd April 2019
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egilc View Post
I see the majority here compare them to Sennheisers, but what about beyerdynamic DT1770? They are about the same price and personally I have always preferd beyerdynamic headphones.
Sennheiser owns the Neumann brand, thus the comparison to their headphones. Neumann has never had a headphone before, so it must be from established tech.
Old 28th April 2019
  #50
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Disagree with the common opinion about the build quality. My pair creaks a lot. Every time I put them on or slightly move my head. It is much more annoying than microphonics from tha cable. Tried to tighten or loosen the screws, that did not help. Sooo many friction points in the construction. If it don’t get better after some time in use, i want to get rid of this phones. When something so basic is annoying me, the sound quality does not matter.

Any ideas how to fix my problem?
Old 29th April 2019
  #51
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Mine don’t creak and btw, get a lot of abuse when surprisingly to me, a month back they became my travel headphones after a second pair of new Bose wireless stopped working after six months.

The Neumann’s are sturdy, fold, and fit in a pocket of my tiny Tom Bihn under-seat carry on.

I sometimes carry 650s but they don’t fold, go in my overhead bin bag and are a pain to retrieve and re-stow.

I am on 4-6 flights a week so let’s see how the Neumanns do long term but, zero squeaks, creaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorRomanovsky View Post
Disagree with the common opinion about the build quality. My pair creaks a lot. Every time I put them on or slightly move my head. It is much more annoying than microphonics from tha cable. Tried to tighten or loosen the screws, that did not help. Sooo many friction points in the construction. If it don’t get better after some time in use, i want to get rid of this phones. When something so basic is annoying me, the sound quality does not matter.

Any ideas how to fix my problem?
Old 29th April 2019
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLMorgan View Post
Mine don’t creak and btw, get a lot of abuse when surprisingly to me, a month back they became my travel headphones after a second pair of new Bose wireless stopped working after six months.

The Neumann’s are sturdy, fold, and fit in a pocket of my tiny Tom Bihn under-seat carry on.

I sometimes carry 650s but they don’t fold, go in my overhead bin bag and are a pain to retrieve and re-stow.

I am on 4-6 flights a week so let’s see how the Neumanns do long term but, zero squeaks, creaks.
I think the source of creaks are the places where ‘cup’ is connected to the ‘fork’ of the headband. I want to lubricate these places.

I took off the earpads, but don’t know how to disassemble the headphones further. The foam covering the speaker is glued to the cup. I don’t know how to get access to the creaking place.
Old 30th April 2019
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorRomanovsky View Post
I think the source of creaks are the places where ‘cup’ is connected to the ‘fork’ of the headband. I want to lubricate these places.

I took off the earpads, but don’t know how to disassemble the headphones further. The foam covering the speaker is glued to the cup. I don’t know how to get access to the creaking place.
they shouldn't creak. Return them for another pair.
Old 12th May 2019
  #54
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Plush's Avatar
I just found out that this Neumann headphone is made in China.
Old 12th May 2019
  #55
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I posted this Made in China information after looking at the box the headphones come in. I purchased them and expected them to be made in Ireland in the Sennheiser factory.

No--production has been moved to China for these premium headphones.
Old 30th May 2019
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egilc View Post
I see the majority here compare them to Sennheisers, but what about beyerdynamic DT1770? They are about the same price and personally I have always preferd beyerdynamic headphones.
I own the 1770’s and tried out the 20’s in the store today. Color me impressed! I’ve always found the 1770’s a bit bass heavy and scooped in the mids. The 20’s on the other hand have far clearer bass imo. It’s just there, and not more than there should be. The thing that impressed me most was the effortlessness, headroom of the cans and how clear and separated everything was.

Mind you, I only had a 10min listen to them but will go back with my 1770’s to AB them. But from how I feel now, I most likely will get them. First impressions usually speak the truth to me.
Old 30th May 2019
  #57
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Old 31st May 2019
  #58
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reduced highs

i have had the ndh20 for about a week... at first i was very impressed, they sounded full and not harsh... after a few sessions where i used them to monitor vocal tracking (me in the control room using the 20s, and the artist in the booth) i had a bit of a wakeup! When the artist came out of the booth, i took off the headphones and switched to the speaker setup (kh120a with sub, + sonarworks correction)... instantly i noticed alot of sibilance that was not present in the headphones at all! I wondered how it was possible... while recording the voice, it sounded very good straight off the mic (in the headphones)... but when listening on monitors i had alot of decisions to make about how to make the vocals work... this doesn't give me confidence that these headphones would be useful for mixing... perhaps useful as a second or third reference check, but not the "mixing" grade quality i was hoping for...

after figuring out that they were too smooth in the top end, i decided to run a sine wave sweep to see how "flat" they actually seemed to my ears... using the tone generator in studio one, i was able to hear way down deep (i was hearing something, probably overtones at 18hz) pretty smooth up to around 7k... then very instantly everything got really soft fom there up to about 16k (beyond 16k i didnt hear much)... i used fabfilter pro q to figure out how much the level dropped off at 7k and up... i ended up putting a very steep high shelf on and boosted about 6db.. once i found the exact best frequency placement for the shelf, i was able to sine sweep from low to high with a feeling of "flatness"...

im thinking the peaks and dips in headphone graphs are needed to smooth out the way we hear headphones due to the close proximity to our ears.. but the way the ndh20 just dropped off at 7k and all the way up beyond 7k is just weird to me... if anyone else can run the same sine sweep and confirm or deny would be great! im 99% certain that it isnt my hearing playing tricks on me
Old 1st June 2019
  #59
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Is it just from 7k up then that you hear something’s off? How’s everything below that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by collinsylex View Post
i have had the ndh20 for about a week... at first i was very impressed, they sounded full and not harsh... after a few sessions where i used them to monitor vocal tracking (me in the control room using the 20s, and the artist in the booth) i had a bit of a wakeup! When the artist came out of the booth, i took off the headphones and switched to the speaker setup (kh120a with sub, + sonarworks correction)... instantly i noticed alot of sibilance that was not present in the headphones at all! I wondered how it was possible... while recording the voice, it sounded very good straight off the mic (in the headphones)... but when listening on monitors i had alot of decisions to make about how to make the vocals work... this doesn't give me confidence that these headphones would be useful for mixing... perhaps useful as a second or third reference check, but not the "mixing" grade quality i was hoping for...

after figuring out that they were too smooth in the top end, i decided to run a sine wave sweep to see how "flat" they actually seemed to my ears... using the tone generator in studio one, i was able to hear way down deep (i was hearing something, probably overtones at 18hz) pretty smooth up to around 7k... then very instantly everything got really soft fom there up to about 16k (beyond 16k i didnt hear much)... i used fabfilter pro q to figure out how much the level dropped off at 7k and up... i ended up putting a very steep high shelf on and boosted about 6db.. once i found the exact best frequency placement for the shelf, i was able to sine sweep from low to high with a feeling of "flatness"...

im thinking the peaks and dips in headphone graphs are needed to smooth out the way we hear headphones due to the close proximity to our ears.. but the way the ndh20 just dropped off at 7k and all the way up beyond 7k is just weird to me... if anyone else can run the same sine sweep and confirm or deny would be great! im 99% certain that it isnt my hearing playing tricks on me
Old 1st June 2019
  #60
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with a test tone, i'm finding they sound pretty even from about 30hz up to around 6k (there are still some ups and downs but nothing drastic)... at around 6.5k the sine wav test tone sounds the loudest of any frequency across the spectrum... then at 7k it sounds the softest i heard across the usable spectrum... it stays rather soft up to about 10k where they actually do recover a bit of power thru to around 14k... i could barely hear anything at 16k but thats right around the limit of my high frequency hearing...

i never did any specific burn in on them, so perhaps they will change a little bit with time, hard to say at this point...

i did notice that on certain high frequencys one side would become dominant, im not sure what to make of that as of now... im gonna keep using them and see what happens
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