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MOTU announces Digital Performer 10
Old 16th March 2019
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo_x View Post
I don't get this one either, and I see it all the time.
I often run the same MIDI track to several instruments at the same time, even hardware, and blend them.
It's just not that hard to have separate tracks, and pretty useful.

Now there are plenty of other things I'd like to complain about DP, but this one I don't get.
I'm in your category, but I get it. If I'm not using Chunks, if I only use a few VSTi's for composing, then having an MIDI track and an instrument track for a virtual instrument seems like clutter coming from other DAWs.

Thing is I use Chunks a lot, I like having all the versions of a song in the same open project. You get to the stage where you're bouncing (or in DP's case freezing) VSTi tracks, you can do that in a copy of the current open sequence, so you always have the original to go back to etc. I just find this much more useful than saving versions of a Project in the sam project folder, which is how I end up working in Live, Reaper, Logic etc. You put your instruments in a V-Rack and it's zero time jumping between sequences, plus it's one MIDI track in the open Sequence.

The caveat is V-Racked instruments do not do track automation, but 99% of the time MIDI automation is good enough here.
Old 17th March 2019
  #62
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

If VI tracks had MIDI integrated, where would we put DP's MIDI plugins?
Old 17th March 2019
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
If VI tracks had MIDI integrated, where would we put DP's MIDI plugins?
Seems like a non-issue - either just let them be placed at the front of the channel (like Live and Cubase, IIRC), or limit them to non-instrument tracks (force the old way of working if you want to use them). The latter seems like it would require less work to implement.
Old 18th March 2019
  #64
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Thanks Paul; makes sense, mate.
Old 18th March 2019
  #65
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Oh!!! New DP!! I don’t actually use it, but I like to follow it all the same.
Old 18th March 2019
  #66
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
Not to be pedantic (though I am inevitably going to be), but you can do pretty much that in Live, if you so choose, with clever routing. You can route midi off any track to anyplace you like, with some caveats. It isn't quite as flexible in the same way as DP, but it is quite a bit more flexible than you seem to think. Multi-timbrel instruments, for instance, are actually a bit easier to setup (IMHO) than in DP, though actual MIDI routing is more point-to-point (if that makes sense).

You can route any MIDI information to any MIDI track, or to plugins on Audio tracks. Yes, it will require a lot of tracks, but less than DP's (outlier, though it does make sense once you get your head around it) implementation. With M-T instruments, you can even route the audio to the track containing the MIDI, which makes M-T instruments act as though they are on single tracks -which makes "visualizing" what's going on in the mixer a lot easier than what you'd initially think.

Actually, Live's implementation is very close to Cubase's, though you have to use an Instrument Track to actually hold the instrument, rather than having the "Rack" that is completely seperate. Cubase has the same limitations in terms of routing. Logic works like Live, too, pretty much.

DP is the outlier there, and that can be very, very flexible, but it really only comes up in large orchestral arrangements in my experience. There is something to be said for that, but it is a corner case - IMHO, the Cubase/Logic/Live way of working is more intuitive for most workflows outside scoring.

Oh, and editing multiple tracks has been in since 10, and is actually a bit similar to DP in implementation, as much as it can be given the differing MIDI routing methods.

Don't get me wrong, I like DP, and I use it (as a hobby, my main DAW's are Cubase, Live, and grudgingly PTHD/U) for scoring, largely because of how it handles multiple queues and multiple instruments across them, but don't sell Live short because you don't understand its flexibility. There is a lot more there than meets the initial eye.

Routing is not the issue. I take it as a given that all DAWs worth the name can flexibly route midi, even if it's more baroque or "point-to-point" as you put it in some (Live) than in others. It's clear just from the cool hybrid setups people achieve with Live that it can route midi wherever wanted.

The issue is editing. I said, perhaps not clearly enough:

Quote:
Suppose you want to route a given midi part to multiple instruments, and only to a subset of those instruments at certain points in the track. Let's say you want to be able to do this multiple times during the track, and be able to edit and alter the changes flexibly. You want them to be uniform some of the time, and have different midi content at other times. This is not uncommon when working with large orchestral templates with high instrument count and complexity. Scoring for picture: one of DP's strong suits.

My understanding is that in Live, you'd first need to drop an instrument into a track, then open your chain view, create your various instruments in that chain just to get multiple instruments to be driven by one midi clip in parallel. But now, how do you do the kind of complex editing I describe above? Lots of copy and pasting? ...

There is no limit to that kind of midi editing in DP. In DP, the layout is essentially an exploded view, all the time. You can see everything, you can edit everything with as much or little parallelism as you want. Do you see how this approach could be helpful with large instrument counts and high multitimbrality and interrelated voicing?
Attached at the bottom of this post is a screenshot of a relatively simple orchestral mockup of mine in DP.

Understand: the stuff in the lower pane is not representations or "clips" - it's full depth midi and automation data; you can edit every bit of it from this view.

If this were, say, four divisi string parts and I wanted to double just the bottom line from one of them in a contrabass string/clarinet or horn section (or a monosynth sub for that matter - no need to stay orchestral), then I can just option-drag a selected set of notes from one lane to another. I can edit seamlessly and nearly arbitrarily across parts in any way I like.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, in Live, this kind of elegance is impossible. Why?
Because there exists no combination satellite/microscope view like this. In Live, although you can choose to see multiple midi parts together, in order to actually edit across them at an individual note or cc event level, you have to go into the Note Editor.
Editing MIDI Notes and Velocities — Ableton Reference Manual Version 10
| Ableton


That means you're stuck copying and pasting from one track to another, as I said, to perform operations that are nearly gestural in DP.


As far as ease of setting up multitimbral instruments, if this is still representative of Live 10.1:

YouTube

then this is no cleaner than in DP, and you can perform exactly the same grouping and folding of the tracks shown at the end of the video, and in nearly the same way (i.e. using Track Folders and grouping), to tidy things up. I understand that DP is not your main DAW. You indicated that we shouldn't sell an app short due to lack of familiarity with its features, and I agree.

And that goes to the original post we're responding to, which implied that there's no quick way "just to run a vsti" in DP.

That's both 1) wrong, and 2) DP does even better than that: Hit cmd-ctrl-opt-I (for Instrument!) and DP pops up a dialog letting you specify how many VIs you want, how many midi tracks should be associated with each, and whether to put those in folders for you. And whether you want ketchup with that. Just want one-and-one? Press return.

TLDR - For a vsti ready-to-go in DP: One key command, hit return.

None of this is to argue that DP is the "best" DAW for everything or that there aren't things that Live does better. I'm going to add Live to my arsenal at the end of the month because of its always-on midi listening and its always-visible processing chains, and its flexible clip handling and integration of Max. All of that is way cool. Live is well adapted to the zoomed-in modes of production that characterize some modern genres. Live does not have a reputation for being a first-line scoring DAW, and there are real reasons for that, a big one of which I've described.

I'm pointing out, as you yourself have with great clarity, that there are excellent reasons for why DP is set up the way it is. You never know when you'll want maximum flexibility during a project. DP foregrounds that concept with a consistency that only some DAWs match. I view DP and Live as different and complementary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford
All that being said, I don't buy the refusal to implement single-track VI's, either, though I understand why they don't. It is off-putting to those coming from other DAWs, even those that used to work the same way (Logic <7 and old versions of Cubase did the same thing, albeit without the chunks feature). It is anachronistic, and that is not a good thing.
I agree that it can be disorienting to new users. So are many aspects of a new DAW to new users. It's flattering to DP that people think they should be able to walk in and use it with no consultation of the online manual.
(And as a matter of fact, they can: as of DP10 with the new Spotlight-like Run Command search feature, you can just hit shift-spacebar and type, i.e., "instrument," and up pops the command I just described above, complete with key shortcut. Don't believe me? Try it.)

As far as it being "anachronistic," I profoundly disagree. Certainly I understand where that idea comes from, and in the blunt sense of it being out of step with other DAWs (as though we're all going to wake up screaming because our VIs won't pretend that midi is "part" of them), it's true. But I think it's mistaken, because flexible mapping of the real features of a technology can never remain anachronistic for very long.

As we move into the MPE/MIDI 2.0 future, and it starts to become clear that there will be some very interesting uses for subsets of that much broader bandwidth of midi ccs in manipulating other instruments and even effects, we're going to more and more want midi on the top level, not bundled "into" VIs, explicit and on its own, with its own space on the screen. And MOTU will have been there the whole time, yelling to anyone who would listen that the earth is round.
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU announces Digital Performer 10-screenshot.jpg  

Last edited by biomuse; 19th March 2019 at 12:16 AM..
Old 19th March 2019
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
As far as ease of setting up multitimbral instruments, if this is still representative of Live 10.1:

YouTube

then this is no cleaner than in DP, and you can perform exactly the same grouping and folding of the tracks shown at the end of the video, and in nearly the same way (i.e. using Track Folders and grouping), to tidy things up. I understand that DP is not your main DAW. You indicated that we shouldn't sell an app short due to lack of familiarity with its features, and I agree.
It's actually easier in DP to do with Create Tracks. One pop up window, Select Omnisphere, select 8 MIDI tracks assigned to it in ascending order, select to put them in a fold hit enter, done. Just like in DP though you can save a setup as a clipping and drop it into any Live Set.

Quote:
None of this is to argue that DP is the "best" DAW for everything or that there aren't things that Live does better. I'm going to add Live to my arsenal at the end of the month because of its always-on midi listening and its always-visible processing chains, and its flexible clip handling and integration of Max. All of that is way cool. Live is well adapted to the zoomed-in modes of production that characterize some modern genres. Live does not have a reputation for being a first-line scoring DAW, and there are real reasons for that, a big one of which I've described.

I'm pointing out, as you yourself have with great clarity, that there are excellent reasons for why DP is set up the way it is. You never know when you'll want maximum flexibility during a project. DP foregrounds that concept with a consistency that only some DAWs match. I view DP and Live as different and complementary.
They are, unless MOTU just drop a ton of development time into Clips, Live will still be king there. I've used Live since 03 and DP for some crazy amount of time before that. live will always be one of the best DAWs for tweaking around in automation with clips, it's great for sound design in general.


Quote:
I agree that it can be disorienting to new users. So are many aspects of a new DAW to new users. It's flattering to DP that people think they should be able to walk in and use it with no consultation of the online manual.
(And as a matter of fact, they can: as of DP10 with the new Spotlight-like Run Command search feature, you can just hit shift-spacebar and type, i.e., "instrument," and up pops the command I just described above, complete with key shortcut. Don't believe me? Try it.)
Completely unfairly under hyped new feature. Probably my favorite besides VCA faders.


Quote:
As we move into the MPE/MIDI 2.0 future, and it starts to become clear that there will be some very interesting uses for subsets of that much broader bandwidth of midi ccs in manipulating other instruments and even effects, we're going to more and more want midi on the top level, not bundled "into" VIs, explicit and on its own, with its own space on the screen. And MOTU will have been there the whole time, yelling to anyone who would listen that the earth is round.
Hard to say, I have to admit when using Reaper, it's just kind of nice to have it all right there. MIDI in Reaper can have it's own channel so it's one track. Although again, just like how setting up a multi in DP is dead easy, with Create Tracks and Track Assignments setting up a MPE instrument is really not that big of a deal.

It's why to me although MPE support, VCA faders and more bounce options were my biggest hopes for DP10, I just want more bounce options.
Old 9th June 2019
  #68
Anyone using DP 10 with Apollo 8 Interface and a Mac?



Any caveats?

Last edited by Wizards Machine; 10th June 2019 at 02:12 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #69
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patshep's Avatar
i am considering upgrading from dp8, because i can't get used to logic at all... the thing that scares me is that with so little being said about this, i wonder if motu will be around much longer, pro tools is not something i'm interested in... so i guess i will just spend the money, although i wish there were more people talking about this
Old 1 week ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patshep View Post
i am considering upgrading from dp8, because i can't get used to logic at all... the thing that scares me is that with so little being said about this, i wonder if motu will be around much longer, pro tools is not something i'm interested in... so i guess i will just spend the money, although i wish there were more people talking about this
MOTU for whatever reason just can't seem to generate interest in DP among new users. Pretty much everyone I've ever met who uses DP is over 35, over 45 even. I think the new generation of musicians is getting into electronic music as heavily as they are guitar and traditional instrument based music which has led to the proliferation of DAWs like Live, FL Studio, Bitwig etc. This makes traditional DAWs and their adaption that much harder, and DP is in competition with Logic, Pro Tools, and Cubase, all extremely embedded (in the consciousness of the publics eyes) "frontrunners". I tend to get the impression that the younger generation of musicians are trend oriented, so DP won't catch on until it gets "buzz".. I see a bit of buzz around Studio One, but most other newer DAWs, or older ones with a smaller user base, I rarely hear much about.

All that said, the user base DP has is extremely loyal, MOTU is a frontrunner in the hardware market, and I don't see DP going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think there's any worries of it disappearing.
Old 1 week ago
  #71
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

I agree 100%; well-said, mate.

The youngsters are so trend-driven that whenever I say I use DP they've no idea what I'm talking about.
Old 1 week ago
  #72
dix
Gear Nut
Point taken re DP's mature user-base. It's not yet lighting any fires in clip based, song/beat making, but I think DP's scoring-to-picture capabilities keeps it in the conversation.

I've never tried Cubase, but I've worked in PT and Logic for scoring and prefer DP by a wide margin. A great deal of DP's feature set is dedicated to film scoring. And I'm sure people have, but I've never heard of anyone doing feature film work in Live (not sure about Bitwig etc). And I don't see Ableton even really trying to compete in that area.
Old 1 week ago
  #73
Everyone seems to have some kind of crystal ball about how many people use DP which is pretty amazing. If any company will drop there DAW I would put my money on Apple Logic. Apple has dropped many software lines over the years which has been painful for me. Motu certainly has not and they have hardware that uses the software so its a whole image and moving forward as innovators. DP was one of the first DAWs and the company is run by people who are passionate about digital recording and seem very successful. Apple corporation has become somewhat of a wild cannon without thoughtful focus and ProTools is trying to stay alive financially.
Old 1 week ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Everyone seems to have some kind of crystal ball about how many people use DP which is pretty amazing. If any company will drop there DAW I would put my money on Apple Logic. Apple has dropped many software lines over the years which has been painful for me. Motu certainly has not and they have hardware that uses the software so its a whole image and moving forward as innovators. DP was one of the first DAWs and the company is run by people who are passionate about digital recording and seem very successful. Apple corporation has become somewhat of a wild cannon without thoughtful focus and ProTools is trying to stay alive financially.
I hear you, but I think in terms of Apple, I don't think Logic is going away anytime soon, they push Logic and FCP when you buy any Pro line computer.

I mean there's a lot of reasons to think that the user base for DP isn't near the Logic, PT, Cubase or Live level. Search metrics, site metrics, and general user base. I don't know a studio here in seattle that doesn't use Pro Tools, and I certainly hear Logic and Live dropped way more than any other DAW when talking to electronic musicians of any kind. There's literally only one dedicated forum for DP, besides this subforum I can't think of any other one that gets any traffic.

None of that says anything about the value of DP, or the dedication of MOTU to DP, I think it's obvious they're dedicated. IMO I wish they spent a little more on it though, if Clips could compare to what Bitwig and Live offer, then couple that with at least one good partnership with a control surface hardware manufacturer (or even better their own), then they could make some headway into the younger market.

MOTU has dropped Uinsyn, MX4 and the UVI packages they sold along with Machfive 3 in the last couple years. So it's fair to say they drop as much as Apple and almost as much as NI did.
Old 1 week ago
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
I hear you, but I think in terms of Apple, I don't think Logic is going away anytime soon, they push Logic and FCP when you buy any Pro line computer.

I mean there's a lot of reasons to think that the user base for DP isn't near the Logic, PT, Cubase or Live level. Search metrics, site metrics, and general user base. I don't know a studio here in seattle that doesn't use Pro Tools, and I certainly hear Logic and Live dropped way more than any other DAW when talking to electronic musicians of any kind. There's literally only one dedicated forum for DP, besides this subforum I can't think of any other one that gets any traffic.

None of that says anything about the value of DP, or the dedication of MOTU to DP, I think it's obvious they're dedicated. IMO I wish they spent a little more on it though, if Clips could compare to what Bitwig and Live offer, then couple that with at least one good partnership with a control surface hardware manufacturer (or even better their own), then they could make some headway into the younger market.

MOTU has dropped Uinsyn, MX4 and the UVI packages they sold along with Machfive 3 in the last couple years. So it's fair to say they drop as much as Apple and almost as much as NI did.
They still sell all the things you mentioned except for some UVI packages which are still available through other vendors. Unisyn was a dead end though which did piss me off - i liked that package. MachFive (still available and supported) which I own was made by UVI and was replaced by Falcon which I also purchased so yes that was kind of the end but its still supported and sold.

My point is that with all the estimates on sales its not that important to Motu as they are big players in hardware and software both, they are not publicly traded as well which is a big plus in my book. I think we are both agreeing basically and nit picking along the way The speculation about the end of DP seems pretty unfounded. That program is what started it all for them and they keep adding new features, many of which I do not need but that is a whole other subject. Investing in ZTXpro was no small cost for them and shows dedication to DP's development and gives confidence they are not going anywhere (also it does rock).

Last edited by AudioSoundzz; 1 week ago at 03:28 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Investing in ZTXpro was no small cost for them and shows dedication to DP's development and gives confidence they are not going anywhere (also it does rock).
So does adding in a Clip Window, that's a huge investment in time and energy. It needs some improvements for sure, but they assured me an update will give the needed improvements, like writing to the timeline etc.

I'm guessing Catalina is holding the update back. At this point I'm not expecting it until NAMM..
Old 1 week ago
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
So does adding in a Clip Window, that's a huge investment in time and energy. It needs some improvements for sure, but they assured me an update will give the needed improvements, like writing to the timeline etc.

I'm guessing Catalina is holding the update back. At this point I'm not expecting it until NAMM..
I am talking about the cost to license the technology of ZTXpro which is not free to MOTU.
Old 1 week ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
I am talking about the cost to license the technology of ZTXpro which is not free to MOTU.
Yeah, but coding whole new areas of the software is initially going to be more expensive, they really aren’t mutually exclusive points, MOTU is investing in DP research and development wise, as well as licensing technology for DP.
Old 1 day ago
  #79
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You would think that DP would be stealing a lot of Pro Tools users, based on price alone.... I use Ableton, and love it, but can't imagine mixing in it...
I use Logic also, but just hate the layout
Old 1 day ago
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
... so DP won't catch on until it gets "buzz"...

All that said, the user base DP has is extremely loyal....

Well, one could argue that DP will never generate "buzz" if all they do is cater to their extremely loyal user base.

It's business 101 - gaining new customers is more important than customer retention, IF the end goal is growth. If you are happy where you are at, then by all means focus on retention.

DP 10's foray into "clips" is an attempt to generate "buzz". Jury is still out on that one.

In my humble opinion, what holds DP back from wider adoption (at this point) isn't lack of features, or 'buzz' --- but rather the decrepit code base, and the slow-as-molasses deployment of updates.

Someone needs to go to MOTU and teach them about 'trends' in software development, not 'trends' in DAW-land. It's time for MOTU to start integrating a continuous pipeline when it comes to development and rolling out updates.

I get an email every two weeks or so from Ableton's beta program. They are constantly patching things and Ableton updates AUTOMATICALLY in the BG.

A strong, modern, test-driven-dev pipeline makes this kind of thing possible. I believe MOTU underfunds development of DP.

And that is why nobody uses it.
Old 1 day ago
  #81
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I don't disagree with your premise that DP code could use a good flush to be more efficient. But - assuming the DAW performs the basic functions I need in some reasonably efficient and relatively logical way with decent ease of use, my primary requirement for the program is DON'T CRASH WHILE I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF A PROJECT!!
DP has always been pretty good about that. I know auto-save is a lifesaver in those situations but your workflow is wrecked and my easily derailed train of thought is often a smoking pile of debris. Ableton seems to walk a finer line on the bug fix/added feature thing and NEEDS more frequent updates.
DP is relatively inefficient with CPU (in comparison to Reaper, which has ended up being my usual weapon of choice since my switch) but has a lot of virtues. I think they're not the shiny new thing that garners attention. MOTU could probably use a new publicist to drive interest but the thing still does the job pretty well.

As always, YMMV.

Last edited by burp182; 23 hours ago at 07:38 AM..
Old 1 day ago
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Mastering View Post
Well, one could argue that DP will never generate "buzz" if all they do is cater to their extremely loyal user base.

It's business 101 - gaining new customers is more important than customer retention, IF the end goal is growth. If you are happy where you are at, then by all means focus on retention.
Man, I freaking hate this fact, too many parts of every DAW out there are partially developed because it's a revamp of an old feature, doesn't drive new customers in like a new amp sim or synth or...

Quote:
DP 10's foray into "clips" is an attempt to generate "buzz". Jury is still out on that one.
This one IMO depends on their willingness to partner with the likes of Novation, Akai etc. on clip launching haptic feedback on pads. I don't see any younger people getting too excited about having to remember which pad has the bassline on it when it's bright blue in Live and Bitwig on Push, Launchpad, APC40's etc.
Quote:
In my humble opinion, what holds DP back from wider adoption (at this point) isn't lack of features, or 'buzz' --- but rather the decrepit code base, and the slow-as-molasses deployment of updates.

Someone needs to go to MOTU and teach them about 'trends' in software development, not 'trends' in DAW-land. It's time for MOTU to start integrating a continuous pipeline when it comes to development and rolling out updates.

I get an email every two weeks or so from Ableton's beta program. They are constantly patching things and Ableton updates AUTOMATICALLY in the BG.

A strong, modern, test-driven-dev pipeline makes this kind of thing possible.
I don't disagree, Live, Reaper, and the like are doing a good job with that lately. But don't forget Ableton did next to nothing but fix bugs for about 5 years between 8 and 9. Bitwig made big promises they've only partially kept in terms of their "modular environment for everything" etc. It's not all roses, and Ableton only went this route after releasing a huge bug ridden mess in 8.



Quote:
I believe MOTU underfunds development of DP.

And that is why nobody uses it.
I don't, I think it's obvious that the same feast or famine thing happens with DP that happens with Logic. Apple has had periods where everyone and their mother is complaining about how Apple is abandoning Logic etc. because their DSP and DAW team tend to also work on other things at Apple. Same with MOTU and DP, you see development of their audio interface hardware go up when you see a slow down in DP updates usually.

What I'm really curious about is what MOTU does with an update coming up here? Are we going to get massive improvements or incremental? They've delivered both over the years.


IMO the reason DP is in the bottom of the top ten DAWs isn't because it's not adding new features, it's because it's alien to most people. No object oriented MIDI, and virtual instruments always needing a separate MIDI track just seems wrong to people who come from other DAWs that don't have Chunks. Once you get used to the way DP works neither of these things bother you in the least, but in my experience using Logic, Reaper and Live I rarely used markers, but in DP you pretty much want to use them all the time. They're way more useful in DP than those other DAWs, and for good reason, they more or less take the place of object oriented MIDI.
Old 17 hours ago
  #83
Logic has Apple, one of the biggest companies in the world behind it. Of course it will get a lot of public attention. It's also very low priced. Unfortunately that software looks like amateur world and has a terrible work flow although some of its rendering options DP needs to adopt. ProTools has the most to lose with its high corporate overhead and new highest priced forced rental structure and hardware dictatorship. Everyone else will simply slowly eat up ProTools as people jump ship.
Old 15 hours ago
  #84
Lives for gear
I really like DP. Of all the DAW's I've ever used, it has made me the most money over time (haha)

I started using it with version 3, and so am well-accustomed to the workflow. But even as a long-time user, I don't recommend DP to youngsters that approach me asking me 'what DAW to use"....I usually point them towards Studio One, or Reaper, or if they can afford it, Live.

It's no surprise that a company like Ableton, whose only foray into hardware is a device that controls their software, is now running laps around MOTU in terms of adoption. You get out of software development what you put in. DP has felt like an afterthought for MOTU for a decade now. And not for good reason, I imagine their hardware line makes a up larger part of their revenue.

I don't think this ends well for DP users...
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