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Waves introduces CLA MixHub Plugin
Old 7th May 2019
  #661
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Mikey MTC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
All i'm saying is in this day and age, why can't major software developers just nail it every time? It seems ludicrous to me.
I think many of them will say they have nailed it!
Every time Slate posts a A/B/C test, statistically no one can tell which 1176 or Distressor is the analog one.

And that's even though 90% of them go into the test with a preset mentality of ... "well B is a little thicker and warmer so that must be the analog."

I'm with smackmastering. We should be less concerned about a perfect match and more concerned with 'does it have the flavour.'
Old 8th May 2019
  #662
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
I'm with smackmastering. We should be less concerned about a perfect match and more concerned with 'does it have the flavour.'
If a perfect match were my concern i'd be working on an analog console. Obviously none of the above mentioned AEs are too concerned over perfect matches, except maybe CLA who still has a console. But maybe even he's not too concerned - but prefers real faders/knobs and his accustomed work flow to a screen and a keyboard. I've been on Protools ever since they went 24 bit. Still have racks of outboard which aren't for sale (yet). Maybe i'm a dumbass, but i do look forward to the day when i can sell all that gear. Have several Pultecs. Not one sounds like the other but they all sound great. Haven't found a plugin that sounds as good as any one of them, so they stay in the rack. Do i use plugin Pultecs? When i don't have the real ones, yeah, or do the boost/dip thing any other way (liking Equilibrium these days) but it ain't a Pultec. "Different" doesn't bother me at all. "Worse" does. Can you get from A to B in a Pinto? Yes. Would you rather go in an Aston Martin? Hello.

No one channel is identical to any other channel on any given analog console, no one Pultec sounds like any other Pultec but they all keep a certain standard. I've found some plugins that we actually use indistinctly with the hardware, they're that close. But some hardware, we don't substitute with plugins unless the hardware is broken. Could anyone really tell in a mix if we used the AMS plug or box? Doubt it, but we still use the box whenever we can because we hear a clear difference that we feel justifies keeping it. So more than 'different', it's a matter of 'not as good'. Is the difference huge? No. Enough for my partner to keep both of his EMT 250s? Yes. Would i use a plugin EMT since i don't have the real deal? Why not? That's not the point.

Again the point is, i can't believe that in this day and age, some plugs aren't enough for us to sell the boxes. That's all i'm saying. Love my Protools, plugs and all, haven't been on an analog console for decades but we still use some hardware boxes and a real B3. Go figure.

Last edited by raal; 9th May 2019 at 08:46 AM..
Old 8th May 2019
  #663
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Mikey MTC's Avatar
 

It's interesting language we're all using here, because on the one hand you say, "If a perfect match were my concern i'd be working on an analog console"

But then in the same discussion you say, "Have several Pultecs. Not one sounds like the other but they all sound great." If I was being a wise-ass I'd say then Pultec 1 is not a perfect match to Pultec 2. (Of course that's part of the magic too!)

You also say "No one channel is identical to any other channel on any given analog console" which is of course true. I don't think we actually have views that are too opposing here. But it's curious commenting that a plugin isn't a perfect match for something when even the ANALOG twin of that thing isn't a perfect match!
Old 8th May 2019
  #664
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
It's interesting language we're all using here, because on the one hand you say, "If a perfect match were my concern i'd be working on an analog console"

But then in the same discussion you say, "Have several Pultecs. Not one sounds like the other but they all sound great." If I was being a wise-ass I'd say then Pultec 1 is not a perfect match to Pultec 2. (Of course that's part of the magic too!)

You also say "No one channel is identical to any other channel on any given analog console" which is of course true. I don't think we actually have views that are too opposing here. But it's curious commenting that a plugin isn't a perfect match for something when even the ANALOG twin of that thing isn't a perfect match!
I absolutely agree with RAAL.
and you perfectly understand what he mean. your comments to this are irrelevant..your position is also used for marketing (it becomes impossible to say what is what, because it is different etc...or, 1)difference -> 2) tastes are different -> 3) does not make sense to discuss which is better, because -> 1)difference -> etc... that's a typical algorithm, which I'm talking about) and I hear this everywhere from prophet to 1176 emulations) I wonder how long it will be in fashion
hope I explained clearly
Old 8th May 2019
  #665
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Mikey MTC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by killme View Post
your position is also used for marketing
I appreciate that English is not your first language, but using the word "marketing" like this implies I'm selling something relevant to this discussion and stand to make money.
This is not the case.
Old 8th May 2019
  #666
Lives for gear
I DO think it’s a common marketing trick of misdirection to respond to people saying ‘this doesn’t sound like a $&@ to me” with “well that’s because all $&@‘s sound different”
That’s silly to some degree.

Not that I’m accusing anyone here of that.
But it’s a common marketing tactic.

OTOH if you sell a plug in or box as “a Neve” like item, it should be fair to compare it to the actual Neve.

In that regard I think Scheps was smart to make the Omni Channel not hardware brand name specific.
You just like what it does on a given thing or you don’t.

Having said all that though, I think you pretty much get what you would expect in the CLA MixHib in that it has the parameters and choices of the SSL and sounds okay.
But it’s real selling point is in its workflow and being able to see and fiddle 8 eqs at a time while seeing them all in relation to each other.
And I expect to see that idea in more Waves stuff
Old 9th May 2019
  #667
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
It's interesting language we're all using here, because on the one hand you say, "If a perfect match were my concern i'd be working on an analog console"

But then in the same discussion you say, "Have several Pultecs. Not one sounds like the other but they all sound great." If I was being a wise-ass I'd say then Pultec 1 is not a perfect match to Pultec 2. (Of course that's part of the magic too!)
Sorry if i wasn't clear. The point i was trying to make was that i'm not bothered by Pultecs, LA2s, or 1176s all sounding different, precisely because i've never looked for a perfect match. But anything in the racks has to live up to a certain standard. If not it gets sold. Kinda like having a Thoroughbred, an Appaloosa and a Quarter Horse in the barn. They're not the same, but all nice to ride. The Burro in the back will get me to the town store, but i only ride that one when the other three aren't available. Not the end of the world, but i'd take the other three over the burro any day of the week.

Quote:
You also say "No one channel is identical to any other channel on any given analog console" which is of course true. I don't think we actually have views that are too opposing here. But it's curious commenting that a plugin isn't a perfect match for something when even the ANALOG twin of that thing isn't a perfect match!
Yes again. It doesn't have to be a perfect match, but it does have to be on par. e.g. one Pultec doesn't have to sound exactly like the next one, but each Pultec has to sound better subjectively, than any Pultec emulation i've heard. If a plug is "good enough for rock n' roll" vs. the Zener, AMS or Anamod ATS-1, even though it may sound a bit different, the box gets sold and we use the plug. Have sold some hardware, don't get me wrong. Matter of fact i just sold one of the three mentioned above. Example: Some people sold their 480Ls after the UAD plug came out. I wanted to as well, but after comparing i didn't. Did the plug sound good? Hell yes. Did it sound as wide, present and warm (all subjective) as the box? Not to us, so the box stayed. At the end of a mix, will anyone know if the tom verb was a plug or box? Doubt it.

I hope this at least clears up what i was trying trying to say and i agree, we're basically discussing semantics. What you call a vibe, i call a certain standard. I'm pretty sure we can agree with, both vibes and certain standards give some serious mojo.

Last edited by raal; 9th May 2019 at 08:31 PM..
Old 9th May 2019
  #668
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
The Burro in the back will get me to the town store...
Sorry, but some of my best days were spent right there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
the Zener, AMS or Anamod ATS-1 ... Matter of fact i just sold one the three i just mentioned above.
My money is on the Anamod!

Remember how Earth-shatteringly cool they were when they came out?

Well said your last few posts, raal. Glad your ears and brain are still sharp as hell!

<3
Old 9th May 2019
  #669
Gear Addict
 
smackmastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post

Having said all that though, I think you pretty much get what you would expect in the CLA MixHib in that it has the parameters and choices of the SSL and sounds okay.
But it’s real selling point is in its workflow and being able to see and fiddle 8 eqs at a time while seeing them all in relation to each other.
And I expect to see that idea in more Waves stuff
I couldn't agree more. The workflow is where it really shines!
Old 9th May 2019
  #670
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
My money is on the Anamod!
Bingo! It is a great box though. And great hearing from you Realtugs!

Last edited by raal; 10th May 2019 at 03:23 AM..
Old 10th May 2019
  #671
Gear Addict
 

Well i'm just dreaming and waiting on the same mix hub concept aplyed to Neve and API.C'mon Waves don't be late!!
Old 10th May 2019
  #672
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smackmastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackers View Post
Well i'm just dreaming and waiting on the same mix hub concept aplyed to Neve and API.C'mon Waves don't be late!!
I wouldn't be shocked if the next MixHub plugin is Abbey Road MixHub. A emulation of the Neve 88RS in Studio 2. Add that to the Abbey Road Collection

.
Old 10th May 2019
  #673
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackmastering View Post
I wouldn't be shocked if the next MixHub plugin is Abbey Road MixHub. A emulation of the Neve 88RS in Studio 2. Add that to the Abbey Road Collection

.
Cool man!! Yeahhhh
Old 12th May 2019
  #674
Gear Maniac
 

I’m tempted to pick this one up for 69, but I’m not sure what the value is? Is the idea of a plugin like this workflow improvements? I have lots of great plugs from FabFilter, PA, and Soundtoys so I can already put together a great chain on each channel with those plugs if I want. What is the Benefit of a channel strip style plug outside ease of use?
Old 12th May 2019
  #675
Gear Addict
 
smackmastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomotomoto View Post
I’m tempted to pick this one up for 69, but I’m not sure what the value is? Is the idea of a plugin like this workflow improvements? I have lots of great plugs from FabFilter, PA, and Soundtoys so I can already put together a great chain on each channel with those plugs if I want. What is the Benefit of a channel strip style plug outside ease of use?
The workflow is the biggest selling point. The plugin feels like mixing on a console if you use it to its fullest potential. You also get a good 1176 blue strip compressor emulation.

Nothing earth shattering with the SSL emulation. It sounds as good as the current modern batch of SSL 4K emulations.

The major downside is the CPU consumption. Waves did release a Lite version that I've found usable and does lower the CPU hit. But the other batch of modern SSL 4K emulations are more CPU efficient.

For me the workflow makes it up for all of the downsides. It feels and sounds right to me. If you want that console workflow then this is perfect. However, it that's not important to you then I don't know if you'd like it.

The other SSL 4K emulations are just as good as CLA MixHub. Even the original Waves SSL E channel is in the same sonic ballpark as CLA MixHub. The biggest change here is workflow.

You should try the demo and test it yourself. See if you like the workflow and make sure the CPU isn't a deal breaker.
Old 12th May 2019
  #676
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackmastering View Post
The other SSL 4K emulations are just as good as CLA MixHub. Even the original Waves SSL E channel is in the same sonic ballpark as CLA MixHub. The biggest change here is workflow.

You should try the demo and test it yourself. See if you like the workflow and make sure the CPU isn't a deal breaker.
What the stock Waves SSL plug doesn't have is input gain, which has a lot to do with the character of the sound. This and workflow, i think give MixHub the edge. The demo is free. Try it out.

Last edited by raal; 13th May 2019 at 05:26 AM..
Old 13th May 2019
  #677
Gear Maniac
 

Theres a new waves update:

New "Lite" component added – uses up to 30% less CPU
Over 250 presets added from the world's top mixing engineers
Channel View and Bucket View can be used simultaneously in separate windows
Add an additional CLA MixHub module (EQ, Input, Dynamics) as an extra plugin in the insert slot
Old 13th May 2019
  #678
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What is missing in the "lite" version?

Thanks
Old 13th May 2019
  #679
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackmastering View Post
The workflow is the biggest selling point. The plugin feels like mixing on a console if you use it to its fullest potential. You also get a good 1176 blue strip compressor emulation.

Nothing earth shattering with the SSL emulation. It sounds as good as the current modern batch of SSL 4K emulations.

The major downside is the CPU consumption. Waves did release a Lite version that I've found usable and does lower the CPU hit. But the other batch of modern SSL 4K emulations are more CPU efficient.

For me the workflow makes it up for all of the downsides. It feels and sounds right to me. If you want that console workflow then this is perfect. However, it that's not important to you then I don't know if you'd like it.

The other SSL 4K emulations are just as good as CLA MixHub. Even the original Waves SSL E channel is in the same sonic ballpark as CLA MixHub. The biggest change here is workflow.

You should try the demo and test it yourself. See if you like the workflow and make sure the CPU isn't a deal breaker.
Ok that makes sense. Thank you.
Old 14th May 2019
  #680
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lydfar View Post
What is missing in the "lite" version?

Thanks
Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68mtN5WYLiM
Old 4 weeks ago
  #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackers View Post
Don't believe in that!There is no comparison but i don't hear plastic on most of then.
The tests are always based on faulty sense of logic. No two analogue desks sound alike, no two channel strips in a desk sound alike. This is due to a number or reasons, but even the manufacturers of the actual hardware with tell you this.

Unless you have the exact same desk that was modelled you will never be able to draw a fair comparison.

Well I guess CLA would be in the best position to do all the testing and comparing. Perhaps people can give him a call, rent out is facilities and run their comparison tests there!! Or you can just take the word of one of the most anti digital, anti plugin people out there. CLA himself.

Well to be fair I think Steve Albini holds that title. To such an extreme that it dos him discredit.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #682
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Is CLA an anti plugin guy? He is marketing lots of plugins from both Waves and Slade: "now you can sound like ME!!" - and: mixing coarse, analog vs. Digital = no difference. Two weeks later in an YT interview, he says the total opposite... I guess he's mostly talking about the convenience in having real faders and knobs. But it's not always clear what he means...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #683
I think CLA is being honest there. CLA is "anti plug-in guy" when it comes to actual mixing. For mix prep he uses plug-ins all the way. But if you want your ITB mix to sound like his mixes, he "designs" plug-ins for that. My personal opinion is that he has done a good job with his plug-ins too. His CLA mixbus(Not MixHub) signature plug-in for instance, has, indeed, that "CLA flavour" to it. For all that, I don't think CLA is just marketing some BS.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #684
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Alvarez View Post
I think CLA is being honest there. CLA is "anti plug-in guy" when it comes to actual mixing. For mix prep he uses plug-ins all the way. But if you want your ITB mix to sound like his mixes, he "designs" plug-ins for that. My personal opinion is that he has done a good job with his plug-ins too. His CLA mixbus(Not MixHub) signature plug-in for instance, has, indeed, that "CLA flavour" to it. For all that, I don't think CLA is just marketing some BS.
The marketing can be a little over the top, but I think he's just leaving all that too Waves and Slate... He's just really enthusiastic and love what he is doing. It shows in every video he is in. I actually agree, with him being an analog guy first and most, and sees plugins as useful tools in the toolbox. Probably doesn't think too much about it, if it sounds good etc.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #685
Gear Addict
 

If i had the money to have all analog gear like CLA i would never insert a plugin.So i will keep ITP and happy with CLA Mix Hub - UAD plugins - Mc dsp - Arouser - Ik - Sonnox - Brainworks - Fab Filter - Satson.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortega67 View Post
For the channel strip thing I much prefer the scheps omni channel. No contest IMHO.
I do actually prefer the Omni myself. Though, I quite like the sounds of the E at times, it’s really the Buckets workflow that I found so powerful in MixHub. If only it came to the Omni.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #687
Gear Maniac
After a while I came back to Mixhub.

But for now I'm only using it as a simple channelstrip (not even touching that bucket stuff), I find I can navigate between channel strips far easier the old fashioned way.

It does somehow sound better than your regular plugin.

I remember CLA said in one of his interviews, don't remember exact words, but basically something about SSL being able to take out all the problems with the sound with just having audio passed through it. It's like it smooths it out somehow or something I don't know.

I kind of feel the same way.

I do use Lite version only for now except for vocals which get the full (waiting for that magical 5Ghz Ryzen3), but having it in stereo on all tracks and up to 15-20 instances of it seems to load CPU a lot less, on my ancient i5-4690 I'm yet to crest 70% in VST meter (Cubase 10 64-bit). Basically I can run as many instances as I need for my songs and not crash the system, so it's all good.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #688
Here for the gear
 

Nice idea but it freezes or crashes every day

Love the idea of Mixhub, only had it a week and every session I run into one of two issues.

1. It freezes in Bucket view
2. It crashes on loading

A new install or repair will fix it for a little while.... then same issue. I've tried it in different hosts to replicate the issue or isolate it to a specific DAW. It's the Mix Hub by all indications :(

I have emailed Waves with feedback and a request for help, see how that goes...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #689
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by kp4000 View Post
Love the idea of Mixhub, only had it a week and every session I run into one of two issues.

1. It freezes in Bucket view
2. It crashes on loading

A new install or repair will fix it for a little while.... then same issue. I've tried it in different hosts to replicate the issue or isolate it to a specific DAW. It's the Mix Hub by all indications :(

I have emailed Waves with feedback and a request for help, see how that goes...
Shouldn't be. There's something in your windows that doesn't get along with it, some missing or corrupt accessory software like, I don't know, c++ Redistributable or audio card driver any of that stuff that plugins frequently require. Or Asio driver. Could be anything. It's highly doubtful that Mixhub is broken although I hope Waves will be able to help you out.

The more I use it the more I like it. Can only afford Lite version for now, but I noticed I almost never feel the need to add anything before or after Mixhub on my tracks. Before I used to have 5-6 plugins easily trying to achieve the same sound. This somehow does it better and easier.

The downside is that, well, I max out my ASIO driver on pretty much all songs before I can add much else, so it's just Lite 100% and only basic additional plugins for now.

Never planned on upgrading my PC, but... July 7th. Ryzen 3900x. Just for Mixhub.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #690
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuieve View Post
Shouldn't be. There's something in your windows that doesn't get along with it, some missing or corrupt accessory software like, I don't know, c++ Redistributable or audio card driver any of that stuff that plugins frequently require. Or Asio driver. Could be anything. It's highly doubtful that Mixhub is broken although I hope Waves will be able to help you out.

The more I use it the more I like it. Can only afford Lite version for now, but I noticed I almost never feel the need to add anything before or after Mixhub on my tracks. Before I used to have 5-6 plugins easily trying to achieve the same sound. This somehow does it better and easier.

The downside is that, well, I max out my ASIO driver on pretty much all songs before I can add much else, so it's just Lite 100% and only basic additional plugins for now.

Never planned on upgrading my PC, but... July 7th. Ryzen 3900x. Just for Mixhub.
Me too,thanx to Mix Hub i'm planning to build a new pc.This thing really shines and excites me!
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