The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Slate Announces The RAVEN MTZ Large Format Multi-Touch Production Console Control Surfaces
Old 13th February 2019
  #91
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actualsizeaudio View Post
How does the speed compare to the original non PCAP MTX V1?
When I asked Jamey that question he told me that the response felt the same, just a little smaller in size.
Old 13th February 2019
  #92
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Actualsizeaudio View Post
How does the speed compare to the original non PCAP MTX V1?
The speed is the same on the MTX and MTZ. I didn't notice any difference in functionality, just that me sleeve doesn't trigger touch any more on the MTZ.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #93
Here for the gear
 

My Avid C24 has been in the shop 2 times now in 8 years, and I'm getting tired of this! It costs a lot to ship the thing, and this time it looks like it's just going to be too expensive to repair, also considering that I may not be able to use it with the latest Pro Tools in the near future. For such a pretty penny, I can't understand why it has had issues(component design flaws maybe?), especially when I take a lot of care with my equipment. At the same price point, I feel that there just isn't any hardware control surface/mic pre/mixer out there that can replace the C24 functionality. The S3 just isn't enough, and the S6 is way over the top in price(insert SSL/Neve automated consoles here too)! I think the next phase in mixing is connecting directly with the user interface. Everything in my studio is on the computer screen. Sure I have a patch bay and now a hardware mixer for mic Pre's(C24 in the shop still), but all my VI's, plug ins mixing can all be done on the computer. So why not go right to the source? I am a little concerned with the lack of tactile feedback, but the main reason I went with the C24 was to avoid mouse and keyboard for editing, mixing, etc. I think the Raven MTZ is the future, and based on my hardware history with Avid, I can't see myself buying another control surface from Avid ever again.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #94
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Eventhough Pro Tools doesn’t natively support touch, it lends itself surprisingly well for editing with touch. The Raven software will help even more with that (as does DTouch for me).

The lack of tactile feedback for some is hard to overcome, but I think for most people, what you gain with a touch screen far outweighs what you loose in tactile response. Plus, no one’s forcing you to choose between them.
You can combine faderpacks with a touch screen.
Personally I think faderpacks are rather expensive for what they do, certainly if you want quality, and since I don’t even use faders in the DAW that much, I haven’t found a controller that I’d even consider moving my touchscreen a little back for.
It all depends on your preferences, but I don’t think there’s a better bang for buck controller than a 27” touch screen. I don’t feel the immediate need for a larger one myself, but I haven’t tried one either.
The customisability of a touch system like Raven or DTouch is great and after a title cuddling with it and the angle, ergonomics of your workspace, I think it’s very possible you’ll lose interest in hardware controllers altogether, like I have.
Don’t get me wrong, touch screens aren’t perfect and they have drawbacks, but so do hardware controllers and to me, touch screens are just a much more useful and intuitive way to control a DAW.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #95
Lives for gear
 
brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iplaydat View Post
I think the next phase in mixing is connecting directly with the user interface.
Bingo. Nailed it. On the head.

I figured that out avoided getting a touchscreen set up, in favor of a 24 fader Mackie MCU, because I thought I _HAD_ to have a hardware tactile experience.

But unlike a real console and tape machine, which are _THE_ "interface", a hardware controller is a "middle man" interface to the actual DAW... and you have to get used to translating the middle man.

And those hardware controllers break.

So, I sold it and set up a 42" touchscreen using DTouch.

But, whether you use Raven or DTouch, they give you a full interface to the DAW itself, and a large touchscreen is an impressive centerpiece to your studio, similar to a console. And with outboard gear and good converters, you can have all the analog warmth you want.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #96
I've been doing a bottom to top renovation of my new studio. One of the things I was greatly questioning was retiring my Tonelux V-Rack console and diving into a small format SSL G or E series desk. Or, diving into a more computer driven direction than I already am, which is significant. I ultimately decided to demo / use a Raven mti2 because I love the sound I get from my Tonelux system, and I simply felt like shaking things up a bit. So far the mti2 has been quite cool to work with, the batch commands, touch screen etc has been a nice change in flow. I have my pro tools rig up on one screen, and my V.I. rig up on the other monitor. I added a 3rd small monitor between my speakers that's on an arm that I can pull forward if I feel like I need to put my eyes somewhere else while I'm deep into editing and comping.

I remember when I got my iPhone I thought not having a tactile keyboard was going to be impossible to get used to. That's beyond in the past now, in fact I like the lack of buttons...buttons are slow and they break.

I can totally see why some would hate working with a computer screen control surface. With that said I'm a pretty old school dude when it comes to gear, and so far I'm liking this workflow. I think in a few months I'll be so fast on this that it will be like I'm using an iPhone.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #97
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by iplaydat View Post
My Avid C24 has been in the shop 2 times now in 8 years, and I'm getting tired of this! It costs a lot to ship the thing, and this time it looks like it's just going to be too expensive to repair, also considering that I may not be able to use it with the latest Pro Tools in the near future. For such a pretty penny, I can't understand why it has had issues(component design flaws maybe?), especially when I take a lot of care with my equipment. At the same price point, I feel that there just isn't any hardware control surface/mic pre/mixer out there that can replace the C24 functionality. The S3 just isn't enough, and the S6 is way over the top in price(insert SSL/Neve automated consoles here too)! I think the next phase in mixing is connecting directly with the user interface. Everything in my studio is on the computer screen. Sure I have a patch bay and now a hardware mixer for mic Pre's(C24 in the shop still), but all my VI's, plug ins mixing can all be done on the computer. So why not go right to the source? I am a little concerned with the lack of tactile feedback, but the main reason I went with the C24 was to avoid mouse and keyboard for editing, mixing, etc. I think the Raven MTZ is the future, and based on my hardware history with Avid, I can't see myself buying another control surface from Avid ever again.
I would strongly advise that you demo a RAVEN first to see if touch technology will suit you and your workflow.

It’s certainly not for everyone but the ones who bought into it and embraced benefit from it massively.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #98
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shire View Post
Using a very inaccurate means of a touchscreen to navigate fine details and adjustments with your fat fingers is a waste of time where deadlines actually matter.
On a large touch screen, it’s much easier to be accurate, certainly easier than a trackpad and potentially easier than a controller fader or a mouse.
Modifiers, zooming and fine fader mode help with that.

You are wrong. So I suggest you stop insulting us and embarrassing yourself by showing your clearly misinformed bias.

What you may have experienced or seen on an app on a phone or tablet is NOT representative of what you can do on a large touch screen connected to your DAW.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #99
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Hey ~yvo~

I normally enjoy throwing little morsels of food to potential trolls to see if they want to commit to their path, or actually have some sort of potentially, and mutually, enlightening conversation. I could be way off, but based upon this fella's offerings here, it seems his troll appetite may rival some of the poor souls I've seen in Vegas/Florida at some skanky $7.95 All You Can Eat buffet! Entertaining... in some sad kind of way.

If somebody in the sound industry could seriously be that close-minded... whew... I just don't buy it. Maybe too much to drink on a Saturday night?

There's a minor measles outbreak where I am at the moment... I better go scrub all my tablets... large and small... before continuing to play pretend music maker games. I'll get to the physical fader/knob caps and switches eventually.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #100
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Aye, not looking to feed the trolls, just challenge misleading statements for the sake of those those who do have an open mind.

In stead of arguing, I just try to correct.

Feicing eegit or not. :D
Old 2 weeks ago
  #101
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
What professional game players do is up to them. It is not necessarily relevant to what professional audio engineers do.

I work faster and more efficient on my DTouch system than I did on my Pro Control, than I did on my analogue console, than I do with just keyboard and mouse.
I'm talking about composing, recording, editing, mixing and mastering.

What you think is your truth is irrelevant to mine.
You are comparing irrelevant things and making irrelevant arguments.
I'm correcting them for the sake of others.
Whether you are trolling or narrow minded is also irrelevant.
If you have nothing constructive to contribute, I suggest you spend your time elsewhere.
I'm done with humouring your drivel.

Last edited by ~ufo~; 2 weeks ago at 08:26 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #102
TGP
Gear Nut
 

What a funny product and thread.

I am using four 4k touch and pen monitors in my Studio, three 55-inch Dell monitors (with touch and pen input) and a 32-inch Wacom monitor (with touch and high precision pen input for graphic designers).

The only backdrop is that the multi touchpoint capabilities cannot be utilised with most DAWs. So only one fader at a time, but at least within your well-known native DAW environment.
Old 1 week ago
  #103
Here for the gear
 

Well lots of strong opinions both ways! As far as the Raven being a toy for non professionals, I recall when the Apple Mac first came out, almost all the techs and electrical engineers I worked with and fellow engineers in college all scoffed at the Mac, and said it was toy and not a real computer! And where are they now? In the last company IT department that I worked for as a contractor all the computer engineers either had or wanted to use Macs for their work. It was “cache” now to show up with a Mac. I program touch screen AV control systems in my business as well as own a studio, but granted most of my income is derived from my software business. That being said I am I undaunted by touch screens, as the systems in my home and studio like lights, audio, video and displays are all controlled by touch screens(7 of them to be exact)! I don’t know anybody who misses their flip phone and hard dialing buttons, do you? My poor C24 is already in the box and ready for the highest bidder, and the Raven MTi2 should arrive tomorrow. There are no stores in my state that stock the Raven, so I am testing out the smaller one first, and then if it goes well I’ll add the MTZ when it starts shipping.
Old 1 week ago
  #104
Lives for gear
 
RightOnRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneKontrol View Post
Gorilla arm enhancer/Hunchback evolver V2.0.

Why people like bending their necks down at that angle and holding their hands up at that angle is beyond me.

Physical controllers (I.E Icon D-Command, S6 and other mid/large format) have all the ergonomics and none of the BS. Even better you can mix eyes off and every control is where you left it.

Still, I guess he has to mark up those cheap panels in a fancy package to pay for all those identical black sweatshirts.
yea.. I have a MTI2 and a control 24.. I prefer the control 24 .. there are times I wish i could use both at the same time
Old 1 week ago
  #105
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Hardware controllers and touch screen controllers both have their pros and cons, it's as simple as that.

For me and my workflow, the pros that the touch brings far outweigh the cons. I wouldn't want to go back to a hardware controller.
For others, the pros the physical nature of a hardware controller brings outweighs the downsides of it. That's fine too.

It doesn't have to be for everyone.

I will say, that for most users, spending money on a 27" MTi2 or DTouch solution will give them a lot more bang for their bucks than a similarly priced hardware controller will. No doubt.
Hardware controllers are expensive and you need to get into a certain price range for them to become really good.

With a touch screen, it's already really good on the 'budget' model. In fact, I really don't feel the need to get a larger touch screen than my 27"

That said, when I look at something like the S3 and compare it to a 43" touch screen like the MTZ, I'd rather have the touch screen too. So for me, it works at that price range too.
In fact, I'd rather have the 27" touch screen than the S3.
I might even prefer it to an S6, I don't know, never used one, but I've used Icons and D-Commands.
Touch screens are for me, I know this after owning consoles and hardware controllers.
If you've tried touch screens (27" and up) in your studio and don't like them and much prefer hardware controllers, that's absolutely fine. I take no issue if they don't suit your particular workflow.
But please don't pretend those of us who do use touch screens professionally are somehow unable to judge for themselves whether they chose the right product for THEM.
It's just.... ridiculous.
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean they don't.

Last edited by ~ufo~; 1 week ago at 06:39 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #106
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Thanks for the continued discussion. It would be very hard to argue that the RAVEN is a toy given that many of the biggest pros are using it.

But talk is cheap so I'll just post this again which makes the argument quite clear:



Keep mind the above is using a 27", and quite seamlessly as most MTi users will agree.

Now move to a 43" screen like the MTZ, and it's a whole other story... precision becomes EFFORTLESS.

But I've always said, the coolest part of this tech is how it can continue to virtually evolve and become an even better solution for its users. And Raven 3.6 and then 4.0 will not disappoint in this regard!

Cheers,
Steven
Old 1 week ago
  #107
Lives for gear
Although I'm extremely happy with my MTi2, I also get to work on an MTx periodically.

I'd have to seriously think about upgrading my MTi2 to an MTz!


The Raven is no "toy".
I love mine.
Old 1 week ago
  #108
Lives for gear
if you haven't TRIED one, you really can't know

nothing stops you from doing things with the mouse as well if you prefer to.
There are things I use the mouse for, and things I use the touch for.

But you can't beat being able to touch up to 10 faders on screen at once.... or interacting with plug in controls on screen

Last edited by wwittman; 1 week ago at 03:35 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #109
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Forget about it William, dude doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just talking about what he thinks he's talking about. Argument from ignorance.
Whereas you and I do know, because we've used touch screens for DAWs professionally and have made up our minds that they definitely bring something worthwhile to the table.

He's welcome to his opinion, but it doesn't appear like he's actually spent extensive time on a Raven or similar, if any at all, which is probably why his opinions seem so ill informed and void.

While it is true that touch screens aren’t the best solution for everyone, I’m convinced they are the best solution for most.

Nuff said.

Last edited by ~ufo~; 1 week ago at 10:50 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #110
Lives for gear
Agreed.
And again, the thing is you don’t LOSE the ability to mouse. You just ALSO gain the ability to touch.
Old 1 week ago
  #111
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

In 2017 there were 5 billion people using touchscreens. That number has no doubt increased. Could someone ban the troll please.

Anyway onto the subject of Raven. I wonder if tactile/haptic feedback will eventually come to the line? I think for me that will be the point I open my wallet.
Old 1 week ago
  #112
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
It’s true that touch screens for desktop computing hasn’t taken off hugely, but it certainly has for the ‘new’ computing, which is phones and tablets.

That last part is not so strange because in those cases both the hardware and software are specifically designed for touch.

When it comes to touch for a desktop computer you have more challenges.
People are used to the keyboard and mouse, which is fine because you can still use those.
It's also important to note that MacOS hasn’t been optimised for touch. Windows has, but not hugely.
The result is that you need a rather large touch screen for MacOS to be useable with touch. On my 27” it’s just fine as is although. I find myself combining touch and keyboard and mouse for normal computing (file browsing, web browsing, email etc).
You will find that people on windows laptops that have touch screens, will also combine touch and keyboard/trackpad.
Eventhough the laptop format wasn’t originally designed for touch and it is not ergonomic to use its touchscreen for extended periods, people do use those touch screens and miss it when they’re on a computer that doesn’t have touch. I know I do. You get used to being able to do things by touch quickly, even on a form factor and OS that wasn’t designed with touch in mind. For some things it’s just handier to reach out and touch.

When operating the DAW I find myself combining touch with keyboard and mouse too, I even use a trackpad on my left hand side for the MacOS gestures.
However, I use the touch screen a lot. Perhaps the majority of the time, often combined with my left hand on the keyboard.
I certainly use the touch screen more of the time than I used my pro control.
Eventhough Pro Tools was not designed with touch in mind, it lends itself for touch quite well, even without the help if Raven or DTouch software.
The multi tool makes it very handy to edit with touch, considering I’ve been using it with my trackball for nearly twenty years, it’s quite impressive that I’m already much faster at editing using the touch screen. I miss my touch screen a lot when I have to edit on my laptop on the road. I've probably lost some skill level at editing via trackball, because I've started favouring editing on the touch screen.

When I'm on a keyboard mouse/trackpad only system, I also miss not being able just touch the screen to hit some solos or mutes. To swipe record arm a bunch of tracks. To quickly adjust a fader or a plugin parameter. Whether you accept it or not, and regardless of whether touch screens have become mainstream in desktop computing, for those tasks, touch screens are simply much better suited than keyboard and mouse.
Now there are certain things where a mouse and/or keyboard are handier for and that’s fine. Just use what you’re most comfortable with for each task.
I find that there’s many tasks where I don’t have a big preference, I can go either way. So there's overlap.

But if you say nothing about a music screams touch screen, then I do have some notes.

Some features of a DAW are better controlled by a mouse than any other input device.
Some features of a DAW are better controlled by a keyboard than any other input device.
Some features of a DAW are better controlled by a hardware controller than any other input device.
Some features of a DAW are better controlled by a touch screen than any other input device.
Etc.

Even though touch screens are not perfect, I personally find them the best compromise between all of them.
I prefer my current setup to all the other setups I've tried and used professionally. The fact that you can easily and ergonomically combine it with traditional computer input devices like keyboard and mouse alone is a huge plus.
Even people on an Icon or other large format hardware controllers use the keyboard and mouse a lot and that’s fine. It doesn’t have to replace everything.
The advantage a touch screen has over a large controller is that it’s relative small and inexpensive. And where it obviously lacks the tactile feedback, it has quite a few advantages over a hardware controller and keyboard and mouse that makes it a very worthwhile addition to the keyboard and mouse.

I used to use an analogue console, then I used an analogue console with a pro control to the side. Then I moved the ProControl on top of the console for ITB projects, then I moved the console to the side and the Pro Control into the sweet spot. Then I replaced the pro Control with the touch screen and then I sold the console. I haven't changed the setup in the last few years.

My current setup is:
27 touch screen on ergotron sit/stand arm.
Magic Trackpad (for gestures)
Keyboard (for typing, modifiers and shortcuts)
Wireless Trackman (pointer, modifiers, scrolling, etc).

I’ve been working like this for a few years and every time I consider adding some faders or a softube console 1 for example, I decide that I wouldn’t want to push my touch screen farther away from me to accommodate that. It wouldn't be worth it.
Eventhough controlling real faders is nicer than on a touch screen, I personally miss those faders far less than I would miss my touch screen.
I could add a cheap single fader controller to the side, which wouldn’t dusturb my great setup, but I haven’t yet. I’m sure it would add something, but I’m so happy with my current setup that I’ve lost that constant yearning for something better that I used to have. Even spending less than 200 bucks on a single fader controller doesn't feel like something necessarily worth the hassle.

Every time I see another multiple fader hardware controller come out I’m like ‘meh, a fool’s errand in my opinion’.

The only thing I’m mildly interested in is an ultrawide touch screen slab the size of say 16-24 faders to display the faders, swap to macros, keyboard, navigation etc.
So if anything I'd like a second touch screen to replace my remaining three classic input devices.

But I’m fine as is. It works really well for me.
Better than just mouse an keyboard.
Better than pro control, mouse and keyboard.
Better than analogue console, pro control, mouse and keyboard.

It might not look as impressive, but in terms of ergonomics, ease of use and efficiency, it’s undoubtedly the best setup I’ve ever had. It’s not perfect, but overall it beats everything else I’ve tried.
That’s something many nay sayers just fail to understand.
Yes touch has some down sides, but I’m convinced that for the majority of people, the upsides outweigh the downsides.
Nay sayers often just focus on how one down side insurmountable for some particular workflow. That's fine, and can be valid, but it must be understood that if a product doesn't meet a particular customer demand, it doesn't mean it's not a good solution to the mainstream, it just means it's not a good solution for that particular use case.
Other people may still find a better solution in other things like a hardware controller or even just keyboard and mouse and that’s fine.
For most people, however, adding a touch screen (say 27” and up) is one of the best and most cost effective things you can add to your DAW setup.
It’s not for everyone, but it’s a great solution for most. Period.

Last edited by ~ufo~; 1 week ago at 10:35 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #113
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Anyway onto the subject of Raven. I wonder if tactile/haptic feedback will eventually come to the line? I think for me that will be the point I open my wallet.
There was some news about that in recent years but it seems to have disappeared off the radar.
That morphing screen technology might come, but I doubt it will be soon.
What do you want it for specifically? Faders?
Old 1 week ago
  #114
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
There was some news about that in recent years but it seems to have disappeared off the radar.
That morphing screen technology might come, but I doubt it will be soon.
What do you want it for specifically? Faders?
Yes! 100% for faders. Don’t really see a need for plugins.
Maybe some haptic feedback when scrolling through transients in the edit window? But really for faders.
Old 1 week ago
  #115
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Okay, well I can understand that to some extent. I wonder how quickly a morphing screen could react though. It would have to be within tens of a second to be useable though, because people tend to navigate between mix and edit views quite quickly. it would be annoying to have those fader traces left on your screen as you're editing.

if they are too slow to follow your workflow, which I think is likely, you'd have to have the faders on a separate touch screen for it to be handy.

I guess if it comes and it works well I'd welcome it, but personally I really don't find the absolute need for it.
People often say that you can operate consoles and hardware controllers with your eyes closed and really, I never did.
No chance I could find the gain of the HMF of even the fader of channel 19 with my eyes closed.
Sure there are some times where I'd tweak or AB something with my eyes closed, but only to make sure I wasn't fooling myself with confirmation bias, or just to eliminate visual distractions.
That implies I grabbed/touched controls with my eyes open and then closed my eyes to AB or tweak. I can do that on a touch screen without haptic feedback too.

I guess it would be nice to have it and I'm sure I'd find a use for it, but I don't find myself missing that haptic feedback that much.
Sure, grabbing a fader feels nicer and I'll never contest that, but personally the virtual faders on a touch screen do what I want them to do and they even have some advantages like emitting no motor noise.
That said, there are many fader banks these days that have a very small footprint, which you could combine with a touch screen.
I think it should be noted that if faders are the main reason why you won't by a touch screen, there is an option to combine the world that a touch screen opens for you with the few advantages hardware faders have. I personally don't find myself yearning for it, but for those who do, it is an option.
That's the nice thing about this time. There's a lot of powerful smaller peripherals that you can combine with each other to suit YOUR need.
Because that one particular hardware controller that everyone's always hoping for will be released, will never be released, because it's a different controller for everyone.

That's probably why you see a lot of people like junkie XL and Hans Zimmer add a lot of touch screen to their setups because they are easily customised to control what THEY want in the way THEY want it.
mix and match.
Old 1 week ago
  #116
Lives for gear
 
StillCrazy's Avatar
 

touchscreens

UFO I have to agree with you.

I use DTouch and I still use my mouse. It depends totally on the function needed.

I had an engineer in the studio the other day and he had never tried a touch screen before and he disliked it greatly except for the enlarged fader option to do fine adjustments. Everything else he did was by a mouse.

To each their own.

I have never found any type of interface to be a 100% of everything needed but we need to use those aspects of each piece of gear where it fits into our workflow.


Now back to mixing at 6 in the morning.
Old 1 week ago
  #117
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
Of course, the first time I used a ProControl in somebody else’s studio I ended up doing most things by mouse too. Pretty much everything except faders, mutes and solos probably.

But two days in that studio was enough for me to decide that getting one to sit next to my console was maybe a worthwhile investment. Just for the solos and mutes I thought a 1k investment was worth it.
My touch screen system is orders of magnitude more useful than that.
If you’re a heavy fader users (which I’m not) then you may want to add hardware faders to it. We all have our priorities.
Old 1 week ago
  #118
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
Okay, well I can understand that to some extent. I wonder how quickly a morphing screen could react though. It would have to be within tens of a second to be useable though, because people tend to navigate between mix and edit views quite quickly. it would be annoying to have those fader traces left on your screen as you're editing.

if they are too slow to follow your workflow, which I think is likely, you'd have to have the faders on a separate touch screen for it to be handy.

I guess if it comes and it works well I'd welcome it, but personally I really don't find the absolute need for it.
People often say that you can operate consoles and hardware controllers with your eyes closed and really, I never did.
No chance I could find the gain of the HMF of even the fader of channel 19 with my eyes closed.
Sure there are some times where I'd tweak or AB something with my eyes closed, but only to make sure I wasn't fooling myself with confirmation bias, or just to eliminate visual distractions.
That implies I grabbed/touched controls with my eyes open and then closed my eyes to AB or tweak. I can do that on a touch screen without haptic feedback too.

I guess it would be nice to have it and I'm sure I'd find a use for it, but I don't find myself missing that haptic feedback that much.
Sure, grabbing a fader feels nicer and I'll never contest that, but personally the virtual faders on a touch screen do what I want them to do and they even have some advantages like emitting no motor noise.
That said, there are many fader banks these days that have a very small footprint, which you could combine with a touch screen.
I think it should be noted that if faders are the main reason why you won't by a touch screen, there is an option to combine the world that a touch screen opens for you with the few advantages hardware faders have. I personally don't find myself yearning for it, but for those who do, it is an option.
That's the nice thing about this time. There's a lot of powerful smaller peripherals that you can combine with each other to suit YOUR need.
Because that one particular hardware controller that everyone's always hoping for will be released, will never be released, because it's a different controller for everyone.

That's probably why you see a lot of people like junkie XL and Hans Zimmer add a lot of touch screen to their setups because they are easily customised to control what THEY want in the way THEY want it.
mix and match.
No idea how far along the development is here, but I think the future is not tactile feedback via physical surface but via electronic dynamic haptic feedback.
This would work I think:
Old 1 week ago
  #119
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
I guess they could incorporate that stuff into apple watches and stuff.
i'm sure this kind of tech will come, I just don't know how quickly it will come to touch screens.

I understand the added feel it gives, but I don't exactly see the necessity of it for my personal workflow.
Actually, if anything I would prefer my touchscreen to be smoother, not rougher.

Just like I'm over the fact that non alcoholic beer simply lacks the flavour of alcohol (apparently this amounts to an existential crisis for some) and I can enjoy it for what it is and at times even prefer it to alcoholic beers, I'm over the fact that what I'm touching is glass an not a fader. It's different, but it works so I've moved on.
I think it's mostly people who are on the fence about using one that think it's a big deal.
If you've tried one extensively and have come to the conclusion that you cannot work without haptic feedback, then that's ok. Touch screens aren't for you.
But if you're not sure, then I think you should ask people who do use a touch screen whether it is actually a lingering issue. I can't think of any Raven or Dtouch users I know who mention that it a lot. I think that for most people it's a non issue once you get used to it and for a minority it's insurmountable.
My advice is test whether you just think it's insurmountable or whether there's something in your workflow that just requires haptic feedback.

That said, I'm sure there are extra dimensions that could be added through haptic feedback that could be helpful. With the haptic feedback would have to come force touch, for example. Makes no sense to feel around your faders to find the third one if you've accidentally moved all the faders to get there. So you would have to have a non activating soft touch to find things and then a more forceful touch to grab it, for example.

Anyway. If it brings handy extra functionality, I'll be interested in it. As is though, the fact that I'm touching a glass pane without haptic feedback doesn't bother me at all and I've been on my touch screen for about four years now.

The main advancement in touch screens I'm interested in is smaller ultrawide screens to compliment my main one with.
Considering how slowly that development is going...... I wouldn't hold my breath for haptic feedback touchscreens for DAWs.
Old 1 week ago
  #120
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Sir shire is like the #1 troll dudes. Don’t waste your time.

Looking forward to the new software. Getting back into using mine and really loving it.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Steven Slate / Product Alerts older than 2 months
34
API Sez... / Product Alerts older than 2 months
24
Steven Slate / Product Alerts older than 2 months
37
Steven Slate / Product Alerts older than 2 months
1816
Steven Slate / Product Alerts older than 2 months
651

Forum Jump
Forum Jump