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Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone
Old 3rd September 2019
  #241
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarheadhunt View Post
Yes I put both mics up and did a single vocal pass. The wa47 does have a lot more mids. I guess that is why it seems to poke out more on the track. That is why I think it sounds more open. It is open more in the mids which to me makes it more up front and in your face. The 251 is slightly hotter than the 47. My experience with both mics neither is very essy. Both sound great. Maybe the 251 I got is not hitting on all 4 cylinders. I can see each mic working in different situations.

I still plan to do more testing. I am starting to wonder if the 251 might have a defect or maybe the tube is not great. It does not sound the way you describe yours. It is not overly bright at all. It does not sound open. It sounds a little rounder if anything because of the low mids.
did you too kcare of the proximity effect during your test?how many cms away did you sing?
Old 3rd September 2019
  #242
Gear Head
 
guitarheadhunt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stergios T. View Post
did you too kcare of the proximity effect during your test?how many cms away did you sing?
Yes I did multiple passes at various distances. The closes I was about 6 to 8 inches the furthest was about 12 to 16 inches. I wanted to test their proximity effect as well. They are both very rich and thick sounding mics. Certainly a lot thicker than the CV4 I have been using.

They both have a nice low in. They are both different in their low end response.
They both have nice highs. Neither are over exaggerated in the highs. I guess the big difference is the mids. The 47 is more upfront in that department. Also their low end response is a bit different.
Old 4th September 2019
  #243
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarheadhunt View Post
Not with the 2 I have here. Don't get me wrong they both sound great. They both have a nice high end. The wa251 to me sounds rounder and a little more covered. Which translates to my ears as a darker mic. The wa47 like I said sounds more open. The wa251 seems to round everything off where the wa47 has more of a bite.

This is why I have a hard time deciding. The wa47 to me is so open I can here the slightest imperfections in the vocals where as the wa251 seems to cover them up a bit more. The wa47 seems to have a more aggressive in your face sound and the wa251 is a bit more laid back and smoother. I like what both mics do. I guess it depends on the mood and what I want to hear.

The wa47 cuts through a mix a lot better in my opinion without any eq. Very similar to a Miktek Cv4. The CV4 lacks the low end of the wa47. Everyone says the CV4 is suppose to be modeled after a 251 but it sounds nothing close to the wa251. It sounds closer to the wa47. In fact the CV4 has a center terminated capsule like the wa47 does.

I am glad you were able to make your choice with good conviction. It is not as easy for me. I like them both.
From your description, I think you'd like the Vanguard V13. I've used both it and the WA47. Never tried the WA251.
Old 4th September 2019
  #244
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdkelly View Post
I really want to hear the TC capsules, I really do. I still haven't yet. We've crossed paths via email just a handful of times over the last 5 years and each time he was out of stock, or on tour at the time, or something like that. He didn't want to take my info down and just asked me to email back in a few months or next year or something, and (no offense meant to him at all!!), I just had to move on... just because I'm trying to run a business (as dysfunctional and ADD as I already am, LOL), so I just couldn't try to base anything around that. Would love to give it a try in the future.
Chad this isn't my recollection at all. I still have your emails and info and just reread them.
You originally approached me in 2016 about designing a capsule for you that a 3rd party would build for Warm Audio in asia. After that we discussed me possibly building for you but your house had been damaged by flooding and you would get back to me and that is the last I've heard from you.That was 2017.

You personally emailed me at least 10 times.
I had answered every email promptly and I do believe I even called you on the telephone.

Last edited by Tim Campbell; 4th September 2019 at 08:12 PM..
Old 4th September 2019
  #245
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Old 4th September 2019
  #246
Old 4th September 2019
  #247
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Campbell View Post
Chad this isn't my recollection at all. I still have your emails and info and just reread them.
You originally approached me in 2016 about designing a capsule for you that a 3rd party would build for Warm Audio in asia. After that we discussed me possibly building for you but your house had been damaged by flooding and you would get back to me and that is the last I've heard from you. That was 2017.

I had answered every email promptly and I do believe I even called you on the telephone.
Perhaps his flooded house preoccupied his mind (and memory of the events)?
Old 4th September 2019
  #248
Lives for gear
 

I wonder what my excuse is! (I'm the "poster boy" for anyone can become a chess master) Lost enough unbrellas, sunglasses etc., to buy a TLM 103. Good thing my head's screwed on!

So... Dealing with a major flood, well that's a perfectly understandable chain of events.

Chris
Old 4th September 2019
  #249
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Campbell View Post
Chad this isn't my recollection at all. I still have your emails and info and just reread them.
You originally approached me in 2016 about designing a capsule for you that a 3rd party would build for Warm Audio in asia. After that we discussed me possibly building for you but your house had been damaged by flooding and you would get back to me and that is the last I've heard from you.That was 2017.

You personally emailed me at least 10 times.
I had answered every email promptly and I do believe I even called you on the telephone.
Hi Tim,

Good to hear from you. I believe there are 2 different threads of email conversations, though I would need to dig them up to refresh my own memories as well. I do remember discussing with you the idea of designing a CK12 capsule to be made overseas for Warm, which never happened obviously. This was probably in the final weeks I was there before moving back to begin rebuilding my house (and helping with the houses of several other family members) that was destroyed in the floods; so I apologize if that project was left hanging as a result (as many things were), although I think we can both agree that the challenges of mass-producing a true CK12 in Asia are numerous and was a long shot at best, anyhow. I'm still trying to think of how that might could be done. As has been suggested, yes I was inundated both with personal stress and a million projects going on at once at that time; so my memory of that will be a bit fragmented there toward the end.

I had also emailed you personally a couple different times, I believe, about just buying a sample capsule for myself and to try out, at least two different times, and it just seemed like there wasn't much clarity on when they would be available. I never said you didn't reply promptly, I am sure you did; I just simply could not get a capsule at those times and so I moved on and of course much later found Eric Heiserman through a chance meeting at NAMM. I meant no offense. I know you make a fantastic product, which I still want to try one day!

best regards,
Chad
Old 5th September 2019
  #250
Thanks for clearing that up Chad.
I don't want to drag this out. I try to give the absolute best customer service possible. Period. I am a one man company and so my answering of emails can seem slow at times. Since returning from summer vacation I currently have a large number of orders plus repairs. That said I wouldn't want anybody to get the impression that I am irresponsible, unresponsive or uncaring which they might from some of the comments.
I make realistic deadlines and I do everything in my power to keep them. I try my best to eliminate any burdens for non european customers. My largest client base is and always has been the US so I'm not sure there is so much home court advantage when it comes to purchasing a capsule.
The reputation of my work comes only from clients word of mouth recommendations from their real world experience using my capsule which is very humbling and for which I try to show my appreciation.
Old 5th September 2019
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Campbell View Post
I make realistic deadlines and I do everything in my power to keep them. I try my best to eliminate any burdens for non european customers. My largest client base is and always has been the US so I'm not sure there is so much home court advantage when it comes to purchasing a capsule.
Totally agree Tim. If/when I ever order anything, where you're geographically located... Doesn't appear at all on my mental radar. (or is that Sonar?)
Chris
Old 6th September 2019
  #252
Lives for gear
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarheadhunt View Post
Yes I put both mics up and did a single vocal pass. The wa47 does have a lot more mids. I guess that is why it seems to poke out more on the track. That is why I think it sounds more open. It is open more in the mids which to me makes it more up front and in your face. The 251 is slightly hotter than the 47. My experience with both mics neither is very essy. Both sound great. Maybe the 251 I got is not hitting on all 4 cylinders. I can see each mic working in different situations.

I still plan to do more testing. I am starting to wonder if the 251 might have a defect or maybe the tube is not great. It does not sound the way you describe yours. It is not overly bright at all. It does not sound open. It sounds a little rounder if anything because of the low mids.
A 251 should brighter and scooped in the mids compared to the 47, if not, something is wrong with one of your mics.
Old 28th September 2019
  #253
Gear Maniac
 
Lunar Attic's Avatar
Took delivery of my WA-251 today.

I had been looking to up-grade my locker with a +/-1K mic for vocal duties for some time.

Not a fan of overly bright, 'modern' sounding mics my shortlist eventually included the WA-47, the WA-251, the Vanguard V13 and -outsider- Neumann TLM 193

Deliberated and procrastinated for a fair long while and when I happened upon a nice discount, went for the 251 in a late night, alcohol assisted, acute GAS attack, impulse-buy shopping spree.

I gotta say, after some very quick, preliminary testing, I like this mic! It's so smooth! Harshness; none. Sibilance; sorted. Boomy low end; gone. All important mids; all there.

After a first take with no EQ/compression I felt confident about boosting some 12kHz and dialing in some gain reduction on the TAM VTRC. That worked. Bigly.

Stock JJ tube, no mods or nothing and I'm totally impressed. I'm keeping this one!

Next up in trials; acoustic guitar and female vocals.


T
Old 13th October 2019
  #254
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did anyone tried to replace the stock jj tube ?
Old 13th October 2019
  #255
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How does the 251 compare to a cv12?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #256
Here for the gear
 

just wondering can you put a 12ax7 tube in this microphone. i know that the 12ay7 and 12ax7 fit the same but how will it affect this microphone? thanks :p
Old 4 weeks ago
  #257
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
probably more distortion, a little more noise. probably change the tonal balance some, worth a try, just stick one in. keep in mind it's not what the mic was designed for, not what the mic was designed to sound like.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #258
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobislife View Post
just wondering can you put a 12ax7 tube in this microphone. i know that the 12ay7 and 12ax7 fit the same but how will it affect this microphone? thanks :p
just FYI, a 12AX7 and a 12AY7 are not at all meant to be interchangeable tubes. You'd get in more trouble putting a 12AY7 into a 12AX7 circuit because it draws more current (if memory serves) and could damage the PSU... I think. It has different internal measurements such as capacitance, plate resistance, and gain factor. The opposite of this swap may be more safe but I would still not try this. Some experiments should not be tried. It couldn't possibly be better since the circuit wasn't made for that tube. There's also a direct relationship between the tube and output output transformer. the 12AY7 is pretty well matched to 'talk' to the T14 style transformer in a 251. It's why the C12 and other circuits also pair up those same parts, more or less.

The right thing to think about is what is a more appropriate 12AY7 or 6072/6072A tube to put in place of the JJ 12AY7, which I don't personally think is a good choice on that mic (even though I actually do like JJ tubes quite a bit on some things, particularly guitar amps, as long as they are screened for low noise/low microphonics. I usually use Tube Depot for this). I personally like the TAD 12AY7 Highgrade as a low noise/low distortion and very clean tube that sonically sort of 'stays out of the way' and lets the voicing of the other stuff shine through. I had used that tube on most of the WA251's I modded. The best option though, if you can find it, is to get some version of Jan GE 6072, black plate or gray plate or 5 star version... they're all quite decent and have that 'larger than life' sound that kind of takes the 251 circuit to its best place, IMO. The 5 star is considered the best but very hard to fine. The others are fine though. But you do need to usually test/burn in that tube and clean the pins good with a steel wire brush to de-scale them. I sometimes have to go through a couple of them to get a really good one. I only use that tube on the 251's I've built from scratch, just because they are more scarce and pricey.

Chad
www.unitedstudiotech.com
Old 3 weeks ago
  #259
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdkelly View Post
just FYI, a 12AX7 and a 12AY7 are not at all meant to be interchangeable tubes. You'd get in more trouble putting a 12AY7 into a 12AX7 circuit because it draws more current (if memory serves) and could damage the PSU... I think. It has different internal measurements such as capacitance, plate resistance, and gain factor. The opposite of this swap may be more safe but I would still not try this. Some experiments should not be tried. It couldn't possibly be better since the circuit wasn't made for that tube. There's also a direct relationship between the tube and output output transformer. the 12AY7 is pretty well matched to 'talk' to the T14 style transformer in a 251. It's why the C12 and other circuits also pair up those same parts, more or less.

The right thing to think about is what is a more appropriate 12AY7 or 6072/6072A tube to put in place of the JJ 12AY7, which I don't personally think is a good choice on that mic (even though I actually do like JJ tubes quite a bit on some things, particularly guitar amps, as long as they are screened for low noise/low microphonics. I usually use Tube Depot for this). I personally like the TAD 12AY7 Highgrade as a low noise/low distortion and very clean tube that sonically sort of 'stays out of the way' and lets the voicing of the other stuff shine through. I had used that tube on most of the WA251's I modded. The best option though, if you can find it, is to get some version of Jan GE 6072, black plate or gray plate or 5 star version... they're all quite decent and have that 'larger than life' sound that kind of takes the 251 circuit to its best place, IMO. The 5 star is considered the best but very hard to fine. The others are fine though. But you do need to usually test/burn in that tube and clean the pins good with a steel wire brush to de-scale them. I sometimes have to go through a couple of them to get a really good one. I only use that tube on the 251's I've built from scratch, just because they are more scarce and pricey.

Chad
www.unitedstudiotech.com
Have you tried all those ge 6072 you mentioned-?how is the 5 star ge 6072 compared to a mullard 6201,CV4024 and M8162?which of those tubes has better high mids(soft,not harsh)tight lows and low mids and nice highs?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #260
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stergios T. View Post
Have you tried all those ge 6072 you mentioned-?how is the 5 star ge 6072 compared to a mullard 6201,CV4024 and M8162?which of those tubes has better high mids(soft,not harsh)tight lows and low mids and nice highs?
Hi, I have not yet heard the Mullard gold pin tube you mentioned; but a 6201 and a CV4024 are variants of the 12AT7 tube. The Ela M 251/250/AKG C12 circuit uses a 12AY7, which is what we're really talking about here; so it's really hard to make an apples/oranges comparison when you can't really drop two different tube types into the same circuit and get a meaningful comparison. The circuit is optimized for one tube type and another tube type is just going to either sound not-optimal or not function.

As far as the 12AY7/6072/6072A, I have heard the Jan GE blackplate, Grayplate, and GE 5 Star (blackplate) 12AY7. they are all rather similar, with subtle differences; with the 5 Star being considered the best (but IMO, the others mentioned are plenty good enough to be satisfied with). The main difference between that and other tubes, particularly new production tubes, is just how the sound sort of jumps out at you in a bigger and more three dimensional way. it just gives the mic that extra 'something' that kicks it up to the next level and has the 'bigness' and sonic realism and life-like (or larger than life) character of many higher end microphones. I know that's not exactly a scientific or easily measurable statement; but it's quite audible and those are my sort of gut impressions.

Put it this way, i was using the TAD Germany 12AY7 Highgrade in my WA-251 mods and in some of my own handmade C12/251 mics that I made for clients under the Signal Art name. I was also using a very specific TAD 12AX7-WA Highgrade in my WA-47 upgrades. And even though nothing really touches those new tubes in terms of noise performance and clarity; it just doesn't have those larger than life characteristics that those NOS parts do. and so now, even though it costs more and is a pain in the butt really to clean and check these tubes and to keep extras on hand (because you will get bad ones, with age its inevitable), I am using only these NOS tubes on the mods and mic builds from here on out. I just couldn't deny what my ears were saying to me.

Chad
www.unitedstudiotech.com
Old 3 weeks ago
  #261
Gear Guru
Bowie on here is a great tube source FWIW.
Old 5 days ago
  #262
Here for the gear
 

Actual Experience of use

I have now owned this long enough to say something useful about it.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with this mic. The quality is awesome and it looks expensive. However I do not really care about that. I care about sound quality and the malleability of what I have recorded.

So does it do vocal leads? Yes.
Does it do acoustic guitars? Hell yes.
Does it do rap? Yes.
Does it do song? Hell yes.
Does it stack? Awesomely!
Does it compare to almost anything? yes.

Also I cannot get a bad result out of this mic. It is just good! This compares favourably to everything in it's priceclass. I actually prefer this over the Neumann U87, which I did my last project on. Just because I feel it sounds "prettier". As sound goes I think it does everything, and what it does not do I have been able to easily do in the mix (the quality of sound is astonishing) - there is just so much "there" there to carve it out.

The power source is also fine - completely quality. The guys complaining about it probably had some shipping issues... However since it is not a 2000 mic, this might be the point of compromise as the switches click. However they are hard stepped so it doesn't matter.

There is no reason to switch the tube or the transformer. They are good for this priceclass. I can see there is a holy grail of the actual 251 you strive for, but the mic is good enough to compete well into the 2000€ market. Also this is what you would construct if you could by yourself(the components are good with no actual compromise), and you can buy that now without the hassle of having to learn the craft or having to do with the ebay thing with random guys online (and feeling screwed afterwards).

So if your only gripe is that it isn't a real 251, you are completely missing the point. What you actually want is the capsule on this mic, and so far this is the only mass produced version one of it's kind. I would recommend a decent preamp with this as it brings it so much forward. Using a SPL tube pre and GAP pre 73 or better, just makes it so much better still. It kind of gets exponentially better with a decent pre, unlike some mics that are more picky with what you put in front of them.
Old 5 days ago
  #263
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Clips?
Chris
Old 5 days ago
  #264
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Bowie on here is a great tube source FWIW.
Is there a website or is it email only?
Old 5 days ago
  #265
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_sg View Post
Is there a website or is it email only?
I got in touch by a PM to Bowie on here and he sent e-mail address. Sorry not near e-mail. You should be able to find him. I'll look on e-mail when I get the chance. His name is Christian and he does run a business and is very helpful!
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