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Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone Condenser Microphones
Old 21st February 2019
  #151
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Thanks! Chris
Old 21st February 2019
  #152
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Cool. What other comps have you compared them to? There's not a lot out there as far as reviews, samples, etc.
I haven't really compared them to many hardware compressors. The only non Alctron ones I have in my studio are the stripped-down 1176s in my 4-710D. The CP540 is supposed to be like a Neve 2254 though and sounds quite good. Perhaps I should compare to some Neve style compressor plugins since I'm limited on hardware compressors.
Old 22nd February 2019
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
Thank you, Noel for taking the time to share those photos. I think it's safe to say that the NS-251 houses a build that looks far superior to the old "modder's fave", T11a. I also understand that they changed the transformer from the old T11a to a newer design that addresses previous concerns about low-end distortion.

At only $399, the NS-251 seems to be a very interesting specimen and it wouldn't surprise me if you were able to move quite a few units if a future shootout against the WA251 proved favorable.
So, I was just looking through Alctron's paper catalog and noticed that the T190's equivalent noise spec is actually only 14dB, so wherever I copied and pasted from to my site before was definitely a typo. I can also say that with certainty because I just received my WA251 yesterday and when I compared the two with the exact same preamp gain with silence in the room I heard almost zero noticeable difference in noise levels. Shootout to come soon, but just playing around with it they seem to sound very similar tonally, at least on the guitar I was playing. Can't wait to see how they compare on more sources!
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Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone-t190.jpg  
Old 22nd February 2019
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
So, I was just looking through Alctron's paper catalog and noticed that the T190's equivalent noise spec is actually only 14dB, so wherever I copied and pasted from to my site before was definitely a typo. I can also say that with certainty because I just received my WA251 yesterday and when I compared the two with the exact same preamp gain with silence in the room I heard almost zero noticeable difference in noise levels. Shootout to come soon, but just playing around with it they seem to sound very similar tonally, at least on the guitar I was playing. Can't wait to see how they compare on more sources!
you should also take a look at the Alctron MK47, which can be ordered off Alibaba easily enough. It's not bad, though the transformer and capsule are a bit inferior... but not hard to upgrade, and basically then you would have the US version, so to speak. and experimenting with the better parts can be interesting... I can suggest what works best in it.
Old 22nd February 2019
  #155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdkelly View Post
you should also take a look at the Alctron MK47, which can be ordered off Alibaba easily enough. It's not bad, though the transformer and capsule are a bit inferior... but not hard to upgrade, and basically then you would have the US version, so to speak. and experimenting with the better parts can be interesting... I can suggest what works best in it.
I have tried the MK47. It's a beautiful, massive mic, but its also Alctron's most expensive one. Would have to sell them for about $600 and it took me a while to sell just the one I had. Gotta get some momentum on my NS-251 sales before I consider selling another model.
Old 23rd February 2019
  #156
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Been reading through this thread for a while...
Just got a WA251 to test - it is a lovely mic and a keeper.
I have tones of mics spaning 70 years of recording technology - all original and none moded! However, I have a NOS GE6072a laying around and this thread triggered my curiosity to replace the JJ tube. Who doesn't want "more 3D sound" ?
We'll see...
Old 24th February 2019
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
I have tried the MK47. It's a beautiful, massive mic, but its also Alctron's most expensive one. Would have to sell them for about $600 and it took me a while to sell just the one I had. Gotta get some momentum on my NS-251 sales before I consider selling another model.
Hi Noel, I'm curious to know more about your business model. Are you importing/selling the Alctron mics to compete against the other importer brands? just curious.
Old 24th February 2019
  #158
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdkelly View Post
Hi Noel, I'm curious to know more about your business model. Are you importing/selling the Alctron mics to compete against the other importer brands? just curious.
When I first placed my order for my N-SONIC NS-251 mics in 2017 any 251 style mics that I could find were much more than a grand. I saw an opportunity to put out the only 251 for less than a grand and I filled that hole. The NS-251 was officially released June 1, 2018 for $599, but then I lowered the price to $399 to try and get some momentum on their sales. Obviously, since Warm's WA251 just came out I wasn't competing with them, but now I have that competition so I'm trying to use that to my advantage. My original N-SONIC mics were ribbon mics back in like 2007. I saw that I could sell them much cheaper than the exact same models from a much larger brand. By the time my order came in, that brand significantly dropped their prices on those models, so I taught myself to mod ribbon mics in order to be able to sell them for more and still make a decent profit. Basically, I just buy whatever I think I can sell for enough of a markup to be worth my time and make some decent side money. It has nothing to do with competing with specific brands. I try to have as little competition as possible.
Old 24th February 2019
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
When I first placed my order for my N-SONIC NS-251 mics in 2017 any 251 style mics that I could find were much more than a grand. I saw an opportunity to put out the only 251 for less than a grand and I filled that hole. The NS-251 was officially released June 1, 2018 for $599, but then I lowered the price to $399 to try and get some momentum on their sales. Obviously, since Warm's WA251 just came out I wasn't competing with them, but now I have that competition so I'm trying to use that to my advantage. My original N-SONIC mics were ribbon mics back in like 2007. I saw that I could sell them much cheaper than the exact same models from a much larger brand. By the time my order came in, that brand significantly dropped their prices on those models, so I taught myself to mod ribbon mics in order to be able to sell them for more and still make a decent profit. Basically, I just buy whatever I think I can sell for enough of a markup to be worth my time and make some decent side money. It has nothing to do with competing with specific brands. I try to have as little competition as possible.
Very interesting. Well I see the mics on Reverb and they look great. I can tell of course its an Alctron product but they do look nice. What capsule and transformer is in it at that super low price of $399? It's a good business strategy, I wish you good luck on it.
Old 28th February 2019
  #160
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i tested warm 251 the last 2 days and i can definately say that it is ..a great mic!

i Tried it with 2-3 preamps and compared (the same takes) with gefell m930,milab vip 50,vintage neuman u47 fet on my voice.They are all great mics but i prefered gefell and warm 251 on my voice
the gefell m930 and warm 251 are almost indistinguisable in my opinion.A small difference in the low end and about 280 hz .Warm takes eq very very well!
Old 8th March 2019
  #161
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I'd love to hear from anyone who's had a chance to compare the WA251 to a Telefunken Copperhead.
Old 9th March 2019
  #162
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IMHO "hands down" the Copperhead was much better, than the WA-251, on my bright voice (particularly my tenorish 2nd Tenor range).
Definitely flatter response, which works better for my voice type.

The Copperhead capsule was also smoother vs. the Warm.
AFAIK 3U Audio is providing Warm with their capsules.

I suspect, however, it was a "thin" Warm 251, due to other end users being happy with their microphone (which is great).

Oddly enough, I had a similar experience the first time singing through the U67 RI. Compared to the other Neumann U67 reissue, the second one sounded tremendous. (the first one "anemic" in comparison)
Chris
Old 9th March 2019
  #163
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
IMHO "hands down" the Copperhead was much better, than the WA-251, on my bright voice (particularly my tenorish 2nd Tenor range).
Definitely flatter response, which works better for my voice type.

The Copperhead capsule was also smoother vs. the Warm.
AFAIK 3U Audio is providing Warm with their capsules.

I suspect, however, it was a "thin" Warm 251, due to other end users being happy with their microphone (which is great).

Oddly enough, I had a similar experience the first time singing through the U67 RI. Compared to the other Neumann U67 reissue, the second one sounded tremendous. (the first one "anemic" in comparison)
Chris
Interesting. I also think because it's a tube mic, there's always the possibility that the tube was acting up. I remember I once had an AT4060, and a few times I fired it up and it sounded rather thin. But it wasn't a thin sounding mic at all.
Thanks for the feedback, Chris!
Old 9th March 2019
  #164
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RedBaaron's Avatar
Can someone with one of the current generation of Telefunken Elam 251-E shoot it out against this Warm 251 and post the file, please?

Last edited by RedBaaron; 10th March 2019 at 12:25 AM..
Old 10th March 2019
  #165
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I think the current generation sound harsh compared to the vintage one.

YouTube

Daniel.
Old 10th March 2019
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielbest1 View Post
I think the current generation sound harsh compared to the vintage one.

YouTube

Daniel.
But then it's also totally great that the new generation is around, as if you put a smoother capsule, a tasty tube and maybe a Pio cap at the output there won't be any harsh left and you are very likely hearing very sweet tones.....for very little faff.
Old 10th March 2019
  #167
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Has anyione tried warm 251 with another tube?it is really good with the stock tube but i d like ti try it with a better tube!do you think that a great NOS tube d make a noticable impact to its sound?which way?
Old 10th March 2019
  #168
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stergios T. View Post
Has anyione tried warm 251 with another tube?it is really good with the stock tube but i d like ti try it with a better tube!do you think that a great NOS tube d make a noticable impact to its sound?which way?
Should very definitely impact its sound. Which way, you find out when you put the tube in.
Old 10th March 2019
  #169
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First thing, I'd throw something like a NOS Mullard in it, to further mellow it.
(but then I'm a huge ribbon fan!)

IMHO the Warm is a very nice microphone. But Bock/T-Funk/Upton/Lawson etc.,
won't lose any sleep over it.
Chris
Old 10th March 2019
  #170
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stergios T. View Post
Has anyione tried warm 251 with another tube?it is really good with the stock tube but i d like ti try it with a better tube!do you think that a great NOS tube d make a noticable impact to its sound?which way?
I haven't tried swapping tubes with this mic, but I did with my WA-47. I have a number of NOS 5751 tubes and tried each of them in the Wa-47. None of them really made any noticeable difference. Unlike a lot of inexpensive tube mics which are designed around no specific tube, the WA-47 and the WA-251 were designed around a specific JJ tube (but different ones), and the mics sound great with those. A different tube may make no difference, or could make it different, but not necessarily better.
Old 10th March 2019
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric4001 View Post
I haven't tried swapping tubes with this mic, but I did with my WA-47. I have a number of NOS 5751 tubes and tried each of them in the Wa-47. None of them really made any noticeable difference. Unlike a lot of inexpensive tube mics which are designed around no specific tube, the WA-47 and the WA-251 were designed around a specific JJ tube (but different ones), and the mics sound great with those. A different tube may make no difference, or could make it different, but not necessarily better.
Thats what i was thinking...those mics are designed around a specific tube but maybe another tube has the same characterictics ,in a smoother-better way
Old 10th March 2019
  #172
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Yes, because of the varying tone, of the source. Well worth a try.
Chris
Old 11th March 2019
  #173
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Do you think that a different tube d give the same brightness but in a smoother-better way?what about the transients with different tubes?
Old 2nd April 2019
  #174
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Made a comparison today with the wa47 and wa251



Was pretty stoked when I heard Warm was releasing 251. Finally got my hands on one and.. well, I am in love! Keep in mind I have never been able to try the real thing. I made a quick shootout next to their version of the 47. Hope it helps you all.

Last edited by camer138; 3rd April 2019 at 12:38 AM..
Old 7th April 2019
  #175
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camer138 View Post


Was pretty stoked when I heard Warm was releasing 251. Finally got my hands on one and.. well, I am in love! Keep in mind I have never been able to try the real thing. I made a quick shootout next to their version of the 47. Hope it helps you all.
What's that sound when you're singing Amazing Grace? Thought I heard it on both mics. Maybe the pre was overloading or something.
Old 8th April 2019
  #176
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camer138 View Post


Was pretty stoked when I heard Warm was releasing 251. Finally got my hands on one and.. well, I am in love! Keep in mind I have never been able to try the real thing. I made a quick shootout next to their version of the 47. Hope it helps you all.
I thought the acoustic guitar portion was really helpful. I had the WA47 in for demo last year and thought it was a pretty nice mic. I was so fixated on finding a vocal mic that I don't know if I ever threw it up on acoustic guitar.
I liked both mics on your guitar. The 47 was more retro sounding, and the 251 was nice and pleasant. I could work with either of those sounds.
It was really hard to guage how they sounded on your voice. There was definitely some type of unpleasant distortion going on, and quite a bit of sibilance. Having worked with the 47 last year, I know it's not very prone to sibilance at all. Maybe try backing off the mics a little. I'd also employ a pop filter.
Thanks for posting!
Edit - It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like there's an untreated wall right behind the mics, in close proximity. The wall reflections may be part of that unpleasant sound, which is apparent on both mics, but more emphasized on the 251.
Old 8th April 2019
  #177
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camer138's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
I thought the acoustic guitar portion was really helpful. I had the WA47 in for demo last year and thought it was a pretty nice mic. I was so fixated on finding a vocal mic that I don't know if I ever threw it up on acoustic guitar.
I liked both mics on your guitar. The 47 was more retro sounding, and the 251 was nice and pleasant. I could work with either of those sounds.
It was really hard to guage how they sounded on your voice. There was definitely some type of unpleasant distortion going on, and quite a bit of sibilance. Having worked with the 47 last year, I know it's not very prone to sibilance at all. Maybe try backing off the mics a little. I'd also employ a pop filter.
Thanks for posting!
Edit - It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like there's an untreated wall right behind the mics, in close proximity. The wall reflections may be part of that unpleasant sound, which is apparent on both mics, but more emphasized on the 251.

Thanks for the input. Behind the mic is my computer setup with all 4 walls surrounding it treated, behind me are 2 6 foot panels as well as a couple clouds on the ceiling above the mics, though there is a bit of bare wall beside the mic as you noted. Which perhaps I should do something about.

It's quite embarrassing, but it seems the distortion you are referring to is my natural vocal distortion. It sounds better in a rock mix with reverb I swear. Hahah. Maybe not the best type of vocal to use on a gospel song but I want to throw in as many vocal elements into as short of a clip as possible.

My pop filter had been on order for a couple weeks now.. I got too excited with these new mics though and just tried to avoid plosives the best i could. Sibillance is obviously still an issue though.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Last edited by camer138; 8th April 2019 at 06:36 AM..
Old 8th April 2019
  #178
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camer138 View Post
It's quite embarrassing, but it seems the distortion you and the poster above are referring to is my natural vocal distortion. It sounds better in a rock mix with reverb I swear. Hahah. Maybe not the best type of vocal to use on a gospel song but I want to throw in as many vocal elements into as short of a clip as possible.
Nothing to be embarrassed about. It takes courage to post things and put yourself out there. There are too many people who like to criticize others yet never post any samples of their own.
I think your voice has a lot of good natural qualities, none of which are emphasized with the type of vocal distortion present in those takes.
Old 8th April 2019
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Nothing to be embarrassed about. It takes courage to post things and put yourself out there. There are too many people who like to criticize others yet never post any samples of their own.
I think your voice has a lot of good natural qualities, none of which are emphasized with the type of vocal distortion present in those takes.

+1000 Yep critics like to criticize, takes balls to put your stuff out there!
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