FabFilter releases FabFilter Pro-Q 3 equalizer plug-in with dynamic EQ - Page 15 - Gearslutz
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FabFilter releases FabFilter Pro-Q 3 equalizer plug-in with dynamic EQ
Old 24th April 2019
  #421
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Just out of curiosity, I tested the THD of some of the EQ plugins I had - obviously the clean/digital ones (I've got only few).
test done at 44 Khz in Plugin Doctor, no latency, linear phase or any HQ mode engaged in the plugins...

Two of of them (TDR SlickEQ in clean linear mode and Native Instrument solid EQ) show the exact same measures as ProQ3 (with no equing engaged), which means around -182 db THD and -153 dB THD+N.

Two others show a bit more but I guess they are supposed to be a little colored by design (SPL Free Ranger, Elysia Niveau Filter). Or maybe they are just free and cheap (I never use them anyway)...

But only one show absolutely no THD (or almost : around -300db), exactly like Equick : the free Sonimus SonEQ (obviously, with no drive engaged)...

Again, I don't want to use these measurements as an argument regarding quality, but I would like to understand why clean digital EQs (which are supposed to sound the same because it's supposed to be only copy and paste of well known algorithms) show different measures of THD - some of them showing the "exact same" value ?

Ok, I understand it can be the result of errors/truncation (as Stinkyfingers said), but if so, it means all digital EQ are not sounding the same and the code they use is not the same, because some of them show more errors/truncation than others...
A free EQ being cleaner than a 150€ one !

It's just a theoretical question. I bought ProQ3 already and I'm sure I will use with great profit in my work...
But I'm surprised this fact was never taken into account (to my knowledge at least) in the debate about digital EQ sounding the same...
And maybe (too) I want to justificate my ears : I truly found Equick much more transparent than others while testing it few months ago. It has just less features, options and stability than Pro Q3 (I had some issues with Equick in Live)...
If you think you're hearing any difference due to thd differences between all the eq's you tested you're fooling yourself. Typical GS rant about things that don't matter in the real world that not even so-called 'golden ears' can hear.
Old 24th April 2019
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
If you think you're hearing any difference due to thd differences between all the eq's you tested you're fooling yourself. Typical GS rant about things that don't matter in the real world that not even so-called 'golden ears' can hear.
I don't pretend I can hear the THD noise, and I'm sure I couldn't recognize Eq plugins in blind test.
I'm just curious why digital Eqs (that should all sound the same because all algorithms are supposed to be the same) show different results in this area - results that could have influence on the sound I'm not aware of.
I don't have bat ears and I don't think the THD level change anything per se, but I wonder why the differences...

And by the way, I'm pretty sure I can hear tiny difference between different EQs when I use them for the same task, Equick sounding more clear to my ears than others (I didn't compare it with Pro Q3, and don't plan to spend time to do so). The more apparent (to me) being on the HPF...

I noticed yet that EQ8 (Live stock EQ) sounds a bit more dirty/blurred than Equick : on some sources it's better, on most others it's not.
Old 24th April 2019
  #423
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
I don't pretend I can hear the THD noise, and I'm sure I couldn't recognize Eq plugins in blind test.
I'm just curious why digital Eqs (that should all sound the same because all algorithms are supposed to be the same) show different results in this area - results that could have influence on the sound I'm not aware of.
I don't have bat ears and I don't think the THD level change anything per se, but I wonder why the differences...

And by the way, I'm pretty sure I can hear tiny difference between different EQs when I use them for the same task, Equick sounding more clear to my ears than others (I didn't compare it with Pro Q3, and don't plan to spend time to do so). The more apparent (to me) being on the HPF...

I noticed yet that EQ8 (Live stock EQ) sounds a bit more dirty/blurred than Equick : on some sources it's better, on most others it's not.
I don't know where you get this 'all algos are supposed to be the same' business. Sure math is math but not everyone models the same eq and that's where the sound differences happen. Never said one can't tell the differences between eq's. But again you're wasting time worrying about something that doesn't matter. Hell I'm a retired EE who used to work in aerospace and even I don't care about those numbers.
Old 25th April 2019
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I don't know where you get this 'all algos are supposed to be the same' business. Sure math is math but not everyone models the same eq and that's where the sound differences happen. Never said one can't tell the differences between eq's. But again you're wasting time worrying about something that doesn't matter. Hell I'm a retired EE who used to work in aerospace and even I don't care about those numbers.
Learning about the way the tools are made, I learn about the tools and how to use them.

There is a long time debate around here about the digital Eqs (I don't speak about vintage emulations) : they are supposed to sound all the same (because math is math) and anybody is supposed to be able to null a stock Daw EQ with any other digital EQ by just spending time matching the curves.

Just take a look there :
Digital EQ Fact & Myth.

The idea is : what about paying for a digital EQ if your stock Live or Logic one sounds absolutely the same (you just need to match the Q and curves, and it's done).

My ears tell me there are only tiny differences of quality, but those exist.
So I just want to understand the reason behind it by getting some infos about the way my tools are made.

The same with compressors : it helps me to know some technical things about the tool, because just relying on your ears you know when it sounds good but you don't know how to get quickly to this point. So it's interesting to understand why it saturates, why it's pumping, how the attack and release times can interact, the difference between lin and log modes etc. etc.
It's interesting too to hear some pros speaking about compression (not about abstract numbers, but about the feeling behind the technical) and telling you it's not so much about leveling, but about shape, groove and/or interaction between isolated elements.
In my opinion, knowledge feeds the tweaking hand and the judging ears...

If you don't care about under the hood numbers, no problem for me.

But it interest me to know that noise can be produced by truncation with just an EQ doing nothing (case with most of the EQs I tested, Pro Q3 included). So I guess with fancy eq curves and 60 instances in a mix, it could produce something noticeable...
This gives me an explanation (that may be false - I don't take it for granted) of what I can feel in a vague way. And some indications about when to use Pro Q3 and when to use Equick...
Old 25th April 2019
  #425
Here for the gear
 

Hey guys,

due to their 15th anniversary sale I finally decided to jump on the Fabfilter train, too. I will buy one of their bundles this weekend. Amongst other things I was reading through all 15 pages here in this thread and there is often a 10% voucher code mentioned for new customers... which is gifted by existing FF consumers.

1. Is this voucher valid for the sale and 2. is anybody so kind to send me such a code?

Thanks in advance!
Old 25th April 2019
  #426
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcRandom View Post
Hey guys,

due to their 15th anniversary sale I finally decided to jump on the Fabfilter train, too. I will buy one of their bundles this weekend. Amongst other things I was reading through all 15 pages here in this thread and there is often a 10% voucher code mentioned for new customers... which is gifted by existing FF consumers.

1. Is this voucher valid for the sale and 2. is anybody so kind to send me such a code?

Thanks in advance!
I can send you a code. It’s done thru email so PM me your email address.
Old 25th April 2019
  #427
Here for the gear
 

Many thanks, Dave.

There was already another friendly guy who sent me a pm.
Old 25th April 2019
  #428
Gear Addict
 

I had to grab the Pro MB during the sale. With Saturn, Q3 and MB, I'm a FabFilter convert now
Old 26th April 2019
  #429
unr
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Learning about the way the tools are made, I learn about the tools and how to use them.

There is a long time debate around here about the digital Eqs (I don't speak about vintage emulations) : they are supposed to sound all the same (because math is math) and anybody is supposed to be able to null a stock Daw EQ with any other digital EQ by just spending time matching the curves.

Just take a look there :
Digital EQ Fact & Myth.

The idea is : what about paying for a digital EQ if your stock Live or Logic one sounds absolutely the same (you just need to match the Q and curves, and it's done).

My ears tell me there are only tiny differences of quality, but those exist.
So I just want to understand the reason behind it by getting some infos about the way my tools are made.

The same with compressors : it helps me to know some technical things about the tool, because just relying on your ears you know when it sounds good but you don't know how to get quickly to this point. So it's interesting to understand why it saturates, why it's pumping, how the attack and release times can interact, the difference between lin and log modes etc. etc.
It's interesting too to hear some pros speaking about compression (not about abstract numbers, but about the feeling behind the technical) and telling you it's not so much about leveling, but about shape, groove and/or interaction between isolated elements.
In my opinion, knowledge feeds the tweaking hand and the judging ears...

If you don't care about under the hood numbers, no problem for me.

But it interest me to know that noise can be produced by truncation with just an EQ doing nothing (case with most of the EQs I tested, Pro Q3 included). So I guess with fancy eq curves and 60 instances in a mix, it could produce something noticeable...
This gives me an explanation (that may be false - I don't take it for granted) of what I can feel in a vague way. And some indications about when to use Pro Q3 and when to use Equick...
I had to learn the hard way, that there are significant differences between EQ models. You can't always use Linear Phase. It killed my transients/introduced pre-ringing. But I really heard it some time later, when comparing the models directly. Had to redo some mixes :(

Dan Worall did this video for FabFilter about the models in Pro-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKabAQQsPQ

And there is even more truth to that.
If you look in the EQ options of Q3 or Equilibrium you will find a lot of parameters which do have an impact on the sound. More so in Equilibrium, where you can influence the pre- and post ringing of the FIR models.
If you don't know what you're doing there you can kill the vibe of the whole track (as I had to learn before).

Also there are several kind of EQs out there where most (or the best) have different approaches to curve design, usability design, alias prevention/oversampling etc.
Old 30th April 2019
  #430
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screentan's Avatar
 

Can the 10% referral codes be used at online stores like Audio Deluxe or only at the FabFilter site? Would someone be kind enough to PM one to me please?
Old 30th April 2019
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screentan View Post
Can the 10% referral codes be used at online stores like Audio Deluxe or only at the FabFilter site? Would someone be kind enough to PM one to me please?
You can only use the discount on the FabFilter website. I can send you one if you want still though
Old 30th April 2019
  #432
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screentan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notheorem729 View Post
You can only use the discount on the FabFilter website. I can send you one if you want still though
Thanks for this and to the others that sent me a PM. Looks like Pro Q3 will be 1c cheaper at Audio Deluxe as they apply an additional promotional discount on the already discounted price when it is added to the cart.
Old 1st May 2019
  #433
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by screentan View Post
Thanks for this and to the others that sent me a PM. Looks like Pro Q3 will be 1c cheaper at Audio Deluxe as they apply an additional promotional discount on the already discounted price when it is added to the cart.
But AD doesn't discount based on how many other Fabfilter plugins you mat have.
Old 1st May 2019
  #434
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I was just trying out the presets Mix General Purpose Balancing 1 & 2. They both have a low shelf that is assigned to R. No low shelf EQ on L for some reason? At first I thought the EQ must be set to MS and cutting lows from the sides but then the eq has Mid and Side selection options on the bands so wouldn't they rather use these? I'm a bit confused at what it is set to do on the lows in these presets by using R?
Old 1st May 2019
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screentan View Post
I was just trying out the presets Mix General Purpose Balancing 1 & 2. They both have a low shelf that is assigned to R. No low shelf EQ on L for some reason? At first I thought the EQ must be set to MS and cutting lows from the sides but then the eq has Mid and Side selection options on the bands so wouldn't they rather use these? I'm a bit confused at what it is set to do on the lows in these presets by using R?
Either you've suffered from a bug or the presets have become broken on your end. Those are my presets and they are working 100% correctly here. The low shelf is a split L/R dynamic band with identical settings on both. Basically the idea here is to be unlinked/dual-mono dynamic processing of the lows (static boost of about 2.5dB with dynamic gain reduction of about 3.5dB).

Have you tried doing a factory reset of the presets? NOTE: Make sure you backup any of your own first!!!

If the factory reset doesn't give you a working preset then let me know and I'll post the original presets that are as intended.
Old 1st May 2019
  #436
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This is how the preset Mix General Purpose Balancing 1 looks like on my install:



Old 1st May 2019
  #437
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screentan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Either you've suffered from a bug or the presets have become broken on your end. Those are my presets and they are working 100% correctly here. The low shelf is a split L/R dynamic band with identical settings on both. Basically the idea here is to be unlinked/dual-mono dynamic processing of the lows (static boost of about 2.5dB with dynamic gain reduction of about 3.5dB).

Have you tried doing a factory reset of the presets? NOTE: Make sure you backup any of your own first!!!

If the factory reset doesn't give you a working preset then let me know and I'll post the original presets that are as intended.
Thanks bmanic. I just installed the plugin for the first time and haven't changed or saved any presets yet. What prompted my question and I should have mentioned this in my original post is when I click on the node to reveal the settings this particular node is set to Right and I couldn't see a corresponding node operating for Left at this frequency. This is what puzzled me but are you saying that "Right" means it is set to dual mono? The tooltip doesn't mention dual mono. See second screenshot.
Attached Thumbnails
FabFilter releases FabFilter Pro-Q 3 equalizer plug-in with dynamic EQ-pro-q3.jpg   FabFilter releases FabFilter Pro-Q 3 equalizer plug-in with dynamic EQ-pro-q3-2.jpg  

Last edited by screentan; 2nd May 2019 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: update
Old 2nd May 2019
  #438
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If you look closely at the actual graphics, you can clearly see 'L' and 'R' symbols. If you click one of them, you get that individual channel. Now try to click the other one with the mouse. It can be a bit tricky as they are laid right on top of each other but you should be able to see the separate L and R "name flags" of the node. Or you can also go from one node to another with the arrow keys next to the number of the EQ band. In the 2nd image you posted, you've selected EQ node nr 9. I suspect the LEFT channel is number 8.

This is what dual-mono means.. they are two completely independent separate nodes with their own settings, thus providing individual left and right (aka dual-mono) dynamic EQing (aka frequency specific compression). This means that both are "compressing" individually and thus not affecting each other but because they are set to same settings they work kind of together in most cases.

If I would have used a single low-shelf stereo band then they would be 100% stereo-linked, meaning that any triggering signal panned to either left or right would make the whole low shelf compress.

I almost always prefer dual-mono when it comes to compression, thus many of my presets that target the mixbus are setup like this.

Most of my presets are based on real world mixing projects so it's possible this one was taken rather directly from a session where I had it setup like this.


NOTE: If you want to convert them back to a single stereo band, simply select either the left or right node and delete it. Then select the remaining one and change it to stereo.

Equally, if you ever want to make something dual-mono in Pro-Q3, then simply select the stereo node in question and select "split" or hit the scissor icon.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #439
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screentan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
If you look closely at the actual graphics, you can clearly see 'L' and 'R' symbols. If you click one of them, you get that individual channel. Now try to click the other one with the mouse. It can be a bit tricky as they are laid right on top of each other but you should be able to see the separate L and R "name flags" of the node. Or you can also go from one node to another with the arrow keys next to the number of the EQ band. In the 2nd image you posted, you've selected EQ node nr 9. I suspect the LEFT channel is number 8.

This is what dual-mono means.. they are two completely independent separate nodes with their own settings, thus providing individual left and right (aka dual-mono) dynamic EQing (aka frequency specific compression). This means that both are "compressing" individually and thus not affecting each other but because they are set to same settings they work kind of together in most cases.

If I would have used a single low-shelf stereo band then they would be 100% stereo-linked, meaning that any triggering signal panned to either left or right would make the whole low shelf compress.

I almost always prefer dual-mono when it comes to compression, thus many of my presets that target the mixbus are setup like this.

Most of my presets are based on real world mixing projects so it's possible this one was taken rather directly from a session where I had it setup like this.


NOTE: If you want to convert them back to a single stereo band, simply select either the left or right node and delete it. Then select the remaining one and change it to stereo.

Equally, if you ever want to make something dual-mono in Pro-Q3, then simply select the stereo node in question and select "split" or hit the scissor icon.
Thanks for the detailed and helpful explanation bmanic. It makes perfect sense to me now. Nice presets these.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #440
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
I love it that you can demo most stuff.
I use raving reports as a start and then download the demo
And compare it to what I have.
So very often I decided that I don't need it, then.

This all said. I love my Q3. An excellent eq got better.
Sonically it hasn't changed
I find this happens with virtually every Audio Acustica Plug. I demo them, they sound good, the novelty wears offf roughly halfway through the demo period, and in the end I can conclude that they sound great but aren’t worth the extra dough to replace what I already have.
Old 16th June 2019
  #441
Here for the gear
 

Does anyone still have a discount code for this? Thanks!!
Old 16th June 2019
  #442
M2E
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Hey Everyone, if anyone wants a 10% discount on fabfilter plugins, send me your email address.

Marc
Old 3 weeks ago
  #443
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
You're looking at Q3 a little too narrowly I think. Dynamic eq isn't used all the time and there's a lot more in this version than just that. But believe me - you probably could use a dynamic eq a lot more than you think. It's a great tool to have in the toolbox. Witness the fact I have four - Pro Q3, HOFA IQ-EQ, Waves F6 and bx-dynamic eq. Each serves their purpose well.
In what situations do you choose F6 over Pro-Q3? Do you prefer the UI in some situations with all parameters shown at once, or do you find sometimes you want a slower attack or release that Pro-Q3 doesn't offer? Just curious. I have Pro-Q3 and am considering F6 as a freebie because I bought some other Waves plugs.

Thanks!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #444
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrashanti View Post
In what situations do you choose F6 over Pro-Q3? Do you prefer the UI in some situations with all parameters shown at once, or do you find sometimes you want a slower attack or release that Pro-Q3 doesn't offer? Just curious. I have Pro-Q3 and am considering F6 as a freebie because I bought some other Waves plugs.

Thanks!
I'll use F6 over Pro Q3 when I want the Waves sound - the gui means nothing to me. I can work easily in either although I do find the F6 gui a little too busy and prefer the cleaner Pro Q3.

I find the Pro Q3 has a cleaner sound and I like the options for the EQ style in it.

Just like regular EQ each dynamic EQ has it's own sound. The HOFA IQ-EQ has a yet different sound than either of the above 2.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #445
Gear Head
 
vsignet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
By the way, does all these visual features don't interfere with the ear ?
I mean, all the visualization stuff and fabulous interactive graphs, is there not a risk of bypassing too much the hearing process ?
Yes it does. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0006230

It is interesting when people here obsessively mull over extremely trivial nuances in EQ DSP and never consider the main elephant in the room that is the visual overload in plugins interferring with their decision making and hearing.

I'm puzzled why this aspect is not discussed more often.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #446
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsignet View Post
Yes it does. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0006230

It is interesting when people here obsessively mull over extremely trivial nuances in EQ DSP and never consider the main elephant in the room that is the visual overload in plugins interferring with their decision making and hearing.

I'm puzzled why this aspect is not discussed more often.
It has been discussed ad nauseum throughout the years.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #447
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsignet View Post
Yes it does. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0006230

It is interesting when people here obsessively mull over extremely trivial nuances in EQ DSP and never consider the main elephant in the room that is the visual overload in plugins interferring with their decision making and hearing.

I'm puzzled why this aspect is not discussed more often.
Maybe because it doesn't bother a lot of people. The visual part doesn't get in the way of my making decisions or hearing. I'd be lost without a waveform analyzer on an EQ as I've grown accustomed to having one - that's what I can't stand about McDSP eq- no analyzer. Elsewise I like their eq's sound.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsignet View Post
Yes it does. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0006230

It is interesting when people here obsessively mull over extremely trivial nuances in EQ DSP and never consider the main elephant in the room that is the visual overload in plugins interferring with their decision making and hearing.

I'm puzzled why this aspect is not discussed more often.
Yes all the senses affect one another to some extent to form your own individual version of "reality" in your brain and we still don't know to what extent, and how it differs across individuals.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
It has been discussed ad nauseum throughout the years.
Agreed.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #450
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsignet View Post
Yes it does. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0006230

It is interesting when people here obsessively mull over extremely trivial nuances in EQ DSP and never consider the main elephant in the room that is the visual overload in plugins interferring with their decision making and hearing.

I'm puzzled why this aspect is not discussed more often.
an interesting read and topic - so here‘s the conclusion, guys:
for an even more emotional EQ experience we have to close our eyes 😉😉😉
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