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Acustica Audio releases TAUPE: "The king of sample-based analog tape plugins"
Old 13th November 2018
  #451
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by badassaudio View Post
First time I demo anything from Acoustica. Congratulations as these eqs are just amazing. Best eqs I have ever used itb. GUI is also nice.

However I had some difficulties navigating on your website - it is very confusing and installing the demo made me waste a lot of time. Whoever designed it didn't think like a customer. You should certainly do something about it.

The tape emulation sounds good and has the potential to be something special but I still get some of these funny sounds people call lazers and to me your explanation of the problem smells fishy.

I work with DSP and I just cannot see how you could possibly get these sounds from a convolution software because of noise. To me it sounds more like you have a timing problem. Something is still definitely wrong there and you should fix it if you want a quality product. Fix it and I will buy it.

But with this sound I will certainly look at the eqs you emulate. TBH there are too many of options and the names of plug-ins are just useless to anyone new to your company but the sound is really good.
in the very first post, in our product page and, more important, in our user manual we explained the easy procedure for installing things, and this is the reason why people find it straightforward.
You just download aquarius, you add trials using a coupon (LASTTRIALS) you see the product there, push the install button and that's all.
We support the previous installation procedure for experienced users: if you try to buy the trial product from our page it is way less straightforward. If you decide to authorize products manually even less.
For trying our products today you don't need our website at all: you download aquarius and you can even register a new username from there.


About the second question, the timing issue is introduced by wow/flutter, exactly. It is much more evident if it is propagated in the noisy tail. As soon as you trim the noise out you minimize issues by a large percentage.
For the sake of knowledge, wow/flutter is there also if you sample things from the repro head. We minimized it quite a lot already, if you try to sample an otari 90 using standard convolution techniques you would get impressive issues OR low resolution for very short testtones. We need long testtones anyway, since in our techniques we use convolution as operator, but it is nonlinear convolution and we need resolution. We'll add other denoising techniques though, but I see that almost all customers are now happy for the exception of an old 50s device, which had an incredible timing issue, as expected.
Old 13th November 2018
  #452
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Simon1176f's Avatar
 

Giancarlo, Zaphod, all at Acustica,

You guys are some crazy wizards. Been curious on and off for years. The plug that really got me was Azure. As in, set a setting from instinct and it works like voodoo. Now this. I use a big analogue rig which I mix into, like a lot of GSlutz here, but this thing on the master bus is F'd up. My main focus (simply because I (and all of us) use converters) is the top end...... Thankyou. A0 is my favourite.

Hey to all the forum rats, we all know deep down you love each other. You all should collaborate!

S
Old 13th November 2018
  #453
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
in the very first post, in our product page and, more important, in our user manual we explained the easy procedure for installing things, and this is the reason why people find it straightforward.
You just download aquarius, you add trials using a coupon (LASTTRIALS) you see the product there, push the install button and that's all.
We support the previous installation procedure for experienced users: if you try to buy the trial product from our page it is way less straightforward. If you decide to authorize products manually even less.
For trying our products today you don't need our website at all: you download aquarius and you can even register a new username from there.


About the second question, the timing issue is introduced by wow/flutter, exactly. It is much more evident if it is propagated in the noisy tail. As soon as you trim the noise out you minimize issues by a large percentage.
For the sake of knowledge, wow/flutter is there also if you sample things from the repro head. We minimized it quite a lot already, if you try to sample an otari 90 using standard convolution techniques you would get impressive issues OR low resolution for very short testtones. We need long testtones anyway, since in our techniques we use convolution as operator, but it is nonlinear convolution and we need resolution. We'll add other denoising techniques though, but I see that almost all customers are now happy for the exception of an old 50s device, which had an incredible timing issue, as expected.
Thanks for the answer. This is much clearer now. I hope that you can find a way to reduce this further.

For now I will trial some of your eqs.

By the way on many tapes there is a difference in the sound between the sync and repro heads. I hope this was taken into account during your measurements.
Old 13th November 2018
  #454
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by badassaudio View Post
Thanks for the answer. This is much clearer now. I hope that you can find a way to reduce this further.

For now I will trial some of your eqs.

By the way on many tapes there is a difference in the sound between the sync and repro heads. I hope this was taken into account during your measurements.
in most of tapes the difference is huge. You can experiment in this plugin, for example in C6 the sync is the "source", the repro is the "tape". The source is not affected by wow/flutter, and more important, by noise.
Old 13th November 2018
  #455
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doom64's Avatar
For those new to Acustica products (since this thread is getting a lot of hype) refer to this video:



Aquarius is easy to navigate but there are a few quirks. The video shows the older version of Aquarius, but most information still applies.

--------------
@ zaphod : I hope you saw my TAUPE bug report Acustica Audio releases TAUPE: "The king of sample-based analog tape plugins"
Old 13th November 2018
  #456
Here for the gear
 

I have the latest trial version and the 'laser' (British English spelling of 'lazer') is clearly audible.

I simply cannot square the hyperbole coming from Acustica with the fact that Taupe produces this horrible artefact.

You cannot say how your products are all about subtle analog realism and brush off the fact that it adds this weird digital noise. (Saying that this is the natural sound of tape is a joke).

It totally undermines my confidence in any of the products, which is sad because on paper they promise so much.
Old 13th November 2018
  #457
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Simon1176f's Avatar
 

I think elements of wow and flutter have random AND predictable traits based on the physics of the mechanics of a given machine (pinch roller size, capstan size, how much tape is on each reel at a given time, etc) . Extremely hard to capture/model the complete behaviour of a
machine unless you're happy with LFO and RND based on a computer generated outcome, given Acustica's strive for exactness.

Point is, I'm glad you didn't do wow/flutter. Love that fact.

Last edited by Simon1176f; 13th November 2018 at 02:08 PM..
Old 13th November 2018
  #458
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Simon1176f's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GurningDan View Post
I have the latest trial version and the 'laser' (British English spelling of 'lazer') is clearly audible.

I simply cannot square the hyperbole coming from Acustica with the fact that Taupe produces this horrible artefact.

You cannot say how your products are all about subtle analog realism and brush off the fact that it adds this weird digital noise. (Saying that this is the natural sound of tape is a joke).

It totally undermines my confidence in any of the products, which is sad because on paper they promise so much.
It'll be fixed. You tried any of their other products? I love the fact there are teething issues. It's a real world with real unknowns.
Old 13th November 2018
  #459
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GurningDan View Post
I have the latest trial version and the 'laser' (British English spelling of 'lazer') is clearly audible.

I simply cannot square the hyperbole coming from Acustica with the fact that Taupe produces this horrible artefact.

You cannot say how your products are all about subtle analog realism and brush off the fact that it adds this weird digital noise. (Saying that this is the natural sound of tape is a joke).

It totally undermines my confidence in any of the products, which is sad because on paper they promise so much.
I'm not totally sure about this, but I suspect that the latest optimizations in the commercial release of Taupe haven't made it yet in the Trial version.

Can anybody confirm that?
Old 13th November 2018
  #460
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GurningDan View Post
I have the latest trial version and the 'laser' (British English spelling of 'lazer') is clearly audible.

I simply cannot square the hyperbole coming from Acustica with the fact that Taupe produces this horrible artefact.

You cannot say how your products are all about subtle analog realism and brush off the fact that it adds this weird digital noise. (Saying that this is the natural sound of tape is a joke).

It totally undermines my confidence in any of the products, which is sad because on paper they promise so much.
Sorry to hear that. No audible lazers here. Which programs are you experiencing this?
Old 13th November 2018
  #461
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Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
It depends what you have on those channels. I barely can run a dozen on fairly capable Ryzen 1800X. I couldn't work on a laptop having my requirements.
It s not a question of power , but how well the integration is done and the system latency ...a lot of variables enter the equation ...all this to say that a laptop when well choosen can be a beast ...
Old 13th November 2018
  #462
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jonat's Avatar
 

Sounds and looks good guys
Old 13th November 2018
  #463
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I'll be checking out of this thread for a while I get some work done. IF I were to bite on TAUPE, for mixing, after extensive testing I've settled on B3 - MCI JH-24, mono at 30 IPS on tracks and C7 - ReVox A77, stereo at 7.5 IPS (IEC) on the mixbus for a lot of my work. Im sure I could mix and match as there are others I like certain instruments but keeping it simple my low end is preserved but tastefully adds some beef and knock while taming and rounding off the harsh edges especially from bright snappy snares samples so prevalent in today's productions. And of course glue and compression. I can then add top end to brighten things back up but its much smoother sounding.

While doing the A/B I kept choosing the original but my ears could noticeably listen to the TAUPE version for basically forever while my ears were fatiguing quickly with the original which I eventually realized sounded better due to more top end which also gave the perception of louder. Hmmm, interesting. As I kept listening, I could still hear all the information present from the original, it just sat further back which I can deal with. This also directly affected my mixing process with ease and a lengthier mix session. I can work longer on my headphones when needed.

In regard to the eqs, I can finally distinguish between A and B a bit more. A has more punch and maybe is a tick ballsier while B sounds rounder. B reminds me of the Harrison's LegacyQ or the Harrison tone in general which is interesting. Round and slick. C still gives me vibes closer toward Ebony's 411 but with more to it. Probably not as wide in the spectrum but like a thicker punchier more forward cousin. No preferences yet though. Just observations. Going ghost until Nov. 23 when I'll make that big choice.
Old 13th November 2018
  #464
Gear Nut
Yeah, same for my mixbus and what I did! I'm adding back top end via TAUPES eq or Diamond Color EQ.

C7 is working the best for my Hip Hop mixes. On the vocal tracks though I've been going between A0 and A1. D2 sounded great for some Hip Hop styled kicks as well!
Old 13th November 2018
  #465
Gear Maniac
 

Didn't think I needed another Acqua as I already have most of Nebula tapes. Pushing the input is really where Taupe has an edge and having an eq and compressor makes the work flow a lot better. Amazing release!
Old 13th November 2018
  #466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Bay View Post

While doing the A/B I kept choosing the original but my ears could noticeably listen to the TAUPE version for basically forever while my ears were fatiguing quickly with the original which I eventually realized sounded better due to more top end which also gave the perception of louder. Hmmm, interesting. As I kept listening, I could still hear all the information present from the original, it just sat further back which I can deal with. This also directly affected my mixing process with ease and a lengthier mix session. I can work longer on my headphones when needed.
Great read and glad you can describe it so accurately - this crucial part of the tape magic. In practice with tape vs direct i noticed many times at equal volume the tape will sound 'duller', BUT when pushing just 2 dB or so, suddenly the details/transients were back and although gentler/sweeter on the ear, more often than not actually more distinct than before while the whole sounds rounder and just more glorious. AND then i noticed that i can push the tape version 2-4dB more before clipping which even in a DAW can mean not having to use a limiter... and WHAT'S MORE if you turn up the volume on the monitors it just gets better... like in the old vinyl days, and without ear fatigue... the latter is to me the proof the pudding is real!
Old 13th November 2018
  #467
Gear Nut
 
Le Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by excelcruz View Post
Yeah, same for my mixbus and what I did! I'm adding back top end via TAUPES eq or Diamond Color EQ.

C7 is working the best for my Hip Hop mixes. On the vocal tracks though I've been going between A0 and A1. D2 sounded great for some Hip Hop styled kicks as well!
According the BillBoard in 90's a lot of rap, dance and club mix were recorded with the MCI JH24 which have a lot of punch.(B2 B3)

OTARI MTR90 were more used with pop & rnb and 70-80's ampex MM1200 was usefull for rock and pop. The studer 820 was a generalist tape recorder for pop, rap, rnb but more appreciated for rock. ( I'm not surprise by the name " rocky").

The saturn 824 weren't used a lot in the pro studio which prefer ampex, studer, otari & MCI, but I find that the 30ips of the 90210 is nice.

In a lot of records I 've noticed that the studer a800 and a827 were the most used with the ampex 499 and 456 tape.

Revox a77 & more expensive a700 were used by semi-pro and sometimes pro with the a77 (for the portability).

I find very usefull the digital tape (more 2000's): sony DAT (tron) and ADAT XT20(pacman). Pulp fiction excelia cassette deck is a very cool surprise with the same flat caracteristics as tron & pacman.

Taupe is almost a complete collection which only lack for me: studer A800, studer a827, studer a80 , ampex ATR100/102 and panasonic SV3800 DAT.
Old 13th November 2018
  #468
Gear Nut
 
Le Man's Avatar
 

For techno I 've found that use the taupe eco mode can preserve the fast transients and at the same time enhance the sound.
Old 13th November 2018
  #469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon1176f View Post
Giancarlo, Zaphod, all at Acustica,

You guys are some crazy wizards. Been curious on and off for years. The plug that really got me was Azure. As in, set a setting from instinct and it works like voodoo. Now this. I use a big analogue rig which I mix into, like a lot of GSlutz here, but this thing on the master bus is F'd up. My main focus (simply because I (and all of us) use converters) is the top end...... Thankyou. A0 is my favourite.

Hey to all the forum rats, we all know deep down you love each other. You all should collaborate!

S
I wonder if there are many threads with such a rich array of knowledgeable folks with tons of experience writing such inspiring reports. Something special going on for sure... don't know Azure and this is also only my second Acustica plugin, but what you write about converters and top end is... YES!
So glad to hear it does that to you too.
Old 13th November 2018
  #470
Gear Head
 
Glaca's Avatar
This is a fantastic release. It makes you study the SOUND, learn the machines, discover, experiment and yes this thread is full of knowledge. it's all together an amazing experience. Taupe allows you to shape the mixes and give them new dimension. Beast product !!!
Old 14th November 2018
  #471
I bought it when it first came out and finally installed it today. I've been remixing a project and it's almost done. I had been working on the kick drum, so that's where I started. I own VTM, reel2reel, UAD Studer A800, UAD Ampex, Tape, Tapedesk, Kramer Ampex and Abbey Road Studer, but I always find myself going back to VTM 16-track 2" @ 15 ips and VTM 2-track @ 30 ips. So, that's what is on everything. I really like the weight of the 16-track 2". I have it first and it really takes eq well.
I substituted Taupe Ampex MM1200 @ 15 ips. I really liked using the MCI eq to shape it. Nice heft to the low end. Nice snap. Very big. The VTM was big also. I kept going back and forth. The Taupe kick just fit in the mix better. I can't explain it. Soloed, they sounded close, but there was some "magic dust" on Taupe. In the mix, it was a huge differnce. Tried it on a rock guitar next. Didn't like the 15 ips. Tried 30 ips...great. Checked the MCI 24 track at 15 and 30, went back to the Ampex MM1200 at 30 ips. Replaced the 2-track VTM with the Studer A820 at 30 ips on the mixbus...awesome. Really glued things together. It had weight AND definition. I'm really liking this. I'm using Pink2, Viridian, Amethyst, Cream and Gold2 on this project, along with Slate, UAD, Waves, Soundtube and Plugin Alliance. It really sounds GREAT. There is life, depth and a 3d quality that AA adds to the mix. Great tools.
Old 14th November 2018
  #472
Lives for gear
 

I think I'll demo this now. I loved nebulas tape sat. Hopefully this is just as bos 3
Old 14th November 2018
  #473
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon1176f View Post
It'll be fixed. You tried any of their other products? I love the fact there are teething issues. It's a real world with real unknowns.
For those of us making our living with the tools, teething issues are a deal breaker. And by no means should this be expected or forgiven unless it is made VERY CLEAR that the release is a public beta with potential broken elements.
Old 14th November 2018
  #474
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
For those of us making our living with the tools, teething issues are a deal breaker. And by no means should this be expected or forgiven unless it is made VERY CLEAR that the release is a public beta with potential broken elements.
And you truly believe that every piece of software you use is 100% bug-free.
Old 14th November 2018
  #475
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
And you truly believe that every piece of software you use is 100% bug-free.
100% is far from the bugginess I've experienced from Acustica, and from what other users are saying about this release.
Old 14th November 2018
  #476
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon1176f View Post
I think elements of wow and flutter have random AND predictable traits based on the physics of the mechanics of a given machine (pinch roller size, capstan size, how much tape is on each reel at a given time, etc) . Extremely hard to capture/model the complete behaviour of a
machine unless you're happy with LFO and RND based on a computer generated outcome, given Acustica's strive for exactness.

Point is, I'm glad you didn't do wow/flutter. Love that fact.
this is part of the research.
Normally we need years for understanding really a problem and apply a complete solution, like we did for consoles. Meanwhile we need practical solutions which lead to a general consensus on the product. But you are right, research is a never stopping task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon1176f View Post
It'll be fixed. You tried any of their other products? I love the fact there are teething issues. It's a real world with real unknowns.
exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteDal View Post
I'm not totally sure about this, but I suspect that the latest optimizations in the commercial release of Taupe haven't made it yet in the Trial version.

Can anybody confirm that?
The trial version in aquarius is updated. I'm not sure about legacy installers, if any

Quote:
Originally Posted by excelcruz View Post
Yeah, same for my mixbus and what I did! I'm adding back top end via TAUPES eq or Diamond Color EQ.

C7 is working the best for my Hip Hop mixes. On the vocal tracks though I've been going between A0 and A1. D2 sounded great for some Hip Hop styled kicks as well!
I really love A0/A1. Good tip about C7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplay View Post
Didn't think I needed another Acqua as I already have most of Nebula tapes. Pushing the input is really where Taupe has an edge and having an eq and compressor makes the work flow a lot better. Amazing release!
Just THANK YOU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Man View Post
According the BillBoard in 90's a lot of rap, dance and club mix were recorded with the MCI JH24 which have a lot of punch.(B2 B3)

OTARI MTR90 were more used with pop & rnb and 70-80's ampex MM1200 was usefull for rock and pop. The studer 820 was a generalist tape recorder for pop, rap, rnb but more appreciated for rock. ( I'm not surprise by the name " rocky").

The saturn 824 weren't used a lot in the pro studio which prefer ampex, studer, otari & MCI, but I find that the 30ips of the 90210 is nice.

In a lot of records I 've noticed that the studer a800 and a827 were the most used with the ampex 499 and 456 tape.

Revox a77 & more expensive a700 were used by semi-pro and sometimes pro with the a77 (for the portability).

I find very usefull the digital tape (more 2000's): sony DAT (tron) and ADAT XT20(pacman). Pulp fiction excelia cassette deck is a very cool surprise with the same flat caracteristics as tron & pacman.

Taupe is almost a complete collection which only lack for me: studer A800, studer a827, studer a80 , ampex ATR100/102 and panasonic SV3800 DAT.
we didn't release a80 cause a mistake.
80, 102 will be featured in next major update for sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaca View Post
This is a fantastic release. It makes you study the SOUND, learn the machines, discover, experiment and yes this thread is full of knowledge. it's all together an amazing experience. Taupe allows you to shape the mixes and give them new dimension. Beast product !!!
Just THANK YOU

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubytopaz View Post
I bought it when it first came out and finally installed it today. I've been remixing a project and it's almost done. I had been working on the kick drum, so that's where I started. I own VTM, reel2reel, UAD Studer A800, UAD Ampex, Tape, Tapedesk, Kramer Ampex and Abbey Road Studer, but I always find myself going back to VTM 16-track 2" @ 15 ips and VTM 2-track @ 30 ips. So, that's what is on everything. I really like the weight of the 16-track 2". I have it first and it really takes eq well.
I substituted Taupe Ampex MM1200 @ 15 ips. I really liked using the MCI eq to shape it. Nice heft to the low end. Nice snap. Very big. The VTM was big also. I kept going back and forth. The Taupe kick just fit in the mix better. I can't explain it. Soloed, they sounded close, but there was some "magic dust" on Taupe. In the mix, it was a huge differnce. Tried it on a rock guitar next. Didn't like the 15 ips. Tried 30 ips...great. Checked the MCI 24 track at 15 and 30, went back to the Ampex MM1200 at 30 ips. Replaced the 2-track VTM with the Studer A820 at 30 ips on the mixbus...awesome. Really glued things together. It had weight AND definition. I'm really liking this. I'm using Pink2, Viridian, Amethyst, Cream and Gold2 on this project, along with Slate, UAD, Waves, Soundtube and Plugin Alliance. It really sounds GREAT. There is life, depth and a 3d quality that AA adds to the mix. Great tools.
Just THANK YOU, especially because you compared taupe to all those software tools, which in sure are nothing short than amazing

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
For those of us making our living with the tools, teething issues are a deal breaker. And by no means should this be expected or forgiven unless it is made VERY CLEAR that the release is a public beta with potential broken elements.
Yes we consider the product consolidated as soon as the presale period ends.
At that point all reported bug fixes are postponed to next release and the product is frozen
We'll change name to "presale" like someone suggested here.
Obviously our tech approach keeps improving, but our engine, being completely brute force has weakness you'll never experience in other competitors, but also strengths. I guess you already know that

The trial version is there, for evaluation purposes.
Old 14th November 2018
  #477
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
100% is far from the bugginess I've experienced from Acustica, and from what other users are saying about this release.
I have not experienced many problems with these plugins.

Win 7 64 Reaper 64

If you are on a mac it could be different.

They don't know how to spread the load evenly across all cores.
Old 14th November 2018
  #478
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wjmwpg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
I have not experienced many problems with these plugins.

Win 7 64 Reaper 64

If you are on a mac it could be different.

They don't know how to spread the load evenly across all cores.
I’m on a Mac and haven’t had issues with any of my Acustica products for years. Rock solid here.
Old 14th November 2018
  #479
Gear Addict
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 

This is the first tape-inspired plugin I've been able to add over a finished full mix and get a definite sense of improvement.

It really does have the textural quality of tape recordings that I love, making things sound just slightly more physical or tangible. I wish I had a better way to explain that feeling, hopefully it makes sense to someone.

The mm1200 is a winner on rock and pop multitracks. Some of the consumer machines are magic on figerpicked guitar or pokey close-mic'd drums. The transient control is really impressive and way beyond what I've heard from earlier core tech/sampling releases.

Try the 351 preamp on guitars - one of my favorite hardware go-tos. The second 351 program really smooths out the 4-5k range while adding fullness and grit. Makes heavy parts even more aggressive yet more comfortable at the same time.

The EQ is just great too - though the tape section takes the spotlight, the A and C EQs are killer - punchy but sweet and "precise enough" for most shaping. The tape + EQ combo makes this a really effective and fast drum channel strip.

Also the improvement in responsiveness makes such a huge difference. Using ZL versions finally feels right. This is a big deal for the UX and will be great for the platform when it rolls out across the whole line.

The amount of time that must've been involved in logistics, sampling and QC is intimidating to think about. But the result is something truly special - an instant classic.
Old 14th November 2018
  #480
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
I’m on a Mac and haven’t had issues with any of my Acustica products for years. Rock solid here.
That's great to hear. Yes. I am not up to date on current OS's and fixes made. It seemed in the past these complaints had a common thread running through them pointing to the platform. If it works today, I would want my machine up to date for sure. I'm a little lazy and these plugs have always ran good on my old 3770k and a 5 year old win 7 64 install.
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