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TC Electronic release two new plug-ins with hardware controllers
Old 2nd October 2018
  #61
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elambo's Avatar
After all this discussion, the question I have is: which *other* plugin EMT250 reverbs sound this good? I'd asked if the Relab VSR24 has a 250 emulation but no one seemed to know. I don't have UA, so that's out.

The TC demo is unquestionably good, but the dongle (and added cost of the hardware) is a dealbreaker. Plugin reverb tonality in 2018 is very impressive, so rather than stew over the merits, or lack thereof, of the TC unit I'd like to know what ELSE we can buy?
Old 2nd October 2018
  #62
Gear Guru
SKNote Rev250
Old 2nd October 2018
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazlermac View Post
What happens in 3yrs when you’re controller fails?
The same thing as when your mixer breaks. Or your car. Or your washing machine: You need to fix it.

That’s how owning stuff works.

I find the whining in this thread about a vendor trying something different for a change annoying. Just buy another 250 clone if you don’t like this one.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #64
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e-are's Avatar
I guess I'm one of few that likes this.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #65
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shatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
I guess I'm one of few that likes this.
I agree, I like it. Will probably end up ordering one.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #66
The Valhalla verbs are incredible.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #67
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick8801 View Post
The Valhalla verbs are incredible.
Which one, Vintage or Plate?
Old 3rd October 2018
  #68
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
I guess I'm one of few that likes this.
Everyone seems to like the sound itself, or at least they aren't not posting that they're not thrilled with it.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #69
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blackcom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
The same thing as when your mixer breaks. Or your car. Or your washing machine: You need to fix it.

That’s how owning stuff works.

I find the whining in this thread about a vendor trying something different for a change annoying. Just buy another 250 clone if you don’t like this one.
Wrong answer. You simply avoid buying products like these. Problem solved.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #70
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
The same thing as when your mixer breaks. Or your car. Or your washing machine: You need to fix it.

That’s how owning stuff works.

I find the whining in this thread about a vendor trying something different for a change annoying. Just buy another 250 clone if you don’t like this one.

It’s not the same at all. This primarily is a plugin. It’s software that “could” be 100% independent of the controller. The controller acts as software protection for the most part!

It would be a big concern “if” I was going to buy either of these new plugins from TC.

Look at it this way; I use a NI Komplete Kontrol controller keyboard. What would the user base say if their Komplete software bundle acted in the same manner as these plugins if you didn’t have the controller connected? Would that be “whining “ too?
Old 3rd October 2018
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazlermac View Post
It’s not the same at all. This primarily is a plugin. It’s software that “could” be 100% independent of the controller. The controller acts as software protection for the most part!
.
It would be a big concern “if” I was going to buy either of these new plugins from TC.

Look at it this way; I use a NI Komplete Kontrol controller keyboard. What would the user base say if their Komplete software bundle acted in the same manner as these plugins if you didn’t have the controller connected? Would that be “whining “ too?
TC Electronic never said this is "primarily a plugin". On the contrary - the marketing info primarily emphasizes the hardware control. Your analogy with NI Komplete Kontrol is irrelevant.

It would actually be more relevant to compare TC to a car maker. The car maker could make an infotainment system that can be detached from the car and work without it. But they don't because the want to sell the whole package. That's their prerogative. And our prerogative is to choose not to buy it.

Personally, I'd be happy to neither own a car nor a reverb controller, partly for the reason you stated: that they sooner or later will break. But I don't complain about vendors building them.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #72
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
TC Electronic never said this is "primarily a plugin". On the contrary - the marketing info primarily emphasizes the hardware control. Your analogy with NI Komplete Kontrol is irrelevant.

It would actually be more relevant to compare TC to a car maker. The car maker could make an infotainment system that can be detached from the car and work without it. But they don't because the want to sell the whole package. That's their prerogative. And our prerogative is to choose not to buy it.

Personally, I'd be happy to neither own a car nor a reverb controller, partly for the reason you stated: that they sooner or later will break. But I don't complain about vendors building them.
Their marketing materials may or may not say certain things about what it is/isn’t. In the real world it’s a software plugin - with a plastic USB controller.

So I personally disagree with your car/info system analogy. I think a more accurate car analogy for the potential issue I called out would go like this: buy a car infotainment system, infotainment system breaks in 5 years time, car company no longer make that model of infotainment system anymore. None of the controls for driving work because of the infotainment system failure (steering, brakes, etc..). And after a few weeks the doors lock shut, and you no longer can get into the car - even you take your suitcase out of the boot/trunk.

Personally I like the idea of having a controller (as long as it doesn’t prohibit the software). Like how other companies have done it - NI for example. I also have Arturia drum controller.

As this is an open forum where potential users can comment on manufacturers products (positively or negatively), I think I’m entitled to be honest in a not “whining” way. These new plugins are over €200 each, not cheap, but you do get a controller with them - so justifiable. However, my personal critic of them is this; 1. If the controller breaks they become useless after a few years. 2. If don’t have the controllers connected, you cannot use the software in a manner that most DAW users would expect.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #73
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

TC doesn't have the best track record for ongoing product support and development, either (poco, spark, etc.).

It's a new day under Behringer/musicgroup... so, who knows what the future holds.

From what I see, the controller is also the copy protection... no ilok on these, right?

I have VSS3 and LM2n that are ilok and the polytune plug-in that isn't, but those are from before the transition.

With the original Korg Legacy, the MS-20 controller was optional from the start... Softube's Console 1 is supposed to be awkwardly fully-functional without the controller, but also uses ilok.

I think it should be OK for everyone to say what they think on this, regardless... they should be listening.

As posted, the price for the 2290 has been cut in Europe... I doubt that would happen if they were selling like hotcakes.

Hopefully elsewhere and the reverb to follow... I say follow the Korg model as many are skeptical even at the lower price.

It's an OK idea, I bet they'd sell more/make more money with option to use ilok and to buy at a reduced price without the controller, have a full on-screen GUI at least when using with ilok, and being able to buy the controller separately, etc.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #74
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shatz's Avatar
Something I haven’t seen yet or was able to find in the manual, but if you have multiple instances of these plugins, is there a way to switch through them using the controller? Or do you have open the plugin to use it and then click on another instance of the plugin?
Old 3rd October 2018
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Which one, Vintage or Plate?
I only have the Vintage, but it’s so diverse, it could be my only reverb. The tails can be incredibly smooth and subtle or way over the top. Eric Valentine is a big fan as well.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #76
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Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shatz View Post
Something I haven’t seen yet or was able to find in the manual, but if you have multiple instances of these plugins, is there a way to switch through them using the controller? Or do you have open the plugin to use it and then click on another instance of the plugin?
Mines also
Old 3rd October 2018
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shatz View Post
Something I haven’t seen yet or was able to find in the manual, but if you have multiple instances of these plugins, is there a way to switch through them using the controller? Or do you have open the plugin to use it and then click on another instance of the plugin?
Go to page 9 in the user manual.

“There are 3 conditions that will result in a “Not connected” status. If another instance of the plug-in already exists on another track, the chain icon will appear yellow with a yellow frame, and the text box will notify you where the plug-in is currently active. Click the chain icon to connect the hardware unit to the new plug-in location. The yellow icon may also appear while the connection is being made between the DVR250 unit and the plug-in, accompanied by “Connecting...” text.
If the hardware unit is disconnected from the computer, but the countdown has not yet expired, a yellow chain icon without the yellow frame will appear.
See “Demo Mode” section for details.
All other “Not connected” states are indicated by a red chain icon. This could happen if the USB cable is disconnected, the DVR250 connection is disrupted, or other issues.
To summarize the connection status possibilities:”

Link: https://media63.music-group.com/medi...50-DT_M_EN.pdf
Old 3rd October 2018
  #78
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shatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazlermac View Post
Go to page 9 in the user manual.

“There are 3 conditions that will result in a “Not connected” status. If another instance of the plug-in already exists on another track, the chain icon will appear yellow with a yellow frame, and the text box will notify you where the plug-in is currently active. Click the chain icon to connect the hardware unit to the new plug-in location. The yellow icon may also appear while the connection is being made between the DVR250 unit and the plug-in, accompanied by “Connecting...” text.
If the hardware unit is disconnected from the computer, but the countdown has not yet expired, a yellow chain icon without the yellow frame will appear.
See “Demo Mode” section for details.
All other “Not connected” states are indicated by a red chain icon. This could happen if the USB cable is disconnected, the DVR250 connection is disrupted, or other issues.
To summarize the connection status possibilities:”

Link: https://media63.music-group.com/medi...50-DT_M_EN.pdf
Thanks!
Old 3rd October 2018
  #79
Gear Maniac
 
angel72bg's Avatar
I have got Reverb 4000 hardware one,and they start to ported the algorithms from it to a Native plugins.
First was VSS3 now DVR250,and we have to expect VSS4,Non -Lin,TS4 and Ambiator to be ported to plugins world.
And ,why not MD3 or MD4.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #80
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
I guess I'm one of few that likes this.
Did you try the demo?
Old 4th October 2018
  #81
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sirthought's Avatar
I like the option of having a hardware controller for these, but only as an option. The plugin should work without the controller.


Unlike a serious studio piece of gear that gets put in a rack or installed in a console, this desktop thing is much more susceptible to damage over time. If it breaks I doubt you'll cheaply get a replacement and it'll be expensive or impossible to repair. Bye bye plugin reverb or delay.
Old 4th October 2018
  #82
Gear Nut
 

interesting that no one has mentioned the empty rooms (ers) 250 emulation as an alternative. emt 250 (hardware) was hands down my favourite reverb. the ers is probably my most used reverb plugin. ers developed and tweaked it over time, by the latest versions it is excellent.

with regards this tc plug, I am very interested but not with the hardware limitations currently attached to it.
Old 4th October 2018
  #83
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason View Post
I am very interested but not with the hardware limitations currently attached to it.
"...but not with the hardware limitations currently attached to it." Good one!
Old 4th October 2018
  #84
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01010110's Avatar
Two more: TC8210-DT and TC1210-DT
Old 4th October 2018
  #85
Gear Guru
I think the real question is if the controller is a more intuitive way of working than a mouse. Reverb is all about nuance, I also don't understand being worried about breaking the controller. Unless you like to throw things in frustration!.....
Old 4th October 2018
  #86
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BadYodeler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
I also don't understand being worried about breaking the controller. Unless you like to throw things in frustration!.....
All it needs is one drunken bass player!
Old 4th October 2018
  #87
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Two more: TC8210-DT and TC1210-DT
Wow! TC are really knocking them out.

They should probably release a dock for the collection to sit in - powered by a single USB cable, or wall wart if the require higher power.
Old 4th October 2018
  #88
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

So stoked on this. I LOVE the controller. I do wish the plugin worked without the controller for various reasons..., but certainly not a deal breaker. Honestly, I would be even happier if the controller was a rackmount device.
Old 5th October 2018
  #89
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Two more: TC8210-DT and TC1210-DT
Huh... just went to see if they had pages up on those yet (those front page images didn't go anywhere yesterday)... now the front page images are gone.

Maybe that was premature... regardless, they looked half the width of the other two.

Anybody discern anything about the 8210 reverb?
Old 8th October 2018
  #90
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Shaggy2039's Avatar
Do these controllers follow the track selected in the DAW or is it a manual selection thing. I've seen too many controllers that don't follow the track and that would be a workflow killer if this was the case here. Otherwise, I love the idea of this.
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