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Denise launch a Brickwall Limiter with a new type of lookahead
Old 10th September 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
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Denise launch a Brickwall Limiter with a new type of lookahead

Hi all, this is Joe from Denise back with another product announcement from our range of plug-ins. The next in our series is a Brickwall limiter which features a new lookahead type feature we are calling 'Fade'...read more below:

USE CASES:

“You are mixing delicate material like vocals or acoustic guitars, but you can’t seem to control your track’s sibilance and transient details.” When compressing or limiting delicate material like vocals and acoustic guitars, artefacts like distortion and breathing-and-pumping can be very obvious. The Denise Brickwall Limiter minimises these artefacts by fading in the required gain reduction, ensuring smooth results while still catching all the peaks, as well as using your track’s crest-factor to adapt its release time to, producing very natural sounding results.

“You are limiting a track, buss-group of a full mix, but the low end distorts before achieving the intended control or loudness.” Because the low end is usually the loudest section of the frequency spectrum, its also the first section that hits a plug-in’s threshold and starts distorting when using a brick wall limiter with zero attack. This is especially true when using short release times as well for the purpose of optimising loudness. Because of its ‘fade’ feature, the Denise Brickwall Limiter lets you limit low heavy tracks at zero attack with minimal distortion. In addition, its crest-factor based adaptive release makes sure the release time is set to the shortest duration possible, without introducing degradation.

“You are trying to control the dynamics of a track with a lot of sustain, like a synth pad or strings, but your track keeps distorting.” Tracks with a lot of sustain can easily distort when using the short attack times needed to control them. The Denise Brickwall Limiter features a ‘fade’ function that lets you anticipate the peaks in your track while keeping an attack to zero to catch all peaks. Subtly fading in the limiters gain reduction in advance this way, will soften the limiting effect and minimise distortion artefacts.

FEATURE LIST:

THRESHOLD (-48dB to 0dB):

Controls the threshold of the limiter, defining the volume level where the limiting effect kicks in.

INPUT (-48dB to 48dB):

Input gain that lets you boost or attenuate the signal going in, giving you more control over the signal.

OUTPUT (-48dB to 48dB):

Output gain to manually compensate for the volume decrease caused by the limiting effect, or to set the limiter’s ‘ceiling’ level when the ‘boost’ switch is activated.

FADE (0% to 100%):

Controls the length of the curve used to fade in the limiter’s gain reduction using the plug-in’s internal ‘lookahead’. Set to zero, the curve will be 0.0ms.

SPEED (0% to 100%):

Controls the range of the limiter’s internal auto-release. Set to zero, the release will always be 0.0ms.

STYLE (dark / natural / bright):

A menu that lets you choose different styles, allowing you to specify the timbre of the limiting effect.

LINK (on/off):

A switch that lets you to link the left and right channel limiting, allowing you to preserve the stereo image of your track.

BOOST (on/off):

A switch that enables the limiter’s auto-makeup gain, which will automatically compensate for the limiter’s volume decrease and boost the volume up to the ceiling value set by the output volume slider.

For more information and how to buy the plug-in, please go to : Denise - Enhance your Creativity
Attached Thumbnails
Denise launch a Brickwall Limiter with a new type of lookahead-brickwall-limiter-2x.jpg  
Old 10th September 2018
  #2
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

How does this compare to other tools like Waves L2, Boz Digital The Wall or DDMF NoLimits?
Old 10th September 2018 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
How does this compare to other tools like Waves L2, Boz Digital The Wall or DDMF NoLimits?
Hi brucerothwell, thanks for your question...the simple answer is it doesn't. This is not a master bus limiter or a group limiter, it's designed to act on individual channels and controlling them while giving the sounds more presence and avoiding distortion.

Cheers,
Joe
Old 10th September 2018 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise.Audio View Post
Hi brucerothwell, thanks for your question...the simple answer is it doesn't. This is not a master bus limiter or a group limiter, it's designed to act on individual channels and controlling them while giving the sounds more presence and avoiding distortion.

Cheers,
Joe
It sounds like you've misnamed this new release then. Calling something a Brickwall Limiter is going to draw comparisons to those and other Brickwall Limiters that more commonly used on the master bus.
Old 10th September 2018 | Show parent
  #5
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Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by profvonsok View Post
It sounds like you've misnamed this new release then. Calling something a Brickwall Limiter is going to draw comparisons to those and other Brickwall Limiters that more commonly used on the master bus.
Thanks for your comment provonsok. This is also something we've thought of ourselves, that's why we've put a lot of emphasis on what the plug-in is designed for in our web copy and published texts. Hopefully, that comes across well.

Best,
Joe
Old 10th September 2018 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise.Audio View Post
Hi brucerothwell, thanks for your question...the simple answer is it doesn't. This is not a master bus limiter or a group limiter, it's designed to act on individual channels and controlling them while giving the sounds more presence and avoiding distortion.

Cheers,
Joe
Ahh... so perhaps more like the Goodhertz Faraday Limiter.

So, are you saying it does or does not function as a "brickwall" limiter for mastering?
Old 11th September 2018
  #7
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All the limiters mentioned in this thread, are already been used on individual channels, we do it all the time...
Old 11th September 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise.Audio View Post
“...because the low end is usually the loudest section of the frequency spectrum, its also the first section that hits a plug-in’s threshold and starts distorting when using a brick wall limiter with zero attack...
this is grammatically incorrect: lf is not 'faster'/doesn't hit threshold 'first' - lf (mostly) has more energy and therefore reaches a specific threshold more easily than hf. check out what jünger has to say on their multi-loop priciple. and people use multiband limiters before hitting a brickwall limiter to address this issue...
Old 11th September 2018
  #9
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StoneyBCN's Avatar
 

Just had a browse around your website. Cool blog, I bookmarked some entries

Will try this in demo on a lead vocal comp later. Vocal chains are a tedious business, always grateful to cut down on a few moves with a decent solution.

You have a consistent release schedule of nice products so far. What else is next? Any EQ or filters for example?
Old 12th September 2018 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
this is grammatically incorrect: lf is not 'faster'/doesn't hit threshold 'first' - lf (mostly) has more energy and therefore reaches a specific threshold more easily than hf. check out what jünger has to say on their multi-loop priciple. and people use multiband limiters before hitting a brickwall limiter to address this issue...
Hi deedeeyeah, thanks for pointing this out for us, it's very easy to over look these things with so much going on. I'll look into getting that updated.
Old 12th September 2018 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneyBCN View Post
Just had a browse around your website. Cool blog, I bookmarked some entries

Will try this in demo on a lead vocal comp later. Vocal chains are a tedious business, always grateful to cut down on a few moves with a decent solution.

You have a consistent release schedule of nice products so far. What else is next? Any EQ or filters for example?
Hety Stoney BCN, thanks for your message. Please do try it out and if you have any questions feel free to ask me here...The only thing I can say is follow us on Facebook, or Insta to stay up-to-date with our release schedule. All will be revealed there:

Denise - Home | Facebook
Denise (@denise.audio) • Instagram photos and videos

Nice one,
Joe
Old 12th September 2018 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Ahh... so perhaps more like the Goodhertz Faraday Limiter.

So, are you saying it does or does not function as a "brickwall" limiter for mastering?
Hi Bruce, this plug-in hasn't been designed as a brickwall limiter for mastering.
Old 12th September 2018 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise.Audio View Post
Hi Bruce, this plug-in hasn't been designed as a brickwall limiter for mastering.
Excuse my ignorance then, but out of simple curiosity:

Don't all limiters do brickwall limiting? (If not, why is that?)
And if it does, why couldn't you use it for mastering?
Old 27th September 2018
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Hi Gearslutz,

I wanted to let you know that we have updated our GUI for this plug-in, and are planning to do it to everyone our range. We have also put together a production tip featuring the plugin, it shows you how you can use the BL to control the peaks on a kick and bassline. The tutorial comes from a great Berlin-based artist call Nrec.

Check out the video on our Facebook page:

Denise - Brickwall Limiter on the bass and kick | Facebook

Best,
Joe from Denise.
Attached Thumbnails
Denise launch a Brickwall Limiter with a new type of lookahead-brickwall-limiter-1.1.0-2x.jpg  
Old 23rd February 2019
  #15
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Just having a demo now and the first thing that stands out as lacking, the meters need a zoom mode so you can actually have information useful for mastering.

Usually when mastering you use between 1 to 2dB gain reduction max. No numbers and info at this level already disqualifies this from being usable in a pro mastering context.
Old 23rd February 2019
  #16
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So far with my testing, this thing can push hotter levels and keep the drums intact about a dB or 2 more than others like Ozone.
Would have been quite the weapon in the loudness wars heyday. Will purchase for the occasional insane client that comes along.

Its quite upper mid forward when pushed to the limit. (pun) ; )

Nice work on that fade trick!
Old 23rd February 2019 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
So far with my testing, this thing can push hotter levels and keep the drums intact about a dB or 2 more than others like Ozone.
Would have been quite the weapon in the loudness wars heyday. Will purchase for the occasional insane client that comes along.

Its quite upper mid forward when pushed to the limit. (pun) ; )

Nice work on that fade trick!
Polybonk, can you share setting you used?
Old 23rd February 2019
  #18
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polybonk's Avatar
Purchased. Really great limiter for the price!!!

Unlinked mode keeps the 3d of the track intact unlike a lot of limiters.

Between the fade and the speed settings, you can get really nice artifact free limiting.

Pushed hard it keeps the integrity well.

As for settings, when pushing hard into the DnB and Techno tracks I tested I was finding Speed 0, Fade round 40 and boost on. Dark Profile. (doesn't sound dark at all)
I found that it sounded better on the drum transients when pushed hard.
Could go about a dB or 2 more even on material that had crazy levels of converter clipping.

Of course, this is still going to be program dependent and if you are going for realistic levels then it's not such an issue. But I do like to stress test limiters to hear where the breakup occurs.

Out of all the limiters I have tested this one seems to be the best one to pair with my Cedar adaptive limiter! Reminds me of the TC Brickwall level of quality.
Highly recommended!
Old 27th February 2019 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Purchased. Really great limiter for the price!!!

Unlinked mode keeps the 3d of the track intact unlike a lot of limiters.

Between the fade and the speed settings, you can get really nice artifact free limiting.

Pushed hard it keeps the integrity well.

As for settings, when pushing hard into the DnB and Techno tracks I tested I was finding Speed 0, Fade round 40 and boost on. Dark Profile. (doesn't sound dark at all)
I found that it sounded better on the drum transients when pushed hard.
Could go about a dB or 2 more even on material that had crazy levels of converter clipping.

Of course, this is still going to be program dependent and if you are going for realistic levels then it's not such an issue. But I do like to stress test limiters to hear where the breakup occurs.

Out of all the limiters I have tested this one seems to be the best one to pair with my Cedar adaptive limiter! Reminds me of the TC Brickwall level of quality.
Highly recommended!
Cool! This is good to hear, Polybonk. Thank you for your comment and your purchase. I hope you find many good uses for it and if you do, feel free to share them!

Best,
Joe
Old 27th February 2019 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Just having a demo now and the first thing that stands out as lacking, the meters need a zoom mode so you can actually have information useful for mastering.

Usually when mastering you use between 1 to 2dB gain reduction max. No numbers and info at this level already disqualifies this from being usable in a pro mastering context.
A zoom mode is an interesting, how do you imagine that looking? Something of a more detailed meter? or the ability to zoom in to see it in more detail?

Best,
Joe
Old 28th February 2019 | Show parent
  #21
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polybonk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise.Audio View Post
A zoom mode is an interesting, how do you imagine that looking? Something of a more detailed meter? or the ability to zoom in to see it in more detail?

Best,
Joe
I was thinking just zooming in on the meters that you have to say 6 or 8 dB and adding some numbers so you can tell exactly where you are.
Old 28th February 2019
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Assuming the meters are showing amount of compression/limiting there should be no need for them to go higher than maybe 18 to 24, which is crazy amounts of reduction. I suppose if people want to crush their music completely and the plugin supports it...though as with most compressors I have the Denise ones seem to be applying some constant gain reduction and therefore not actually that much compression in the video examples (because they're not releasing fully before applying again due to the settings, not due to flaws in the compressor) so maybe it's not crushing that much. Anyway, tangent...

The Glue and Plugin Alliance's bx_opto have meters which only go to 20.

Using TDR Kotelnikov, which has an interesting metering trick, I was able to get up to 36 reduction at really extreme settings. But same "not recovering fully" behavior.

I don't have a problem with telling where it's hitting on your meters, though. There are 5 lines between each number. I'd have no issue seeing when it's hitting 2db reduction (second line from 0.) The Glue's meter is far less obvious, having no indicators at all between the numbers.

But if you wanted to make it zoomable you could give people the option of something like full (= 48,) half (=24,) and quarter (=12) or 1x (=12,) 2x (=24,) 4x (=48) depending which most people would find more useful (I'd prefer the latter with it defaulting to 1x on plugin load) *or* use the Kotelnikov trick - the meter there starts at 6 and automatically changes to higher as you push the compression. It was a bit weird at first but I got used to it quickly.
Old 1st March 2019 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Denise.Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
I was thinking just zooming in on the meters that you have to say 6 or 8 dB and adding some numbers so you can tell exactly where you are.
Great, I get your suggestion and I will pass this onto the team
Old 6th May 2019 | Show parent
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprompt View Post
Excuse my ignorance then, but out of simple curiosity:

Don't all limiters do brickwall limiting? (If not, why is that?)
And if it does, why couldn't you use it for mastering?
Just tried the demo, it sounds nice, but indeed not to use at the last mastering stage, because of intersample peaks.

For exemple, a ceiling at -0.3 will show way over in True Peaks measurment.

The brickwall limiters used in mastering do avoid intersample peaks.
Old 23rd May 2019 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strange loop View Post
Assuming the meters are showing amount of compression/limiting
Can't really grasp the meter on this, actually not one of Denise audio excellent products. So if you see something on meter then it has reached the threshold of the unit starting to work? eg. saturation kicks in, bitcrusher or brickwall limiter, depending of the processor.
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