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Stam Audio Stamchild SA-670 Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 1 week ago
  #481
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Side note: my refund was withdrawn for some reason. It's been two weeks since I've had any contact. Still waiting for it (weeks). Weeeeeeee.
I do not want to jump to any premature conclusions, but of all the things I've read in all the Stam related threads, this disturbs me the most.

Are you saying the refund was issued and showed up in your account, then was taken away from you? After you had the funds in your account?
Old 1 week ago
  #482
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelando View Post
You are right, there is a large difference between an outright ‘scam’ and a Ponzi scheme; mainly the motivation for the investment and the procured goal with the capital gain. I’m now purchasing my 3rd Stam product; absolutely love my sa2a and the SSL bus compressor makes tracks sound like a record! But the more I’ve bought from Stam, the more signs appear that Stams business model is run on a Ponzi scheme. Now this doesn’t mean that Stam is intentionally scamming anyone, what it does mean is that his business model is extremely dangerous to invest in. Here are the typical signs of a Ponzi scheme:
1. Lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.
2. The scheme leads current investors to believe that profits (or product) are coming from product sales or other means and they remain unaware that previous investors are the source of funds.
3. A Ponzi scheme can maintain the illusion of sustainability as long as new investors contribute new funds, and as long as MOST of the investors do not demand full repayment and still believe in the not existent assets (or product) they are told they own.

So all of this being said does Stam have ill intent towards his investors at all? No, In fact I truly think he’s trying to do the audio world a great service! And as far as the Sa2a is concerned, he’s certainly accomplished this! But if this is the business model he’s chosen, he needs to be aware that this is very dangerous for his investors and moreso himself. There is a reason why these business models are illegal (at least in the US lol). Why it seems apparent that Stam is propping up his business with a Ponzi scheme:
extreme wait times and the clear cut cases of dishonesty, the strange waiting periods for parts (funding old product with new investors), the consistent new release of product and product funding in conjunction with generations of products still unbuilt and undelivered, the lack of transparency in the practice when it comes to knowing anything about the product your buying to the point where investors are not even assured there is a prototype??, and finally the lack of any legal measure taken to assure you you’re investment is protected and insured...other than Stams word, etc.

I only am posting this as the signs of a scheme like this seem to be unfolding with this business, and I’ll certainly retract this post if I am proven wrong by Stam or his staff. It’s important for investors, like myself, to know that your initial investments are typically not very safe - even at the helm of a company who has good intentions. If this is going on, no wonder Stam is pulling his hair out - most Ponzi schemers work with investments (thin air vanishing) whereas Stams medium is tangible, fragile, audible. Do yourself a favor man and get a business loan if in fact this is going on. It’s healthy for businesses to accrue debt (even multinational corporations have debt). There won’t be such extreme wait times, you’ll have everything you need right at the start to get your investors your amazing products and also your business will no longer be a house of cards flailing in the wind.

I didn’t want to post here and I’m not at all being negative, I’m just an investor who believes in the product of this company but is becoming increasingly concerned with the business practice. I look forward to owning a 670, I really want this thing in my studio, especially if it’s built by Stam!
Thanks for the in depth input. I was under the impression that a Ponzi Scheme was an intentional swindle.

And my apologies to the memory of Oliver. My point is that regardless of differences in established reputation, Stam appears to have good intentions, as did Oliver, though both fell prey to delays in the face of down paid orders. Some observers of investors in Oliver's Lucas mics assumed the worst, as they have here.
Old 1 week ago
  #483
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no genre View Post
I do not want to jump to any premature conclusions, but of all the things I've read in all the Stam related threads, this disturbs me the most.

Are you saying the refund was issued and showed up in your account, then was taken away from you? After you had the funds in your account?
Yeah, that could use some add'l details. If Stam denied a refund then we're talking about a new concern.
Old 1 week ago
  #484
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant View Post
The capital outlay required to build 100 of these SA670's is a lot of money
I have a small business - and if I had 200 deposits on hand - I could get
a line of credit based on the deposits to cover my expenses. I have no dog
in this hunt - except to paraphrase in a Shaksperian way - Something is Rotten In
Chili.


Quote:
I am only here saying this as I am concerned Gearslutz is being used as a sales platform by Stam when the whole operation is unethical, and in my country it would contravene the Fair Trading Act.
Aside from letting Stam announce a new unseen product 3.5 years ago - they haven't used Gearslutz in any manner you describe.
Old 1 week ago
  #485
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Although nice to see, a single unfinished prototype doesn't equate to a production facility (of supposedly 20 people was it?) that is capable of fulfilling not just orders for this 670, but for every product they sell (or announce for pre-order).

A % of customers receiving working units does not negate the fears that this is a volatile business model.

Another factor to consider: support. Stam are months—years in total?—behind with orders. What level/responsiveness of customer support do you think you'll experience if your unit is faulty? While a hobbyist may be able to do without HW for weeks/months, it's a different ballgame for a professional that *needs* it.

Side note: my refund was withdrawn for some reason. It's been two weeks since I've had any contact. Still waiting for it (weeks). Weeeeeeee.
Email me at [email protected], I will assist ASAP

I am sure you understand we do not have the power or tools to access a refunded payment and withdraw it from your account?

Ask any client who has had a technical issue with us, Jeff in the US get's them back within days, no cost for the client.

Sorry, but our technical service is second to none, both in the US and Europe.
Old 1 week ago
  #486
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andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanaconda View Post
Sorry, but our technical service is second to none, both in the US and Europe.
Well, that says a lot.
Old 1 week ago
  #487
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Well, that says a lot.
They do have 2 or three repair dealers set up in the US. I have no experience with them, but have seen a few posts by customers who were happy with the repairs and service. They (the Stam customers) also mentioned that Stam paid for shipping to and from the repair facility. Barbaric Amplification was one on the west coast, and there was at least one other on the east coast. Seems like there may have been a 3rd US location, too.

I do not keep up with that, though. So, I'm not familiar if anything has changed recently regarding the service facilities.
Old 1 week ago
  #488
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no genre View Post
Are you saying the refund was issued and showed up in your account, then was taken away from you? After you had the funds in your account?
Yes, the transfer was labelled as 'Cancelled' sometime after. I must make it clear that it was Camilla who alerted me to that fact, I would have likely not have noticed, so all credit to Stam for being the proactive party in highlighting the issue.

The wait was for a reply after I suggested using another PayPal account. It has since been refunded fully.

Last edited by b0se; 1 week ago at 03:51 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #489
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Yes, the transfer was labelled as 'Cancelled' sometime after. I must make it clear that it was Camilla who alerted me to that fact, I would have likely not have noticed, so all credit to Stam for being the proactive party in highlighting the issue.

The wait was for my own reply suggesting another PayPal account. It has since been refunded fully.
I greatly appreciate the kind response, b0se.
Old 1 week ago
  #490
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanaconda View Post
Email me at [email protected], I will assist ASAP

I am sure you understand we do not have the power or tools to access a refunded payment and withdraw it from your account?

Ask any client who has had a technical issue with us, Jeff in the US get's them back within days, no cost for the client.

Sorry, but our technical service is second to none, both in the US and Europe.
All sorted (quickly), thanks. Good to know you have technical support nailed down.
Old 1 week ago
  #491
Company Rep
 

mark from Stam Audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allaboutrhythm View Post
If people are strategically placed, no one has told me. Ive been a Stam customer from his second batch of SA-2As. I've always taken advantage of the pre-order deals and Ive waited for my gear like everyone else.

At times I placed pre-orders and then had to cancel due to financial reasons during slow periods. I rather appreciate the time to save and or make payments for my Stam gear. It has actually allowed me to get fantastic sounding equipment at ridiculous deals. The only thing is the waiting.

Ive received all my units without issue. Id rather the time spent now, then having to return or repair anything. At this point, the only bad thing would be to receive equipment that didn't work or live up to its sound. I have had neither happen yet.

The empty spaces in the racks are for my pre-ordered pair of SA-76ADGs and the SA-670. Funds permitting, I'll be preordering the SA-EQs. Ive had a Warm Eq and was willing to sell it to fund Stam gear.

This is all based on firstly, the sound quality, the build quality, and then there is the added perk of a very nice aesthetic.

Keep it up Stam!


Looks great man!

We're happy to hear that and thank you for trusting us
Old 1 week ago
  #492
Company Rep
 

mark from Stam Audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by no genre View Post
They do have 2 or three repair dealers set up in the US. I have no experience with them, but have seen a few posts by customers who were happy with the repairs and service. They (the Stam customers) also mentioned that Stam paid for shipping to and from the repair facility. Barbaric Amplification was one on the west coast, and there was at least one other on the east coast. Seems like there may have been a 3rd US location, too.

I do not keep up with that, though. So, I'm not familiar if anything has changed recently regarding the service facilities.

Thanks for your contribution.

We have several people working with us for technical support in the US and the EU.

If anyone needs to contact them I will be more than happy to put you in touch with them.

My email is: [email protected]

Regards, Mark
Old 1 week ago
  #493
Company Rep
 

mark from Stam Audio

Our technical team is always there to help out in the unlikely event there is a default.

If anyone needs technical support on some gear I will gladly put you in touch with them.

Contact me at: [email protected]

Regards, Mark
Old 1 week ago
  #494
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant View Post
OK, so we have some fair discussion on the matter, that is cool. Now, perhaps Stam Audio can enter the discussion, and show us some photos of the products being constructed that will "ship in a few weeks". Surely that can't be too hard fellas? Your buyers would certainly welcome it.
Thats not going to happen.

If you expect to see Organised containers with Cinemag's,Capacitors,etc. You would have seen it by now.

If you expect to see an Assembly line with 20-30 boards at diffrent levels of build, you would have seen that by now.

If you expect a picture of a functional factory floor with multiple soldering stations and employees hunched over working on products you would have seen that already.

No different than not just beliving the kidnappers word but asking for proof via pictures/videos of the subject holding todays newspaper.

According to the owner they shipped thousands of product to satisfied customers.

I have yet to see a fully populated Stamchild board with all components or even 1 video of a unit processing audio.
Old 1 week ago
  #495
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
If I were Stam I'd return the down payments of those equatting them to kidnappers, scammers and Ponzi schemers. Problem solved on both sides. By now, everyone realizes that there are horrific delays, but there's zero/zilch/nada evidence that an SA670 does not exist nor that there's no intent to produce all orders.

Regarding forums editing posts from people who falsely accuse others of serious crimes without supporting evidence: it's a smart move if they want to keep the forum out of court, not to mention keeping the bar of decorum set at some altitude above the ground. Here, it seems that anything goes, under the guise of 'protecting the common customer.' I'm sure we've all noticed that this is becoming a popular complaint about this forum in recent years (it's turning into the Wild West; one big, uncultured Moan Zone).
Old 1 week ago
  #496
Lives for gear
 
Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
there's zero/zilch/nada evidence that an SA670 does not exist
There's zero/zilch/nada evidence that my rocketship to Mars does not exist.

However, there's also zero/zilch/nada evidence that it does.

Kinda like the SA670...
Old 1 week ago
  #497
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
There's zero/zilch/nada evidence that my rocketship to Mars does not exist.

However, there's also zero/zilch/nada evidence that it does.

Kinda like the SA670...
But there is plenty of evidence that Stam has delivered on other projects, and given their track record, they are right on schedule.
Old 1 week ago
  #498
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
There's zero/zilch/nada evidence that my rocketship to Mars does not exist.

However, there's also zero/zilch/nada evidence that it does.

Kinda like the SA670...
And I'm raising albino unicorns. Or am I? I guess there's no evidence in either direction. Or is there? Hard to tell. Or is it?

Now that we've gratified your urge to explore the ridiculous, I assume we can get back to reality where the various pitchforks -- bright as they attempt to be -- are bringing no real light upon this supposed "scam/scheme?"

If not, here's a forum where some drama majors are discussing the benefits of being pronounced:

Theater/Drama Majors — College Confidential



In all honesty, get a grip man. Despite what you may believe, the world owes you nothing.
Old 1 week ago
  #499
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
If I were Stam I'd return the down payments of those equatting them to kidnappers, scammers and Ponzi schemers. Problem solved on both sides. By now, everyone realizes that there are horrific delays, but there's zero/zilch/nada evidence that an SA670 does not exist nor that there's no intent to produce all orders.

Regarding forums editing posts from people who falsely accuse others of serious crimes without supporting evidence: it's a smart move if they want to keep the forum out of court, not to mention keeping the bar of decorum set at some altitude above the ground. Here, it seems that anything goes, under the guise of 'protecting the common customer.' I'm sure we've all noticed that this is becoming a popular complaint about this forum in recent years (it's turning into the Wild West; one big, uncultured Moan Zone).
Well said @elambo - Although we’ve taken to differing opinions on one recent non-Stam related thread, I generally agree with most all that you post, and I certainly agree with you on this one. Stam may have serious delays, but to be compared to a Ponzi scheme is inaccurate and unfair. Well stated
Old 1 week ago
  #500
Here for the gear
 

I received an email from Stam a couple of weeks ago. They are very keen to offer me a discount and they even said to check the reviews out on Gearslutz:

Hello Studio 10 Music,

My name is Mark and I’m writing you on behalf of Stam Audio: Stam Audio

We would be very interested in having our gear in your recording studio as it would be a good marketing tool for us, for engineers, producers and musicians to see our brand at your place. For this reason we would like to extend you a 30% discount to an item of your choice from our catalogue....


As you can guess, I checked out all these threads and have decided to steer well clear! Have had another couple of emails guaranteeing quick delivery etc. He seems very keen to get my cash and I imagine he's been emailing lots of small studios with this '30% deal'.
Old 1 week ago
  #501
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModMan68 View Post
I received an email from Stam a couple of weeks ago. They are very keen to offer me a discount and they even said to check the reviews out on Gearslutz:

Hello Studio 10 Music,

My name is Mark and I’m writing you on behalf of Stam Audio: Stam Audio

We would be very interested in having our gear in your recording studio as it would be a good marketing tool for us, for engineers, producers and musicians to see our brand at your place. For this reason we would like to extend you a 30% discount to an item of your choice from our catalogue....


As you can guess, I checked out all these threads and have decided to steer well clear! Have had another couple of emails guaranteeing quick delivery etc. He seems very keen to get my cash and I imagine he's been emailing lots of small studios with this '30% deal'.
Is it appropriate to copy a private email, with a personalized offer, into a public GS thread? Even if not against any specific forum rules (it's prohibited on many forums), it's certainly tasteless to do so only to turn around and use that gesture of gratuity against them.
Old 1 week ago
  #502
Here for the gear
 

He was getting quite pushy/desperate via email and after reading all the horror stories here I certainly don't appreciate someone attempting to solicit my money when they know full well that they cannot deliver the goods. Thought it was worth copying and pasting part of the email which they have obviously been sending out to all and sundry. Go ahead, order some gear folks and I'll check back here in a year to see who's actually received anything.
Old 1 week ago
  #503
Gear Addict
 
QuintaQuad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Is it appropriate to copy a private email, with a personalized offer, into a public GS thread? Even if not against any specific forum rules (it's prohibited on many forums), it's certainly tasteless to do so only to turn around and use that gesture of gratuity against them.
Sorry, but this appears to be an unsolicited marketing email which I personally wouldn’t consider a “private” email, particularly if it was sent to more than one person. Of course it’s possible that ModMan68’s studio is the only one that received such an email but I highly doubt it.
Old 1 week ago
  #504
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModMan68 View Post
He was getting quite pushy/desperate via email and after reading all the horror stories here I certainly don't appreciate someone attempting to solicit my money when they know full well that they cannot deliver the goods. Thought it was worth copying and pasting part of the email which they have obviously been sending out to all and sundry. Go ahead, order some gear folks and I'll check back here in a year to see who's actually received anything.
I have to wonder how you would feel if you were to offer a 30% discount to your clients and in return they published your offer verbatim, for anyone to see, along with the addition of the embarrassing opinion/interpretation that you were doing so because you were desperate, pushy, keen to get their cash, and ultimately unable to deliver. Seems a bit more immoral from that angle, eh?
Old 1 week ago
  #505
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuintaQuad View Post
Sorry, but this appears to be an unsolicited marketing email which I personally wouldn’t consider a “private” email, particularly if it was sent to more than one person. Of course it’s possible that ModMan68’s studio is the only one that received such an email but I highly doubt it.
Do you think they deserve to be shamed for it?
Old 1 week ago
  #506
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
Thats not going to happen.

If you expect to see Organised containers with Cinemag's,Capacitors,etc. You would have seen it by now.

If you expect to see an Assembly line with 20-30 boards at diffrent levels of build, you would have seen that by now.

If you expect a picture of a functional factory floor with multiple soldering stations and employees hunched over working on products you would have seen that already.

No different than not just beliving the kidnappers word but asking for proof via pictures/videos of the subject holding todays newspaper.

According to the owner they shipped thousands of product to satisfied customers.

I have yet to see a fully populated Stamchild board with all components or even 1 video of a unit processing audio.
You should check our Facebook page
Old 1 week ago
  #507
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModMan68 View Post
I received an email from Stam a couple of weeks ago. They are very keen to offer me a discount and they even said to check the reviews out on Gearslutz:

Hello Studio 10 Music,

My name is Mark and I’m writing you on behalf of Stam Audio: Stam Audio

We would be very interested in having our gear in your recording studio as it would be a good marketing tool for us, for engineers, producers and musicians to see our brand at your place. For this reason we would like to extend you a 30% discount to an item of your choice from our catalogue....


As you can guess, I checked out all these threads and have decided to steer well clear! Have had another couple of emails guaranteeing quick delivery etc. He seems very keen to get my cash and I imagine he's been emailing lots of small studios with this '30% deal'.
If they are selling so many units that there is a year backlog why actively solicit others via email and offer a 30% discount on top of that.

Does anyone have a link to a video of a working Stamchild processing audio?
Old 1 week ago
  #508
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
If I were Stam I'd return the down payments of those equatting them to kidnappers, scammers and Ponzi schemers. Problem solved on both sides. By now, everyone realizes that there are horrific delays, but there's zero/zilch/nada evidence that an SA670 does not exist nor that there's no intent to produce all orders.

Regarding forums editing posts from people who falsely accuse others of serious crimes without supporting evidence: it's a smart move if they want to keep the forum out of court, not to mention keeping the bar of decorum set at some altitude above the ground. Here, it seems that anything goes, under the guise of 'protecting the common customer.' I'm sure we've all noticed that this is becoming a popular complaint about this forum in recent years (it's turning into the Wild West; one big, uncultured Moan Zone).
I completely agree with you

Anybody who thinks we are scammers should just request a refund like hundreds have done over the years.

We have yet to fail to refund anybody.

You can also see by the number of the invoices that we have shipped thousands of units (or by the serial numbers) and it would be known by now if we were

I am making a video on the StamChild at the end of the month in Santiago (head city of Chile) before shipping one out to for reviews

Shipping begins May 20th for this unit, I will try to make them as fast as possible, however, they are dangerous machines with enough current to kill a man thus only four of us are allowed to work on it. We are actually making a room just for Fairchild builds!
Old 1 week ago
  #509
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
If they are selling so many units that there is a year backlog why actively solicit others via email and offer a 30% discount on top of that.

Does anyone have a link to a video of a working Stamchild processing audio?
Sales and marketing, there is a person who attracts new clients to try our brand. It happens regardless if a company does well or not.
Old 1 week ago
  #510
Gear Addict
 
QuintaQuad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Do you think they deserve to be shamed for it?
I’m not sure how ModMan68 posting a marketing email and stating that he didn’t want to make a purchase after seeing all the negative posts on GS qualifies as shaming. It’s another bit of information that someone who’s considering purchasing a Stam product can consider when making their decision.

As I stated in a previous post about Stam I don’t think they’ve intentionally scammed anyone. I do think that Joshua has painted himself into a corner with his lack of business acumen and is in a precarious position businesswise.

You and others here seem to take issue with people referring to Stam’s business model as a Ponzi Scheme. It’s been pointed out several times in various Stam threads exactly what a Ponzi Scheme is. The intent to scam is not necessarily part of a Ponzi Scheme. To explain as simply as possible, when a business or person uses money from sales of future products that don’t yet exist to fund current products being assembled then that qualifies as a Ponzi Scheme. Many well intentioned businesses have attempted to use this business model and the majority of them end up going belly up. It’s certainly possible that Stam could climb out of this hole but the odds are highly against it. It’s just not a sound business practice. They’re gambling with their customer’s preorder money.

If that’s not the case here with Stam then they need to stop taking orders and people’s money immediately until all present orders are filled. Unfortunately, my guess is that they can’t afford to do this because they wouldn’t have any cash coming in to survive. If that’s the case then it is indeed a Ponzi Scheme. So far Stam hasn’t offered any bona fide evidence that contradicts many people’s opinion of this situation being a Ponzi Scheme other than empty promises. Joshua is the only one who really knows what the true story is and only time will tell who’s right about the outcome. Until then it’s merely speculation from both sides...
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