The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Antelope Audio Announces Thunderbolt™ Beta Driver for Windows Audio Interfaces
Old 3rd July 2018
  #61
Gear Addict
 
mauvehead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by senchev View Post
Hello,

First, an announcement: we've updated the Goliath and the Zen Studio+ and now all Antelope Thunderbolt interface are supported by the Windows driver!

About the driver performance:
Our QA Engineers have tested heavy sessions with 95% CPU usage with lowest buffer sizes, which DAW allows, and the driver is rock solid.

The issues (clicks and pops) we've encountered so far were related to:
a) MMCSS - where the problem and a workaround are well documented;
b) Multi-processing in some of the DAWs (e.g. Cubase), which is a DAW issue, not a driver one.

We decided to postpone the benchmarks for the next major version of the driver, which will include multi-client support, as we're doing some internal changes in the way audio is processed that may change the performance a bit.

Stay tuned!

Best regards,
Svetoslav Enchev
Senchev...

I got a pop-up on my Zen Studio+ about a firmware update. My first thought was that the new FPGA effects (Impreeser, mic pre emulations, etc) were now going to be available, but after reading this thread announcement it must've been for the Windows related stuff (I'm on a Mac). What's the ETA for the newest FPGA effects updates with the Zen Studio+? Thanks!
Old 3rd July 2018
  #62
Here for the gear
 
senchev's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauvehead View Post
Senchev...

I got a pop-up on my Zen Studio+ about a firmware update. My first thought was that the new FPGA effects (Impreeser, mic pre emulations, etc) were now going to be available, but after reading this thread announcement it must've been for the Windows related stuff (I'm on a Mac). What's the ETA for the newest FPGA effects updates with the Zen Studio+? Thanks!
I can't give you an ETA, but it's on the way. The hardest part - the FPGA - is ready, and the new version is included in today's update. What's left is the software - firmware and Control panel. Most of the work is done and will soon go to QA. There are some complications this time - related to a bootloader bug not allowing "big" firmware images to be flashed, but we're fixing this and preparing update for this too. We're working on making the update process as robust and as user-friendly as possible. If your device is affected, you'll receive two consecutive updates - the first will fix the bootloader and "unlock" access to the second update that has all the new features. So it will just take a bit longer to update, but I promise it would be well worth it

But please let's keep this thread to the Windows Thunderbolt driver. We've got specific threads for our products.

Best regards,
Svetoslav Enchev
Old 7th July 2018
  #63
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by senchev View Post
Our QA Engineers have tested heavy sessions with 95% CPU usage with lowest buffer sizes, which DAW allows, and the driver is rock solid.
This is super impressive. You basically jump up to the very top of the heap if this claim turns out to be true.

Old 7th July 2018
  #64
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
This is super impressive. You basically jump up to the very top of the heap if this claim turns out to be true.

It's also a very simplified statement. The most difficult thing is not just creating the driver but reliably reproducing this level of performance across a multitude of operating system versions, PC hardware AND software.

To pull it off Antelope Audio would have to have made a substantial effort in testing and QA. I'm not saying they can't do it but I'll be waiting to see some user reports.
Old 7th July 2018
  #65
Here for the gear
 
senchev's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by occultron View Post
It's also a very simplified statement. The most difficult thing is not just creating the driver but reliably reproducing this level of performance across a multitude of operating system versions, PC hardware AND software.

To pull it off Antelope Audio would have to have made a substantial effort in testing and QA. I'm not saying they can't do it but I'll be waiting to see some user reports.
You're absolutely correct on this one!

That's why we choose the Closed Beta / Open Beta approach - to have the driver tested and results reported on as many systems as possible. So far this approach has worked great - especially our Closed Beta testers have helped us a lot in finding bugs and doing optimizations on different systems in the early days of the drivers (it's been in Closed Beta since February, Open Beta since mid-April).

Now there were problems on our side - bugs in the driver that we fixed.
Then there are problems from the way Windows and the DAWs work - we've documented them and found workarounds.
Sadly, there are problems that are out of our control - we've seen systems with other drivers that cause high DPC latency, and we cannot do anything about it. But even on those systems, using higher buffer sizes allows for good experience and productive workflow.
Our biggest problem however is Thunderbolt infancy on the PC. Lots of new PCs are still produced without Thunderbolt support; some older PCs with Thunderbolt support come with old BIOSes that don't support newer AICs, and older AICs are out of stock; people have reported problems bringing up the Thunderbolt stacks on their supposedly supported machines. Thankfully, motherboard and Thunderbolt AIC vendors have been helpful to the users. Our Technical support engineers are also taking the extra step to help users pick parts, configure their systems, etc.

Overall, despite the problems above, the feedback we're receiving is positive - people like the stability and performance of the driver. We're eager to make it feature-complete and I hope more and more people will pick it up and enjoy the full capabilities of their Antelope interfaces with low latency.

Best regards,
Svetoslav Enchev
Old 7th July 2018
  #66
Lives for gear
 

This sounds really promising. Are you guys developing your own drivers inhouse?

Also, perhaps if you guys have time it may be worth making a nice little document on how to optimize windows. Like how to set all those flags in the registry like

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Audio]

.. and

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Pro Audio]

Those may (or may not) help potential users.

I agree that Windows and the PC eco system in general is a real minefield to navigate. Going the extra mile of helping your users is a huge boon and definitely should earn you a lot of added respect.

From my point of view as a potential customer it looks like you guys are taking things seriously and hopefully can lay the ghosts of Aardvaark to rest.

Anyhow, looking forward to testing one of your products in the near future when it's time to move on from the not-so-gracefully ageing Prism Orpheus (due to requirements for the legacy firewire driver to get things working properly).

I'm currently waiting for your plugin/FPGA effects system to mature a bit more. Sound quality wise they already seem to be absolutely superb.

Cheers!
bM
Old 10th July 2018
  #67
How about USB C support instead of thunderbolt then?!
Old 11th July 2018
  #68
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by senchev View Post
You're absolutely correct on this one!

That's why we choose the Closed Beta / Open Beta approach - to have the driver tested and results reported on as many systems as possible. So far this approach has worked great - especially our Closed Beta testers have helped us a lot in finding bugs and doing optimizations on different systems in the early days of the drivers (it's been in Closed Beta since February, Open Beta since mid-April).

Now there were problems on our side - bugs in the driver that we fixed.
Then there are problems from the way Windows and the DAWs work - we've documented them and found workarounds.
Sadly, there are problems that are out of our control - we've seen systems with other drivers that cause high DPC latency, and we cannot do anything about it. But even on those systems, using higher buffer sizes allows for good experience and productive workflow.
Our biggest problem however is Thunderbolt infancy on the PC. Lots of new PCs are still produced without Thunderbolt support; some older PCs with Thunderbolt support come with old BIOSes that don't support newer AICs, and older AICs are out of stock; people have reported problems bringing up the Thunderbolt stacks on their supposedly supported machines. Thankfully, motherboard and Thunderbolt AIC vendors have been helpful to the users. Our Technical support engineers are also taking the extra step to help users pick parts, configure their systems, etc.

Overall, despite the problems above, the feedback we're receiving is positive - people like the stability and performance of the driver. We're eager to make it feature-complete and I hope more and more people will pick it up and enjoy the full capabilities of their Antelope interfaces with low latency.

Best regards,
Svetoslav Enchev
So, can you calculate when will be the time to recommend the discrete 4/8 to a windows 10 user to buy your product having in mind that will work without problems?
Old 11th July 2018
  #69
Here for the gear
 
senchev's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by papaki23 View Post
So, can you calculate when will be the time to recommend the discrete 4/8 to a windows 10 user to buy your product having in mind that will work without problems?
I'm recommending it right now! The Discretes work great on the PC. It just might be that you'll need some assistance from your motherboard vendor, but it will be the same with all Thunderbolt devices on the market. And of course, you can always run it over USB.
Old 11th July 2018
  #70
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by senchev View Post
I'm recommending it right now! The Discretes work great on the PC. It just might be that you'll need some assistance from your motherboard vendor, but it will be the same with all Thunderbolt devices on the market. And of course, you can always run it over USB.
And what about the problems with the launcher that many people complain about? And what about the reboots of the computer if you want to change the asio latency or the samplerate?
Old 25th July 2018
  #71
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by illsoulprod View Post
How about USB C support instead of thunderbolt then?!
This was something I wrote on their YT video:

Quote:
Originally Posted by djrtnyc
IDK Why they decided to go with TB and USB 3.o when they should have just added a TB/USB 3.1 Type-C and Doubled the thruput (on Paper) of the USB connection. My guess was that the cost of adding this would have been a premium but @$5000 It's kind of a head scratcher that they would think of cost at that level...
Make that $7k..

I just got mine....and it's been hell... but it does sound fantastic.
Old 31st July 2018
  #72
Here for the gear
 
da Vinci's Avatar
 

Greetings fellow gearslutz members!
I just tried to hook up my Orion 32+ over Thunderbolt to my Asus z97 sabertooth motherboard with the Asus EX2 add in card. Does anyone have experience with making this combination work? Right now it’s not working. From what I understand reading several other threads online it’s definitely not a “plug and play” situation getting thunderbolt to work with Windows. I have Windows 10.
It’s probably a Bios thing... would appreciate if anybody who have used the Asus add in cards could contribute.
Thanks!
Old 31st July 2018
  #73
Gear Head
 

anybody knows if the Thunderbolt work through one of these ports:
USB 3.1 Gen 2 port(s) (Type-A + USB Type-CTM)

this motherboard:
Z170-PREMIUM | Motherboards | ASUS USA

I thought it had internal Thunderbolt 3 but it seems like it don't have it. I talked to Asus support who said that one these ports supports thunderbolt 2. This must be with an adapter like this I guess: Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)-til-Thunderbolt 2-adapter
Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter - Apple (NO)



Quote:
Originally Posted by da Vinci View Post
Greetings fellow gearslutz members!
I just tried to hook up my Orion 32+ over Thunderbolt to my Asus z97 sabertooth motherboard with the Asus EX2 add in card. Does anyone have experience with making this combination work? Right now it’s not working. From what I understand reading several other threads online it’s definitely not a “plug and play” situation getting thunderbolt to work with Windows. I have Windows 10.
It’s probably a Bios thing... would appreciate if anybody who have used the Asus add in cards could contribute.
Thanks!
here is a youtube video how to set up the bios with Thunderboltex 3
YouTube

Maybe you are lucky and can use the same method
Old 31st July 2018
  #74
Here for the gear
 
da Vinci's Avatar
 

Will be in my studio tomorrow and will try some different things. Thanks for your help. Going to look at that YouTube clip.
Old 31st July 2018
  #75
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
anybody knows if the Thunderbolt work through one of these ports:
USB 3.1 Gen 2 port(s) (Type-A + USB Type-CTM)

this motherboard:
Z170-PREMIUM | Motherboards | ASUS USA

I thought it had internal Thunderbolt 3 but it seems like it don't have it. I talked to Asus support who said that one these ports supports thunderbolt 2. This must be with an adapter like this I guess: Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)-til-Thunderbolt 2-adapter
Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter - Apple (NO)
You will need Asus ThunderboltEX 3
+
Amazon.com: StarTech.com Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter – Macbook and Windows Compatible: Computers & Accessories
+
Amazon.com: StarTech.com 2m Male to Male Thunderbolt Cable for Apple iMac and MacBook Pro, White (TBOLTMM2MW): Computers & Accessories
Old 1st August 2018
  #76
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by da Vinci View Post
Will be in my studio tomorrow and will try some different things. Thanks for your help. Going to look at that YouTube clip.
Make sure:

-Windows 10 is updated
-The motherboard BIOS is updated
-The Thunderbolt card firmware is updated
-The Thunderbolt card driver is updated
-The Antelope driver is updated

Good luck
Old 1st August 2018
  #77
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
You will need Asus ThunderboltEX 3
are you sure I need that?
Cause like I said the guy I talk to from Asus said that it can transfer thunderbolt 2 and the picture says thunderbolt Tm 3. I'm confused.
Motherboard picture:
http://i64.tinypic.com/9r2b0l.jpg

So the picture says Thunderbolt Tm 3
The specifications says 2 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 port(s) (Type-A + USB Type-CTM)
And my Asus motherboard info book says: USB 3.1 ports AR_C1

The motherboard is also listed here:
Products | Thunderbolt Technology Community
That is a list of all the official intel thunderbolt products.

will this fit in the USB 3.1 C port? The reason I ask is that I wanna check if the motherboard USB c port can transfer Thunderbolt information. If not I can use it on a ThunderboltEX 3. So my question is; will a Thunderport 3 cable fit inside a my USB C port....I'm pretty sure it will not transfer 40 GB per second but maybe 20 GB or something like that.
I think the confusion lays in the USB C port. My USB C port can transfer Thunderbolt information but a regular USB C port cannot transfer Thunderbolt information. But my USB C cannot transfer 40 Gb of Thunderbolt information but atleast 10 GB of Thunderbolt information. A regular USB C cannot transfer Thunderbolt information at all.....I'm guessing a little bit here.....
Old 1st August 2018
  #79
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
IF you want Thunderbolt functionality must buy ASUS ThunderboltEX 3
I hear what you are saying, I still think (hope) my motherboard has both a Thunderbolt header for the ThunderboltEX 3 and a USB C port that can handle Thunderbolt technology (I'm not talking about Thunderbolt 3, more like Thunderbolt 2 or Thunderbolt 1 technology). I will not accept that I have been fooled by ASUS I will get that answer from the Asus tech team soon I hope
Old 2nd August 2018
  #80
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
IF you want Thunderbolt functionality must buy ASUS ThunderboltEX 3 card
Today I got this mail from Asus:
Quote:
My name is Akime F. from ASUS Supervisor Support.


In regards to your USB thunderbolt query, our engineerring team has stated that the USB Type-C (TM) does support audio (Thunderbolt 3).

Explain yourself


By the way here is the picture that the support team send me in the same mail:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2wqvq5d.jpg
Old 3rd August 2018
  #81
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Today I got this mail from Asus:

Explain yourself

By the way here is the picture that the support team send me in the same mail:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2wqvq5d.jpg
That is a Thunderbolt 3 port!
Sorry, I got confused...
Somehow I mixed the Premium with the Prime...
Too much stuff in the mind, stress or some sort of "precocious senility"...
Old 3rd August 2018
  #82
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
That is a Thunderbolt 3 port!
Sorry, I got confused...
no worry I'm just happy it actually is a Thunderbolt port
Old 3 weeks ago
  #83
Here for the gear
Any estimates on the release date of a finished version of a driver?
Old 5 days ago
  #84
Gear Head
So far the latest FW seem solid and although I still have the dreaded USB disconnection issue I'm overall pretty happy w/ my GHD.

What's the word on the AFX2DAW for the GHD, will that be a purchase update?
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump