The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Kazrog releases KClip 3 Dynamics Plugins
Old 15th April 2018
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Morrison View Post
Sample rate 96 kHz
There's your issue. At that sample rate, you really don't need the quality set above 1 (2x oversampling.) KClip 3 will always render offline at max quality, so the quality slider is strictly there for realtime monitoring - go low and go Eco as needed!

KClip 3 is designed to degrade elegantly during buffer underrun (e.g., not spike your CPU meters erratically, not crash your host, etc.), hence you will get audio stuttering when your machine simply can't keep up, but overall things seem relatively normal otherwise. That's why. I worked hard to achieve this level of grace under pressure, but it's perhaps not what you're used to.

In general:
  1. Multiband is 4 instances of the heaviest lifting aspects of KClip in parallel. Lower quality settings will be essential unless you've got a fast, newer CPU.
  2. Higher sample rates are more taxing but don't need as much realtime oversampling to sound good.
  3. Low host buffer sizes are unrealistic for multiband mode unless (again) you have a fast CPU.
Old 15th April 2018
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
See my performance tips in the above post.
Seriously, that's not it.

It just sounds as though it's clipping with a low threshold under all circumstances. The CPU meter is barely scratching the sides. Sample rate 44.1kHz. Drum loop peaking at -12dB. I've taken it down to Quality 1, Eco mode on. Bypassed all bands. Mix at 0, Pre below 0, Threshold at 0dB - the sound doesn't change one bit and remains distorted. It doesn't sound like dropouts - just 0dBFS digital clipping.

Single band everything is fine.
Old 15th April 2018
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Hmm, that's definitely not normal. Please (you or anyone else experiencing issues with this release), include the following info:

Operating system / version / bits (32 or 64)
DAW (recording software) / version / bits (32 or 64)
CPU make/model/speed
Audio interface hardware
Sample rate and buffer size of your session when experiencing the issue (if applicable)

Thanks!
Old 15th April 2018
  #34
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
Hmm, that's definitely not normal. Please (you or anyone else experiencing issues with this release), include the following info:

Operating system / version / bits (32 or 64)
DAW (recording software) / version / bits (32 or 64)
CPU make/model/speed
Audio interface hardware
Sample rate and buffer size of your session when experiencing the issue (if applicable)

Thanks!
OS X 12.6, Live 10 and Logic X (64 bit both), Mac Pro 4,1 (flashed to 5,1), Focusrite Saffire Pro24DSP, 44.1kHz sample rate, buffer 256 (both hosts)
Old 15th April 2018
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Jpga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
You be the judge - blind. I did exactly as you described with a cheesy retrowave drum beat I have. One of these clips is KClip 2, and one of them is KClip 3.

Dropbox - KClip_Blind_Test.rar
I can push my KClip-2 harder then KClip-3
without damage to the audio file. What's going on here?
Old 15th April 2018
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Jpga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
Hmm, that's definitely not normal. Please (you or anyone else experiencing issues with this release), include the following info:

Operating system / version / bits (32 or 64)
DAW (recording software) / version / bits (32 or 64)
CPU make/model/speed
Audio interface hardware
Sample rate and buffer size of your session when experiencing the issue (if applicable)

Thanks!
El Capitan 10.11.6
Logic Pro X
Ableton live 10
Mac Pro
Motu
44.1
Buffer 1024
singel mode work on both system
Old 15th April 2018
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpga View Post
I can push my KClip-2 harder then KClip-3
without damage to the audio file. What's going on here?
So which clip sounds better to you, A or B?
Old 15th April 2018
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

PS - I'll be investigating the (seemingly Mac specific) issues, and hopefully posting a fix within the week. Thanks for your help!
Old 15th April 2018
  #39
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
So which clip sounds better to you, A or B?


After listing to A and B i can not hear any difference and even if it is there it is not audible to be relevant.

Some people actually listen with their eyes due to the GUI but not with with their ears.
Old 15th April 2018
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Jpga's Avatar
 

2 bar each in the following order KClip-2, Clip-3, JST Clip, Big Clipper, Elysia Alpha compressor, Cytomic The Glue, My Motu In/Out with 2 cables.
Level -14 Katz

All Plugin s by Testavljud | Free Listening on SoundCloud

I want KClip-3 to be perfect!
Old 15th April 2018
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpga View Post
2 bar each in the following order KClip-2, Clip-3, JST Clip, Big Clipper, Elysia Alpha compressor, Cytomic The Glue, My Motu In/Out with 2 cables.
Level -14 Katz

All Plugin s by Testavljud | Free Listening on SoundCloud

I want KClip-3 to be perfect!
If you could post a lossless WAV file of this comparison, it would be more appropriate for this kind of subtle deep listening test. FWIW, on my ATH M50x headphones (as not to wake up my wife and kid with your killer beats), I couldn't hear a difference between any of these plugins from your SoundCloud clip to feel confident I'd pass a blind test - especially between KClip 2 and 3. And several producers have accused me of having "golden ears" - a term I am flattered by the sentiment of, but reject outright in concept, since scientifically it's absolute bull****.

I'm sorry you weren't happy with KClip 3. Your refund has been processed as per your request. I wish you the best in life and music!
Old 15th April 2018
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Jpga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
If you could post a lossless WAV file of this comparison, it would be more appropriate for this kind of subtle deep listening test. FWIW, on my ATH M50x headphones (as not to wake up my wife and kid with your killer beats), I couldn't hear a difference between any of these plugins from your SoundCloud clip to feel confident I'd pass a blind test - especially between KClip 2 and 3. And several producers have accused me of having "golden ears" - a term I am flattered by the sentiment of, but reject outright in concept, since scientifically it's absolute bull****.

I'm sorry you weren't happy with KClip 3. Your refund has been processed as per your request. I wish you the best in life and music!
No problem!
I send a high resolution file to you so you can hear the diffrent. It feels like KClip-3 eats the base before it goes over and distorts. I will have my eyes open and when it works for me I will buy it. As I said early KClip-2 is my best friend and use it in every track.

All the best,,
JP
Old 15th April 2018
  #43
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpga View Post
No problem!
I send a high resolution file to you so you can hear the diffrent. It feels like KClip-3 eats the base before it goes over and distorts. I will have my eyes open and when it works for me I will buy it. As I said early KClip-2 is my best friend and use it in every track.

All the best,,
JP
I feel the exact opposite.

KC3 CAN be KC2... but manages to extract much more.

That said, the modes outside smooth and crisp distort. some of them (eg. germanium) distort REALLY bad.
Old 15th April 2018
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tan View Post
I feel the exact opposite.

KC3 CAN be KC2... but manages to extract much more.

That said, the modes outside smooth and crisp distort. some of them (eg. germanium) distort REALLY bad.
Germanium, Silicon, and Guitar Amp are designed specifically to distort like crazy. They're intended for use on tracks and stems, parts of a multiband instance, etc. not masters.
Old 15th April 2018
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZangTumblyTumble View Post
OS X 12.6, Live 10 and Logic X (64 bit both), Mac Pro 4,1 (flashed to 5,1), Focusrite Saffire Pro24DSP, 44.1kHz sample rate, buffer 256 (both hosts)
Have you tried a higher buffer size? I have a Mac Mini 6,1 (currently on High Sierra) that I use for testing/development for macOS, and I can't get KClip 3 to misbehave at all in Logic X or Live 10, even at buffer sizes as low as 64 (on an ancient G1 Apogee Duet no less!) If I go down to 32, my humble i5 based Mini won't keep up with the stock demo session in Live, so I figure that's below what would be considered any reasonable testing condition.

I'd really like to resolve this issue, but if I can't recreate it, I can't fix it. I have a couple of friends with older "cheese grater" Mac Pro based rigs, but neither of them reported any issues during beta. I'll follow up with them, though, to stress test multiband and see what happens.

I will say this, as an aside - if you're running an aforementioned Mac Pro such as the 4,1/5,1, the sun is setting rapidly on that hardware spec, and you may begin to have trouble with many next-gen plugins (not just KClip 3.) It's too bad Apple have thrown pros under the bus - I am sympathetic to the fact you guys are left with no direct upgrade path.
Old 15th April 2018
  #46
Lives for gear
 

I downloaded the latest version today after seeing the update about presets. I didn't get it before because I wasn't that bothered about the presets themselves but thought trying a new install might have some effect. It has. Quality 1 in multiband is now OK. Anything above that and it sounds like it's aliasing really badly (though the CPU usage doesn't indicate anything that suggests it's close to causing dropouts).

I did install the public beta but never got around to testing it before installing the RC - I'm wondering whether an installer issue prevented the earlier package from being overwritten completely and so there was some code mismatch that led to the initial problem. The VST now shows a date of 01/01/1970, which is interesting. But it's working OK (other than the quality setting thing).

In terms of hardware, the reality is a trashcan right now doesn't make sense for me and 2019 looks to be the earliest point at which a Mac-based upgrade is realistic assuming Apple stick to their plan.
Old 15th April 2018
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

My Mac build machine is using APFS, so if you're using Mac OS Extended Journaled file system still, that could explain modification date anomalies.
Old 16th April 2018
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
Hmm, that's definitely not normal. Please (you or anyone else experiencing issues with this release), include the following info:

Operating system / version / bits (32 or 64)
DAW (recording software) / version / bits (32 or 64)
CPU make/model/speed
Audio interface hardware
Sample rate and buffer size of your session when experiencing the issue (if applicable)

Thanks!
OSX 10.12.6
64
Logic 10.4.1 / 64bit
MBPro Retina 3.1GHZ, i7
Core Audio or RME Fireface
44.1 project
1024 buffer size
Old 16th April 2018
  #49
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
KClip 3 will always render offline at max quality
IMHO this is wrong. You should at least have this as an option (like The Glue).

Why? Because why would i want my mixes (be it at 44khz, or 96, or in between) to sound different after rendering and different to what i was hearing and making choices while i mixed my project?

Note: i am well aware that 32X will yield kinda cleaner result, anti aliasing etc. But again, maybe i want to work at 96khz, and maybe i liked sound of kclip at 96 khz with no oversampling at all and when i was driving it to hell. And maybe possibly there is some gunk/aliasing noise or whatever - which i liked for artistic reason.

Rendering Kclip at 32X will likely spit out different sound. Subtle but different.

Either way this tiny bit is completely stopping me to order your plugin. I want full control over my sound and over my renderings. No "foolproof" settings needed in my mixing thank you.

Note i am not whining but you should at least consider my point of view on this one.

Cheers.
Old 16th April 2018
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmein View Post
IMHO this is wrong. You should at least have this as an option (like The Glue).
I appreciate your feedback, but that is already the plan. There is an options panel coming soon, and you'll be able to specify the offline render mode to your liking at any time there. Max quality offline render is the default, but the setting will be user adjustable very soon!

I should have mentioned that - my bad!
Old 16th April 2018
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Thanks for info.
Old 17th April 2018
  #52
Lives for gear
 

For how long will the discount (KClip 2 Pro owner here) last?
Old 17th April 2018
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdilletteMan View Post
For how long will the discount (KClip 2 Pro owner here) last?
There's no plan to let the discount expire. I suppose if you waited until KClip 4 or 5 came out, your discount level would decrease, but I'm never going to pretend you weren't a customer or something lame like that.
Old 18th April 2018
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
There's no plan to let the discount expire. I suppose if you waited until KClip 4 or 5 came out, your discount level would decrease, but I'm never going to pretend you weren't a customer or something lame like that.
Wow, thanks. Classy!
Old 18th April 2018
  #55
Logic Pro 10.4.1 on mac mini 2012 with high sierra latest build. I also get crackles like others mentioned when working in multi band option. Just one track loaded cpu consumption almost none, working in eco mode. Hope you can get this sorted soon as multiband feature is the one I waited the most.
Old 19th April 2018
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by janiq View Post
Logic Pro 10.4.1 on mac mini 2012 with high sierra latest build. I also get crackles like others mentioned when working in multi band option. Just one track loaded cpu consumption almost none, working in eco mode. Hope you can get this sorted soon as multiband feature is the one I waited the most.
Same exact setup here, working fine in multiband mode. The quality slider isn't behaving as it should, though, but that's not specific to multiband mode.

I'd like to get a bug fix out next week, but I can't recreate the crackling audio in multiband mode that others are experiencing, in any buffer size or sample rate so far. I am running High Sierra 10.13.2, but I will install 10.13.3 tonight to see if that changes anything.
Old 19th April 2018
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
I'd like to get a bug fix out next week, but I can't recreate the crackling audio in multiband mode that others are experiencing, in any buffer size or sample rate so far. I am running High Sierra 10.13.2, but I will install 10.13.3 tonight to see if that changes anything.
Not sure if you want to try latest HS but that is 10.13.4
Old 19th April 2018
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld View Post
Not sure if you want to try latest HS but that is 10.13.4
Annoying. The App Store isn't even working properly to update to 10.13.3 at the moment, nor is there any mention of a later version. I miss the days when Apple had some semblance of quality control. Going to keep at it...
Old 19th April 2018
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
Annoying. The App Store isn't even working properly to update to 10.13.3 at the moment, nor is there any mention of a later version. I miss the days when Apple had some semblance of quality control. Going to keep at it...
Download macOS High Sierra 10.13.4 Combo Update

Hope that works although by the look of the URL it might somehow be linked to Australia where I live.
Still, just search 10.13.4 in support and you will get it if this doesn't work for you in the USA.

Good luck
Old 19th April 2018
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Kazrog's Avatar
 

Thanks! Yeah I'm already just manually grabbing the DMG. Appreciate the link, though!
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump