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Oeksound spiff - An adaptive transient processor Dynamics Plugins
Old 13th April 2018
  #61
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Keith Moore's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Me too. instant buy if so.
Me three!!!
Old 13th April 2018
  #62
Gear Head
 

I am looking forward to trying this out.

Add me to the crowd that would like control over the sustain portion of the signal as well.

Regarding the switch to ilok, i couldn't be happier. I am actually just now getting to installing soothe that I purchased a few months back and its crashing cubase and generally being a headache. Ilok will make this much easier imo.
Old 13th April 2018
  #63
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Jantex's Avatar
 

I tried it yesterday and I am sorry to say it, but Sonnox Envolution sounded much better for me in every single example I tried them.
Old 13th April 2018
  #64
Gear Maniac
 

Opposite. So happy to see iLok. Authorization is such a pain in the ass without things like iLok and the way Waves/Plugin Alliance does things. I guess if you're just sitting at home it might not matter, but I know almost no-one that only uses one system. iLok is a life saver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayyy View Post
Cannot express enough how disappointed I am to read that they're going with iLok.
Spiff looks great and I'd love to have it in my toolkit, but just like Soundtoys, Oeksound just lost me. iLok boycott, no exceptions.
Old 13th April 2018
  #65
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syra's Avatar
I’ll demo when sustain is implemented.
Old 13th April 2018
  #66
Gear Nut
 

Nice plug but not a must.
With a discount coupon for Soothe owners I'd go for it...
Old 13th April 2018
  #67
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mljung's Avatar
Hmm ilok demo trouble - the spiff demo simply doesn't work in Wavelab 9 on my machine (Win7). I have several other ilok plugins working just fine, but spiff won't. In Reaper spiff runs as expected

I contacted support yesterday, but no answer yet.
Edit: just heard from oek support

::
Mads

PS: don't have a physical ilok, i use ilok license manager
Attached Thumbnails
Oeksound spiff - An adaptive transient processor-spiff-trouble.jpg  
Old 13th April 2018
  #68
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Gemylon's Avatar
@ tgrohn


Please give us a comment ...

Any chance for an extra discount for Soothe users ?


We'd appreciate that yes









Last edited by Gemylon; 13th April 2018 at 12:23 PM..
Old 13th April 2018
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

This wont be going anywhere near my mixes.smearus maximus

I wonder if they'll ever get the windowing and FFT size dynamically variable in spectral processing(in general,not just with Spiff)so it doesn't produce these signature artefacts

Or at least split the processing up so the reconstruction of transients could be done with wavelets and the sustain using FFT (which it fairs better with)

Last edited by Idontcare; 13th April 2018 at 01:05 PM.. Reason: Expanding upon thought
Old 13th April 2018
  #70
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
This wont be going anywhere near my mixes.smearus maximus

I wonder if they'll ever get the windowing and FFT size dynamically variable in spectral processing(in general,not just with Spiff)so it doesn't produce these signature artefacts

Or at least split the processing up so the reconstruction of transients could be done with wavelets and the sustain using FFT (which it fairs better with)
Interesting topic! Many different models, including the wavelet-based ones, were investigated before ending up with the current implementation. As you likely already know, the computationally efficient implementation of wavelet transform has its own artifacts that appear as soon as you begin to alter the coefficients relative to each other.

There is always a compromise somewhere, as we have to consider usability, computational complexity (spiff is already somewhat heavy on the CPU), sound quality and in this case, the optimal tradeoff between frequency and time resolution. The "window" parameter lets you fine-tune this tradeoff to some extent.
Old 13th April 2018
  #71
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemylon View Post
@ tgrohn


Please give us a comment ...

Any chance for an extra discount for Soothe users ?


We'd appreciate that yes








Unfortunately, no. We have the same already discounted intro price for everyone.
Old 13th April 2018
  #72
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UmFuFu View Post
Thanks for the answer. And great to hear that it's a possible addition! In short, having this kind of control over the transients made me wish for the same for the sustains.

I found that (even while playing with the demo for just a few minutes) I was able to make the transients pop in such a great way that it made me want to enhance them even further by shortening the sustains. But being able to lengthen the sustains would be equally important in a different situation.

It's a great tool, that I think could get even greater with control over sustains as well.

Cheers.
Thanks for these! The cases you described are already possible with some creativity, although the definition of "sustain" can be quite subjective. In this case, let's just define the sustain as residual after transients, i.e. dry - transients.

This is how I would cook that stuff:

To shorten the sustain: toggle on the delta and cut mode, crank the depth to max and then play with the mix control to find a good balance.

To lengthen the sustain: set the sidechain EQ flat (possibly boost some lows with a shelf), turn off the delta, toggle on the cut mode and crank the depth to the max again. Then, set the mix to 0% and crank the trim to the max. Increase the mix amount until you have enough boost for the sustain. If you want more control over the frequency area that's affected, set up a parallel routing where you have filtered out the the frequency areas that should be left untouched. In this case, set the mix to 100% and trim to 0 dB.

The sustain can be shortened in a frequency-dependent manner by using the same parallel routing and playing with flipped phase.
Old 13th April 2018
  #73
Gear Nut
 

Is there a way to link several of the frequency points? For example: I like the bandwith of the presets for highlighting the pluck sound in electric guitars. However for my taste the frequency points are a bit too low. I would like to shift the whole thing upwards while keeping the same bandwith (of course I can do this manually but it would be handy to be able to select all of the frequency points and simply shift them a bit to the right...)

Great sounding plugin!

Also and somewhat unrelated: I remember a discussion with Soothe about the idea of making it more suitable for low frequencies as well. Have these plans been scratched or are you guys working on it?
Old 13th April 2018
  #74
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrohn View Post
Interesting topic! Many different models, including the wavelet-based ones, were investigated before ending up with the current implementation. As you likely already know, the computationally efficient implementation of wavelet transform has its own artifacts that appear as soon as you begin to alter the coefficients relative to each other.

There is always a compromise somewhere, as we have to consider usability, computational complexity (spiff is already somewhat heavy on the CPU), sound quality and in this case, the optimal tradeoff between frequency and time resolution. The "window" parameter lets you fine-tune this tradeoff to some extent.

Differing philosophies i guess.transients for me are pretty much all about the time resolution.i personally can't abide spectral attacks and i've tried all sorts of "tricks"like spectrally gating/expanding that portion of the envelope then doing some very convoluted upwards type processing to try salvage as much of the original snap i can but with the precision of FFT.i usually give up and just opt to do without

I could possibly see me using it in a creative context,but the artefacts are too glaring for me personally to consider this a mixing tool (not just Spiff,but most all spectral processing plugins that perform some sort of utilitarian task)
Old 13th April 2018
  #75
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
Is there a way to link several of the frequency points? For example: I like the bandwith of the presets for highlighting the pluck sound in electric guitars. However for my taste the frequency points are a bit too low. I would like to shift the whole thing upwards while keeping the same bandwith (of course I can do this manually but it would be handy to be able to select all of the frequency points and simply shift them a bit to the right...)

Great sounding plugin!

Also and somewhat unrelated: I remember a discussion with Soothe about the idea of making it more suitable for low frequencies as well. Have these plans been scratched or are you guys working on it?
Hi Billy,

Great to hear that you like it! Yes, it's possible to adjust multiple EQ nodes at once. Just draw a rectangle on the graph that contains all nodes you would like to adjust. Another way of selecting multiple nodes at once is to shift+click on them.

About soothe, a new major version with better low frequency handling is definitely coming at some point!
Old 13th April 2018
  #76
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrohn View Post
This is how I would cook that stuff:

To shorten the sustain: toggle on the delta and cut mode, crank the depth to max and then play with the mix control to find a good balance.

To lengthen the sustain: set the sidechain EQ flat (possibly boost some lows with a shelf), turn off the delta, toggle on the cut mode and crank the depth to the max again. Then, set the mix to 0% and crank the trim to the max. Increase the mix amount until you have enough boost for the sustain. If you want more control over the frequency area that's affected, set up a parallel routing where you have filtered out the the frequency areas that should be left untouched. In this case, set the mix to 100% and trim to 0 dB.

The sustain can be shortened in a frequency-dependent manner by using the same parallel routing and playing with flipped phase.
Thanks for the tips.

Weren't you saying that you wanted to keep things intuitive though? From a users perspective, I think it would be easier to understand on-screen controls (or another collapsable window) that handle the sustain portion of a sound then using these methods... But I'll spend some more time with what you wrote above for now thanks.

Last edited by UmFuFu; 13th April 2018 at 05:38 PM..
Old 13th April 2018
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

Now im concerned. How do you hear those artifacts? Maybe im dumb to hear them?

do you mean the WATERY/Bubbly sound? i wonder why those are? what is the purpose if you cannot dial a bit more depth when you get those halfway mostly? makes it pretty much useless plugin..... i was so hyped first but now demoing even more this is a heavy bummer..... sure if you use sharpness etc. about 50% max you dont hear it mostly but over 50% it gets very prominent.
Old 13th April 2018
  #78
Gear Head
 

What would be the sonic and functional difference between this product and the SPL Transient Designer? (Other than the fact that the TD can also do sustain).
Thanks for clarifying!

Last edited by Rockstar1; 14th April 2018 at 03:13 PM..
Old 14th April 2018
  #79
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blackcom's Avatar
 

What do you use this plugin for typically?
Old 14th April 2018
  #80
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macc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockstar1 View Post
What would be the difference between this product and the SPL Transient Designer?
Thanks for clarifying!
SPL = full band

Spiff = many band (ie adaptive eq)


I see them as practically completely different tools. If I want full band spankitude then I use the Elysia Nvelope HW. If I want a little tickling to smooth things out/bring out detail then this is great. Using it to soften mostly so far though. Great for 808 hi hats.

A bit like Soothe. It's great when it's right, but sometimes a normal eq / de-esser is a much better fit. It depends.

A pretty important note on the 'watery' effect someone mentioned - agreed and it is a downside of this approach to processing. But using the delta function and the window/resolution settings can get you in a better place faster. Lower sharpness is always better for the audio. I have come to like Soothe more the less clever it tries to be, so avoiding high sharpness/selectivity unless absolutely necessary.

Kind of related (feedback for oeksound), I think an option for a MUCH increased vertical zoom on the GUI would be good. On Soothe as well. +/-6dB would be great, +/-3dB even better. As it is it might be doing stuff that doesn't really show up, so subconsciously you want to do more, which leads to more obvious side effects. I'm pretty much never going to do 18dB of anything.
Old 14th April 2018
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
Han Solo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayyy View Post
Cannot express enough how disappointed I am to read that they're going with iLok.
Spiff looks great and I'd love to have it in my toolkit, but just like Soundtoys, Oeksound just lost me. iLok boycott, no exceptions.
LOL

I don't understand peoples who don't want ilok...

It's the most simple protection tool ever.
I can move in different studios and use my tool with a simple plug and play, no serial, etc etc...

Sorry for my english
Old 14th April 2018
  #82
Old 14th April 2018
  #83
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BM Grabber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
I could possibly see me using it in a creative context,but the artefacts are too glaring for me personally to consider this a mixing tool (not just Spiff,but most all spectral processing plugins that perform some sort of utilitarian task)
And that's why (for me anyway) it is a big gap between Mixing tools and Fixing tools....
... Waaay to many plugins these days are in the bag of "Fixing" tools IMO.
Old 14th April 2018
  #84
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Gemylon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
I tried it yesterday and I am sorry to say it, but Sonnox Envolution sounded much better for me in every single example I tried them.

Interesting !

I've had no time to check out Spiff yet, but I got the Sonnox and its certainly excellent.



Old 14th April 2018
  #85
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caine View Post
Now im concerned. How do you hear those artifacts? Maybe im dumb to hear them?

do you mean the WATERY/Bubbly sound? i wonder why those are? what is the purpose if you cannot dial a bit more depth when you get those halfway mostly? makes it pretty much useless plugin..... i was so hyped first but now demoing even more this is a heavy bummer..... sure if you use sharpness etc. about 50% max you dont hear it mostly but over 50% it gets very prominent.
Turn down "Sensitivity" in Delta mode until you only hear the transient that you want to work on. You can get rid of most of the Bubbly sounds. But yeah, I agree the algorithm could need some de-bubblying lines of code.
Old 14th April 2018
  #86
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrohn View Post
Hi Billy,

Great to hear that you like it! Yes, it's possible to adjust multiple EQ nodes at once. Just draw a rectangle on the graph that contains all nodes you would like to adjust. Another way of selecting multiple nodes at once is to shift+click on them.

About soothe, a new major version with better low frequency handling is definitely coming at some point!
Works great, thanks!
Old 14th April 2018
  #87
Lives for gear
 
allstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
I tried it yesterday and I am sorry to say it, but Sonnox Envolution sounded much better for me in every single example I tried them.
For what it's worth, I'm making the same comparison and not finding it as clear cut. I have used neither before and am largely testing the ability of both to improve inadequacies in recordings such as too much stick sound in overheads or too much pick noise in acoustic guitar mics. Spiff was preferable to me in the sticky overhead problem, Envolution just had the edge on the guitar.

Both are excellent though and I shall be buying one or the other at the end of their iLok demos.
Old 14th April 2018
  #88
OMU
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Not tried this one but, AFAICT Sonnox, which is indeed a superb tool, has a much limited eq section.
Old 14th April 2018
  #89
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrohn View Post
Unfortunately, no. We have the same already discounted intro price for everyone.
That's too bad.
Old 14th April 2018
  #90
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doom64's Avatar
To all the people knocking iLok...perhaps if "oeksound soothe c__ck" wasn't the second Google search result then they wouldn't have needed to go that route?

If people were just a bit more honest with their software use and paid for the tools they used then PACE would cease to exist. But unfortunately, people will steal whenever they can get away with and down go the sales.

Carry on...
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