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Steinberg announces UR-RT2 and UR-RT4 interfaces Audio Interfaces
Old 29th April 2018
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I understand that different mics have different maximum output levels. But it's also due to different sensitivity levels. The TLM 102 outputting even just +4dBu would see an SPL of 134dB. That's threshold of pain-level. At +14dBu it's seeing an SPL of around 146dB, which is like standing close to a jet.


source

The other thing is that it is a pre amplifier, so we do expect to amplify the signal. Since this "maximum input level" seems to refer to what goes into inputs 1/2 we still aim to increase the level using the preamp. If we don't need to do that then we don't need the preamp to begin with.



But isn't the above true only if you blow past the specs though? The specs refer to a range within which distortion (for example) is minimal. If it says that the maximum input level is +4dBu then the point is that it distorts beyond that point. +4dBu is the onset of distortion. If you're below that value then you're not getting "less distortion" with the Clarett; because neither is distorting.

If there still is a difference then a different measurement would show that.

PS: I'm not saying the Clarett isn't an overall better buy, or that a higher maximum arguably wouldn't be better, just that I'm reading or interpreting this differently than you.

I think it'll be easy enough to see if this is a good investment once people start buying it and using it.

Its always better to have more headroom than a device that's limiting it. As I said before, I notice a significant differences between the Scarlett vs the Forte that are both USB interfaces made by the same manufacture. The Forte competes directly with the Apogee Duet 2 as its no comparison to the Scarlett range which is leaps head in conversion and mic pre performance. The Edirol UA-25EX that I had years ago, easily clips even with the gain turned half way or noisy if the signal going into it was low when I crank it. The Scarlett that replaced it was much better. Now, the Clarett 8 Pre is replacing my old Scarlett 18i20 which is also leaps ahead of it that's on the same level as my Forte with the exception being a Thunderbolt interface. The Scarlett and the UA-25EX are more on the low end budget side that you can still make decent recordings with. Rupert Neve's collaborations has generally been high end equipment, the specs are quite low for an interface by today's standards with the rest of the competition to add transformers to it. It would make better sense if those transformers were in the RME Babyface Pro, the Clarett or Apogee Duet 2. To me, it just doesn't fit right for the interface that was chosen to implement the design. Even the new AVB Motu interfaces are leaps ahead of the competition using the ESS Sabre 32bit DAC chip esp the new UltraLite-Mk4 thats about $595.
Old 29th April 2018
  #62
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Ok. We haven't heard the device so as for me I'll just reserve my judgement 'til then.
Old 29th April 2018
  #63
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Gérald B.'s Avatar
 

YouTube
Old 30th April 2018
  #64
I'm struggling to see specifically what the transformer is doing in this circuit. It doesn't seem like it's changing impedance or balancing the signal, so it's functionally useless, no? I assume this is a 1:1 transfo? Unless I'm missing something, this seems like the 2018 equivalent of all those starved-plate "toob" mic preamps that saturated the market in the early 2000s, not like an actual "Neve" design...
Old 30th April 2018
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
I'm struggling to see specifically what the transformer is doing in this circuit. It doesn't seem like it's changing impedance or balancing the signal, so it's functionally useless, no? I assume this is a 1:1 transfo? Unless I'm missing something, this seems like the 2018 equivalent of all those starved-plate "toob" mic preamps that saturated the market in the early 2000s, not like an actual "Neve" design...
It's there to give you the sound of the transformer. That's about it as far as I can see.
Old 30th April 2018
  #66
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kasami08's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
I'm struggling to see specifically what the transformer is doing in this circuit. It doesn't seem like it's changing impedance or balancing the signal, so it's functionally useless, no? I assume this is a 1:1 transfo? Unless I'm missing something, this seems like the 2018 equivalent of all those starved-plate "toob" mic preamps that saturated the market in the early 2000s, not like an actual "Neve" design...
Yeah its not going to sound anywhere near an actual real classic Neve Pre amp since the transformers on a Neve pre amp are on both the Input and and Output. This Yamaha interface is still using the Yamaha D-Pre amp circuit with the Neve designed input transformer in the signal chain before it hits the AD converter. So its not a "Neve" designed mic pre amp. The older Focusrite ISA 430 MK1 had the classic neve design of the original ISA 110 that Neve designed before he sold the company as it had transformers on both the inputs and outputs. The ISA MKII and the rest of the modern ISA's only have the transformers in the input taking away that classic sound from the originals. I guess they did that to cut down on cost. Mean while, the transformer-less Clarett and Red interfaces models the input independence of the AIR feature found on the ISA 430 MKII, through an analog circuit design in the signal chain. Focusrite seems to market these interfaces of having that classic ISA sound but, really its a marketing gimmick and sort of misleading as its not modeling the entire ISA mic pre nor it has transformers. Its just modeling an input independence feature from the ISA line. Works best on darker micophones.
Old 30th April 2018
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasami08 View Post
Yeah its not going to sound anywhere near an actual real classic Neve Pre amp since the transformers on a Neve pre amp are on both the Input and and Output. This Yamaha interface is still using the Yamaha D-Pre amp circuit with the Neve designed input transformer in the signal chain before it hits the AD converter. So its not a "Neve" designed mic pre amp. The older Focusrite ISA 430 MK1 had the classic neve design of the original ISA 110 that Neve designed before he sold the company as it had transformers on both the inputs and outputs. The ISA MKII and the rest of the modern ISA's only have the transformers in the input taking away that classic sound from the originals. I guess they did that to cut down on cost. Mean while, the transformer-less Clarett and Red interfaces models the input independence of the AIR feature found on the ISA 430 MKII, through an analog circuit design in the signal chain. Focusrite seems to market these interfaces of having that classic ISA sound but, really its a marketing gimmick and sort of misleading as its not modeling the entire ISA mic pre nor it has transformers. Its just modeling an input independence feature from the ISA line. Works best on darker micophones.
Thanks kasami and mattias, seems like this is indeed just a 5532 opamp design with a marketing gimmick that adds a bit of harmonic distortion. I was interested in something in this format/size, but think I'll look instead at the Antelope or Audient offerings.
Old 30th April 2018
  #68
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Hard to tell with youtube compression, but this demo is rather disappointing. Not expecting miracles, but really struggling to hear the value of the transformers.
Old 30th April 2018
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncite View Post
Hard to tell with youtube compression, but this demo is rather disappointing. Not expecting miracles, but really struggling to hear the value of the transformers.
I felt the difference was pretty clear even though it was a YouTube video.

The whole concept of using a device for color when tracking is typically one out of two things; it's either for heavy processing, which Neve pres for the most part weren't used for, or it's because the sound is generally pleasant and when stacking multiple recorded tracks the 'sound' adds up.

In this case we actually haven't heard just what happens if you drive the unit harder. It seems to be engineered to prevent that from happening so any 'sound' that comes from overdriving the circuits is probably out of reach for the consumer. It would essentially require a mic pre gain option and an output attenuation option after that. Clearly things weren't pushed in the video.

The other option would be to record a great deal of tracks, and so perhaps we'll hear examples of band recording with/without the transformer in the path. With an a/b like that we might be able to better hear the difference.

So I understand why some would find it disappointing if they expected a bigger difference. Perhaps we'll hear a bigger difference in later tests.
Old 30th April 2018
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
Thanks kasami and mattias, seems like this is indeed just a 5532 opamp design with a marketing gimmick that adds a bit of harmonic distortion. I was interested in something in this format/size, but think I'll look instead at the Antelope or Audient offerings.
I don't really think it's a gimmick though. It's more a matter of whether or not the device does what you need. If the Antelope doesn't have transformers designed by Neve on the inputs, and that's what a user wants, then by definition the Antelope won't qualify.

As far as I can tell they're now aiming at different goals: Antelope = just clean, This interface = pretty (but probably less) clean or Neve transformer sound ("light").

Different goals it seems.
Old 30th April 2018
  #71
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kasami08's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I don't really think it's a gimmick though. It's more a matter of whether or not the device does what you need. If the Antelope doesn't have transformers designed by Neve on the inputs, and that's what a user wants, then by definition the Antelope won't qualify.

As far as I can tell they're now aiming at different goals: Antelope = just clean, This interface = pretty (but probably less) clean or Neve transformer sound ("light").

Different goals it seems.


The two interfaces aren't in the same league though. UR interfaces are more on the Prosumer side while the Antelope more on the mid grade to high end. Two different ball games. As I said before Neve collaborations generally has been done with high end equipment and would made sense if this was design was implement on a higher end interface. Perhaps if Rupert designed the "Mic Pre" for an interface that would be even better.
Old 30th April 2018
  #72
JAT
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The whole point of the Neve transformer is, well, to add some of that transformer "rounding" to the sound of a basic interface pre. Nothing wrong w/ a clean pre, but when I moved at home to a ISA One > Warm > Portico II I understood what had been missing. It isn't necessarily "better" as much as different, which becomes another sound tool, too, and useful for differentiating lead sound, for example.

I imagine it could be useful as above, without spending multiples of what you pay for your interface to get an outboard pre to get a hint of a nice, transfomer coupled sound.
Old 1st May 2018
  #73
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Uncite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I felt the difference was pretty clear even though it was a YouTube video.

The whole concept of using a device for color when tracking is typically one out of two things; it's either for heavy processing, which Neve pres for the most part weren't used for, or it's because the sound is generally pleasant and when stacking multiple recorded tracks the 'sound' adds up.

In this case we actually haven't heard just what happens if you drive the unit harder. It seems to be engineered to prevent that from happening so any 'sound' that comes from overdriving the circuits is probably out of reach for the consumer. It would essentially require a mic pre gain option and an output attenuation option after that. Clearly things weren't pushed in the video.

The other option would be to record a great deal of tracks, and so perhaps we'll hear examples of band recording with/without the transformer in the path. With an a/b like that we might be able to better hear the difference.

So I understand why some would find it disappointing if they expected a bigger difference. Perhaps we'll hear a bigger difference in later tests.
Just revisited the demo on youtube, and I'd like to correct my statement. I do hear a difference afterall. The bottom is a bit "rounder" and signal overall more pleasing in the transformer example. Again, I was not expecting any miracles, and I did listen with tired ears in the first round.

As you point out, pushing the transformer will probably be difficult since there is no gain option between the transformer and the converter. This would have been a very useful option.

Still considering this as a compact option to record my synths with a little color added, but I am not sure if it might be better to invest in some 500 stuff in my case.
As a portable solution, I can see this being a great choice for many people.
Old 1st May 2018
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncite View Post
Just revisited the demo on youtube, and I'd like to correct my statement. I do hear a difference afterall. The bottom is a bit "rounder" and signal overall more pleasing in the transformer example. Again, I was not expecting any miracles, and I did listen with tired ears in the first round.

As you point out, pushing the transformer will probably be difficult since there is no gain option between the transformer and the converter. This would have been a very useful option.

Still considering this as a compact option to record my synths with a little color added, but I am not sure if it might be better to invest in some 500 stuff in my case.
As a portable solution, I can see this being a great choice for many people.
Agreed. And another thing is that rather than thinking of this as a new converter/interface it's more of an update to a previous one. So really it's more about the transformer adding value to a product line than it is Steinberg releasing a high-end device.
Old 11th May 2018
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Agreed. And another thing is that rather than thinking of this as a new converter/interface it's more of an update to a previous one. So really it's more about the transformer adding value to a product line than it is Steinberg releasing a high-end device.
I dont think that RN chip will do miracles, it is definitelly not worth the money as this cant be your main recording soundcard due to connection options missing. For that price Scarlett or Clarett USB all the way
Old 11th May 2018
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman View Post
I dont think that RN chip will do miracles,
Transformer... not "chip".

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman View Post
it is definitelly not worth the money as this cant be your main recording soundcard due to connection options missing. For that price Scarlett or Clarett USB all the way
To each their own.
Old 12th May 2018
  #77
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freezerman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman View Post
I dont think that RN chip will do miracles, it is definitelly not worth the money as this cant be your main recording soundcard due to connection options missing. For that price Scarlett or Clarett USB all the way
No one can say one way or the other until the unit is out and has been thouroghly tested. Not everyone’s uses and needs are the same from an interface.
Old 12th May 2018
  #78
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gérald B. View Post
I think the recording sounds rather good, clean and punchy with the transformer engaged.
Old 1st June 2018
  #79
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Which one of you brave souls has one of these interfaces?
I'd love to know what the round trip DAW latency is in milliseconds at 128 samples, 48khz. Not interested in using Yamaha's FX as I have many 0 latency VSTs that do a better job.
Old 4th June 2018
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay View Post
Which one of you brave souls has one of these interfaces?
I'd love to know what the round trip DAW latency is in milliseconds at 128 samples, 48khz. Not interested in using Yamaha's FX as I have many 0 latency VSTs that do a better job.
I have one incoming. Will post rtl results when i test it.
Old 4th June 2018
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxmaestro View Post
I have one incoming. Will post rtl results when i test it.

Thank you! I look forward to it.

If you could also confirm or deny if it has Standalone operation capabilities. It is not mentioned in the manual, but I wonder if it is possible to use the 4 transformer inputs through to 4 outputs, in standalone, to use the unit as a simple Neve transformer line driver.

Cheers!
Old 5th June 2018
  #82
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kasami08's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay View Post
Thank you! I look forward to it.

If you could also confirm or deny if it has Standalone operation capabilities. It is not mentioned in the manual, but I wonder if it is possible to use the 4 transformer inputs through to 4 outputs, in standalone, to use the unit as a simple Neve transformer line driver.

Cheers!

Nope. If it doesn't say in the manual. If it was a rack mounted interface it would be possible. And no these interfaces wouldn't sound another like a real Neve or Focusrite ISA transformer mic pre amp. The original and older ISA 430 had both input and output transformers to give it its color just like the Neve mic pre amps.
Old 5th June 2018
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasami08 View Post
Nope. If it doesn't say in the manual. If it was a rack mounted interface it would be possible. And no these interfaces wouldn't sound another like a real Neve or Focusrite ISA transformer mic pre amp. The original and older ISA 430 had both input and output transformers to give it its color just like the Neve mic pre amps.
You do love Focusrite
Old 5th June 2018
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay View Post
Thank you! I look forward to it.

If you could also confirm or deny if it has Standalone operation capabilities. It is not mentioned in the manual, but I wonder if it is possible to use the 4 transformer inputs through to 4 outputs, in standalone, to use the unit as a simple Neve transformer line driver.

Cheers!
Check out these results from Oblique RTL utility tool. Not liking them at all.
Attached Thumbnails
Steinberg announces UR-RT2 and UR-RT4 interfaces-steinberg-ur-rt2-page0001.jpg  
Old 5th June 2018
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxmaestro View Post
Check out these results from Oblique RTL utility tool. Not liking them at all.
Ouch.

Thank you for taking the time to do that. Much appreciated.

I will stick with my MOTU interface and Kush Omega VSTs for now.
Old 6th June 2018
  #86
Gear Maniac
I have a RME Fireface UFX and a Steinberg UR824.

The Steinberg is simply unuseable (for me) for tracking with low latencies.
The RME has a roundtrip in Cubase of 7,868 (at 128 samples, 44,1), the Steinberg has 15,238 (!)
And although the latency is already that much higher at 128 I have to go up to 256 with the Steinberg to get a cracklefree playback. With the RME on the other hand I could even go down to 64 if needed....
Old 7th June 2018
  #87
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kasami08's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxmaestro View Post
You do love Focusrite
Its a company started by Rupert Neve himself which is relevant. It would of made more sense if Rupert Neve collaborated with Focusrite on a new modern product like this since he hasn't designed anything for Focusrite since he left the company. Back in 1985, Mr. Neve started Focusrite, originally as an outboard gear manufacturer. He designed the original Focusrite ISA 110 which lead to the Focusrite Forte mixing console. His designs and legacy still lives on with in the company with the Studio consoles that are still in use, 1995 Red range and ISA range that are based off of his designs. It would be different if the URT mic pre amp was designed by Rupert Neve. Its still a Yamaha Mic Pre amp.
Old 8th June 2018
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasami08 View Post
Its a company started by Rupert Neve himself which is relevant. It would of made more sense if Rupert Neve collaborated with Focusrite on a new modern product like this since he hasn't designed anything for Focusrite since he left the company. Back in 1985, Mr. Neve started Focusrite, originally as an outboard gear manufacturer. He designed the original Focusrite ISA 110 which lead to the Focusrite Forte mixing console. His designs and legacy still lives on with in the company with the Studio consoles that are still in use, 1995 Red range and ISA range that are based off of his designs. It would be different if the URT mic pre amp was designed by Rupert Neve. Its still a Yamaha Mic Pre amp.
I know the history of Focusrite - actually had just about every interface from theirs from the Scarlett 18i6 (earlier version), and to their latest. Also had some ISA's, and have the Clarett 8prex now. I only say that, because you happen to mention it quite a lot, and how it started. I like them too. It just seems almost every time you reference Focusrite, you give the story of how it started and Neve. Quite a few posts. I just feel you don't have to give the whole tutorial on how Focusrite started, each time. If you go through the threads here, you'll see quite a few people have known for years.

Back to the Steinberg UR-RT2, I don't think they made it to sound like the ISA or 1073, or anything like that. As you said, yamaha preamps with a neve transformer. FWIW I don't the transformers are a gimmick - per se, it'll do something to the sound. Some may like it, some may not. I have it, and may get around to seeing how it sounds, but I was so put off by the high latency on it, I just put it to the side for the moment.
Old 8th June 2018
  #89
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kasami08's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxmaestro View Post
I know the history of Focusrite - actually had just about every interface from theirs from the Scarlett 18i6 (earlier version), and to their latest. Also had some ISA's, and have the Clarett 8prex now. I only say that, because you happen to mention it quite a lot, and how it started. I like them too. It just seems almost every time you reference Focusrite, you give the story of how it started and Neve. Quite a few posts. I just feel you don't have to give the whole tutorial on how Focusrite started, each time. If you go through the threads here, you'll see quite a few people have known for years.

Back to the Steinberg UR-RT2, I don't think they made it to sound like the ISA or 1073, or anything like that. As you said, yamaha preamps with a neve transformer. FWIW I don't the transformers are a gimmick - per se, it'll do something to the sound. Some may like it, some may not. I have it, and may get around to seeing how it sounds, but I was so put off by the high latency on it, I just put it to the side for the moment.

This seems petty. I only mentioned about the ISA a few times me replying to three different people. I was referring to two transformer mic pre amps related to Rupert Neve that includes the ISA. My first comment was about why I wish if Rupert gotten back with Focusrite on a new collaboration. Hint, the very first person that comment in this thread mentioned the Focusrite Clarett. No big deal.
Old 19th June 2018
  #90
If you use Cubase, you can use Direct Monitoring, which is effectively latency-free.

I'm a very happy MR816 user and am interested to see if there is going to be a UR RT8 or something that represents an evolution from MR816 to UR824 to ???

Chris
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