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Universal Audio Ships Arrow Desktop Audio Interface For Music Creators Audio Interfaces
Old 15th February 2018
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
I spoke to one of the guys working for RME. They use custom chips for their USB connection. The standard controller code on the USB connection that you buy from people making said USB connectors gives you a minimum I/O latency of about 12 ms. If you re-write the controller code specifically for audio, as well as being very good at coding the operating system drivers themselves, you can get very low latency via USB 2, which is what RME use on their low-track-count models.

I must say, I use Audient stuff to record metal guitars using native plugins and I have guys sweep-picking left right and centre without serious issues. Unless you're a drummer, or either a classical or very technical jazz musician, you should be able to work with a few ms of latency. A singer or pop music producer complaining about 15 ms of latency will get a raised eyebrow from me.

Btw sometimes latency can cause phase issues for singers when combined with the direct sound – the polarity switch is usually enough to fix that.
I got it.

So the real main difference, from what I've understood, is more about dsp than connector.

If I plug my guitar in DI and use vst for distortion, if I don't have an interface with dsp processing that plugin I must wait for the signal passing from DAW and coming back. And this could produce a large latency which may make me play out of sync.
You can play and sing with direct monitor listening clean signal in many cases but not when you are playing guitar with distortion.
beside there are many effects which you need to monitor while you are playing - i'm thinking for instance about U2 guitars all based on delay which itself produces the notes of their riffs. You can't record guitar like that and not being able to monitor the processed signal.

If my interface has no dsp or its dsp only works for mixing, I have to rely on drivers and pc power for monitoring my guitar processed signal.

I have some doubts thou: Arrow would allow me to hear me back with very low latency applying some effects or guitar amp simulator, record the clean signal, and then process it later with different daw plugins... right?

An interface like audient id22 wouldn't allow me to have such a low delay when I play - still can't figure out how much it's audible - but has much more inputs, it would allows me to use send-return effects - I hope in this case direct monitor would send me back the signal AFTER passing send-return loop - and I could hope for some improvement of their windows drivers.

If what i wrote above is correct, I'm very undecided. If audient's latency may result negligible for my ears when applying guitar vst, id 22 would be definitely preferable for my needs and much more versatile.

+Arrow seems very good, I don't know how much its preamps are better than Audient's but I know they are very good, andanyway I would be sure I could play without going out of sync.
- I couldn't use it with my notebook as it has no tb3 interface
- I should pay a lot for UAD plugins in case I needed one in particular to apply in real time if those provided are not useful for me.
- I'd have no better latency in case I didn't exploit onboard dsp but pass through daw
-It's very limited in input /output numbers
Old 25th February 2018
  #152
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
I genuinely don't understand that – unless the latency is already high to begin with, in which case an extra ten ms might make a small difference. 10 ms is like a 15 ft distance to the source.
If latency is noticeable the. It’s noticable. Doesn’t matter what the figures tell you, and this is where a lot of people break down because they trust inbuilt tools to tell them what their latency is rather than just listening or paying attention to how it feels (if they’re not particularly time sensitive). Round trip latency is often much higher than you think, it’s hard to measure too because when you record most modern software and even hardware has compensation built in which delays things even further in order to line up channels and reduce phase issues. Basically you can’t trust anything but your ears.

What makes this worse is that unlike a situation in a stage where you have audio cues that a sound is coming from a distance when monitoring the sound comes at you at full volume and frequency as if it were right next to you but with the delay as if it were the other side of the (quite large) stage. For singers this is particularly a problem because you really hear you instrument immediately, it’s like the echo in a satellite call, it completely throws you to hear yourself louder and fractionally later. For singers I recommend disabling all effects or software monitoring and only using hardware monitoring which is far lower latency, or at the very least proportionally reducing their own volume in the cans to make it sound a smidge more natural so they’re not competing with themselves.
Old 27th February 2018
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
I genuinely don't understand that – unless the latency is already high to begin with, in which case an extra ten ms might make a small difference. 10 ms is like a 15 ft distance to the source.
If the talent complains, I just fix the problem. I'm not a singer or voice talent so I can't judge how bothersome the delay is or not but they always notice it if I don't turn off native plugins on a HDX rig before we start recording... (Playback engine is usually set to 64 or 128 samples. The plugin in question I usually forget to turn off is a Waves plugin which adds another 64 samples of PDC).

Alistair
Old 27th February 2018
  #154
007
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Will Arrow work with a 2015 MBP? (the last models before the touch-bar batch?)
I checked on the UA site but again, some bits are a bit hazy in regards to USB-C.
I know a 2011 MBP (with TB port mind you) will NOT WORK.
But, a 2015, does it have something that a 2011 doesn't which would make it compatible?
Old 28th February 2018
  #155
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Will Arrow work with a 2015 MBP? (the last models before the touch-bar batch?)
I checked on the UA site but again, some bits are a bit hazy in regards to USB-C.
I know a 2011 MBP (with TB port mind you) will NOT WORK.
But, a 2015, does it have something that a 2011 doesn't which would make it compatible?
I would love to hear from UA too regarding that matter. I have a MacBook Pro mid 2015 with TB2 and I'm probably going to change it for a newer model late this year. Since I'm in need for an audio interface, I was wondering if there was a chance to get Arrow work with my Mac before I buy a new one...

Apple sells an adapter for TB3 (USB-C) to TB2 and it says it works bidirectional.

"The Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter lets you connect Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt 2 devices — such as external hard drives and Thunderbolt docks — to any of the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports on your MacBook Pro.
As a bidirectional adapter, it can also connect new Thunderbolt 3 devices to a Mac with a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 port and macOS Sierra."

But I think the problem with 2015 MBPs is that they can't provide power through TB2 and Arrow can't be powered via power-supply.
Old 28th February 2018
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lox72 View Post
I would love to hear from UA too regarding that matter. I have a MacBook Pro mid 2015 with TB2 and I'm probably going to change it for a newer model late this year. Since I'm in need for an audio interface, I was wondering if there was a chance to get Arrow work with my Mac before I buy a new one...

Apple sells an adapter for TB3 (USB-C) to TB2 and it says it works bidirectional.

"The Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter lets you connect Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt 2 devices — such as external hard drives and Thunderbolt docks — to any of the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports on your MacBook Pro.
As a bidirectional adapter, it can also connect new Thunderbolt 3 devices to a Mac with a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 port and macOS Sierra."

But I think the problem with 2015 MBPs is that they can't provide power through TB2 and Arrow can't be powered via power-supply.
Isn't Thunderbolt 2 like 10W of power?
Old 28th February 2018
  #157
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
Isn't Thunderbolt 2 like 10W of power?
Not sure, that's why I'm in hope for some UA reply.
Old 28th February 2018
  #158
Old 1st March 2018
  #159
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Old 15th April 2018
  #160
Gear Maniac
 

I don't think anyone has been able to test the RTL. Still.....
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