Soundtheory announces Gullfoss plug-in at NAMM 2018 - Page 36 - Gearslutz
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Soundtheory announces Gullfoss plug-in at NAMM 2018
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1051
Gear Nut
 
Definitely needs a sidechain option.
On sparse passages where only the kick, some high hats and a pad are present, the pad (especially) pumps to the rhythm of the kick even at conservative 30% tame. I could positively exploit this unwanted behavior if a sidechain option would be available.
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1052
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit View Post
Definitely needs a sidechain option.
On sparse passages where only the kick, some high hats and a pad are present, the pad (especially) pumps to the rhythm of the kick even at conservative 30% tame. I could positively exploit this unwanted behavior if a sidechain option would be available.
Yep. This is why I passed on Gullfoss until this feature is added. I really liked what it was doing to the full mix at first but they need the sidechain to make it workable past that point.
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1053
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit View Post
Definitely needs a sidechain option.
On sparse passages where only the kick, some high hats and a pad are present, the pad (especially) pumps to the rhythm of the kick even at conservative 30% tame. I could positively exploit this unwanted behavior if a sidechain option would be available.
Umm.. can't you just automate the settings?
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1054
Gear Nut
 
Not an option for me. Too many reasons to list from the gym
Old 18th August 2020
  #1055
Gear Maniac
 
We're working on a solution for the providing a side chain input, or something equivalent. So far we're not happy with what we can offer, but it will remain high on our priority list until this is solved to our satisfaction.

As mentioned by other and discussed in this thread before, timing is crucial for Gullfoss to work properly, especially on transients. The vast majority of DAWs do not properly synchronize sidechain signals and also don't provide any method to determine the delay of the side channel. So we may have to construct our own sidechaining mechanism that works outside of the DAW's signal routing.

Andreas
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1056
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit View Post
On sparse passages where only the kick, some high hats and a pad are present, the pad (especially) pumps to the rhythm of the kick even at conservative 30% tame.
If Gullfoss starts "pumping" it's because the loudness compensation is working too hard. In other words, your kick was so loud that taming it down required the pad (and other elements of your mix) to be boosted to make up for the perceived loudness loss.

You can either make your kick quieter before applying Gullfoss or use the Bias parameter to adjust the response to the kick. A positive value for Bias will likely reduce the bouncing effect and a negative value will emphasize it. You can also use the Boost parameter to change the relative loudness perception in the low end, which will affect the pumping as well.

So even if the bouncing effect is unwanted as you say, it's there by design and necessary to make Gullfoss work the way it does. Using different parameters and understanding what is going on usually helps to get to a place that's more to your liking.

Andreas
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1057
Lives for gear
 
OliverV's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atell View Post
We're working on a solution for the providing a side chain input, or something equivalent.
This is great to hear.

Thanks Andreas, and good luck!
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1058
Gear Nut
 
Regarding the kick issue: this is a reality in dance music. There is a certain RMS level to adhere to, in order to make the song "club sound system - compatible", so reducing the level is not an option.

The use is as follows: I set up Gullfoss to react optimally during the loudest part of the song. The issues appear at times during the sparse segments. If I automate the settings to "relax" it's processing, I get too much difference on the sounds that are playing in both crowded and sparse segments - for example high hats change their character during various song segments.

But yes, I agree, Gullfoss reacts as intended, to the existing material, nothing more, nothing less.

For now I have more consistent results on submix busses (one instance on instruments buss, one instance on drum buss (kick is not included in this buss), one instance on vocals).

I was thinking that feeding the entire (busy mix) all the time via sidechain, will get a more uniform reaction on all segments of the song. However, if you already tested this internally and found that it does not produce usable results, then I personally don't see any other use for a sidechain option (except for sound design, maybe).


Quote:
Originally Posted by atell View Post
If Gullfoss starts "pumping" it's because the loudness compensation is working too hard. In other words, your kick was so loud that taming it down required the pad (and other elements of your mix) to be boosted to make up for the perceived loudness loss.

You can either make your kick quieter before applying Gullfoss or use the Bias parameter to adjust the response to the kick. A positive value for Bias will likely reduce the bouncing effect and a negative value will emphasize it. You can also use the Boost parameter to change the relative loudness perception in the low end, which will affect the pumping as well.

So even if the bouncing effect is unwanted as you say, it's there by design and necessary to make Gullfoss work the way it does. Using different parameters and understanding what is going on usually helps to get to a place that's more to your liking.

Andreas
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1059
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit View Post
Definitely needs a sidechain option.
On sparse passages where only the kick, some high hats and a pad are present, the pad (especially) pumps to the rhythm of the kick even at conservative 30% tame. I could positively exploit this unwanted behavior if a sidechain option would be available.
I don't think that 30% isn't really 'conservative' for Gullfoss. 5-15% is as much as I ever used. 15% is the more 'extreme' end.
Old 20th August 2020
  #1060
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Using Gullfoss in Mastering, I'm often at settings of 1-3 for Recover, Tame.
Old 20th August 2020
  #1061
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I rarely go above 10% on the master.
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1062
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Same, rarely above 10%.

I good one is to simply use 2% and 1% as a pair on either Recover or Tame. See which one suits best.
Old 20th August 2020
  #1063
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I can easily go between 10 and 50 on the master.. but it is COMPLETELY depending on the BIAS control and how wide or narrow the range I want to cover is (and of course program material too). Bias also seems to work a bit opposite depending on which main control you use (tame or recover).

This is what I wrote on KvR (might not actually be how Gullfoss works but it's how I HEAR it working. So take it as such information. ):

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic
I really love this thing too. Have been exploring the extremes a lot, using two instances of Gullfoss instead of doing it all in one instance.

For instance, the 'Tame' control does it's thing very differently depending on the bias control. If you set bias to 100% and then use tame, you get very tight compression like frequency riding/fixing. However if you set it to -100% you get a really open, kind of slow and pillowy, almost expanded yet controlled sound.

Thus if you are in a hurry and need to absolutely nail a bass guitar or synth in place, without resorting to a lot of manual EQ + compression, you simply insert gullfoss on the bass, set bias to 100% and 'tame' to something like 50 or more. Then dial in the crossovers to the problem area. Boom.. instant awesomely controlled bass at any note range.

The 'recover' control works exactly opposite. If you set bias to -100% you get highly aggressive, almost upwards expansion like recovery of various frequencies.. thus sort of increasing the dynamic range perception on the material. Whereas at 100% you get the opposite.. pillowy and slow upwards expansion of various low level frequencies.

Gullfoss also tends to want to boost really high frequency stuff, like noise.. in the upper 15kHz to 22kHz range. I usually mitigate this with either the crossover thing or by setting brightness to around -30 or -40. In general I find Gullfoss to go for a quite bright sound, which is not always desirable.
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1064
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Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
I can easily go between 10 and 50 on the master.. but it is COMPLETELY depending on the BIAS control and how wide or narrow the range I want to cover is (and of course program material too). Bias also seems to work a bit opposite depending on which main control you use (tame or recover).

This is what I wrote on KvR (might not actually be how Gullfoss works but it's how I HEAR it working. So take it as such information. ):

I’ve never really dig into the bias control anyone got any insights?
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1065
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
I’ve never really dig into the bias control anyone got any insights?
Is the mix too resonant? Bias towards tame. Is the mix too lifeless? Bias towards recover.

Hope that helps.
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1066
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
I’ve never really dig into the bias control anyone got any insights?
Just try it. Set Tame or Recover (learn one control at a time) to something silly like 100%.. then listen to the difference with Bias set to 100 or -100.

Note that I think Tame and Recover are probably interactive, so learning exactly what they do individually may not give the same results as when they are combined.

.. maybe somebody from Soundtheory can give us some more details on this subject?
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1067
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Boom View Post
Is the mix too resonant? Bias towards tame. Is the mix too lifeless? Bias towards recover.

Hope that helps.

BIAS is a 3rd, sort of independent control. If the mix is too resonant, but ONLY during peaks. Then hit it hard with 'Tame' and set bias to 100%. This will sort of "chop off" the peaks when they are highest.

.. now if you want a more gradual or deeper sort of taming of peaks and don't want the mix to sound compressed, then you set Bias towards negative values (only true for Tame! Recover is opposite).


My point is: Tame and Recover have their own individual reactions with the bias control. Bias directly controls how these two processes do their action. One extreme of the Bias control sounds "hard and compressed", for instance 'Tame' at +100% (or "hard and expanded" when using Recover at -100%) while the other extreme is "soft, moving and fluffy" (Tame at -100% and Recover at +100%).

Last edited by bmanic; 20th August 2020 at 07:40 PM..
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1068
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
Using Gullfoss in Mastering, I'm often at settings of 1-3 for Recover, Tame.
Wow that's super subtle.
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1069
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Just try it. Set Tame or Recover (learn one control at a time) to something silly like 100%.. then listen to the difference with Bias set to 100 or -100.

Note that I think Tame and Recover are probably interactive, so learning exactly what they do individually may not give the same results as when they are combined.

.. maybe somebody from Soundtheory can give us some more details on this subject?
ohof course, good idea - silly me - thanks for that idea, and the analysis as well - very helpful!

Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #1070
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stravinsky View Post
Wow that's super subtle.
Subtle as the settings suggest, Gullfoss usually follows my last EQ in the Mastering chain. Those small settings can refine the details/separation ever so slightly .... and nice .... Or I don't need to use it. Depends.

Additionally, I've been experimenting using Gullfoss for D-ess'ing the Master. [or other hi-freq issues]

I've several tools for that purpose, but sometimes Gullfoss can do the job better.
Old 21st August 2020 | Show parent
  #1071
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
Subtle as the settings suggest, Gullfoss usually follows my last EQ in the Mastering chain. Those small settings can refine the details/separation ever so slightly .... and nice .... Or I don't need to use it. Depends.

Additionally, I've been experimenting using Gullfoss for D-ess'ing the Master. [or other hi-freq issues]

I've several tools for that purpose, but sometimes Gullfoss can do the job better.
So you are using Gullfoss after compression. Am I right?
Old 21st August 2020 | Show parent
  #1072
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stravinsky View Post
So you are using Gullfoss after compression. Am I right?
Generally BEFORE compression.

However, I also have Masterings for Live Performances, and some of them require special treatment. If that means 2 instances of Gullfoss, one before, one after compression, then that is what may be done.

Other times, Gullfoss might go after compressors, but then the very subtle settings are used [in fact, sometimes the 'integer' values are too big a jump ... would like decimal values .... but likely those details show in the Control Room ... so I'm being very picky.

All in all, I don't use [or want] Gullfoss for any heavy EQ duties. I've a selection of high end EQ's for that purpose ... and generally before compression.

At the same time, EQ'ing AFTER compression is yet another technique used ... everything is determined by the Source, and the desired goal. Staying mindful for the rational behind the decisions is fundamental, as always.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #1073
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChick View Post
I’d like to zoom in the graphics to see +-6db or even +-3db. The +-24db has no sense.
+1

I’m quite keen on using the plugin for working out how to improve my mix balance (rather than just processing with it), so better metering would be really useful for this.

Would also be nice to have bigger/clearer meters showing enhance activity etc.
Old 4th December 2020 | Show parent
  #1074
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
+1

I’m quite keen on using the plugin for working out how to improve my mix balance (rather than just processing with it), so better metering would be really useful for this.

Would also be nice to have bigger/clearer meters showing enhance activity etc.
If you haven't already I would get a copy of Voxengo SPAN (the free one is fine) and watch this video to get some very useful settings and mix balance tips... https://youtu.be/Zflb0-UEdpc

It's a great way to confirm if your mix is balanced and learn to trust your ears, monitors and room. I use Gulfoss after I get the mix balanced
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