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Sony C-100 Hi-Res Mic
Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #871
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
I know that its better. I even got not so bad results with my rode cause when you have an idea and a good song in the making it doesn't matter at all. The song will be good at the end! I get that and agree with this.
Its just that the u87ai sounds like a peace of **** after I've recorded with the c100 :D My first impression with the u87ai was, uhhh how sterile and thin, that's not the clear soudn I was used to.
I think I know well enough about my techniques cause I needed to stand tilted with the rode, tlm103 and c100 to void sibilance and it seems I don't have to do it.
But when I do it it even sounded more filtered. While c100 sounded good in both cases.
I'll play a little bit with my eq on my recordings again (already did) but I can't see it'll please me.
I've never heard a U87 sound like a piece of **** lol, but to each his own. I have a record I have to finish going on my album. I tested that record with both 87 and Sonyc100 a couple years ago. Ill post it once its released in this thread.

Get to recording then and find out how you can maximize the c100.

The "filtered" sound you're talking about is not what it seems. It's the highs on the c100 that is attracting you because it's boosted. Not sure if I remember but the c100 has another capsule just for highs or something like that
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #872
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by JblKid95 View Post
I've never heard a U87 sound like a piece of **** lol, but to each his own. I have a record I have to finish going on my album. I tested that record with both 87 and Sonyc100 a couple years ago. Ill post it once its released in this thread.

Get to recording then and find out how you can maximize the c100.

The "filtered" sound you're talking about is not what it seems. It's the highs on the c100 that is attracting you because it's boosted. Not sure if I remember but the c100 has another capsule just for highs or something like that
I was a little bit harsh in tone about the u87ai (No pun intended, )
I'll do some tests with the windscreen over the high end capsule at the top if the c100 and see what results I can get. I had this idea some days ago. Maybe its a good way.
I'll order the c100 probably next month.

Like I said in the other thread I added highs to the u87ai and couldn't get it as good sounding like the Sony. Also the other way around I removed high end from the sony and it still sounded better than the u87ai.
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #873
Gear Nut
 

Yes the gefell has better resolution in the highs and midrange and tighter bass. I still prefer the sony on my voice solo but the gefell points with the better resolution. The files for the mix where recorded with less drive from the preamp to capture more the essence.
I already used a pultec pulgin on both to cut 100 and boost top. Also api eq plugin. But maybe I pushed to hard into the mixbus what seems like distortion.
Yes I used a deesser. Of course deeser sometime even pushing the signal forward in a mix. The gefell takes deesser very good. On the sony not so good and the highend stays a little fizzy even with deesser. (Fabfilter deesser)
I really don't know which mix I like more. Maybe a for the more modern style and mix b for a little bit more natural, vintage (?) Style. A lot of modern rap like dababy are sounding a little bit cluttered to me. In my mind the sony is more of a one trick pony and the gefell is more of a workhorse. So I should keep the gefell I guess and think about if I need the sony.
Recorded some people on the gefell and it was at least ok. Don't know about the sony in that regard.

I did not add any stereo effects on the vocals or saturation beside of tape. To show more of the essence of the two mics. No fancy stuff just little reverb and delay.
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #874
Gear Nut
 

Redone the Mixes on Speakers with minimal Processing: Pultec, Rvox,Pro-l2, Deesser, soothe (Highend)
noch Corrective EQ. Only Reverb, PC and Delay

The Sony sounds bigger, the Gefell clearer. Which you like more?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qr6xylqar...ckdg2tLIa?dl=0
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #875
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Redone the Mixes on Speakers with minimal Processing: Pultec, Rvox,Pro-l2, Deesser, soothe (Highend)
noch Corrective EQ. Only Reverb, PC and Delay

The Sony sounds bigger, the Gefell clearer. Which you like more?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qr6xylqar...ckdg2tLIa?dl=0
its the same order right? Cause by first listen I would say so. I like both here. Maybe mix1 is a tiny bit better and I bet its the sony.
I think both sound good on you. I would go with the sony its cheaper, newer and fits your voice.

Ofc I can't speak for your Gefell but my Sony takes dessing and eq very well. While my u87ai doesn't need any dessing in most of the cases. Somebody on here said it takes dessing not so good.
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #876
Gear Nut
 

Yes same order. Messed it up on headphones a little bit.I think I keep both for now.
I need modern mics. Have something nasal und cant stand to mid heavy mics on my voice.
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #877
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Yes same order. Messed it up on headphones a little bit.I think I keep both for now.
I need modern mics. Have something nasal und cant stand to mid heavy mics on my voice.
yeah that might be a good choice
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #878
Lives for gear
 
JblKid95's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
yeah that might be a good choice
they sound close here, I prefer mix 2 here because I can follow your vocals cleanly throughout the track with this one. If that's the Geffelle again, then its clearly a better mic. If you're trying to save money, you could just eq less highs on the Sony because your voice sounds better that way to me
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #879
Lives for gear
 

I like the C100 way better to be honest.
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Old 22nd September 2020
  #880
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b0se's Avatar
Mix 2 for me, your vocals sound glued in the mix and have more weight/authority. They feel a bit weaker/detached in mix A.

Depends what you want, of course.
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Old 22nd September 2020
  #881
Gear Nut
 

Mix 1 is the sony, mix 2 is the gefell. I think with a busy mix the gefell is the winner. With an open mix I think the sony could work great too. I will keep both for now.

Saw sonys for 800€ on reverb. If that is what you get for the sony I won't sell it. Maybe try a different preamp for the sony in the future.
Thanks everybody for your opinion.
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Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #882
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Mix 1 is the sony, mix 2 is the gefell. I think with a busy mix the gefell is the winner. With an open mix I think the sony could work great too. I will keep both for now.

Saw sonys for 800€ on reverb. If that is what you get for the sony I won't sell it. Maybe try a different preamp for the sony in the future.
Thanks everybody for your opinion.
wow that's cheap. I'm a little bit suspicious when its about used mics though.

on the other hand I also saw the u87ai for 1,4k on ebay. Which is almost half the mic as well.
But yeah if I like a mic then I'll like it for a while.

Edit: oh okey that one that goes for 800,- is cheaper because of the shock mount is a little bit broken and I've heard somewhere a new one costs you between 200-300 bucks which is crazy cause I think the shock mount of the c100 feels plastic cheap made and not as stable as the Neumann u87ai one. So the price is ok I guess.

so yeah that was the 3rd weakness of the mic but apart from that and how it sounds its just complain about first world problems.
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Old 23rd September 2020 | Show parent
  #883
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
wow that's cheap. I'm a little bit suspicious when its about used mics though.

on the other hand I also saw the u87ai for 1,4k on ebay. Which is almost half the mic as well.
But yeah if I like a mic then I'll like it for a while.

Edit: oh okey that one that goes for 800,- is cheaper because of the shock mount is a little bit broken and I've heard somewhere a new one costs you between 200-300 bucks which is crazy cause I think the shock mount of the c100 feels plastic cheap made and not as stable as the Neumann u87ai one. So the price is ok I guess.

so yeah that was the 3rd weakness of the mic but apart from that and how it sounds its just complain about first world problems.
Guess what, the c800g shockmount isn't that wonderful either.
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Old 23rd September 2020 | Show parent
  #884
Gear Nut
 

Does somebody here have problems with lowcuts on mics or preamps? Recorded same files today without lowcuts and cut in daw with plugin instead. It sounds so much better its not even close. The sony also sound so much smoother recording it without a filter.

Also recorded both mics with my telefunken v672a which iam about to sell. The telefunken sounds nice solo but better with the gefell. In the Mix the 1073 kicks the ass of the telefunken.
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Old 23rd September 2020 | Show parent
  #885
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Does somebody here have problems with lowcuts on mics or preamps? Recorded same files today without lowcuts and cut in daw with plugin instead. It sounds so much better its not even close. The sony also sound so much smoother recording it without a filter.

Also recorded both mics with my telefunken v672a which iam about to sell. The telefunken sounds nice solo but better with the gefell. In the Mix the 1073 kicks the ass of the telefunken.
that's why I never record with a filter on on my mic or preamp/plugin. I agree it sounds better and you can decide the order of your chain.
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Old 24th September 2020 | Show parent
  #886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Does somebody here have problems with lowcuts on mics or preamps? Recorded same files today without lowcuts and cut in daw with plugin instead. It sounds so much better its not even close. The sony also sound so much smoother recording it without a filter.

Also recorded both mics with my telefunken v672a which iam about to sell. The telefunken sounds nice solo but better with the gefell. In the Mix the 1073 kicks the ass of the telefunken.
I never liked hardware HPFs in the gear I used... Only the one in the Avalon M5 was ok, but it is 6dB/oct and I found myself adding low end back again in the DAW, so what's the point then.
Now I use the digital EQ in my ADI-2 Pro FS for filters. It's very, very good as in non coloring.
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Old 24th September 2020 | Show parent
  #887
Gear Nut
 

Thanks. I blind mixed the non filtered files today und it was such a pleasure with the gefell. Without a lowcut I had the muddy problems with the sony again. I couldn't get close to my results with the gefell. While mixing i hoped the better sounding mic was the sony but nope... gefell takes eq etc so much better. And it was so much easier, faster to work with.
But to keep in mind the gefell costs almost double the price of the sony in germany. So iam happy with both but with my own project iam using the gefell. When it comes to mixing the better resolution just wins for me.
I think this also devides the c800 from the c100. Better resolution especially in the lowmids and tighter lowend.
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Old 25th September 2020
  #888
Gear Maniac
I returned my u87ai today!
Before I get the c100 again. I think about testing the Manyley Reference C now.
I relistened to some samples a couple of pages back and liked it together with the c100.
Also some rappers that I like use it.
Some ppl say its close to the c800g but I think both c100 and cm800t are closer.
I wish I could test the cm800t as well but I got not really a chance to return it.
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Old 25th September 2020 | Show parent
  #889
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
I returned my u87ai today!
Before I get the c100 again. I think about testing the Manyley Reference C now.
I relistened to some samples a couple of pages back and liked it together with the c100.
Also some rappers that I like use it.
Some ppl say its close to the c800g but I think both c100 and cm800t are closer.
I wish I could test the cm800t as well but I got not really a chance to return it.

I don’t think you are ever going to be 100% satisfied with any mic. Even if you had an 800 into a neve into a cl1b. I like the ref c. It’s a little harsh for me on some people so I use a u87 in place. If you think the u87 was harsh in a bad way, you will think the ref c is worse. I never used a 100 but I think it’s a little more tame.
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Old 25th September 2020 | Show parent
  #890
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
I don’t think you are ever going to be 100% satisfied with any mic. Even if you had an 800 into a neve into a cl1b. I like the ref c. It’s a little harsh for me on some people so I use a u87 in place. If you think the u87 was harsh in a bad way, you will think the ref c is worse. I never used a 100 but I think it’s a little more tame.
I agree with everything you say here. I think about maybe having 2-3 mics in my locker for different needs now. I also think the Ref c will sound like you say from sound examples though I'm still curious about it. But I liked the c800g on every comparement that I've ever heard.(On here, audio test kitchen, youtube etc.)
There was a vocal comparement on this thread by @ Paul G with the c800g, c100 and Chandler and I listened to that twice without knowing what was what cause I didn't memorized the results when I was listen for the second time and the c800g won everytime followed by the c100. So yeah it will be probably c100.
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Old 25th September 2020 | Show parent
  #891
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
I don’t think you are ever going to be 100% satisfied with any mic.
That.
I recently got the MK67 kit to transform my U87Ai to an U67.
I know it's not 100% due to the transformer, but regardless it is doing what want from my "character mic" and sounds awesome.
Still I would not say it's perfect and it's endless bliss from here on. But I guess that's the Point, where much uncertainty comes from: That a certain mic exists that could be able to do that for everyone at every time.
Peace is with the guys and gals that just gladly use their AT4050s and SM57s and make it work on a daily basis.
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Old 26th September 2020
  #892
Gear Maniac
Maybe I should try the Townsend Labs Sphere L22 it does have several mics and I'm into UAD anyway.
But what keeps me from doin it is the fact that this has a chinese capsule, is a stereo mic, bound on a software and less worth for reselling.
Does anybody have expierences with the L22?
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Old 26th September 2020 | Show parent
  #893
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
Maybe I should try the Townsend Labs Sphere L22 it does have several mics and I'm into UAD anyway.
But what keeps me from doin it is the fact that this has a chinese capsule, is a stereo mic, bound on a software and less worth for reselling.
Does anybody have expierences with the L22?
The mic is really good, great actually. The only gripe I had about it, and the mai reason why I sold it was mainly a workflow issue. Other than that, I loved it, the sound and everything was top notch, I'd reccomend it if you need variety in your mic locker and don't mind being in the UAD environment for tracking, but if you want to start using hardware pre, comps, etc. it could get really pricey since everything is stereo.
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Old 26th September 2020 | Show parent
  #894
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealKey View Post
The mic is really good, great actually. The only gripe I had about it, and the mai reason why I sold it was mainly a workflow issue. Other than that, I loved it, the sound and everything was top notch, I'd reccomend it if you need variety in your mic locker and don't mind being in the UAD environment for tracking, but if you want to start using hardware pre, comps, etc. it could get really pricey since everything is stereo.
yeah, that's the problem, its stereo and I don't know if I will get some hardware (tube preamp) in the future. I'm def. open for that. I think a c100 which is cheaper gets me closer to the c800g than the L22. Especially when I save up for a tube preamp.
Well, but maybe I'll test the L22. Its like I said the stereo workflow plus the chinese capsule and bound on software that keeps me from gettin it.
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Old 2nd October 2020
  #895
Lives for gear
 

Im posting back here because I did a shootout with the mics I own and wanted to see if the U87 was really muffled. I can actually understand what you are talking about vs a mic like the sony. I dont have the sony but I have a ref c as my "sony" sounding mic and the difference between the u87 and the ref c is night and day. Now in a mix, you can use either or depending on what you want to do. But a raw recording, you will hear dramatic differences.

Where a U87 shines is the ability to accept eq. I use a vintech x73 and the u87 is dull or cloudy or muffled (remember, vs the ref c) but once I put a touch of 12k and maybe scoop a little 3.2k the U87 really stands out as a mic that works in a mix really well. Of course you can do this post but I was just trying stuff going in. I rarely if ever eq the Ref c going in. I do eq it in a mix but it doesnt take eq that well at least vs a u87.

What the U87 offers that the ref c or sony 100 doesnt is a mid range bite that cuts through mixes. I think of my ref c as a scooped sounding modern mic. But in a mix I really struggle to get that biting mid range to pop through a mix. When I listen to rap mixes today, they all have that mid range bite that I like. There are a lot of rappers that have a more 8-12k bite and a smoother/hollow mid but I dont like that sound as much. Unless the song is a really pop, trap kind of sound.

Remember that I am old school. I was recording back in the early 2000s with a U87 - LA610 or Neve 1073 - La2a and Distressor. I liked that bite and push I got, especially when adding the La2a. Styles have changed but my ears always look for that. Today its more scooped and treble and little low end. This is where an 800g works because that mic gives you all of that, plus a smooth mid range that cuts through a mix but sounds compressed and smooth at the same time without much effort.

I sold my U87 for an AA U87. I did borrow one when I did this shootout and the AA is very close. Without eq its a little darker than the U87ai but with just a little eq, it reacts the same way. The stand out mic in my experiment is the KSM 32. That mic is like a U87 but has a different curve, isnt muffled, takes eq well, sits in a mix well. Sucks that its "cheap" but it could be $3k and people would be talking about it.

Also, the WA47 was darker like a U87 too. What I think has happened is that my ears got really used to a ref c and now anything sounds dark and muffled compared to it. Thats until its in the mix and makes sense. But if you A/B any mic vs a ref c, it will be dark I think. So thats why I say dark and muffled.

Mics used:

U87ai
AA U87
Ref C stock tube
Ref C Tele Nos
KSM 32
KSM 44
CV12
WA47
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Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #896
Gear Nut
 

I totally agree. But in a modern Rap production you should have the space and these mid scooped mics sound like they are part of it naturally with their boosted bass and highs.
If you have real guitars and midrange heavy instruments or samples these modern mics beginn to struggle. But if you have space in the mix you can really create that bigger than life vocal sound you seee in modern Rap without much effort.
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Old 4 weeks ago
  #897
Gear Maniac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82h9QVEMGGM

another great c100 vs c800g test. Its different but close.
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #898
Gear Maniac
Does anybody else think the Ref C sounds brighter than the c100??? I didn't notice this with my studio monitors but was comparing them on my headphones for the first time. I read everywhere the sony should be brighter though.
Maybe my ears trick me?
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #899
Gear Nut
 

Don't overthink it bro... you are posting so much these days. I think you are looking for a sound and you just can find that on your own. You dont post examples of your voice or the mics you are testing which would help... so now you are limited on your own ears.
Sometimes it is just about tonal balance... if you add bass to a source it will be darker. If you take it away or cut it the source is brighter. Also if you add harmonics to a source will become brighter usually and more cutting. Nowadays you can do
a lot of this while just becoming better at mixing.

So please add some of your files or think about it on your own. Throwing terms inside a world of listening/hearing/ music doesn't makes sense to me. Let us hear your voice in the c-100, u-87 and ref-c and we can help you. Otherwise theses are just words without context.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #900
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
Don't overthink it bro... you are posting so much these days. I think you are looking for a sound and you just can find that on your own. You dont post examples of your voice or the mics you are testing which would help... so now you are limited on your own ears.
Sometimes it is just about tonal balance... if you add bass to a source it will be darker. If you take it away or cut it the source is brighter. Also if you add harmonics to a source will become brighter usually and more cutting. Nowadays you can do
a lot of this while just becoming better at mixing.

So please add some of your files or think about it on your own. Throwing terms inside a world of listening/hearing/ music doesn't makes sense to me. Let us hear your voice in the c-100, u-87 and ref-c and we can help you. Otherwise theses are just words without context.
I wasn't posting much over the last month cause I was busy tracking new songs.
I took a break now for a couple of days from tracking and compared my recordings of the c100 and Ref C.
I exactly know what sound I want and I know how to get it.
Its more a money thing for me cause if you ask me I'd like to keep both the c100 and the Ref C.
I can say they both sound better than the u87ai.

For me its now either the C100 or the Ref C!
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