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Sonarworks releases Reference 4! Studio Headphones
Old 4th December 2017
  #241
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy3 View Post
i HAVE hd650 and I don't use it with the headphones, doesn't work for me. I use it with the speakers.
It's safer for your ear health to mix that way. Speakers right near the ear drum (which is what headphones are) is bad in the long term.
Old 5th December 2017
  #242
Mix with headphones needs a learning time for your ears.
With or without correction needs always follow some basic steps to avoid damage your ears and ruin your mixes:

1.-Listen to 1 or 2 recordings that you know very well and that are very well mixed, this will help your brain calibrate your ears.
2.-Mix at a relatively medium-low volume
3.-Each mix session of 30 minutes rest at least 15 minutes.

Don't forget : Listen with headphones deprive us of any kind of reflection and not having mixed part of the channel L in the R(interaction) and vice versa drastically increases the acoustic fatigue.
And ... Any type of equalization applied to headphones and / or speakers to achieve a flat response will also increase acoustic fatigue ALWAYS.

But it is not a problem if you follow the previous steps, especially the rest time.
Old 5th December 2017
  #243
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSchlomo View Post
I also have trouble using it with headphones. Point is that flat with speakers sounds totally different from flat on headphones. I mean so different that the frequency balance has almost nothing in common. At the moment I'm running it on 50/50 wet/dry on the cans, but it's still difficult getting used to it. On the speakers it works great.
Although I don’t mix on headphones I tried the calibration on my AKG K240. Well know mastered tracks sound mediocre and unbalanced. Speaker calibration is better but still needs work.
Coming from Ergo calibration I have to confess that I believed all EQ corrections software and hardware were more or less the same. I’ve completely change my mind after testing Sonarworks. It seems that algorithms and R&D can set a product to a completely different level..
Old 6th December 2017
  #244
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Anybody on Windows 10 Pro Tools 12 HD Native have any luck with calibration? My Pro Tools inputs don't show up in the calibration menu. With ARC it was ASIO compliant and they showed up fine. Nothing shows up with Sonarworks. I contacted them and they're response was, "HD Native systems are complex and extremely hard to set up for use with reference software. Maybe you can borrow a more simple external audio interface that you could use for the speaker measurement phase." There has to be a better way. I need to use my converters for the measurement phase. It's an Apogee Symphony HD rig. Any ideas?
Old 6th December 2017
  #245
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Well I got the bad news from Avid:

HD Native card and its AVID ASIO Driver can be used only for ASIO-Supported Software.

If the Sonarworks software supports ASIO, you should be able to select Avid ASIO driver on the setup page of the software.

But
https://www.sonarworks.com/reference...edition-manual
On the user guide P11 - , it says
“make sure you are using Direct Sound (Windows) / Core Audio (Mac) drivers .
So
Unfortunately, you cannot use your HD Native for the software on Windows

So there you have it folks. Sonarworks can't speaker calibrate on a Windows based Pro Tools HD native system. I've got a dead product in my hands. Bummer.
Old 6th December 2017
  #246
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mltamisin View Post
I've got a dead product in my hands. Bummer.
Yep...Pro Tools is dead.
Old 6th December 2017
  #247
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Pro Tools isn’t dead! I use Sonarworks 4 absolutely fine with my PT HD Native system. I’m on a Mac. It’s clearly an issue with Windows.
Old 10th December 2017
  #248
Gear Head
 
Udi Koomran's Avatar
Hello Friends
quick question regarding the Sonarworks XREF20 measurement mic
Since it has a omni directional polar pattern why is there a need to point the mic to the middle point between the speakers ?

Wouldn't it have been better if once the system identifies the mic is in the optimal spot it would give the user time to make sure the mic is pointed towards that middle point ?
There is no way to pause the process between different measurement points and I feels this causes it to be a bit hasty - opinions ?
Old 11th December 2017
  #249
Gear Head
 
Udi Koomran's Avatar
I am not sure if this has been discussed here before - wouldn't it be useful to have the ability to bypass only one range of the frequency spectrum correction
So one can hear the correction only on the low end etc.
Another point I am curious about - is it possible to have the software level match the correction with the original curve ?
Old 11th December 2017
  #250
Yes the posibility of correct only a range,some ranges or full range of spectrum is a great idea and i would like to be include in the next updates .
About your second question,i dont understand you....but after correction the ouput level reduced (sometimes ) to avoid digital clipping
Old 12th December 2017
  #251
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Udi Koomran's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanicos View Post
Yes the posibility of correct only a range,some ranges or full range of spectrum is a great idea and i would like to be include in the next updates .
About your second question,i dont understand you....but after correction the ouput level reduced (sometimes ) to avoid digital clipping
Since the correction boosts and cuts the result curve is louder (in my room)
So it would be useful to have the 2 curves volume matched
It would be nice to seamlessly a/b
Old 12th December 2017
  #252
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
Hello Friends
quick question regarding the Sonarworks XREF20 measurement mic
Since it has a omni directional polar pattern why is there a need to point the mic to the middle point between the speakers ?

Wouldn't it have been better if once the system identifies the mic is in the optimal spot it would give the user time to make sure the mic is pointed towards that middle point ?
There is no way to pause the process between different measurement points and I feels this causes it to be a bit hasty - opinions ?
Omni mics still have a direction. It is just a lot wider of a pickup pattern compared to cardiod. Also, proper phasing is important to the measurement process.

See page 12 in the user manual for an answer the question. I would set the delay to a high value. The stop button pauses the process.
Old 13th December 2017
  #253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
Since the correction boosts and cuts the result curve is louder (in my room)
So it would be useful to have the 2 curves volume matched
It would be nice to seamlessly a/b
When A/B-ing via the calibration button corrected and uncorrected are levelmatched quite perfectly. If you bypass the plug it of course gets louder by the amount the output is reduced to avoid clipping.
Old 18th December 2017
  #254
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How do i reset the autoclipping red bar to 0dbsf?
Old 18th December 2017
  #255
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Taurean's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by souljahh View Post
How do i reset the autoclipping red bar to 0dbsf?
Not quite clear on your question but when that clip prevention is on, the volume bar will auto adjust to allow for headroom. If you want to manually move the bar then turn off the clip prevention.
Old 18th December 2017
  #256
Is anyone else getting an insane amount of email from Sonarworks - they send me an email every day or two trying to sell me what I already own.

Spam is lame Sonarworks, back off on the emails
Old 19th December 2017
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurean View Post
Not quite clear on your question but when that clip prevention is on, the volume bar will auto adjust to allow for headroom. If you want to manually move the bar then turn off the clip prevention.
Tnx for your reply. i guess i understood of that function wrong. So it protects for the gains that raise when eq curves are applied, right?
Old 19th December 2017
  #258
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Taurean's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by souljahh View Post
Tnx for your reply. i guess i understood of that function wrong. So it protects for the gains that raise when eq curves are applied, right?
No worries. Yep, it is counteracting any gain increase from the eq.
Old 19th December 2017
  #259
I'm an ARC2 user and I'm gonna switch to Sonarworks. The system wide + options + headphone is just totally worth it !!!!

Sonarworks seems to be more focused on their reference software, maybe that explains why the product is more developped.

Room correction software is the future, keep on rockin' !!!
Old 19th December 2017
  #260
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
Wouldn't it have been better if once the system identifies the mic is in the optimal spot it would give the user time to make sure the mic is pointed towards that middle point ? There is no way to pause the process between different measurement points and I feels this causes it to be a bit hasty - opinions ?
I agree 100% on this.
Step 1: Software identifies the mic.
Step 2: User adjusting the mic to the middle of the monitor (as accurate as possible).
Step 3: User press any button on keyboard to complete measurement point. (This way, user can bend in front of his desktop and avoid coloration in the mid-range around 300 Hz from his body.

Result: More acurate measurement.

It's peculiat that sonarworks didn't think that in the first place.
Old 19th December 2017
  #261
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felon View Post
I'm an ARC2 user and I'm gonna switch to Sonarworks. The system wide + options + headphone is just totally worth it !!!!

Sonarworks seems to be more focused on their reference software, maybe that explains why the product is more developped.

Room correction software is the future, keep on rockin' !!!
To my ears headphone calibration is very inaccurate. After calibrating my AKG K240 sounded very poor and unexcited.

Sonarworks speaker calibration is way better, but you should try KRK Ergo if you can to realise its superiority in correction.
Old 19th December 2017
  #262
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JulenJVM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by petergel View Post
To my ears headphone calibration is very inaccurate. After calibrating my AKG K240 sounded very poor and unexcited.

Sonarworks speaker calibration is way better, but you should try KRK Ergo if you can to realise its superiority in correction.
Did you send in your particular pair of headphones to get them calibrated? Or did you just pick up the generic curve correction for your model? If you want accuracy and precision, you need custom calibration, otherwise you´re just applying a generic correction that doesn´t necessarily match your headphones.
Old 19th December 2017
  #263
Quote:
Originally Posted by petergel View Post
To my ears headphone calibration is very inaccurate. After calibrating my AKG K240 sounded very poor and unexcited.

Sonarworks speaker calibration is way better, but you should try KRK Ergo if you can to realise its superiority in correction.
Thanks. To be honest I'm not really interested about the headphone thing, the real stuff for me is the System wide app and the measurement management, wich seems sooooooo much better and effective. I want that. The system wide is the absolute one, that's just mandatory now !!!
Old 20th December 2017
  #264
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felon View Post
I'm an ARC2 user and I'm gonna switch to Sonarworks. The system wide + options + headphone is just totally worth it !!!!

Sonarworks seems to be more focused on their reference software, maybe that explains why the product is more developped.

Room correction software is the future, keep on rockin' !!!
IK Multimedia is a software company that has a room calibration product.

Sonarworks is a room calibration company that makes software.

Your analysis is spot on. IK went in the right direction with their move to a MEMs microphone but Sonarworks' Systemwide just puts it above IK's offering.

People have been asking for a Systemwide type portion of ARC for YEARS and IK never delivered. Sonarworks did.
Old 20th December 2017
  #265
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
IK Multimedia is a software company that has a room calibration product.

Sonarworks is a room calibration company that makes software.

Your analysis is spot on. IK went in the right direction with their move to a MEMs microphone but Sonarworks' Systemwide just puts it above IK's offering.

People have been asking for a Systemwide type portion of ARC for YEARS and IK never delivered. Sonarworks did.
Haha, exactly !

Yes, this systemwide !!!!! And the measurement, I feel like I will be way more confident with the Reference one. That's it, and for me it's already enough.

I say bravo to IK for their great stuff, but I want to go deeper with this kind of product.
Old 21st December 2017
  #266
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I've been using Sonarworks for quite a few years not. Can't go without it. It's not perfect but it helps. Can't wait to see if this tech can go even further. The small room is becoming more usable. Now if someone can make something like the PSI AVAAs for 1/4 the price then that and Sonarworks will be a life changer.

Not quite a fan of systemwide yet though. I prefer to use Audio Hijack. Although apparently Systemwide is getting an overhaul soon. I'll jump back on board then.
Old 21st December 2017
  #267
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JulenJVM's Avatar
 

I just wish Systemwide were ASIO compatible, so the EQ correction would happen outside the DAW, and we wouldn't have to load the plugin. I think this would free up resources for plugin processing and make of Systemwide a real system-wide solution
Old 22nd December 2017
  #268
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
I just wish Systemwide were ASIO compatible, so the EQ correction would happen outside the DAW, and we wouldn't have to load the plugin. I think this would free up resources for plugin processing and make of Systemwide a real system-wide solution
That incompatibility may be a limitation of operating system implementation. ASIO can't be doubled up from my understanding. When I have tried to do this with other software (run two ASIO drivers at the same time) my computer or DAW crashes.

Reference uses a whopping 1% CPU on a 96 kHz project and a staggering 0.4% in 44.1 kHz projects (Windows 7 64-bit REAPER version 5.70). For me, CPU performance isn't an issue with a four years old (going on five) processor.
Old 22nd December 2017
  #269
So for the System wide, how it works guys ?

Can I just load it on the background and mix and record in my DAW without inserting the plugin ?
Except in Cubase because of Asio ??

Or do I have to do it on both, but the correction is not doubled ? (deactivate one at the time)
Note: I have a Universal Audio Apollo interface.

Thanks !
Old 22nd December 2017
  #270
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felon View Post
So for the System wide, how it works guys ?

Can I just load it on the background and mix and record in my DAW without inserting the plugin ?
Except in Cubase because of Asio ??

Or do I have to do it on both, but the correction is not doubled ? (deactivate one at the time)
Note: I have a Universal Audio Apollo interface.

Thanks !
The purpose of System wide is to always have it on so that your ears can become accustomed to how your speakers sound with a calibrated response.

There's an option in Systemwide's taskbar preferences that disables it upon plugin insertion. Because it is not ASIO based you will need to use the plugin within your DAW. At least on a PC. I'm not sure if Mac is different when it comes to this topic.

Read the manual...it says a lot.
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