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Sonarworks releases Reference 4! Studio Headphones
Old 9th February 2018
  #361
Gear Maniac
 

Is there any news of the new algorithm for Ref 4 ? ?
Old 10th February 2018
  #362
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Is there any news of the new algorithm for Ref 4 ? ?
Not yet...
It is strange because there should already be a beta version released.
This was announced from sonarworks for this month
Old 13th February 2018
  #363
Lives for gear
 

Hello,

I don't well understand what is your upgrade system.

I already own Sonarworks 3 with the headphone calibration, and the speaker calibration with the mic, bought before september 2017.

What is the SystemWide ????

How much would it cost me to upgrade to version 4?

Thanks for your help

Regards

Sergio
Old 13th February 2018
  #364
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stella645's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Hello,

I don't well understand what is your upgrade system.

I already own Sonarworks 3 with the headphone calibration, and the speaker calibration with the mic, bought before september 2017.

What is the SystemWide ????

How much would it cost me to upgrade to version 4?

Thanks for your help

Regards

Sergio
If you wish to ask Sonarworks directly you would be better to mail them.

But your upgrade is 19 euro as shown here:
Upgrade policy of Reference 4 | Sonarworks

SystemWide is an app that processes all audio from your computer with the calibration so you hear the same process whether you use the DAW or are playing from a media player or browser audio etc.
Old 14th February 2018
  #365
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Deckdaddy's Avatar
Today I measured my speakers wth and without the correction curve at the sweet spot. I think the mids might be from when I need to put the measuring mic over the mixing desk, a place I never lean over to listen, it’s a shame we can’t set the limits for the measurment process ourselves. Also like we know you can’t just push more bass into a acoustic dip and flatten it out. Also the time response /waterfall plot doesn’t look too good with Ref4, it triggers my 27Hz fundamental mode more than flat (it boosts it a little but also worse in limited onstead of normal low end). Keep in mind this is only the sweet spot, Sonarworks take measurements over a wider area. But I think some of those areas are worthless to include if I never use them. One graph for left and one for right speakers. Edit: Yellow is before, red is with Sonarworks correction. I did not move the mic during the measurements.
Attached Thumbnails
Sonarworks releases Reference 4!-5d05e394-d04b-497e-8f8a-07cd08470dd8.jpg   Sonarworks releases Reference 4!-997a2dcc-2616-4115-b759-4f7d8a1b5b2a.jpg  
Old 14th February 2018
  #366
Lives for gear
picked up the mass drop hd6xx. Supposed to be the same as the hd650, so fingers crossed when I get them that they will work well with that profile. Any chance the Sonarworks team might be considering profiling these headphones. There were millions sold during the sale so I am sure this is one that will get used a lot.
Old 15th February 2018
  #367
Gear Addict
 
gilmanoel's Avatar
Hello guys! I was reading about the headphones recommended by Sonarworks staff, the Audio Technica M40X was said to be far from neutral and with unreliable treble, however I think it flat (as far as possible), and even more than the Beyerdynamic DT770 as well recommended by them. What do you think?

Cheers!
Old 15th February 2018
  #368
M2E
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I think the next move for Sonarworks is being able to move around the room and still be in the sweet spot. That’s the next level but, until then I love this program!!!
Old 19th February 2018
  #369
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stumax's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gilmanoel View Post
Hello guys! I was reading about the headphones recommended by Sonarworks staff, the Audio Technica M40X was said to be far from neutral and with unreliable treble, however I think it flat (as far as possible), and even more than the Beyerdynamic DT770 as well recommended by them. What do you think?

Cheers!
Sennheiser HD600 or HD650 are the ones that require the least adjustment to be 'flat' , I have a pair of DT770s , great for recording with but no-where in the ballpark of flat in comparison to the HD600/650s.

Thought you might like to know this
Old 19th February 2018
  #370
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumax View Post
Sennheiser HD600 or HD650 are the ones that require the least adjustment to be 'flat' , I have a pair of DT770s , great for recording with but no-where in the ballpark of flat in comparison to the HD600/650s.

Thought you might like to know this
That's true, but I still prefer my DT770 over almost any other headphone. Maybe it's because I'm listening to it since almost 20 years and know exactly how things have to sound like. At the moment I have Reference correction at 50% wet, any more and I feel uncomfortable.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Is there any news of the new algorithm for Ref 4 ? ?
Would like to know also !!
Old 24th March 2018
  #372
Simple question: can correction software like this successfully correct a low frequency null / dip in the frequency response? Do you have results to show?
Say you have dip of 15 dB at 80 or 120 Hz, possibly caused by cancellation. Can Sonarworks Reference fully fix this? I would find it peculiar if so.
Old 24th March 2018
  #373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
Simple question: can correction software like this successfully correct a low frequency null / dip in the frequency response? Do you have results to show?
Say you have dip of 15 dB at 80 or 120 Hz, possibly caused by cancellation. Can Sonarworks Reference fully fix this? I would find it peculiar if so.
That's not a dip, it's a crevasse! Your speakers would die from the boost - You have to get close first with room treatment and positioning, and then do the last little bit with correction software - it works very well in my setup, but I actually have 2 / 6db cuts in the bass end and a 5db boost in the mids - after Sonarworks processing, I have a very accurate monitoring reference.

Actually though, it has inspired me to further treat my room to try and deal with smoothing things out a bit more in the physical space - the more you do with the acoustics and the less with the software, the more natural and enjoyable the results.

Attached is my correction plot FYI:
Attached Thumbnails
Sonarworks releases Reference 4!-screen-shot-2018-03-24-1.44.17-pm.png  
Old 24th March 2018
  #374
Thanks Hardtoe, I agree with your comments, I was just wondering what SW Ref will do about a 120 Hz crevasse? How many dB's will it try to push it up?
Old 24th March 2018
  #375
And is that a +12 dB correction going on at 250 Hz? The plot has no dB unit.
Old 24th March 2018
  #376
You can select this in the software to allow:

No Boost

Reduced (6db Boost)

Normal (12db Boost)

So you have to manage it based on your monitoring headroom/power and you room situation - I'm sure the more it corrects, the more you have to be right in the sweet spot, which would get old pretty quick
Old 24th March 2018
  #377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
And is that a +12 dB correction going on at 250 Hz? The plot has no dB unit.
Sorry, cropped it too close - check it again in the previous post, I reloaded the image & I added on the DB - it's about +5db at it's peak in the mids - the yellow line on the graph shows the user set limit chosen for max correction.

In my room, it's also correcting for SBIR as my monitors are close to the wall
Old 24th March 2018
  #378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
You can select this in the software to allow:

No Boost

Reduced (6db Boost)

Normal (12db Boost)

So you have to manage it based on your monitoring headroom/power and you room situation - I'm sure the more it corrects, the more you have to be right in the sweet spot, which would get old pretty quick
Okay. I'm no expert, but I just can't stop thinking that if there is a cancellation caused by room barriers, boosting in software will not help.
Old 24th March 2018
  #379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
Okay. I'm no expert, but I just can't stop thinking that if there is a cancellation caused by room barriers, boosting in software will not help.
I dont think it is a good as having a really well designed room of course, but in practice as a corrective tool, it's very functional for mixing and mastering, making things obvious and easy to judge that are very obscured without the correction.

It really does work on a practical level, given that you have a good understanding of your monitoring setup and what it's telling you - for my particular setup, it also helps integrate my sub very well, as I am using a 2.1 setup. The soundstage is much tighter and the imaging much clearer with Sonarworks engaged, though there are some phase tradeoffs to be considered as the linear phase filters can add a noticeable amount of pre-ringing (though you get to choose from 3 filter types as well, trading phase coherency for freq accuracy). This setting needs to match your setup and preferences.
Old 24th March 2018
  #380
Still collecting info, this is good info, toe. I guess you can't ask the software to skip correcting above say 500 Hz?
Old 24th March 2018
  #381
You cant specify correction ranges yet, but users have been asking for this as a feature for future up dates, so hopefully it's coming (but that being said, I am very happy with the correction Sonarworks is applying full range).

In my old monitoring setup, I had the KRK Ergo (which utilized the very expensive Lyngdorf Audio tech) - it worked really well and only went up to 500hrtz - the other benefit was that everything was routed through the hardware, so no messing about with plugins or systemwide (which works quite good, but is more invasive to workflow). I eventually outgrew the D/A though, and there was no way around that with the Ergo - still a great tool for those who's needs it meets IMO
Old 24th March 2018
  #382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
Okay. I'm no expert, but I just can't stop thinking that if there is a cancellation caused by room barriers, boosting in software will not help.
The calibration is not really designed to fix room issues. It is designed to calibrate your speakers to your mixing position within a treated, or at least semi-treated room.
It is more of a tool for fine-tuning, as I see it. That isn't to say that it can not help offset issues with a room, it certainly can, within reason.
Old 25th March 2018
  #383
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
That's not a dip, it's a crevasse!
I nearly spat my coffee out!!
Old 30th March 2018
  #384
Lives for gear
 

Product works for me! I’ve had it since Tuesday I like it. I can hear the difference and my mix translation is good. Takes a while to get used to if you’ve never been in an real control room. And the NS10 Sim is great
Old 27th April 2018
  #385
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goom's Avatar
 

Without reading every page in this thread, is there a set of headphones that work best with the $99 Reference 4 Headphone Edition for mixing and mastering?
Old 28th April 2018
  #386
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
Without reading every page in this thread, is there a set of headphones that work best with the $99 Reference 4 Headphone Edition for mixing and mastering?
Sennheiser HD600, HD650 or Audio-Technica ATH-R70x.
Old 29th April 2018
  #387
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
Without reading every page in this thread, is there a set of headphones that work best with the $99 Reference 4 Headphone Edition for mixing and mastering?
Add the DT880 Pro to that short list as well. Good bang for the buck.
Old 8th May 2018
  #388
Sonarworks 4 owner here. Quick questions for you guys, has anyone been able to use a measurement mic besides the sonarworks xref20 and achieve the same results? Or even been able to compare two different mics?

To me the sonarworks mic looks like a rebranded Behringer ECM800/Dayton Emm-6 but I noticed on the sonarworks site it states. " ARC, ECM8000, EMM-6 generally aren't sold with individual calibration, so they are not best for precise measurements (usually problems with frequencies above 8 kHz), but will get the job done to some extent."

As long as I am able to find the calibration file/data for "said" microphone I shouldn't have any issues above that suppose 8khz range right?
Old 8th May 2018
  #389
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Calibration files are microphone specific ... NOT a general use.
Old 8th May 2018
  #390
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
Sonarworks 4 owner here. Quick questions for you guys, has anyone been able to use a measurement mic besides the sonarworks xref20 and achieve the same results? Or even been able to compare two different mics?

To me the sonarworks mic looks like a rebranded Behringer ECM800/Dayton Emm-6 but I noticed on the sonarworks site it states. " ARC, ECM8000, EMM-6 generally aren't sold with individual calibration, so they are not best for precise measurements (usually problems with frequencies above 8 kHz), but will get the job done to some extent."

As long as I am able to find the calibration file/data for "said" microphone I shouldn't have any issues above that suppose 8khz range right?
I used the Behringer mic, then bought the sonarworks and retested. The plots were different and the sonarworks one sounded better.
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