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Newfangled Audio partners with Eventide to announce Elevate mastering limiter plug-in Dynamics Plugins
Old 5th December 2017
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unr View Post
But wouldn't this go against the MEL Scale / theory
So it would behave more like a normal limiter?!
If you reduce the number of bands below 26 it, will indeed, no longer match the critical bands of the human ear. However, you're still breaking the sound up into multiple bands based on the mel scale, so they should be perceptually equally weighted, you're still using the nice sounding triangular filters to do so, you're still getting the benefit of the adaptive algorithms, and you still have the transient section and clipper, so it still sounds pretty good.
Old 5th December 2017
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockinrob View Post
I used to use Slate's FG-X limiter on every mix but since I bought this it has now taken it's place. This thing IMHO, is the best software limiter on the market right now. I have had several very experienced mixers comment about the way my mixes sound since I've started using this limiter, and they were all extremely favorable. Good job on this one. I love it.
Thank you everyone who's shared these comments. If you've released stuff that uses Elevate or EQuivocate, would you mind sharing it with me? The point of this kind of work is ultimately music, and I'd love to close that circle and hear what you're doing. You can hit me up here, twitter, facebook, the Newfangled site, or wherever.

Thanks,
Dan
Old 5th December 2017
  #423
Dan, I love the Elevate limiter! Thanks so much for your hard work! I used it to provide a final 3db or so of limiting when I mastered this debut album from The River Otters.

I was amazed at how punchy the transients sounded using Elevate compared to the previous limiter I was using (Pro-L ver. 1). With Elevate the snare and guitars really popped out of the speakers compared to the rather flat sound I was getting from Pro-L.

I still value Pro-L for its transparency and I did follow Elevate with a Pro-L just to capture ISPs. I look forward to ISP protection (and hopefully dual mono operation) in a forthcoming Elevate release.
Old 7th December 2017
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Thank you everyone who's shared these comments. If you've released stuff that uses Elevate or EQuivocate, would you mind sharing it with me? The point of this kind of work is ultimately music, and I'd love to close that circle and hear what you're doing. You can hit me up here, twitter, facebook, the Newfangled site, or wherever.

Thanks,
Dan
Dan,

Here's one song that has used Elevate. Co-written with Jerry Dietzel for the Kicking N Screaming project.

Fool's Paradise by Rob Layman | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 7th December 2017
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Thank you everyone who's shared these comments. If you've released stuff that uses Elevate or EQuivocate, would you mind sharing it with me? The point of this kind of work is ultimately music, and I'd love to close that circle and hear what you're doing. You can hit me up here, twitter, facebook, the Newfangled site, or wherever.

Thanks,
Dan
Here's another one for the Kicking N Screaming project co-written with Jerry Dietzel where Elevate is used for mastering.


Pride 15 by Rob Layman | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 10th December 2017
  #426
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Thanks for sharing! Been listening to both The River Otters and Jerry Dietzel stuff.
Old 11th December 2017
  #427
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After a couple of days playing a lot with it, it's def my go-to limiter now, very transparent and it actually make the mix sound better

For the CPU usage:
i use 10 bands instead of 26 since and honestly i can't really tell the difference.

For the true peaks concern: i simply use limiter6 with nothing but the"protection" with the "isp precise" activated
and when i run it through the Youlean Loudness Meter or the mvMETER/dpMeterXT i stay at -0.2db the whole time !

i am frankly shocked that people ditched this wonderful plugin because of 2 minor problems that are really not that difficult to fix
Old 12th December 2017
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7+1 View Post
I have a quick question about Elevate.. Is anyone else hearing body and low end being taken out of the track when applying this limiter? I also feel like it adds eq. quite a bit air to anything you apply the limiter to. Am i using this wrong? Ive been playing with this for a few weeks now and i waant to like it but i am jsut not so sure about how its adding eq and taking low end out. Even without hitting it very hard. Compared to the Pro-L that keeps all the density from the track.

and before anyone says.. "yeah but you can get wayyyyy louder with this one while still obtaining your transients...."

I jsut want to know why it changes the sound so drastically even on very settle settings..
I raised the 4 lower band 2db to compensate for the loss of low-end, sounds pretty good. Would be awesome if some control was added to preserve low-end without having to reduce bands.

oh, and ISP, yes.
Old 14th December 2017
  #429
OMU
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Tried with 5 bands. BIG low end. Ironically, the others limiters (DMG, Ozone, Fabfilter etc) don't sound that big in the lows.

Those who feel it changes the sound too much should use 5 bands and disable all the 'adaptive' stuff. Punchy, big sound.
Old 17th December 2017
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
Tried with 5 bands. BIG low end. Ironically, the others limiters (DMG, Ozone, Fabfilter etc) don't sound that big in the lows.

Those who feel it changes the sound too much should use 5 bands and disable all the 'adaptive' stuff. Punchy, big sound.
Just started using Elevate and so far liking. While seeking to get some more neutral-ish power/intensity, it's seemingly a valid point about 5 bands. Curious what specific adaptive parameters are implied here though.
Old 17th December 2017
  #431
OMU
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I simply turn off everything, including the clipper. Only thing that is left ticked is 'limiter gain'. This, to me, is the most transparent starting point.

After playing with the gain and speed until I get the levels where I want them, I start turning on the other elements to check what every one of them is doing to the mix. If anything improves it, it stays, if not, it's turned back off.
Old 28th December 2017
  #432
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@DGillespie, would you consider to add a "low-end preservation" control that simply raised the threshold of the 3 lowest bands slightly when this control was increased?

Id gladly betatest and compare to FGX.
Old 28th December 2017
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom View Post
@DGillespie, would you consider to add a "low-end preservation" control that simply raised the threshold of the 3 lowest bands slightly when this control was increased?

Id gladly betatest and compare to FGX.
This suggestion could have merit if implemented correctly.
Old 28th December 2017
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
What PitchSlap said. If you feel like the bass, or any frequency is fading, this is what the EQ is for. Also turning Adaptive Gain back to the default will also keep the tonal balance truer to the original.

If you turn the gain up on the EQ band you feel is fading you're increasing the gain of this relative to the others, so it will make sure to keep your bass there.

Dan
...or maybe an option in the algorithm to analyse in real-time what bands are taking a little "too much" GR and raise them accordingly in a dynamic way?
Old 3rd January 2018
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom View Post
...or maybe an option in the algorithm to analyse in real-time what bands are taking a little "too much" GR and raise them accordingly in a dynamic way?
Yeah, I might incorporate something like one of these ideas into an algorithm 2 in the future.
Old 13th January 2018
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Yeah, I might incorporate something like one of these ideas into an algorithm 2 in the future.
Good idea. Avoids any backwards compatibility issues, so that's probably the best way to go.

On the low-end issue, I haven't read every post on every forum, but it seems the universal consensus is that when something undesirable happens to the bass, it's always too much being taken out.

If some users were saying too much bass was being added it would be a different story, but it seems the frequency weighting is a bit off for some material, and an elegant solution like Limitless that doesn't require too much messing under the hood would be ideal.

In the meantime a few extra presets showing ways to maintain bass in the next 0.0x update could be helpful, especially for those less active on forums.

Last edited by PitchSlap; 14th January 2018 at 10:31 AM..
Old 15th January 2018
  #437
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In the next update please try to add more presets. I'm a huge preset guy (probably get flamed for this!). I like them as starting points and am a singer/songwriter, so am looking to do demo mixes I send out for finishing. I really am looking to get results quickly as a result, since I don't pretend to engineer. I want to get the mix in the right ballpark for vibe and balance. I do hope to evolve over time to use this in a more sophisticated way, but for now, more presets would be great!
Old 21st January 2018
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
In the next update please try to add more presets. I'm a huge preset guy (probably get flamed for this!). I like them as starting points and am a singer/songwriter, so am looking to do demo mixes I send out for finishing. I really am looking to get results quickly as a result, since I don't pretend to engineer. I want to get the mix in the right ballpark for vibe and balance. I do hope to evolve over time to use this in a more sophisticated way, but for now, more presets would be great!
Hi Ardis, I can do this.
Old 21st January 2018
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Hi Ardis, I can do this.
Thx Dan! Much appreciated. I do like to use presets for convenience and they are really useful on this deep and great plug in. I honestly am delighted I bought this and looking forward to learning more through it!
Old 7th February 2018
  #440
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Dan, super exited to hear about the update if you have any news to share :-)
Old 7th February 2018
  #441
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If you can make it quash ISPs without any noticable change in sonics.. it could be the limiter to beat.
Old 10th February 2018
  #442
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I'm a big fan of the transient emphasis, and multiband aspect but I'm still having issues with either distorted transients or distorted low-end on material which Limitless handled fine (I'm not adding any additional limiting with Elevate).

It could just be a matter of finding the right settings. I'll try lowering the speed and transient emphasis even more, but I think the spectral clipping is the weak link.

Limitless has a clipper too which I've never had any luck with, but the difference is it's optional.

It would take some experimenting to confirm, but I think the problem is the transient emphasis is POST limiting, which creates new peaks above 0db which are then distorted by the clipper.

Assuming this is the case, it would be great to have an option to disable the spectral clipping, or to set a ceiling higher than 0dB and let the overs be handled by another limiter/clipper of our choice (or another instance of Elevate using only the limiter module.)

This would also allow the common request of being able to use the transient emphasis on it's own. Currently we can disable the limiter or transient section, but the transients always get chopped by the clipper with a hard ceiling of 0dB. Going over 0 isn't ideal gain-staging, but in a 32/64-bit float mixing context I'd like to be able to take my chances with peaks intact.

Something else to consider for 1.1 or 2.0 is being able to use a second limiter module after the transient section which could provide better results on material that proves problematic for the clipper. It would also give the flexibility to experiment with splitting the limiting duties between the pre and post transient emphasis section limiter modules with different settings (i.e. 2dB pre, 2dB post vs. 4dB at once)...
Old 12th February 2018
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom View Post
Dan, super exited to hear about the update if you have any news to share :-)
Thanks for being patient, guys. I do have ISP working well and am making sure it won't add cycles, or at least add as few as possible. Once I get it properly integrated I'll have to do a round of beta (and I do have messages from a handful of people who wanted to check it out, I'll reach out to you when I'm ready).
Old 12th February 2018
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
I'm a big fan of the transient emphasis, and multiband aspect but I'm still having issues with either distorted transients or distorted low-end on material which Limitless handled fine (I'm not adding any additional limiting with Elevate).

It could just be a matter of finding the right settings. I'll try lowering the speed and transient emphasis even more, but I think the spectral clipping is the weak link.

Limitless has a clipper too which I've never had any luck with, but the difference is it's optional.

It would take some experimenting to confirm, but I think the problem is the transient emphasis is POST limiting, which creates new peaks above 0db which are then distorted by the clipper.

Assuming this is the case, it would be great to have an option to disable the spectral clipping, or to set a ceiling higher than 0dB and let the overs be handled by another limiter/clipper of our choice (or another instance of Elevate using only the limiter module.)

This would also allow the common request of being able to use the transient emphasis on it's own. Currently we can disable the limiter or transient section, but the transients always get chopped by the clipper with a hard ceiling of 0dB. Going over 0 isn't ideal gain-staging, but in a 32/64-bit float mixing context I'd like to be able to take my chances with peaks intact.

Something else to consider for 1.1 or 2.0 is being able to use a second limiter module after the transient section which could provide better results on material that proves problematic for the clipper. It would also give the flexibility to experiment with splitting the limiting duties between the pre and post transient emphasis section limiter modules with different settings (i.e. 2dB pre, 2dB post vs. 4dB at once)...
You are correct that the transient emphasis is happening after the limiter and before the clipper, and this is by design. If you think this is the source of your distortion you can turn off the Transient Emphasis and see if this fixes your problem. Being able to fully bypass the clipper is something a couple other people have asked for. It seems dangerous because I don't want people to have overs without realizing it (I'm not sure everyone understands the signal flow), but maybe I can do it with a warning dialog or something.
Old 13th February 2018
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Thanks for being patient, guys. I do have ISP working well and am making sure it won't add cycles, or at least add as few as possible. Once I get it properly integrated I'll have to do a round of beta (and I do have messages from a handful of people who wanted to check it out, I'll reach out to you when I'm ready).
Woo! Bring on ISP protection. :-)
Old 21st February 2018
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
You are correct that the transient emphasis is happening after the limiter and before the clipper, and this is by design. If you think this is the source of your distortion you can turn off the Transient Emphasis and see if this fixes your problem. Being able to fully bypass the clipper is something a couple other people have asked for. It seems dangerous because I don't want people to have overs without realizing it (I'm not sure everyone understands the signal flow), but maybe I can do it with a warning dialog or something.
Thanks for the response.

The problem with turning off the transient emphasis is then my transients would no longer be emphasized.

I can understand not wanting people to get overs without realizing it, but I think the added flexibility and additional use cases are worth it. i.e. putting an instance on a drum bus with different transient emphasis settings, but not wanting the new peaks spectrally clipped.

An easy solution could be adding a setting "allow disabling spectral clipper (warning: will permit peaks above 0dB)". That way everyone knows what they're getting into, but it will avoid paternalistic dialogs which I find tent to get annoying after the first few times.

I'd be happy to beta-test if you need someone with plenty of problematic material lol!
Old 17th March 2018
  #447
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Hey Dan. Great plugin. I'm using it on all my mixes and masters. But even with the graphics turned off I'm still getting CPU spikes in Logic Pro 10.4.1. When I disable Elevate the CPU meter goes way down.

Any ETA on True Peak limiting and ISP?

Thanks.
Old 18th March 2018
  #448
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Hi Macaroni,

Truthfully, I thought it would have been out by now. Two things have happened which have slowed it down: 1. My wife and I had our first kid at the beginning of January, and that's had a much bigger effect on my productivity than I expected. 2. ISP/True Peak has ended up being a lot more difficult than I expected. I have something that works fairly well, but it uses a lot of cycles, and I can't shake the feeling that there's a much cleverer way to do it. I may have had a eureka moment while working on it last night, however, and I'm eager to make some progress tomorrow. If this doesn't work I'll have to tune the expensive version and release that.

In parallel with that work I've been testing some optimizations with the hopes of bringing down the overall cycle count some, as well as implementing a couple features people have had. I'm planning to release this next version with these features in May at the latest. Other than ISP/True Peak and potentially some optimizations, I can't say all of what will be included, but I do want to make a commitment to get these promised features out. I have also been making a list for people who want to try the beta versions when they're ready. Just PM me if you want in (I have received PMs from a number of people I haven't replied to, but I have you all on the list).

Sorry for it taking so long, I expected to be done by now, but I guess it doesn't always go the way you want. I'm going to try to be more transparent about what is happening, though.

Dan
Old 18th March 2018
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
things have happened which have slowed it down: 1. My wife and I had our first kid at the beginning of January, and that's had a much bigger effect on my productivity than I expected.

Sorry for it taking so long, I expected to be done by now, but I guess it doesn't always go the way you want.
Dan
Congratulations Dan to you and your wife

Much more important event that than any update.

Good luck
Old 18th March 2018
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Hi Macaroni,

Truthfully, I thought it would have been out by now. Two things have happened which have slowed it down: 1. My wife and I had our first kid at the beginning of January, and that's had a much bigger effect on my productivity than I expected. 2. ISP/True Peak has ended up being a lot more difficult than I expected. I have something that works fairly well, but it uses a lot of cycles, and I can't shake the feeling that there's a much cleverer way to do it. I may have had a eureka moment while working on it last night, however, and I'm eager to make some progress tomorrow. If this doesn't work I'll have to tune the expensive version and release that.

In parallel with that work I've been testing some optimizations with the hopes of bringing down the overall cycle count some, as well as implementing a couple features people have had. I'm planning to release this next version with these features in May at the latest. Other than ISP/True Peak and potentially some optimizations, I can't say all of what will be included, but I do want to make a commitment to get these promised features out. I have also been making a list for people who want to try the beta versions when they're ready. Just PM me if you want in (I have received PMs from a number of people I haven't replied to, but I have you all on the list).

Sorry for it taking so long, I expected to be done by now, but I guess it doesn't always go the way you want. I'm going to try to be more transparent about what is happening, though.

Dan
Congratulations on your first-born! Take your time, I'm sure it'll be a great update. Count me in for testing if needed.
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