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Mastering The Mix releases REFERENCE - Mix referencing plugin
Old 6th June 2018
  #271
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
I have a problem when level matching different versions of the same track whilst mixing. Reference will turn down all versions to the lowest LUFS version (A), which makes my mix level very very low and I run out of volume range on my audio interface.

Can I make Reference increase the gain of the lowest LUFS version (A), while still having the Level Match feature enabled?

I don't want this to happen:
Hi Henrik,

The only way to do this at the moment would be to increase the gain manually of the quieter track. We can't do this with the level match feature as the playback could (and probably would) digitally clip.

We might look at adding a feature whereby the tracks are lowered to the lowest LUFS value, then normalised to a maximum of -0.1dBTP. This could improve the situation of the level match feature sometimes being very quiet.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom.
Old 6th June 2018
  #272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasteringtheMix View Post
We might look at adding a feature whereby the tracks are lowered to the lowest LUFS value, then normalised to a maximum of -0.1dBTP. This could improve the situation of the level match feature sometimes being very quiet.
Tom, that would be exactly what I would need. Or even have the maximum normalization value user configurable.

I have only used Reference for a few days and I hit myself for not purchasing it sooner. It is a tremendous plugin and it works really well and feels / looks great.
Old 6th June 2018
  #273
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
Tom, that would be exactly what I would need. Or even have the maximum normalization value user configurable.

I have only used Reference for a few days and I hit myself for not purchasing it sooner. It is a tremendous plugin and it works really well and feels / looks great.
Thanks so much for the positive comments!

I think what we have discussed would be a great addition to our next update. Stay tuned
Old 27th July 2018
  #274
Gear Maniac
Impressive plug-in...demoing it today.

Would it be possible to add a side-chain feature also, as source for the Reference track (instead of importing the Reference track)?
Old 27th July 2018
  #275
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Presocratic View Post
Impressive plug-in...demoing it today.

Would it be possible to add a side-chain feature also, as source for the Reference track (instead of importing the Reference track)?
Thanks We’ll add this to the feature requests and see if we can implement it to a future update.
Old 27th July 2018
  #276
Gear Maniac
Reference Tracks Workflow

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasteringtheMix View Post
Thanks We’ll add this to the feature requests and see if we can implement it to a future update.
That would be great.

My workflow with reference tracks is usually to have them as Track Alternatives in a separate Reference track in Logic, routed directly to the main Stereo Output (thus bypassing any Mix-bus plugins of the project). I adjust the gain parameter of the regions to match (by ear and/or by meters) the project mix level. This method also allows easy editing (cutting, copying, possibly looping) the critical sections of the reference tracks which are best comparisons to my project. The Reference track's channel strip is Muted so I don't hear a clash-mashup with my project mix! I click the Solo button of the Reference track to quickly A/B compare between the reference tracks and my project.

I also use Pro-Q2 (in zero-latency mode) on the output track, in Bandpass mode, to compare specific critical frequency bands (especially for low frequency, and mid-high brightness/harshness).

Also on this Reference track: Izotope's Meter Tap and Nugen Send, which send to, respectively Izotope Insight and NuGen's Visualizer (and MasterCheck), instantiated on the end of the Mix bus. These allow me to visually compare the signal (Spectrum Analyzer, levels, imaging, etc.).

I tried MagicAB for a while, but found it too tedious to work with, especially the small interface, and difficulty in setting loop points.

I may have to change this workflow if I do buy Reference. Reference is superior in some ways to this manual work flow (automatic level-matching, ease of band-soloing, no need to duplicate the reference tracks into the project's audio folder, etc.). However, this would involve setting up each Reference track twice: once in the Logic project in the Reference track (as just described), and again in the Reference plugin. A side-chain option in the Reference plugin would thus simplify this process.

Unless: there's another way to accomplish all this with Reference plugin in its current state, while avoiding the double-instantiation of each reference track?

Still experimenting with optimizing this workflow. It's an ongoing process, but immensely educational and helpful.

Another feature request: Allow more options for the Trinity display (which might then have to be renamed the Infinity Display): unlimited customizable bands, octaves, Mels, chromatic, etc.

Congratulations meanwhile on the great plugin!
Old 26th August 2018
  #277
Lives for gear
 
Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

Hello Tom,

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or not but I was hoping you could give me some advice please. When I set Reference up to check the loudness of my mix compared to other multiple mixes, the original's volume gets pulled down. Is there a way I can avoid this? My original will never be anywhere near as loud as my ref tracks. I would expect the reference tracks to have their volume pulled down in order to level match but not the original track. I like to mix or master at a chosen db so these volume changes with the original upset my workflow? Any advice would be appreciated thanks.

btw - I'm referring to the automatic volume matching feature.
Old 26th August 2018
  #278
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Shnapper View Post
Hello Tom,

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or not but I was hoping you could give me some advice please. When I set Reference up to check the loudness of my mix compared to other multiple mixes, the original's volume gets pulled down. Is there a way I can avoid this? My original will never be anywhere near as loud as my ref tracks. I would expect the reference tracks to have their volume pulled down in order to level match but not the original track. I like to mix or master at a chosen db so these volume changes with the original upset my workflow? Any advice would be appreciated thanks.

btw - I'm referring to the automatic volume matching feature.
Hi Edward

The automatic level matching feature analyses the short-term loudness of all the reference tracks and your original production and lowers all the tracks to match the loudness if the quietest track. This is an effective approach as it doesn’t introduce any clipping (if we turned up the quieter tracks they might clip...and if we limited them it could change the dynamics).

A workaround if you did want to keep your original at a constant level would be to use the gain slider to increase/decrease the volume of your reference tracks. You could look at the LUFS value and increase / decrease accordingly. For example, if your original was -10 LUFS, and your reference was -11 LUFS, you would increase your reference by 1dB and they would be level matched.

I hope this helps!

Thanks,

Tom.
Old 28th August 2018
  #279
Lives for gear
 
Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

Great, thanks Tom. So, as long as my original track's short term LU is quieter than the other tracks, the original's LU's won't change?
Old 28th August 2018
  #280
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Shnapper View Post
Great, thanks Tom. So, as long as my original track's short term LU is quieter than the other tracks, the original's LU's won't change?
Correct
Old 29th August 2018
  #281
unr
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Tom,

just some things I repeatedly noticed while using:

- window width is not remembered when reopening the plugin after loading a saved project

what would be great to have:
- multiple lines/rows of reference tracks
- on mouse over tooltip displays current full reference track name
- reference tracks presets (with favorited tracks for a production/music style)
- standalone reference (outside of DAW use)

thanks for your great product(s)
I own all of them.

M
Old 29th August 2018
  #282
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unr View Post
Hi Tom,

just some things I repeatedly noticed while using:

- window width is not remembered when reopening the plugin after loading a saved project

what would be great to have:
- multiple lines/rows of reference tracks
- on mouse over tooltip displays current full reference track name
- reference tracks presets (with favorited tracks for a production/music style)
- standalone reference (outside of DAW use)

thanks for your great product(s)
I own all of them.

M
I have used Reference for about a month now and find it very useful. Levels on the other hand didn't provide anything I couldn't do with other plugins I already owned. In fact some of the Levels function can be done with Reference, e.g. bass space if you listen to the lowest section. I suggest that Reference 2 be expanded to include all the function of Levels. But, please, keep the look of Reference, neither the colors or the radar-like looks of Levels appeal to me.

As to bugs, I find the Reference often forgets the loaded reference music when reloading a project (Reaper, Windows 10).
Old 29th August 2018
  #283
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unr View Post
Hi Tom,

just some things I repeatedly noticed while using:

- window width is not remembered when reopening the plugin after loading a saved project

what would be great to have:
- multiple lines/rows of reference tracks
- on mouse over tooltip displays current full reference track name
- reference tracks presets (with favorited tracks for a production/music style)
- standalone reference (outside of DAW use)

thanks for your great product(s)
I own all of them.

M
Thanks for the feedback! Your points have gone on our list of update requests. Thanks for being an awesome customer.

Tom.
Old 31st August 2018
  #284
Lives for gear
 
Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

Hello Tom, sorry to bother you again. Just have a question I couldn't find an answer to and I was hoping you could help. Possibly due to my lack of udnerstanding but I'm wondering if you (or someone else) could explain how the EQ differences displayed by the white line which compare the orignal eq to the refeence eq change pre master and post master. I'm mostly referring to compression and limiting in the mastering stage to bring up the overall volume.

If I'm mixing and I'm comparing my track to a ref, I would have lowered the ref'd volume to match. However, the EQ in the ref will still have more energy because it's been squashed already. So i'm wondering if paying attention to the EQ during the mastering stage would be more beneficial than paying attention to it during mixing?
Old 31st August 2018
  #285
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Shnapper View Post
Hello Tom, sorry to bother you again. Just have a question I couldn't find an answer to and I was hoping you could help. Possibly due to my lack of udnerstanding but I'm wondering if you (or someone else) could explain how the EQ differences displayed by the white line which compare the orignal eq to the refeence eq change pre master and post master. I'm mostly referring to compression and limiting in the mastering stage to bring up the overall volume.

If I'm mixing and I'm comparing my track to a ref, I would have lowered the ref'd volume to match. However, the EQ in the ref will still have more energy because it's been squashed already. So i'm wondering if paying attention to the EQ during the mastering stage would be more beneficial than paying attention to it during mixing?
Hi Edward,

When you hit the level much button in REFERENCE, the level lines normalise near the middle of the trinity display and are much easier to read. This makes comparing the EQ curve much easier.

Pre and post master might have a greater effect on punch rather than tonal balance (the mix might be more dynamic). So if you’re comparing your mix to a master, you might try to make your mix a little punchier than the reference.

Thanks,

Tom.
Old 31st August 2018
  #286
Lives for gear
 
Edward Shnapper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasteringtheMix View Post
Hi Edward,

When you hit the level much button in REFERENCE, the level lines normalise near the middle of the trinity display and are much easier to read. This makes comparing the EQ curve much easier.

Pre and post master might have a greater effect on punch rather than tonal balance (the mix might be more dynamic). So if you’re comparing your mix to a master, you might try to make your mix a little punchier than the reference.

Thanks,

Tom.
Okay, great, thanks Tom. What a great tool it is!
Old 4th September 2018
  #287
Great concept!
Old 29th November 2018
  #288
THANK YOU!! what a great plugin! ..answer to my prayers ..game changer for my masters
Old 20th December 2018
  #289
Gear Head
 

Hey all!

I downloaded the plugin(15 day trial) because it seems very very helpful to get your mix sounding like your reference tracks.

The problem is I'm a newbie when it comes to mixing/producing so I spent 4 hours messing with it yesterday but didn't get much wiser.

I tried out the tips of lowering bass/bass drum when the white line was above the middle in the lower frequencies but I could pull them down to zero and the line didn't come closer to the middle anyway?

And the compression indicator bars, I tried adding more compression to the channels with the high frequency sounds (vocals, clap etc) but nothing happened.

How long does it take for the frequency/compression indicators to adjust after I make a change to the channels volume or add reduce compression?

Thanks in advance,

Yab
Old 20th December 2018
  #290
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yabadabadoo View Post
Hey all!

I downloaded the plugin(15 day trial) because it seems very very helpful to get your mix sounding like your reference tracks.

The problem is I'm a newbie when it comes to mixing/producing so I spent 4 hours messing with it yesterday but didn't get much wiser.

I tried out the tips of lowering bass/bass drum when the white line was above the middle in the lower frequencies but I could pull them down to zero and the line didn't come closer to the middle anyway?

And the compression indicator bars, I tried adding more compression to the channels with the high frequency sounds (vocals, clap etc) but nothing happened.

How long does it take for the frequency/compression indicators to adjust after I make a change to the channels volume or add reduce compression?

Thanks in advance,

Yab
Hey Yab,

Thanks for giving REFERENCE a try!

The white level lines use an accumulating algorithm, so when you want the most up to date reading, hit the reset button in the bottom left corner.

When you downloaded the free trial, you will have also received 3 free guides on how to use REFERENCE. One manual, one “mixing with” guide and one “mastering with” guide. Have a flick through those to get the most value out of your trial. Feel free to from me an email Tom (at) masteringthemix.com if you have any other questions, I’ll be happy to help.

Thanks,

Tom.
Old 5th January 2019
  #291
Lives for gear
 

Bought this during the holiday season and whoever said "gamechanger" was right. This is a superb referencing tool. Will probably get bashed for this but I think this is the tool that really helps you confidently set your low end without needing a subwoofer/treated room IMO, just by comparing 20-80hz range between your track and references.

The auto-volume compensation seems to work great for me (FL Studio), you just have to becareful if you swap out of your DAW's looped section and jump to a quieter section, REFERENCE follows but takes a few seconds to readjust the levels to suit the new section, and unfortunately during this time there are bursts of (normal/full) volume material. Something to be weary of.

What a fantastic thing though. I'm learning SO much just by comparing 10-20khz between my tracks and commercial stuff.

Also, on the subject of solo'ing frequencies...if you solo a band for a while your ears get used to the restricted frequencies, then when you switch back to full range, for a brief moment it's like you are hearing the mix again for the first time - like a fresh re-glimpse. Maybe it's just me? You know - when you hear a mix over and over, you lose all objectivity. REFERENCE helps me get my perspective back which is a rather nice little unintended side-effect!

Izotope Tonal Balance Control is a toy compared to this. There, I said it.
Old 5th January 2019
  #292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MogwaiBoy View Post
Bought this during the holiday season and whoever said "gamechanger" was right. This is a superb referencing tool. Will probably get bashed for this but I think this is the tool that really helps you confidently set your low end without needing a subwoofer/treated room IMO, just by comparing 20-80hz range between your track and references.

The auto-volume compensation seems to work great for me (FL Studio), you just have to becareful if you swap out of your DAW's looped section and jump to a quieter section, REFERENCE follows but takes a few seconds to readjust the levels to suit the new section, and unfortunately during this time there are bursts of (normal/full) volume material. Something to be weary of.

What a fantastic thing though. I'm learning SO much just by comparing 10-20khz between my tracks and commercial stuff.

Also, on the subject of solo'ing frequencies...if you solo a band for a while your ears get used to the restricted frequencies, then when you switch back to full range, for a brief moment it's like you are hearing the mix again for the first time - like a fresh re-glimpse. Maybe it's just me? You know - when you hear a mix over and over, you lose all objectivity. REFERENCE helps me get my perspective back which is a rather nice little unintended side-effect!

Izotope Tonal Balance Control is a toy compared to this. There, I said it.
Old 29th April 2019
  #293
Here for the gear
 

Year 2019 and MAstering The Mix Levels still crashes on Cubase Pro 8.5 when closing plugin or even project only with 1 channel.

i tested demo
Old 29th April 2019
  #294
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranceDream View Post
Year 2019 and MAstering The Mix Levels still crashes on Cubase Pro 8.5 when closing plugin or even project only with 1 channel.

i tested demo
Hi there, reach out to our support team and we'll do what we can to get LEVELS working on your machine. Here is the link: https://www.masteringthemix.com/pages/software-support

Thanks!
Old 7th May 2019
  #295
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasteringtheMix View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dick swifter View Post
I feel the same way with EQ. I can put huge boosts or cuts on my track, to the point that it sounds AWFUL, and it's still not able to match the reference. I'm not trying to be that guy, but I paid for this plug in and really wish I understood what I'm doing wrong. I can hit the reset button after putting a low pass filter down to 1k and it's still saying I have way more hi end than the reference!

If this was working the way I expected, I would boost/cut based on what the meters are telling me, and while I don't expect it to be a perfect match, frequency wise, I WOULD expect it to be similar, right?
Hey Dick Swifter,

This doesn't sound right at all.

If you could please drop us a support request using the link below, along with a link to a screen video of you doing the low pass filtering and we'll get back to you asap!

https://www.masteringthemix.com/pages/software-support

Thanks!
Hi MasteringtheMix,

I'm having similar issues with the EQ part of the trinity display in that it doesn't seem to be affected by gain changes. I'm hoping you can help.

I have REFERENCE as the last plugin on my master channel. I've split my trinity display into five sections, and have adjusted the four crossover values to match the four default crossover values of the Waves Linear Phase MB compressor, which I have on the master channel before REFERENCE (I realize this isn't the proper way to balance my mixes, but I'm experimenting). When I adjust the gain of any of the bands using the compressor, REFERENCE isn't picking up the changes, even after I hit reset.

I can even pull the gain all the way down on one of the bands using the compressor, and REFERENCE won't react to it. The sound is obviously changing to my ears. I can then add Melda MMultianalyzer after REFERENCE on the master channel and switch between my track and the reference track within REFERENCE, and the gain dip of that band on my track is obvious when looking at the entire spectrum visually. I think that REFERENCE simply isn't properly reading EQ band gains.

Any insight? Would you like me to submit a support request?

Thanks,
Ken
Old 7th May 2019
  #296
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1_0 View Post
Hi MasteringtheMix,

I'm having similar issues with the EQ part of the trinity display in that it doesn't seem to be affected by gain changes. I'm hoping you can help.

I have REFERENCE as the last plugin on my master channel. I've split my trinity display into five sections, and have adjusted the four crossover values to match the four default crossover values of the Waves Linear Phase MB compressor, which I have on the master channel before REFERENCE (I realize this isn't the proper way to balance my mixes, but I'm experimenting). When I adjust the gain of any of the bands using the compressor, REFERENCE isn't picking up the changes, even after I hit reset.

I can even pull the gain all the way down on one of the bands using the compressor, and REFERENCE won't react to it. The sound is obviously changing to my ears. I can then add Melda MMultianalyzer after REFERENCE on the master channel and switch between my track and the reference track within REFERENCE, and the gain dip of that band on my track is obvious when looking at the entire spectrum visually. I think that REFERENCE simply isn't properly reading EQ band gains.

Any insight? Would you like me to submit a support request?

Thanks,
Ken
Hey Ken,

Yes, please submit a support request using the link below.

https://www.masteringthemix.com/pages/software-support

Ideally with a screen video of what's happening so we can take a look.

Thanks,

Tom.
Old 8th May 2019
  #297
Here for the gear
 

[QUOTE=MasteringtheMix;13968037]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1_0 View Post

Hey Ken,

Yes, please submit a support request using the link below.

https://www.masteringthemix.com/pages/software-support

Ideally with a screen video of what's happening so we can take a look.

Thanks,

Tom.
Hey Tom,

I've submitted a support request. I have a video which highlights the issues I'd detailed within my prior post, but I didn't see an option to upload anything as part of my support request. Please let me know where I can send the video. Feel free to PM.

Thanks,
Ken
Old 20th May 2019
  #298
Gear Nut
 

Anybody have an issue with the number values for the Lufs get distorted/overlapping and the numbers can't be read? Also when I'm selecting between mirror and free, the eq lines in the trinity area get all distorted and there is white lines filling up the entire area glitching. I have everything updated with my drivers and using everything past the minimum specs. I'm also talking with support on the issue but trying here if anyone had the problem as well.
Old 20th May 2019
  #299
@ nyrizzie , nope, I've never seen something like that. Latest version here, AAX, Windows 10. Do you get the issue when Reference is the only plug-in open?

Here are my settings (in case they end up being relevant):
Attached Thumbnails
Mastering The Mix releases REFERENCE - Mix referencing plugin-capture.png  
Old 20th May 2019
  #300
Gear Nut
 

@ Henrik Hjortnaes thank you for the reply. I just tried your settings but still getting the same. When I switch between the original and reference I don't think the trinity area is even updating so I have to reset. This is an image of what I get with the Lufs. I appreciate the help though. Thanks again.
Attached Thumbnails
Mastering The Mix releases REFERENCE - Mix referencing plugin-clipboard01.jpg  
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