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TDR Limiter 6 GE - Tokyo Dawn Records
Old 6th May 2019
  #331
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfi View Post
It does, actually. There's a little tick box on the upper right corner.

Not too many options though: just a 16-bit dithered output.
Good spot.
Yes, I don’t use it for dithering.
Old 23rd May 2019
  #332
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Just finished an LP for a rock/reggae band and I actually preferred a combo of ProQ 3 and this over Ozone. Great work!
Old 19th July 2019
  #333
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Hi all, a question regarding getting out the most transparent sound on Limiter 6.

When I finalise my recorded DJ sets for online sharing, I want to bring out the loudness up while avoid clipping when some slight peaks appear here an there. Which modules and settings you would recommend me to use to achieve the most transparent output?
Old 20th July 2019
  #334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy View Post
Hi all, a question regarding getting out the most transparent sound on Limiter 6.

When I finalise my recorded DJ sets for online sharing, I want to bring out the loudness up while avoid clipping when some slight peaks appear here an there. Which modules and settings you would recommend me to use to achieve the most transparent output?
The plug-in is pretty transparent all the way really, though you might want to compress specifically with the "Leveler" or the "Nova" modes inside the Compressor only, use the Peak Compressor with no Look-ahead (as it somewhat changes the sound towards the mid-lows, at least to my ears), and definitely avoid the Clipper or at least use it very carefully. You also don't want to see the red needle in the Output module move too much.

At least that's what I would try first.

Lic. Ezequiel Morfi | TITANIO
Buenos Aires, Argentina.-
Old 1st August 2019
  #335
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by morfi View Post
The plug-in is pretty transparent all the way really, though you might want to compress specifically with the "Leveler" or the "Nova" modes inside the Compressor only, use the Peak Compressor with no Look-ahead (as it somewhat changes the sound towards the mid-lows, at least to my ears), and definitely avoid the Clipper or at least use it very carefully. You also don't want to see the red needle in the Output module move too much.

At least that's what I would try first.

Lic. Ezequiel Morfi | TITANIO
Buenos Aires, Argentina.-
Hi Morfi, thanks for sharing the recommendation. I gave it a try and it seems to give very transparent compression when I only use the compressor with Leveler mode, max attack (500ms) and min release (50ms) and compression set to 1.1:1.

I was wondering can I skip the the use of peak compressor as I think it colours the sound even I put the ahead to 1x with fast recovery (multiband and brickwall disabled) as long as the red needle is not moving much? Just wondering is there any added benefit as the ableton meter is showing the track is not clipping.
Old 2nd August 2019
  #336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy View Post
Hi Morfi, thanks for sharing the recommendation. I gave it a try and it seems to give very transparent compression when I only use the compressor with Leveler mode, max attack (500ms) and min release (50ms) and compression set to 1.1:1.

I was wondering can I skip the the use of peak compressor as I think it colours the sound even I put the ahead to 1x with fast recovery (multiband and brickwall disabled) as long as the red needle is not moving much? Just wondering is there any added benefit as the ableton meter is showing the track is not clipping.
Attack time of 500 ms and ratio of 1.1:1 ?!?! No wonder you find it transparent! What are you trying to accomplish here?

Yes, you can skip the use of the Peak Compressor (because, yes, it does add something to the sound - especially with the Lookahead option on, no matter how 'far ahead') and let the Output module (the red needle) take care of it; it's not going to sound bad or let clips through at all - I promise!

All this, of course, in my very humble experience.

Have fun!

Lic. Ezequiel Morfi | TITANIO
Buenos Aires, Argentina.-
Old 5th August 2019
  #337
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfi View Post
Attack time of 500 ms and ratio of 1.1:1 ?!?! No wonder you find it transparent! What are you trying to accomplish here?

Yes, you can skip the use of the Peak Compressor (because, yes, it does add something to the sound - especially with the Lookahead option on, no matter how 'far ahead') and let the Output module (the red needle) take care of it; it's not going to sound bad or let clips through at all - I promise!

All this, of course, in my very humble experience.

Have fun!

Lic. Ezequiel Morfi | TITANIO
Buenos Aires, Argentina.-
I can't speak for him specifically, but one thing that will allow you to do is use extremely low thresholds so that the entire dynamic range is getting compression, but you're not destroying the highest levels.

I've used the DIGI 3 compressor at 1.05:1 and even 1:025:1. You have to type them in manually and they will display as 1:1, but the GR meter will show you that GR amount has changed.
Old 6th August 2019
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I can't speak for him specifically, but one thing that will allow you to do is use extremely low thresholds so that the entire dynamic range is getting compression, but you're not destroying the highest levels.

I've used the DIGI 3 compressor at 1.05:1 and even 1:025:1. You have to type them in manually and they will display as 1:1, but the GR meter will show you that GR amount has changed.
As Mike put it, that's what I'm trying to achieve with those settings - an extremely low thresholds so that the whole dynamic range is getting compression but not destroying anything or cutting anything out. I just need to tame the few highest peaks that I can't handle with gain staging my mix and thus ensure the processed mix is not clipping when shared online.
Old 6th August 2019
  #339
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy View Post
As Mike put it, that's what I'm trying to achieve with those settings - an extremely low thresholds so that the whole dynamic range is getting compression but not destroying anything or cutting anything out. I just need to tame the few highest peaks that I can't handle with gain staging my mix and thus ensure the processed mix is not clipping when shared online.
I've had no problems with the clipping (some material) and limiting being used before the ISP catch. Working with less than 1.1:1 ratios seems to me like a complicated way to handle things, rather than just letting the limiter handle peaks.

Maybe I'm not understanding your intentions.

What artifacts are you getting with the limiting?
Old 7th August 2019
  #340
was having a blast with this on the drum bus ..HF limiter ..then add pultec .. ..sweet!
Old 7th August 2019
  #341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy View Post
As Mike put it, that's what I'm trying to achieve with those settings - an extremely low thresholds so that the whole dynamic range is getting compression but not destroying anything or cutting anything out. I just need to tame the few highest peaks that I can't handle with gain staging my mix and thus ensure the processed mix is not clipping when shared online.
Are you doing this on the stereo bus or individual tracks?

Do you prefer peak limit before or after?
Old 7th August 2019
  #342
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80 View Post
I've had no problems with the clipping (some material) and limiting being used before the ISP catch. Working with less than 1.1:1 ratios seems to me like a complicated way to handle things, rather than just letting the limiter handle peaks.

Maybe I'm not understanding your intentions.

What artifacts are you getting with the limiting?
Most people don't truly understand compression and especially the distinction between compression and gain reduction.

People don't like the sound of compression in most cases.

What a lot of people end up doing with out realizing it is they use a compressor as a 10dB pad with 10dB of makeup gain. They're creating gain reduction without creating compression so it's easy to think you like compression when what you actually like is the sound of the compressor.


If you're going to truly compress the dynamic range, you need to do it in a way that's not noticeable.

If you look at the transfer curve of a soft knee, it looks a lot like creating a lower threshold. Really that is what's happening - the compression begins before the threshold.

One way to extend that even lower down into the dynamic range is the obvious move of lowering the threshold, but that's lowering the knee.

Reducing the ratio is as close as you can get to eliminating the knee. So it's a way to make the softest most transparent knee possible.



Think of it this way, if you had a section that needed to be reduced by 2dB, but that was audible and the only thing you could do was reduce it by 1dB without it being jarring, the solution is to hide the other 1dB in other parts of the dynamic range by having the compressor work earlier, at lower levels, but too subtle to notice. Then you've also reduced the size of the problem you have to deal with at the loudest section and you can add a second stage with a much higher threshold.
Old 7th August 2019
  #343
Gear Nut
 

Your post sounds like it makes a lot of sense.
Now, if I could only understand it
Old 8th August 2019
  #344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Most people don't truly understand compression and especially the distinction between compression and gain reduction.

People don't like the sound of compression in most cases.

What a lot of people end up doing with out realizing it is they use a compressor as a 10dB pad with 10dB of makeup gain. They're creating gain reduction without creating compression so it's easy to think you like compression when what you actually like is the sound of the compressor.


If you're going to truly compress the dynamic range, you need to do it in a way that's not noticeable.

If you look at the transfer curve of a soft knee, it looks a lot like creating a lower threshold. Really that is what's happening - the compression begins before the threshold.

One way to extend that even lower down into the dynamic range is the obvious move of lowering the threshold, but that's lowering the knee.

Reducing the ratio is as close as you can get to eliminating the knee. So it's a way to make the softest most transparent knee possible.



Think of it this way, if you had a section that needed to be reduced by 2dB, but that was audible and the only thing you could do was reduce it by 1dB without it being jarring, the solution is to hide the other 1dB in other parts of the dynamic range by having the compressor work earlier, at lower levels, but too subtle to notice. Then you've also reduced the size of the problem you have to deal with at the loudest section and you can add a second stage with a much higher threshold.
Mike,
Perhaps it would be helpful to try a series of Compressors.
There was a post on the Reaper forums addressing three compressors with varying RMS and Pre-comp times to help create a "smoothing" window of time.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=13

I realize that this is different than the TDR offering, but it may be better suited for your intentions.
Old 8th August 2019
  #345
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Most people don't truly understand compression and especially the distinction between compression and gain reduction.

People don't like the sound of compression in most cases.

What a lot of people end up doing with out realizing it is they use a compressor as a 10dB pad with 10dB of makeup gain. They're creating gain reduction without creating compression so it's easy to think you like compression when what you actually like is the sound of the compressor.


If you're going to truly compress the dynamic range, you need to do it in a way that's not noticeable.

If you look at the transfer curve of a soft knee, it looks a lot like creating a lower threshold. Really that is what's happening - the compression begins before the threshold.

One way to extend that even lower down into the dynamic range is the obvious move of lowering the threshold, but that's lowering the knee.

Reducing the ratio is as close as you can get to eliminating the knee. So it's a way to make the softest most transparent knee possible.



Think of it this way, if you had a section that needed to be reduced by 2dB, but that was audible and the only thing you could do was reduce it by 1dB without it being jarring, the solution is to hide the other 1dB in other parts of the dynamic range by having the compressor work earlier, at lower levels, but too subtle to notice. Then you've also reduced the size of the problem you have to deal with at the loudest section and you can add a second stage with a much higher threshold.
Not sure I quite get you here. Are you saying that when you compress a music signal by a certain amount and then use an equivalent amount of make up gain. That you are not actually reducing the dynamic range i.e. the difference between the quietest and the loudest parts of the signal?
Old 9th August 2019
  #346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
What a lot of people end up doing with out realizing it is they use a compressor as a 10dB pad with 10dB of makeup gain. They're creating gain reduction without creating compression so it's easy to think you like compression when what you actually like is the sound of the compressor.

If you're going to truly compress the dynamic range, you need to do it in a way that's not noticeable.

Reducing the ratio is as close as you can get to eliminating the knee. So it's a way to make the softest most transparent knee possible.
Very cool post and very interesting, almost conceptual, perspective on the workings of a compressor and their possible implementation on a mix/master. Thank you @ Mike Caffrey !

Lic. Ezequiel Morfi | TITANIO
Buenos Aires, Argentina.-
Old 4 weeks ago
  #347
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Not sure I quite get you here. Are you saying that when you compress a music signal by a certain amount and then use an equivalent amount of make up gain. That you are not actually reducing the dynamic range i.e. the difference between the quietest and the loudest parts of the signal?
I'm saying that a compressor can be set so that's the result.

Also the source material can create that result too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80 View Post
Mike,
Perhaps it would be helpful to try a series of Compressors.
There was a post on the Reaper forums addressing three compressors with varying RMS and Pre-comp times to help create a "smoothing" window of time.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=13

I realize that this is different than the TDR offering, but it may be better suited for your intentions.
Or parallel in series with regular to create two knees.


There's a point where the dynamic range is too wide for one setting to work on a single compressor and not sound wrong at one end or the other. There are lots of workarounds that solve the problem.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Are you doing this on the stereo bus or individual tracks?

Do you prefer peak limit before or after?
I use it for the whole track master so stereo bus. I usually put peak limit after the compressor.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #350
anyone else dig it on drum buss?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #351
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
anyone else dig it on drum buss?
Yes, a little bit of the clipper and HF limiter tool.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #352
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Same here, sometimes the clipper goes to my drum bus or some other drum track instead, the compressors seems too polite for my tastes in this specific (Drum Bus) application.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #353
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What applications do you guys find nice for the compressors while mixing?

I really wish some day TDR will develop a more characterful mixing oriented compressor, in the mean time I'm trying to find uses for Kotelnikov and Limiter6 comps in this context.

Here is one that really works nice on Kick:

Sigma Mode
Ratio 6:1 to 8:1
Attack: 20ms to 30ms (tweak to shape your click part of the bass drum in a way that suits your mix)
Release: Fastest
GR: 8dBs to 12dBs or whatever you need

This setting smacks up your Kick and keeps it in your face in a way I really enjoy

Another One:
Nova Mode
4:1
Around 10 ms Attack
Fastest Release
GR to taste

It seems to do nice on vocals preceding an Opto comp (Kotelnikov in Inertia mode)

Some other tips you mind to share??

Last edited by DanArt; 4 weeks ago at 10:57 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Yes, a little bit of the clipper and HF limiter tool.
sweet!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #355
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Bouroki's Avatar
 

The clipper in Open mode is basically a tape machine... quite awesome for drums
Old 4 weeks ago
  #356
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Anyone compared the clipper to SIR Standard Clip? One of the things I like about the other clippers on the market is the graphical representation of the clipping action.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #357
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanArt View Post

Sigma Mode
Ratio 6:1 to 8:1
Attack: 20ms to 30ms (tweak to shape your click part of the bass drum in a way that suits your mix)
Release: Fastest
That's pretty similar to what I have on my drumbus - Sigma, 7.2:1, slightly faster attack and slower release.

Clipper is first. Open mode. The bottom two knobs just short of fully counterclockwise.
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