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Antelope Announces Orion32 HD with digiport & USB3 Audio Interfaces
Old 13th January 2017
  #61
Gear Addict
Avid should really work on their DAW since allowing 3rd party interfaces. There should be a facility to either manually change the offset or automatically detect it from the drivers of each interface. It is really sad that a 3rd party manufacturer can create a faster interface but be forced to put in delays so that the performance is on par with Avid HD I/O.
The real-time FX that run on the in built FPGA are really better for tracking than using the DAW's CPU Native plugins or even PCIe DSP, in terms of latency.
Old 13th January 2017
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
Avid should really work on their DAW since allowing 3rd party interfaces. There should be a facility to either manually change the offset or automatically detect it from the drivers of each interface. It is really sad that a 3rd party manufacturer can create a faster interface but be forced to put in delays so that the performance is on par with Avid HD I/O.
The real-time FX that run on the in built FPGA are really better for tracking than using the DAW's CPU Native plugins or even PCIe DSP, in terms of latency.
They have a team dedicated to that, and their solution was to charge people $300 for the right to be able to do it! The only thing Avid is doing anymore, it's extorting people for money, and then turning around and giving them absolutely no value for it once they're done! At the same time we're all just a bunch of idiots who have lined up to give them money while they laugh at us behind closed doors!
Old 13th January 2017
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
They have a team dedicated to that, and their solution was to charge people $300 for the right to be able to do it! The only thing Avid is doing anymore, it's extorting people for money, and then turning around and giving them absolutely no value for it once they're done! At the same time we're all just a bunch of idiots who have lined up to give them money while they laugh at us behind closed doors!

It does make it look a little bit like a cash grab, doesn't it? If Avid were opening up the digilink protocol to third party manufacturers for 'the benefit of the user', you would think they might have issued a white paper outlining the spec requirements and the internal latency for sample accuracy to any third party manufacturer that asked for it. Who knows, perhaps they did.

In any case, having the I/O offset menu overhauled would benefit everyone in much more substantial ways I think. Without it, the Orion HD will only ever be 'half fixed' anyway if Antelope tackle the problem.
Old 13th January 2017
  #64
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
Avid should really work on their DAW since allowing 3rd party interfaces. There should be a facility to either manually change the offset
So true! Logic has had this for decades. A simple dropdown box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
The real-time FX that run on the in built FPGA are really better for tracking than using the DAW's CPU Native plugins or even PCIe DSP, in terms of latency.
At 96kHz we are talking 450us RTL with the ZenTour and the 1073 EQ + FET76 compressor (more like 0.35ms if you use their generic EQ and Comp). To do that in HDX is 0.7ms with the Channel Strip - and much more with most 3rd party plugs. To my ears - getting under 0.5ms takes any latency related comb filtering away. A/B'ing 0.5ms or less with straight analog becomes very tough to tell apart. And the Antelope FX and Conversion sounds really good to my ears. Sure it is NOT the workflow of HD or HDX so for complex projects this can be too much to deal with - but for overdubs or track at a time stuff... that's what I am exploring with the ZT at this time...
Old 13th January 2017
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Moore View Post
So when will there be any tests to conclude if this will indeed preform as an HD i/o regarding the revolving latency discussion?
Clybourne above has posted that it may not be possible at all due to their architecture: "It's just not possible to add buffers into the interface to adjust all this, as it would drive the costs up and we don't even use buffered-DSP processing, we use much faster FPGA."

It sounds like it was never part of their plan. However, I'm sure Antelope is clever. Hopefully they'll find a way. The fact that their conversion is faster than AVID's means it should be possible to do, theoretically. It's obviously not on their road map, though.

There's still some time. Maybe they'll delay it and resolve the lack of sample accurate conversion through firmware prior to release.
Old 13th January 2017
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
At 96kHz we are talking 450us RTL with the ZenTour and the 1073 EQ + FET76 compressor (more like 0.35ms if you use their generic EQ and Comp). To do that in HDX is 0.7ms with the Channel Strip - and much more with most 3rd party plugs. To my ears - getting under 0.5ms takes any latency related comb filtering away. A/B'ing 0.5ms or less with straight analog becomes very tough to tell apart. And the Antelope FX and Conversion sounds really good to my ears. Sure it is NOT the workflow of HD or HDX so for complex projects this can be too much to deal with - but for overdubs or track at a time stuff... that's what I am exploring with the ZT at this time...

The beauty of it is it doesn't replace any existing workflow. You still get the same HDX channel counts, I/O and DSP. Or the same HD Native I/O and low latency monitoring. It must be the first device on the market to amalgamate both front end and DAW DSP processing in such a way, in Pro Tools HD at least.

If you use a Zen Studio or Tour, RME device, UAD Apollo, etc. you immediate are reverted back to complete coreaudio/asio native processing land in Pro Tools with just 32 channels of I/O support. I can see it being a really nice addition to Pro Tools HD Native for that very reason.
Old 13th January 2017
  #67
JGM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
They have a team dedicated to that, and their solution was to charge people $300 for the right to be able to do it! The only thing Avid is doing anymore, it's extorting people for money, and then turning around and giving them absolutely no value for it once they're done! At the same time we're all just a bunch of idiots who have lined up to give them money while they laugh at us behind closed doors!
Indeed!
Man I despise those guys for all their greedy practices.
Old 13th January 2017
  #68
Nice!

Will that new O32 HD support more than 8 channels of direct (1:1) monitoring?
Old 13th January 2017
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
Nice!

Will that new O32 HD support more than 8 channels of direct (1:1) monitoring?
Can you elaborate? Our own monitor mixers have 32 channels.

So tell me what you mean? Are you referring to monitoring out of HD?
Old 13th January 2017
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Can you elaborate? Our own monitor mixers have 32 channels.

So tell me what you mean? Are you referring to monitoring out of HD?

Hi Marcel,

I mean the possibility to do no-latency mixes. The O32 (which I used to own) had only 2 channels of direct monitoring, while the 32+ can do 8 channels if I'm not mistaken.

Wishing for at least 16 (24 ideally) channels...
Old 14th January 2017
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
Hi Marcel,

I mean the possibility to do no-latency mixes. The O32 (which I used to own) had only 2 channels of direct monitoring, while the 32+ can do 8 channels if I'm not mistaken.

Wishing for at least 16 (24 ideally) channels...


The O32 and O32+ both let you direct monitor 32 channels of audio. Do you mean headphone/monitor mixes? The O32 only lets you create 1 stereo headphone mix, the O32+ gives you 4 stereo headphone mixes, but ideally you want 8 or 12 stereo headphone mixes total?
Old 14th January 2017
  #72
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clonewar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Orion32 HD is targeted towards Pro Tools HD users, who also work in Native, from time to time. We're also targeting other users who may prefer USB3, which is included in USB-C.
For Windows native users that have computers with USB3 but not Thunderbolt it looks like there's a performance benefit to going with the Orion 32 HD over one of the other Orion interfaces? Could we expect better low latency ASIO performance?
Old 14th January 2017
  #73
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
For Windows native users that have computers with USB3 but not Thunderbolt it looks like there's a performance benefit to going with the Orion 32 HD over one of the other Orion interfaces? Could we expect better low latency ASIO performance?
This is also a concern of mine, since i am thinking of upgrading my windows system to a thunderbolt enabled just to get more channels out of my 32+. If that is not possible (i.e. thunderbolt for windows not supported) and also there are other benefits, i will replace my 32+ with a HD.
Old 14th January 2017
  #74
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by defdaft View Post
This is also a concern of mine, since i am thinking of upgrading my windows system to a thunderbolt enabled just to get more channels out of my 32+. If that is not possible (i.e. thunderbolt for windows not supported) and also there are other benefits, i will replace my 32+ with a HD.
I asked Antelope about that 2/3 month ago,the answer was "
Thunderbolt is only supported on Mac and there are no plans to implement Thunderbolt support for Windows at this time "


(My 1st post in almost 7 slutty years! )
Old 14th January 2017
  #75
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd_m View Post
I asked Antelope about that 2/3 month ago,the answer was "
Thunderbolt is only supported on Mac and there are no plans to implement Thunderbolt support for Windows at this time "


(My 1st post in almost 7 slutty years! )
Congratulations then, proud to be the one who triggered it!
Actually, i just got a reply from Antelope Support confirming this. Too bad. Of course, thunderbolt for windows is just emerging so it might still be coming as a future update.
Old 14th January 2017
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
Hi Marcel,

I mean the possibility to do no-latency mixes. The O32 (which I used to own) had only 2 channels of direct monitoring, while the 32+ can do 8 channels if I'm not mistaken.

Wishing for at least 16 (24 ideally) channels...
The 32+ and 32HD both have 4x 32 channel mixers.
Old 14th January 2017
  #77
Gear Maniac
 
SonicAxiom's Avatar
Any chance that an Antelope converter will feature DANTE connectivity in the future? I sold my beloved Orion32 two years ago when I banned all point-to-point audio connections like USB, thunderbolt, MADI, etc. from my control room and changed everything to a DANTE network. The routing flexibility and the ease of integrating other audio devices into the audio network is so much more convenient. Clocking and latency are virtually non-issues. I'd happily purchase a DANTE-enabled Antelope device!
Old 14th January 2017
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
Any chance that an Antelope converter will feature DANTE connectivity in the future? I sold my beloved Orion32 two years ago when I banned all point-to-point audio connections like USB, thunderbolt, MADI, etc. from my control room and changed everything to a DANTE network. The routing flexibility and the ease of integrating other audio devices into the audio network is so much more convenient. Clocking and latency are virtually non-issues. I'd happily purchase a DANTE-enabled Antelope device!
We're not going Dante yet. One catch for us is, no way to transmit our Control capabilities. We have Network remote control now and MADI. Why not use a MADI enabled Dante device with one of our Orion32+ units and have the best of both worlds? You'd have Antelope on your network and be able to control its routing and FX from any compute on the network too.
Old 14th January 2017
  #79
Gear Maniac
 
SonicAxiom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
We're not going Dante yet. One catch for us is, no way to transmit our Control capabilities. We have Network remote control now and MADI. Why not use a MADI enabled Dante device with one of our Orion32+ units and have the best of both worlds? You'd have Antelope on your network and be able to control its routing and FX from any compute on the network too.
I'd love to do that to get back the sound of the Orion which I really loved but I'm afraid that needing a costly MADI-DANTE bridge for this setup to work is too expensive :-(

I don't give up hope ...
Old 14th January 2017
  #80
Gear Addict
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post

I also have an HD3 TDM rig. Could I have my three TDM cards installed into my computer, connect your I/O via mini Digilink to Digilink to my TDM Core Card as well as connect your I/O via USB3 as well and use PT Vanilla 12?
i would also like to know if you could run an HD3 TDM system on this. have an hdx11 and an hd 10 rig
Old 14th January 2017
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Misner View Post
i would also like to know if you could run an HD3 TDM system on this. have an hdx11 and an hd 10 rig
Just tested it today on an HD4 system and no issues. Here's the VIDEO
Old 14th January 2017
  #82
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Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

i forgot we were fb friends. SICK
Old 14th January 2017
  #83
Here for the gear
 

Forgive me, I'm just trying to be certain. When it says 64 channels over USB3, is that 64 in and 64 out, or 32 in and 32 out? I've gotten bitten before.

I'd really like to combine an Orion32 HD or Orion32+ with a Pure2 via S/PDIF as a dedicated mixdown and monitoring path. That would total 34 in and 36 out, once you add in the Orion's monitor output. Is this possible? If it makes a difference, I mostly work at 96KHz these days.

Thanks in advance!
Old 14th January 2017
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan38109 View Post
Forgive me, I'm just trying to be certain. When it says 64 channels over USB3, is that 64 in and 64 out, or 32 in and 32 out? I've gotten bitten before.

I'd really like to combine an Orion32 HD or Orion32+ with a Pure2 via S/PDIF as a dedicated mixdown and monitoring path. That would total 34 in and 36 out, once you add in the Orion's monitor output. Is this possible? If it makes a difference, I mostly work at 96KHz these days.

Thanks in advance!
Both the Orion32HD and Orion32+ are 64 in, 64 out. The 32HD can do 64 via HD or USB3. The 32+ can do 64 over Thinderbolt. Both also have 64 channels of MADI.
Old 15th January 2017
  #85
Here for the gear
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Both the Orion32HD and Orion32+ are 64 in, 64 out. The 32HD can do 64 via HD or USB3. The 32+ can do 64 over Thinderbolt. Both also have 64 channels of MADI.
Perfect. Thanks!
Old 15th January 2017
  #86
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Just tested it today on an HD4 system and no issues. Here's the VIDEO
Hi Marcel

Thanks for the video. When you say you tested on a HD4 system, was this with other HD boxes or just 64 IO from the Orion HD?

I have an Avid Omni and am looking to get the Orion HD for expanded IO and use the Orion as the Master Clock.

Will they sync together correctly? I read some posts above about latency and having to manually offset samples in PT.

Can you please clarify?

Thanks
Old 15th January 2017
  #87
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Just tested it today on an HD4 system and no issues. Here's the VIDEO
I was impressed to see that you can use both the mini Digilink ports and the USB 3 port simultaneously. Wow!

What about the ongoing discussion with sample accuracy with other Avid HD I/O?

Will we see a Goliath HD or an Orion Studio HD versions?
Old 15th January 2017
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oracle View Post
Hi Marcel

Thanks for the video. When you say you tested on a HD4 system, was this with other HD boxes or just 64 IO from the Orion HD?

I have an Avid Omni and am looking to get the Orion HD for expanded IO and use the Orion as the Master Clock.

Will they sync together correctly? I read some posts above about latency and having to manually offset samples in PT.

Can you please clarify?

Thanks
We're continuing to work on this topic. The units work together, this we also confirmed at Brian's. For playback, you can set a HW delay. For recording, as I've mentioned a record delay. People work all the time with various devices. Brian works right now with 2 Orion32's via SSL MADI HD and also a Lynx Aurora, which shows up as an HD I/O. He knows exactly how to handle the delays, so for him it's really a non-issue. I know others don't want to set anything, so we'll soon address this topic too. I know and completely understand that this question isn't going away. I am confident we'll have a solution when we ship that meets all or nearly all expectations.
Old 15th January 2017
  #89
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
We're continuing to work on this topic. The units work together, this we also confirmed at Brian's. For playback, you can set a HW delay. For recording, as I've mentioned a record delay. People work all the time with various devices. Brian works right now with 2 Orion32's via SSL MADI HD and also a Lynx Aurora, which shows up as an HD I/O. He knows exactly how to handle the delays, so for him it's really a non-issue. I know others don't want to set anything, so we'll soon address this topic too. I know and completely understand that this question isn't going away. I am confident we'll have a solution when we ship that meets all or nearly all expectations.
Thanks for your reply Marcel; much appreciated. Not a deal breaker for me if a solution isn't in place. I'm set on getting the Orion HD and if I need to move my Omni on, I will.

Thanks again.
Old 16th January 2017
  #90
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Last edited by Clybourne; 17th January 2017 at 12:20 AM..
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