The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
New Apollo Twin MkII Desktop Audio Interface for Mac and Windows Systems Now Shipping Audio Interfaces
Old 26th January 2017
  #181
Here for the gear
 

Hey,

I bought the old twin at the end of December, wondering if people who have tried the blackface apollos would think it worth me exchanging for the new model as I still have a couple days I can exchange. Though it'll cost me an extra £160 ($200) plus I'll lose the Neve & Fairchild bundles I got on the December deal... only really looking at the converter upgrade.

Probably over thinking this but be interested in your opinions

Thank you
Old 26th January 2017
  #182
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSedna View Post
Pretty sure the PCIe card and hdmi don't transit à TB stream. It is a PCIe solution as an alternative to TB.
Yeah, I wouldn't call that "thunderbolt" either, but I am extremely interested to see how Slate's interface happens in the real world experience once people start buying them. He's got "industry leading" specs at the moment, which raises a few eyebrows over here.
Old 26th January 2017
  #183
Gear Maniac
I'm not a computer expert, but doesn't TB audio go through PCIe? It's not a separate pipeline to the CPU as I understand it.
Thunderbolt 3 can only do 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3. (8Gb/s max)
A PCIe x16 card can do 4 times (32Gb/s) as much data throughput as thunderbolt 3. ( The TB3 can do video through display port as well - up to a total band with of 40Gb/s - but you can't use any of that extra band with for audio as I understand it)
Old 26th January 2017
  #184
Here for the gear
So just got mine in. Ordered through Musician's Friend (Price matched a 15% off coupon I had). I really like it. Honestly, I mainly upgraded for the talkback and monitor controls. Talkback built in that doesn't take up another input is a big win for me and the way I plan on expanding in the future. Quick toggles on the unit for mono/mute/dim were big for me as well with my workflow.

I didn't think I would notice a difference in converters at all. I don't have a golden ear like some of you but I was pleasantly surprised by how much better everything sounds. Granted, it's subtle but everything has much more clarity and articulation. Very pleased by this and also very surprised. Important to note I've only gotten to test out the DA so far. Got a vocal session this weekend though so I'll try to post my thoughts on that as well.

I will say one thing I'm very disappointed with is the monitor controls seem to not effect the headphone out. Talkback works in it which is good. But dim/mute/mono functions don't effect the headphones at all which is very disappointing. Hopefully this is something addressed in a future update.

Also, pleasently surprised to see a voucher for Helios EQ with this. Exited to test it out. Nothing I would have ever dropped $200 on.

Last edited by ckalinec; 26th January 2017 at 03:09 PM..
Old 26th January 2017
  #185
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSedna View Post
Pretty sure the PCIe card and hdmi don't transit à TB stream. It is a PCIe solution as an alternative to TB.
Actually a very smart move by Slate, HDMI has very good bandwidth which probably should've been utilized before Thunderbolt.
Old 26th January 2017
  #186
Lives for gear
 
andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckalinec View Post
I will say one thing I'm very disappointed with is the monitor controls seem to not effect the headphone out. Talkback works in it which is good. But dim/mute/mono functions don't effect the headphones at all which is very disappointing. Hopefully this is something addressed in a future update.
Curious why you would need dim for headphones? I can understand wanting a mute for them (Would have been easy to implement the button to work when in the headphone part of the monitor unit), but there is a mono option for the headphones already built into the console. You probably know that, but again I don't think I would ever need it as a quick key on the physical unit. Then again, I'm usually flipping to mono on the speakers and not my headphones that much, but that's just me.
Old 26th January 2017
  #187
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvfur View Post
I'm not a computer expert, but doesn't TB audio go through PCIe? It's not a separate pipeline to the CPU as I understand it.
Thunderbolt 3 can only do 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3. (8Gb/s max)
A PCIe x16 card can do 4 times (32Gb/s) as much data throughput as thunderbolt 3. ( The TB3 can do video through display port as well - up to a total band with of 40Gb/s - but you can't use any of that extra band with for audio as I understand it)
It's the other way around : TB streams enough data and by design is almost (if not precisely) equivalent to hot plugging on a PCIe lane. That is why you can have external graphic cards, audio cards, pretty much anything, externally just like you could plug a PCIe extension card. That is also why it doesn't introduce any latency, while in comparison USB not only is a limiting protocole in itself, but by design introduces latency in and out. RME had to dig deep down into their drivers to produce such a low latency. In comparison TB is vastly superior and of a higher hierarchy since it is able to handle USB and whatever you want just like a extension card on your board could do.

But PCIe is just what it is : a lane on your motherboard. TB is a protocol able to encapsulate PCIe and more and yes TB3 is able for the first time to stream all of it. It is also the first stream able to deal with 5k at 60hz (previous screens are double screens with two TB2 cables) which you can understand if you do a simple calculation of how much data that is per second.

Even TB1 does vidéo and audio, I'm not too sure why you wouldn't be able to use the extra bandwidth for a parallel stream of an audio interface, unless there is some technical detail behind it I'm unaware of. Maybe the audio is restricted to its streaming through the pcie lane which is then sent through the TB connexion while the TB port itself connects to more inside the motherboard ? So audio and video have to share the 36Gbit but the extra 4 can be used by something else ? Anyway that is a lot of extra room and there is little chance someone in "need" of 5K at 60hz will be in "need" of a 300 tracks sessions of audio at 192 !

Bottom line is : TB3 in type-C format is the ultimate port. We need all techno products to adopt it.
Old 26th January 2017
  #188
Here for the gear
 

Btw anyone knows what TB2 > TB3 Type C adapter is good and reliable ? last i checked there was only one on amazon from some new company and it cost like 100 dollars and was quite big. I'd like to know what is available nowadays because i was surprised to see all those new interfaces only available in TB2 (which is good but I would have liked to see TB3 ackoweledged and the MB 12 has been around long enough for the protocol to have been released by intel to manufacturers) which means you have to put them at the end of the chain if you want to use a new hi Res screen and other stuff. No major deal but since I'm planning on a MBP 16 (maybe 17 if they release an update before) with a TB3 hub setup

EDIT : I think apple has one for 35e/$ now. I didn't know. I'm baffled to see it reviewed at 2stars out of 5 and how every comment is about how it doesn't work... on their MacBook (the MacBook has an USB3.1 port, not TB. USB-C not TB-C)
Old 26th January 2017
  #189
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't call that "thunderbolt" either, but I am extremely interested to see how Slate's interface happens in the real world experience once people start buying them. He's got "industry leading" specs at the moment, which raises a few eyebrows over here.
Of course it's a very sensible, yet simple move he did. its just good to clarify this is not a TB solution and using the pcie connexion won't allow for a TB chain behind the card, only for aggregating several cards in cascade. it might still need a "full" TB cable between them but between cards only audio and driver protocols will be able to flow. Correct me if I'm wrong
Old 26th January 2017
  #190
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSedna View Post
Pretty sure the PCIe card and hdmi don't transit à TB stream. It is a PCIe solution as an alternative to TB.
Check with them first, of course, but they have that it's a TB compliant data format with an extra large, not TB compliant connector and cable. My guess is they don't want to make Apple any richer.
Old 29th January 2017
  #191
Here for the gear
 

There are major caveats if you are a Windows user. I just bought a brand new Windows 10 desktop a month ago for audio use, and it doesn't meet the specs required on the Universal Audio website:

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...-Compatibility

Quote:
A Windows 10 PC computer featuring built-in Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C is required.

PCIe to Thunderbolt adapters, Thunderbolt to FireWire adapters, and Thunderbolt hubs are not tested or supported and may cause unexpected behavior.

Connections to Thunderbolt 1 or Thunderbolt 2 computer ports are not tested or supported.
My motherboard has a USB-C connector, but it doesn't support Thunderbolt 3. So according to the UA website, I need a new motherboard to use the MK II or else I am not supported.

Hopefully UA can add more extensive Windows PC support in the future. This reminds me of the days of needing specific chipsets in order to use Firewire audio interfaces, except this seems to be even worse since you can't (officially) add a PCI/PCIe card to your system to work around it.
Old 29th January 2017
  #192
Lives for gear
 

I just found this new info on UAs support forum.

Tested Windows Thunderbolt 3 Computers

The following Windows 10 PC computers that feature Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C have been tested for compatibility with Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo audio interfaces and UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt.

Note: The systems below are compatible with Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo and UAD-2 products as of November 3, 2016 (future compatibility cannot be guaranteed).

Notebook Systems

Dell XPS 12
Dell XPS 15 9550
Dell Alienware R17
HP ZBook G3
Acer Aspire V17 Nitro Black Edition
Desktop Systems

Intel NUC Kit series (Tested with NUC6i7KYK)
Gigabyte BRIX series (Tested with GB-BSi7T-6500)
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD5 TH Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 Motherboard
Old 30th January 2017
  #193
Quote:
Originally Posted by skrasms View Post
My motherboard has a USB-C connector, but it doesn't support Thunderbolt 3. So according to the UA website, I need a new motherboard to use the MK II or else I am not supported.
Are you surprised? It's a thunderbolt device after all, not USB.
Old 30th January 2017
  #194
Lives for gear
 
andersmv's Avatar
 

I've got a question for anyone that has one of these. With the build in talk back, what happens if I start monitoring the headphone send in the control room and then activate the talk back? Am I going to hear the talkback through my monitors and get feedback? Right now with my twin, my headphone amp and distributor has built in talkback so it's not a problem as I'll never hear the mic in the control room.
Old 30th January 2017
  #195
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
Are you surprised? It's a thunderbolt device after all, not USB.
Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB Type-C connector, but not all USB Type-C connectors are Thunderbolt. UA says they only support Thunderbolt 3 (no TB2) for Windows, so people are going to be looking for the USB Type-C connector. I was trying to warn people that a motherboard without Thunderbolt 3 can still have the same connector that Thunderbolt 3 uses, so make sure you know what you actually have. I used my machine as an example to emphasize that TB3 support is far from ubiquitous on new computers.

I was surprised that this audio interface only works with specific motherboards. I figured that I could get a PCIe card for Thunderbolt 2 (since that's the connector on the Duo) and use that with this audio interface. UA says they do not support that.
Old 30th January 2017
  #196
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skrasms View Post
Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB Type-C connector, but not all USB Type-C connectors are Thunderbolt. UA says they only support Thunderbolt 3 (no TB2) for Windows, so people are going to be looking for the USB Type-C connector. I was trying to warn people that a motherboard without Thunderbolt 3 can still have the same connector that Thunderbolt 3 uses, so make sure you know what you actually have. I used my machine as an example to emphasize that TB3 support is far from ubiquitous on new computers.

I was surprised that this audio interface only works with specific motherboards. I figured that I could get a PCIe card for Thunderbolt 2 (since that's the connector on the Duo) and use that with this audio interface. UA says they do not support that.
Its hard for me to. Relieve it only support TB3 on Windows, is that written somewhere? Also if you get a USB-C/TB3 you should be able to add a PCI and used the Apollo without an adaptor.

I'm on Mac and been running my Apollo for years now over TB1, was just wondering what's going on in the Windows world.
Old 1st February 2017
  #197
Lives for gear
 

are there specs on the roundtrip latency for this for those of us trying to use the Twin as a regular audio interface?
Old 1st February 2017
  #198
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanghaitang View Post
are there specs on the roundtrip latency for this for those of us trying to use the Twin as a regular audio interface?
I don't have experience with the old apollos, but i just bought a twin mk2. Cubase shows 1.95ms roundtrip at 32 samples buffert and 96kHz.
Old 1st February 2017
  #199
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Curious why you would need dim for headphones? I can understand wanting a mute for them (Would have been easy to implement the button to work when in the headphone part of the monitor unit), but there is a mono option for the headphones already built into the console. You probably know that, but again I don't think I would ever need it as a quick key on the physical unit. Then again, I'm usually flipping to mono on the speakers and not my headphones that much, but that's just me.
For the Dim, personally I like the fact that on some talkback systems if you're listening back to something with an artist in the tracking room when you hit the talkback it will dim the music while talkback is on. just nice to have. Not a dealbreaker by any means.

And as far as from a mixing standpoint with headphones that's just me wishing they added that functionality. Occasionally I reference on my headphones as I have a real small room and am just using HS5s. And occasionally I'll flip to mono during that reference. Not a big deal at all by any means just kinda thought that would be in there the way it was designed. And I'll still just use the mono button on console for that.

All in all I still really like this unit. Worthy upgrade for me. Now if someone would just by my old twin...
Old 1st February 2017
  #200
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krollf View Post
I don't have experience with the old apollos, but i just bought a twin mk2. Cubase shows 1.95ms roundtrip at 32 samples buffert and 96kHz.
Interesting... they advertised it as 1.1ms at those settings as I recall.
Old 1st February 2017
  #201
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatsWilsonian View Post
Interesting... they advertised it as 1.1ms at those settings as I recall.
I think those numbers are for their onboard console software. At least that is what they state in the manual.
Old 2nd February 2017
  #202
Gear Nut
 

Just for anyone interested in the actual improvement in spec between the Apollo Twin MKI & MKII,
I asked Universal Audio directly and they said this:

The specific improvement to the A/D and D/A is lower THD+Noise across the board and wider dynamic range on the Line 3-4 outputs.

When viewed as a whole, the audio performance on Apollo Twin MkII has been improved. However, we did not call out the specifics in the product release.

We do include complete specs in the hardware manuals, so thanks for pointing this out. I will bring it up with our Marketing folks.


These are the numbers:
Line In: THD+N @-1dBFS @ min gain: Apollo Twin Silver -108dB, Apollo Twin MkII -109dB
Mic In: THD+N @-1dBFS @ min gain, no pad: Apollo Twin -110dB, Apollo Twin MkII -111dB
Line 3-4 Out: THD+N @-1dBFS: Apollo Twin -107dB, Apollo Twin MkII -110dB
Headphones: THD+N @-1dBFS: Apollo Twin -101dB, Apollo Twin MkII -105dB
Old 2nd February 2017
  #203
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krollf View Post
I don't have experience with the old apollos, but i just bought a twin mk2. Cubase shows 1.95ms roundtrip at 32 samples buffert and 96kHz.
They aren't talking about round trip from the daw but monitoring with effects in console. You can use the UAD plugins in console and print them or just monitor while tracking. It's an awesome system, especially if you have their best plugins.
Old 2nd February 2017
  #204
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
They aren't talking about round trip from the daw but monitoring with effects in console. You can use the UAD plugins in console and print them or just monitor while tracking. It's an awesome system, especially if you have their best plugins.
I was asking about round trip from the daw
Old 2nd February 2017
  #205
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krollf View Post
I don't have experience with the old apollos, but i just bought a twin mk2. Cubase shows 1.95ms roundtrip at 32 samples buffert and 96kHz.
Thank you. it looks like the apogee element is a bit quicker at 1.41ms, I wonder if it is noticeable
Old 8th February 2017
  #206
Gear Head
 
fatassj's Avatar
 

Now comes the question of the mk1 on sale or the mk2....
Old 8th February 2017
  #207
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatassj View Post
Now comes the question of the mk1 on sale or the mk2....
All depends on what's important to you. MK1 is still an awesome unit. With MK2 you're really just getting talkback and updated converters. With a 15% off coupon it was worth the upgrade for me. Not sure if it would have been without the 15% off though.

But used prices on MK1s are really good right now. I'm having a harder time moving mine than expected.
Old 8th February 2017
  #208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckalinec View Post
All depends on what's important to you. MK1 is still an awesome unit. With MK2 you're really just getting talkback and updated converters. With a 15% off coupon it was worth the upgrade for me. Not sure if it would have been without the 15% off though.

But used prices on MK1s are really good right now. I'm having a harder time moving mine than expected.
Do you mind me asking where has this 15% off coupon come from is it UA or a retailer?
Old 8th February 2017
  #209
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
Do you mind me asking where has this 15% off coupon come from is it UA or a retailer?
It was guitarcenter. Was a coupon I got good for like 3 weeks. It's long expired now
Old 8th February 2017
  #210
Gear Head
 
fatassj's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckalinec View Post
All depends on what's important to you. MK1 is still an awesome unit. With MK2 you're really just getting talkback and updated converters. With a 15% off coupon it was worth the upgrade for me. Not sure if it would have been without the 15% off though.

But used prices on MK1s are really good right now. I'm having a harder time moving mine than expected.
Talkback with updated converters? Sorry, am gear newb here, but if it doesn't take too long, could you quickly explain what that means?

And since I'm a gear newb, I am leaning on the $180-off new MK1's, but hmm, used also sounds good. I feel wary about buying them used though as a noob.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump