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TBProAudio releases mvMeter - Multivariable Meter including RMS, EBUR128, VU and PPM
Old 5th January 2017
  #1
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Software TBProAudio releases mvMeter - Multivariable Meter including RMS, EBUR128, VU and PPM

TBProAudio releases mvMeter, a multivariable meter including RMS, EBUR128, VU and PPM measurement.
The GUI can be scaled up to 400%!



Features:
  • behavior of classic analog VU and PPM meters
  • multiple measurement modes: PEAK, RMS, EBU R128, VU and PPM
  • multi channel metering: stereo, left, right, mid, side
  • large and accurate live meters
  • adjustable pre-gain, gain matching
  • 64-bit internal processing
  • 5 different meter themes
  • GUI resizing up 400%, ready for 4k displays



System Requirements:
  • Windows XP or newer
  • Mac OS X 10.5 or newer
  • Win: 32/64 Bit VST, 32/64 Bit VST3, 32 Bit RTAS, 32/64 Bit AAX
  • OS X: 32/64 Bit VST, 32/64 Bit VST3, 32/64 Bit AU, 32 Bit RTAS, 32/64 Bit AAX
  • Tested with: Cockos Reaper, Steinberg Cubase/Nuendo/Wavelab 6/7/8, FL Studio 12.x, PT10/12

Price: free
Old 5th January 2017
  #2
osk
Here for the gear
 

Thanks a lot! They look great!
Just test it and found a problem.. every time you change size or side selection (L)(R)(ST) playback stops.. This is in Logic with just a single synth running
Old 5th January 2017
  #3
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Looks and works greatly ( 400% ) Awesome ! Thank you so much and All the best for the years to come
Old 6th January 2017
  #4
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Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by osk View Post
Thanks a lot! They look great!
Just test it and found a problem.. every time you change size or side selection (L)(R)(ST) playback stops.. This is in Logic with just a single synth running
Yes, we noticed this on some audio environments. It depends on the HW (CPU, RAM), OS (Win, OSX) and DAW type. We found no rule, but empowering CPU and increasing RAM reduces this effect. The reason is, that during scale and theme change all graphics elements (bitmaps) are recalculated. Internally mvMeter works with 1888x1088 image resolution!
Old 6th January 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
Thanks for another great meter!

I have 2 issues, 1 major, 1 Minor.

Major - Pro Tools HD 12.6.1 on Mac mvMeter works great, but if the size is greater than 100% pro tools will crash immediately when trying to re-open the session. Happens 100% of the time whether the session is just closed, the program is quit and re-opened or the computer is restarted and the session is opened.

Minor - One tiny but annoying thing is that the mvMeter plugin shows up in a folder in the plugin menu called TBPA whereas dBMeter II and sTilt are in a folder called TBProAudio. Any chance these can be combined as you can imagine my plugin menu is long enough without having two folders for one company Thanks!!!

EDIT: Sent to support via email as well

Last edited by superwack; 6th January 2017 at 07:24 PM.. Reason: Sent to support too
Old 6th January 2017
  #6
Viking4
Guest
Hello there,

I have been using this meter in Reaper and I like it a lot. I have one feature request. It would be great if the VU meter could be calibrated.

Otherwise,
Old 6th January 2017
  #7
The most precise right now for me. Thanx!
Maybe my request is calibration button at bottom not decrease or afect the signal (sound reduction)
Old 6th January 2017
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
The most precise right now for me. Thanx!
Are you sure about that?
Because several dB offset is not necessarily "precise" IMO.
Old 7th January 2017
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Fox View Post
Are you sure about that?
Because several dB offset is not necessarily "precise" IMO.

FOR ME

(for me, for my use, and for my workflow)

Only using PPM in mastering.
Compared to LM6n from tc electronic, i prefer this, of course.
I was trying others like psp or klanghelm, but i prefer this.
Samplitude meter maybe is better. But I am in studio one, and meters and analizers tools are not very nice or precise (for me)
Old 7th January 2017
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
Only using PPM in mastering.
See, that's the thing... that one is off the most. By a solid 2,5dB!

Would you trust that during mastering?
Or do you just need something "visual"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
Compared to LM6n from tc electronic, i prefer this, of course.
I was trying others like psp or klanghelm, but i prefer this.
Samplitude meter maybe is better. But I am in studio one, and meters and analizers tools are not very nice or precise (for me)
Can you maybe elaborate (PM is fine with me, as this might go into OT territory). Host meters (digital especially) are usually super accurate. This release is a special case IMO - it's a needle meter design that feels heavily... er... can we say inspired(?)... by Klanghelm's VUMT2.



So why do you need a PPM if you already use True Peak meters (tc.electronic LM6n)?
Old 7th January 2017
  #11
Most of meters are something like simply mathematics . This is green, this is yellow an this is RED (or clip)
But when mastering different styes, yellow in POP is Green in PUNK ROCK. (for example)
None of this metters let me configure colors and values, only samplitude or sequoia.

Of course i have numerical data, ha ha ha (no sense for me numerical or graph data in a bar)
There is basic rules (like K system) and seems like none wants loudness war . . . but lot of people -like me- are living daily in that war.
Constantly!
And we need tools, different tools for different scenarios.
There is not a HEAVY METAL meter (forexample), with marks like : here RMS metallica, here RMS vanhalen in 80,s

I need tools for my work, and sometimes better tools for others, no have sense for me . . .
There is not a good meter perfect for me . . . but programmers does not work for me, works for normal people.
Then i find the better tool for me. And this metter works . . .
Nice to compare A/B steems (have the same level?) (numbers or values not important for me, is feeling, size, clear colors, speed)

Its a complex world.

(sorry for my english)
Old 7th January 2017
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

I think you need something different than this meter then. Something you can setup your reference points, your desired color codes (Cubase for example can do that for the channels and the master bus).


mvMeter is "fixed" regarding reference points. And it's offset/inaccurate on top of that.
So as Audio Engineer, I can't recommend it with bona fide. I just can't.


You already have the tc.electronic LM6n, you can shift the references (and therefore the color codes). If that's not enough for you, there are so many other tools that can do that, that work just as well and are on-the-spot accurate. Along with UI resizing, custom reference levels, etc.



Yes, there is no reference or "color code" (a la DR-xyz) for Heavy Metal, Classic, etc. This is all made up and shifts depending on the program material anyway (so the green/yellow/red codes are still the most common).

I think what you need for mastering, is a tool where you know visually(!) if you're at the right spot. And the tc.electronic one can give you that already. SLk for your average signal strength (tells you if you're on the right track regarding loudness) -- iTunes currently shoots for -16LUFS, so do certain broadcast and web-streaming hosts. Youtube is currently shooting for -14LUFS to -12LUFS, Spotify is somewhere in between. Maximum Signal Strength then equals "digital true peak max" - which is for checking if things clip or not.


This is something that mvMeter at it's current state, can not show you. And probably never will.




During recording/mixing, I do prefer a VU/Digital meter combo myself. But even here... the integration time (rise/fall) of the in this thread presented VU is off, resulting in a readout offset of 1dB bar minimum. And as mentioned, the PPM is completely unusable.

If you want something like TB Pro Audio's mvMeter, then take a look at the tool this has been heavily "inspired" from: Klanghelm VUMT2 Deluxe.

You will not get the 400% screen resolution, but you can setup the meter to your needs and it's among the most accurate "needle meter" on the market currently (along with zplane's PPMulator XL - which is half a digital bargraph suite)




But enough OT - my PM folder is open if you have further Q's.
I'm happy to help as good as I can.
Old 7th January 2017
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Fox View Post
I think you need something different than this meter then. Something you can setup your reference points, your desired color codes (Cubase for example can do that for the channels and the master bus).


mvMeter is "fixed" regarding reference points. And it's offset/inaccurate on top of that.
So as Audio Engineer, I can't recommend it with bona fide. I just can't.


You already have the tc.electronic LM6n, you can shift the references (and therefore the color codes). If that's not enough for you, there are so many other tools that can do that, that work just as well and are on-the-spot accurate. Along with UI resizing, custom reference levels, etc.



Yes, there is no reference or "color code" (a la DR-xyz) for Heavy Metal, Classic, etc. This is all made up and shifts depending on the program material anyway (so the green/yellow/red codes are still the most common).

I think what you need for mastering, is a tool where you know visually(!) if you're at the right spot. And the tc.electronic one can give you that already. SLk for your average signal strength (tells you if you're on the right track regarding loudness) -- iTunes currently shoots for -16LUFS, so do certain broadcast and web-streaming hosts. Youtube is currently shooting for -14LUFS to -12LUFS, Spotify is somewhere in between. Maximum Signal Strength then equals "digital true peak max" - which is for checking if things clip or not.


This is something that mvMeter at it's current state, can not show you. And probably never will.




During recording/mixing, I do prefer a VU/Digital meter combo myself. But even here... the integration time (rise/fall) of the in this thread presented VU is off, resulting in a readout offset of 1dB bar minimum. And as mentioned, the PPM is completely unusable.

If you want something like TB Pro Audio's mvMeter, then take a look at the tool this has been heavily "inspired" from: Klanghelm VUMT2 Deluxe.

You will not get the 400% screen resolution, but you can setup the meter to your needs and it's among the most accurate "needle meter" on the market currently (along with zplane's PPMulator XL - which is half a digital bargraph suite)




But enough OT - my PM folder is open if you have further Q's.
I'm happy to help as good as I can.

Not problem for me at all.
I can use resource hacker and modify (for my private use only) this nice freeware. (With rms and values in my hardware console and colors )

(and make schemas with skins: white for rock, black for pop, and classic for others)
Attached Thumbnails
TBProAudio releases mvMeter - Multivariable Meter including RMS, EBUR128, VU and PPM-meter.jpg  

Last edited by itbalcubo; 7th January 2017 at 09:48 PM..
Old 8th January 2017
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

So you want colors for warning zones and setting specific "custom scales".

Still, the PPM is off by 2,5dB, and I get the feeling that you're unsure as to whether or not you actually need(!) it.



A PPM (short for Peak Programme Meter) uses either 5ms or 10ms as "rise" time for the needle. It's slower than a more accurate digital meter (sample accurate), but faster than a meter that measures the "average signal strength" (VU, RMS, et al, which are usually slower than 250ms). If you need a metering tool for final mixdowns and/or mastering, "peak limiting" is not really the way go to IMO (read as: in not helpful at all).

If you need it for mixing, then a VU/PPM combo might work for you. Even with color codes (so that you know off hand "ah, I'm still within my self imposed specs). But even then... have you read the article over on KVR Audio regarding the accuracy/offsets?




Even if we ignore the issues (bugs, inaccuracies, obviously copied skins) and assume that this thing works flawlessly:
I don't think this... metering tool... is what you're ultimately after.
Old 8th January 2017
  #15
i make a video (sorry for quality)
https://youtu.be/8-oF0pwSCUo

Klanghelm vumeter and others are not really usefull tool FOR ME, sorry

In klanghelm is not posible to see black (confort) red zone, because indicator is SO FAT , and is slowly, and all is in a small space, i can not see really nothing in that vumeter. In TB y can put a red zone, and see cleary if i am in red or not.

Last edited by itbalcubo; 8th January 2017 at 01:45 AM..
Old 8th January 2017
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Okay, thank you for this video - this CONFIRMS once more that the ballistics are not similar (first and foremost). In this case: VUMT2 runs at 600ms, mvMeter at somewhat around 350ms (plus it uses the k-weighting filter). The needle on mvMeter feels therefore more jumpy - and is offset by a couple of dB due to the used ballistics/weighting filter



And now I (slowly start to) understand what you want the meter to do. At least I hope I do.

You do want an indication like with the K-System, where your mezzo-forte area is (ideal hotspot / loudness goal), and what the maximum average limit is for forte-fortissimo passages. Ideally color coded in green (below hotspot), yellow (amber zone) and red (don't exceed that value).

This is actually fairly simple to setup in VUMT2 Standard and Deluxe. In fact, there are(!) K-System Presets already. But you can fully customize the meter to your needs of course.



How to do that in VUMT2 (not possible in mvMeter unless you perform UI hacking):

Let's say your "loudness hotspot" is supposed to be -12dB RMS, and you shall NOT exceed -6dB RMS at all.
Go into the settings (monkey wrench on the UI), then to RMS. You have three options there: RMS Windows, Red Threshold and Comfort.

The RMS Window is setup to work like the Dorrough 40A RMS meter bargraph (considered to be the first "RMS realtime" meter - which works, according to the patent, at 600ms - the K-System v1 uses this as backbone)
The RED THRESHOLD declares the absolute maximum average signal strength. Set it to (for example) -6
The COMFORT (zone) is the bold black area reaching into the negative from the RED THRESHOLD. If you want your reference point to be -12, just set it up to 6. Resulting in -6 (RED) - COMFORT (in this case 6) = -12.


I understand that this can be a bit hard to read at first, but it's actually really, really comfortable once you wrap your head around it.

"But there is a second meter... thing... below it, that's distracting".
- That's actually a Digital Peak meter. So you got two meters in one, with a very, very unique UI in VUMT2

"I still can't read the meter values properly - it's all over the place, too small"
- use VUMT's HOLD function, the left numeric value is the "average signal strength", the right numeric value the "maximum peak". Though I agree, the VUMT2 UI size could be bigger. But that's a matter of preference.



Other than that, no UI hacking with Resource Hacker necessary.
Old 8th January 2017
  #17
i do not want read numbers . . sorry!
in k-vu scale in rms is from -40 to +4 ?
Very nice, mastering at +4 is so nice ha ha ha
-16 to +3 (in rms+3) is more logical to the daily work. Then i will have more detail.
I need (without numbers, only with graph) to know if is 6 or 6.3 . For this i need more space in scale.
I do not need a led clip in VU mode, need a led with clip in RMS mode. Really do not need a led or a clip vumeter scale.
The song can not clip because normally we have a limiter.

Yes, k system is nice for a future with clients with brain. (not now, sorry)

thanx but for me TB is the best solution right now.
Old 8th January 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
i do not want read numbers . . sorry!
You don't have to... the scale is good to read. (IMO!)



Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
in k-vu scale in rms is from -40 to +4 ?
Very nice, mastering at +4 is so nice ha ha ha
The RMS scale in VUMT2 is like that because of the various "K-System" scales, so that the needle doesn't need to be offset several times if you switch them in RMS mode.



Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
-16 to +3 (in rms+3) is more logical to the daily work. Then i will have more detail.
I need (without numbers, only with graph) to know if is 6 or 6.3 . For this i need more space in scale.
So you want a more limited relative scale, not an absolute scale.
Relative scale meaning: 0-reference = target loudness, up to +4 = amber zone

Possible with VUMT, use the VU mode and shift the rise/fall to 600ms. You can't use any weighting filter however.




Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
I do not need a led clip in VU mode, need a led with clip in RMS mode. Really do not need a led or a clip vumeter scale.
The song can not clip because normally we have a limiter.
I think I'm still not understanding you. VUMT2 has everything of that and more. I just explained you how to set that all up.

Your dilemma seems to be "relative scale" (-20 to 0-point to +4) vs "absolute scale" (-inf to 0dB)

Unless you need an absolute precise, sample accurate digital peak meter, but then "needle meters" are not your option IMO.




Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
Yes, k system is nice for a future with clients with brain. (not now, sorry)
If you have access to a metering tool that you can setup to your needs, you can pretty much do anything and don't need a "K-System" meter.

It's just a fact that

PPM's run at either 5ms (DIN/Nordic) or 10ms (EBU/BBC) as "rise"
VU's run at 300ms rise/fall, no weighting filter
RMS meters - have no set-in-stone standards (every dev does their own thing), but the most accepted one is the Dorrough 40A, also no weighting filter
ITU-R BS.1770-x or one of it's preset rather, the EBU R-128 settings - 400ms for Momentary Loudness, 3s for Short Term Loudness, k-weighted
Digital Peak Meter - sample accurate


Yet mvMeter seems to not adhere to the decade old standards...



Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
thanx but for me TB is the best solution right now.
But it's offset by several dB!
There is no objective comparison possible! You're proven that yourself with the A/B video.

How can you, with good conscience as representative of your company (Mixing/Mastering Engineer), deliver material that is not according to desired specs?

I just can't agree upon that.



Ultimately, it's your decision. If you say "it's perfect for me", then it is. I won't be able to convince you either. But you still ignore that the meter is offset.
Old 8th January 2017
  #19
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Update to V1.0.1

- manual updated
- Bug in EBU ML/SL pre-filtering: fixed
- Wrong VU meter timing: fixed
- RMS: changed to RMS avg and K-System
- AAX: crash during project load fixed
Old 8th January 2017
  #20
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking4 View Post
Hello there,

I have been using this meter in Reaper and I like it a lot. I have one feature request. It would be great if the VU meter could be calibrated.

Otherwise,
Well, mvMeter works with fixed (most common) calibration levels, just a design decision :-)
Old 8th January 2017
  #21
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Fox View Post
Still, the PPM is off by 2,5dB, and I get the feeling that you're unsure as to whether or not you actually need(!) it.
Well, PPM is not 2.5dB off, it is just calibrated to -12dBFS.

BTW: all meters in mvMeter have a well defined calibration, the manual helps here
Old 8th January 2017
  #22
Viking4
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Well, mvMeter works with fixed (most common) calibration levels, just a design decision :-)
Ok but when bringing up a file to final loudness it is more useful to have a calibration of say for example -6dB than the more typical -18dB. It's Ok though, there is a well known tool that can do this.
Old 9th January 2017
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
- manual updated
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
BTW: all meters in mvMeter have a well defined calibration, the manual helps here
Well now they do - with an eerily similar "look" for the "settings chart", as could be found previously in the VUMT2 manual as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
- Wrong VU meter timing: fixed
Can't fully confirm - meter is still off by at least 0,5dB on program material, that one recent report on KVR Audio has this in more detail.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
- RMS: changed to RMS avg and K-System
Changes are actually:
- 300ms ballistics
- no weighting filter
- "K-System Scale" (read: relative scale, shifted reference level)

Not K-System conform! K-System (v1) is
- 600ms rise/fall (based upon Dorrough 40A)
- unweighted
- relative scale or absolute scale (whatever works best for the task)



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Well, mvMeter works with fixed (most common) calibration levels, just a design decision :-)
Can't confirm - still offset.
-12dBFS for a PPM is not(!) "most common" as calibration level

Common is -18dBFS (EBU) or -20dBFS (SMTPE), most accepted these days is -18dBFS though



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Well, PPM is not 2.5dB off, it is just calibrated to -12dBFS.
I stand my ground on the wrong calibration level

Last edited by Mister Fox; 9th January 2017 at 05:56 AM..
Old 21st January 2017
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
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Thread Starter
Updato to V1.0.2:
- RMS: Integration time changed to 600ms
- VU: Needle movement smoothed
- PPM: Ref Level changed to -18dBFS
- PreGain glitch: Gain match now with shift mouse click on max value
- VST3: crash during project load fixed
Old 22nd January 2017
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Updato to V1.0.2:
- RMS: Integration time changed to 600ms
- VU: Needle movement smoothed
- PPM: Ref Level changed to -18dBFS
- PreGain glitch: Gain match now with shift mouse click on max value
- VST3: crash during project load fixed
Hi!

Thanks for the freebie!

Heads-up. I'm noticing spikes in CPU when switching the colour modes in Logic X on the latest release.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #26
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Weatherman View Post
Hi!

Thanks for the freebie!

Heads-up. I'm noticing spikes in CPU when switching the colour modes in Logic X on the latest release.
Thank you.
Yes, switching colour modes during playback could cause spikes on slower CPUs. It is caused by internal, on the fly resizing of graphics objects.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Thank you.
Yes, switching colour modes during playback could cause spikes on slower CPUs. It is caused by internal, on the fly resizing of graphics objects.
Hmm. It's a 2014 MBP with a 2.8GHz i7, so I don't know about 'slower'...

Last edited by the Weatherman; 22nd January 2017 at 03:06 PM.. Reason: Babble.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #28
Here for the gear
 
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Ok, but... why do you need to change the color during playback? I mean, it's not a big issue.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Weatherman View Post
Hmm. It's a 2014 MBP with a 2.8GHz i7. It benchmarks higher than the 2016 model, so I don't know about 'slower'...
Well, it is not a bug, but a side effect of the image scaling engine.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordadb View Post
Ok, but... why do you need to change the color during playback? I mean, it's not a big issue.
'Okay but...' Jeez. Miss me with that nonsense.

I wasn't saying it was. I was actually drawing attention to it because it was a minor thing. I have a couple of other multi-mode plugins where switching often involves a change in graphics too, and they don't spike.

I thought it would be an easy fix.
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