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Dutch&Dutch 8c monitors Studio Monitors
Old 28th September 2017
  #61
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6 Moons reviews Dutch&Dutch 8C
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/...dutch-dutch-8c

Keith
Old 11th January 2018
  #62
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Found you here LuXx!
Old 11th January 2018
  #63
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I have being considering about getting the Kii 3s but sadly not having a place that i can demo them in the DC area has stopped me from pulling the trigger. Now... a new player in town got me very interested! so far the reviews ive seen from the 8cs are amazing (kinda specific in what i have been looking for) but the same history "i can not demo a pair" anybody that knows who is selling the 8cs USA (DC?)
Old 11th January 2018
  #64
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Contact Dutch & Dutch
Dutch & Dutch - Next generation sound systems
A US distributor is listed.
Keith
Old 11th January 2018
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NostreDamnz View Post
I have being considering about getting the Kii 3s but sadly not having a place that i can demo them in the DC area has stopped me from pulling the trigger. Now... a new player in town got me very interested! so far the reviews ive seen from the 8cs are amazing (kinda specific in what i have been looking for) but the same history "i can not demo a pair" anybody that knows who is selling the 8cs USA (DC?)
Ha! Kiis are amazing, haven't heard the dutch and dutch though
Old 12th January 2018
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuXx View Post
Ha! Kiis are amazing, haven't heard the dutch and dutch though
I hear bro! im so mad i can not demo a pair :(
Old 12th January 2018
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
Contact Dutch & Dutch
Dutch & Dutch - Next generation sound systems
A US distributor is listed.
Keith
Awesome! thanks a lot. If i get the opportunity to demo a pair i may pull the trigger.
Old 14th January 2018
  #68
What are the latency specs for these? I recall the Kii 3 are around 90ms which makes them not suitable as a monitor that’s primarily used for composing and tracking.
Old 14th January 2018
  #69
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They don’t have any or very little one millisecond I believe, Dutch&Dutch use an ingenious cabinet design to create an effective inverse cardioid microphone, their cardioid implementation is more effective than Kiis ( in term of frequency extension and gain) but does result in a slightly larger and heavier 32kg speaker.
They are designed to be used close e to the rear wall 10-60cm promotes boundary coupling , placement settings are via app ,the speaker adjusts its own output according to position.
On some programme ,electronics for example the Kiis and 8Cs are almost indistinguishable but with genuine acoustic recording, voice for example I find the 8Cs sound a great deal more natural, more ‘chest’ component to the voice and each specific acoustic is easily indentified .
I believe both should be on anyone’s audition list.
Keith
Old 14th January 2018
  #70
D&D looks really great, they are getting my interest more & more . Puriteaudio have you tested the 8m model? Any word about them, I know they don't have the cardiod thing but would love to know a little bit about them also.
Old 14th January 2018
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
They don’t have any or very little one millisecond I believe, Dutch&Dutch use an ingenious cabinet design to create an effective inverse cardioid microphone, their cardioid implementation is more effective than Kiis ( in term of frequency extension and gain) but does result in a slightly larger and heavier 32kg speaker.
They are designed to be used close e to the rear wall 10-60cm promotes boundary coupling , placement settings are via app ,the speaker adjusts its own output according to position.
On some programme ,electronics for example the Kiis and 8Cs are almost indistinguishable but with genuine acoustic recording, voice for example I find the 8Cs sound a great deal more natural, more ‘chest’ component to the voice and each specific acoustic is easily indentified .
I believe both should be on anyone’s audition list.
Keith
Sounds similar to the Geithain way of doing cardioid response. Do you have a manual link for the 8C - the official website link doesn't work? I'd also be interested in seeing what the Clerk software looks like if you have some pics?
Old 14th January 2018
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heraldo_jones View Post
D&D looks really great, they are getting my interest more & more . Puriteaudio have you tested the 8m model? Any word about them, I know they don't have the cardiod thing but would love to know a little bit about them also.
They arrived literally just before Christmas, I quickly connected them but haven’t really had a chance to compare because the 8Cs were out with Bob Macc.
I will set them up next to the 8Cs and have a serious listen.
They are exactly the same overall dimensions but somewhat lighter then the 8Cs, bass doesn’t extend quite as deep, and as you say not cardioid, they do have inbuilt a/d d/a and the ‘clerk ‘ control.
They are cheaper of course £5450 inc vat compared to £8995 inc for the 8Cs.
Keith
Old 14th January 2018
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
Sounds similar to the Geithain way of doing cardioid response. Do you have a manual link for the 8C - the official website link doesn't work? I'd also be interested in seeing what the Clerk software looks like if you have some pics?
Geithain create a cardioid response for the lower bass, I believe both Kii and D&D believe that is better to remove colouration from the from the upper bass/lower midrange 60Hz to around 2kHz.
This is the opening page showing the attenuation function


On/off ,mute, night mode and whether the speaker accepts a digital or analogue feed.
Old 14th January 2018
  #74
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This page opens when you hit the ‘cog’ on the right it is the main set up page,



Here you can ‘group’ the speakers, set boundary filters ,distance from front and side walls, set bass and treble, integrate sub woofers.
‘edit filters’ allows access to the 8Cs built in EQ.
When you click any option another page opens showing the full range of adjustment.


If I can help with anything else or if you have any technical questions Martijn at D&D is always extremely
helpful.
Keith

keith

Last edited by puriteaudio; 14th January 2018 at 02:28 PM.. Reason: Helpful.
Old 14th January 2018
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
What are the latency specs for these? I recall the Kii 3 are around 90ms which makes them not suitable as a monitor that’s primarily used for composing and tracking.
I believe the low latency mode on the Kii's are 1ms.
Old 14th January 2018
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
If I can help with anything else or if you have any technical questions Martijn at D&D is always extremely
helpful.
Keith

keith
Thanks for the pictures Keith, very helpful.
Old 14th January 2018
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyespinoza View Post
I believe the low latency mode on the Kii's are 1ms.
Yeah I did read that, but I presumed there must be a compromise in performance otherwise there would be no need for the 90ms mode. For my job i’m always writing and mixing simultaneously and would never use the 90ms mode, so it could be a waste.
Old 14th January 2018
  #78
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Apparently you only lose the phase coherence in the Kiis ‘Low latency’ mode, everything else is untouched, and the Kii ‘control’ offers more options than the speakers themselves.
Keith
Old 15th January 2018
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
Sounds similar to the Geithain way of doing cardioid response. Do you have a manual link for the 8C - the official website link doesn't work? ...
Perhaps their web software is by KII

This will get you the manual. Formatting is a bit wonky from html conversion, but usable.
Old 15th January 2018
  #80
Old 15th January 2018
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
Works now thanks. Must have been a glitch.
Old 18th January 2018
  #82
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Has anybody here heard them side by side.. Kii vs. Dutch&Dutch?
And whats your impression? I don't want a super technical analysis but more of your personal preference and feeling which speaker you enjoyed better or would give a better working horse.
Do the Dutch&Dutch go louder than Kiis? Thats the only major thing which botherred me.. the Kiis are not super loud!
Do the D&D use Hypex amps too and do they use passive or active cardiod system?

thanks a lot
Old 18th January 2018
  #83
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We have them side by side here, on some programme they are inseparable , both full-range 20Hz up, both cardioid, the Kiis use a delayed crossover, the 8Cs is based on cabinet design like the inverse of a cardioid microphone .
Perhaps the 8Cs are a little more ‘natural’ sounding, voices and natural acoustic sound very good on the Dutch & Dutch.
Bob Macc has spent considerable time with each and he has threatened to write something.
As always you really need to listen to both in your room.
Keith
Old 19th January 2018
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
We have them side by side here, on some programme they are inseparable , both full-range 20Hz up, both cardioid, the Kiis use a delayed crossover, the 8Cs is based on cabinet design like the inverse of a cardioid microphone .
Perhaps the 8Cs are a little more ‘natural’ sounding, voices and natural acoustic sound very good on the Dutch & Dutch.
Bob Macc has spent considerable time with each and he has threatened to write something.
As always you really need to listen to both in your room.
Keith

Hey Keith,

thanks for your brief evaluation. Would you say that the D&Ds cardioid works as good as the Kiis?
I had the Kiis in my room and was really impressed on how good they work with not setting the room off so badly like any other speaker would.
Do the D&D deliver the same quality?
Wondering, since they have 2 drivers less per speaker!
Tho I am asking myself what those vents on the sides are for?
Old 19th January 2018
  #85
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Yes perhaps better, the 8Cs are designed to be ‘boundary coupled, ie placed close to a rear wall so that the direct and rear propagated low bass arrive at the same time.
The enclosure is sealed the vents on the sides are part of the cardioid implementation.
The bass of the 8C is punchier than the Kii especially if you can use them close to front wall, all distance parameters are set by app, the speaker adjusts its output accordingly.
Kii 6x6.5” drivers, 8C 3 x 8” drivers
When we were Kii stockists and were able to demonstrate both customers did tend to prefer the 8Cs , if the slightly larger,heavier enclosure wasn’t an issue.
Keith
Old 19th January 2018
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
The bass of the 8C is punchier than the Kii especially if you can use them close to front wall, all distance parameters are set by app, the speaker adjusts its output accordingly.
Thanks once again Keith.. all that sounds almost too good to be true hehe.
One last question before I stop bothering you:
Do the D&D also deliver that same midrange detail and resolution as the Kiis?
I am really worried about that since I'd rate the Kiis as a 3 Way-System with Subwoofer and the D&D as a 2-way System with Sub.
And from my experience, an additional mid-range driver is mandatory when it comes to hi-res mid detail.. and from what I see the D&D lack a midrang driver
Old 19th January 2018
  #87
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Firstly the 8C is a three way, the front 8” driver is the midrange the two rear 8” cover the bass much in the same way as the Kii uses the same diameter drivers for mid and bass.
Both speakers have extraordinary clarity, both share a cardioid response centred around the upper bass/midrange perhaps the 8Cs sound even more natural especially I find with voice.
Best If you can compare both side by side, either speaker is superb and in my opinion both are well ahead of any opposition at any price point.
Keith
Old 19th January 2018
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midmost View Post
Tho I am asking myself what those vents on the sides are for?
According to this article here, those slits are ports which are used to make this speakers cardioids, from what I understand.
(Dutch & Dutch | The Ear)
I quote the part:

"Their intention is to make use of the sound coming off the back of the driver by using a specially-designed enclosure which has a side openings to release the energy at an equal level to the frontal sound but, crucially, in anti-phase. Therefore, the sound from the front and the sound coming through the slits meet at the rear of the cabinet, where they cancel each other."

Hope that helps
Old 14th March 2018
  #89
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For all Swedish Gearslutz it may be interesting to know that this Sunday (18th March) there will be a Dutch & Dutch 8c demo at high-end hifi dealer Perfect Sense in Stockholm. I will be attending and I would love to meet some of you!

Event med Dutch & Dutch hos Perfect sense den 18 mars 2018
Old 31st March 2018
  #90
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Does anyone know on what stands the Dutch & Dutch speakers are on in the picture of this thread?
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