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Dutch&Dutch 8c monitors Studio Monitors
Old 22nd June 2017
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
Typically I have only had the chance to unpack one, have a quick look at the app, and am now waiting at the airport, back in a few days!
Keith
I can't wait to hear your review of the 8C! Will definitely check back in a few days!
Old 22nd June 2017
  #32
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I have just placed them on the Kii's stands, the 8C's are big, pictured here next to the Manger C-1s which are themselves not exactly small,


Keith
Old 22nd June 2017
  #33
Really good looking! Rear woofers seems to be a long excursion ones.
Old 22nd June 2017
  #34
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So non-passive cooling? Other makers have done this before but I always find this concerning on speakers positioned in the nearfield.

Old 22nd June 2017
  #35
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Yes you can see the fan cover from the bass, the speakers are completely silent even after hours of being 'on' , had a quick listen this afternoon, I haven't adjusted them and I just placed them on the Kii's stands ( until their custom pair arrive) which are a little tall.
Adjustments are via their own app, I will screenshot the app , you can load your own filters, adjust 'boundary' and 'contour' filters, select digital or analogue input ,just like the Kii's, and volume.
Keith
Old 22nd June 2017
  #36
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Sadly the thread has been moved but just examining the rear of my 8C's there are no vents which are included in the diagram above, I will check with Martijn of Dutch &Dutch regarding cooling



Keith
Old 22nd June 2017
  #37
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Seems to be in the right forum now.
Old 23rd June 2017
  #38
I would love to hear these. When I heard the Kiis I was really impressed. They were unlike any monitor I have ever heard and are a pleasure to work on. How much are the D&Ds for the pair?
Old 26th June 2017
  #39
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The RRP for the 8Cs is Euros 9750 per pair Inc vat and delivery.
Just experimenting with them and perhaps will measure today, Martijn ( acoustic engineer) recommends best performance 10-40 cm away from rear wall and at least 30cm from the side walls ro allow the cardiod response to fully function.
At the moment I have them out 'free field' and have adjusted their parameters ,adjustments are made by app.
They sound really good, a pair of Kii's should return this week and I will compare.
Keith
Old 26th June 2017
  #40
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Will be tracking this thread. The D&D and Kii speakers look like contenders for my 2 channel music system.
Old 26th June 2017
  #41
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Martijn from Dutch&Dutch recommends,
Quote,
'Try to keep them away from the sidewalls. A too early sidewall reflection may cause audible coloration and it affects imaging. Try to get at least 70 cm for best performance, but more doesn't hurt. With respect to the rear wall, 10 to 50 cm is best. At more than 60 cm performance is still good, but slightly less so. At about 1 meter out, performance is clearly negatively affected. Get them at more than about 1.5 meter (free-field setting) and things are good again, but not quite as good as when placed close to the rear wall. '
The 8C's just like the Kii's are designed to be used extremely close to the rear wall, proximity to boundaries will reinforce bass output.
They are fine speakers though they share the clarity of the Kii's.
Keith
Old 29th June 2017
  #42
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Placed the Kii's back on their stands and measured ,so this is Kii THREE and Dutch&Dutch 8C , microphone unchanged with respect to position.
Keith
Old 29th June 2017
  #43
Awesome measurements
Old 29th June 2017
  #44
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Very impressive. Could you please describe the characteristic differences between the two
Old 29th June 2017
  #45
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Which one is which? Guessing green is the 8C?
And is the vertical grid 10dB? The picture trims the Y axis but it looks like the X-Y axes cross at 0dB and the next one up says 10dB. So we're looking at a peak to dip of almost 20dB (ignoring the obvious room mode)?
Pretty impressive low end at that volume at <40Hz and at >3kHz flattened nicely. Looks like "pink/purple" is the better performer though (once again ignoring the room mode and the comb filtering that both are showing.)
Approx how far was your mic placed? 1 meter?
Old 29th June 2017
  #46
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I will try and post the MDAT fIles, I think I might need to 'zip' them to post here, magenta is 8C , microphone position unchanged just put the KiiS on the stands in place of the 8Cs, sound wIse very similar, perhaps a little more crispness in the 8CS?
Microphone was approx two metres away.
This is one of my 'traditional ' actives measured in the very same positions.
Blue are the Kii's, green the 'other'!


keith
Old 29th June 2017
  #47
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Something's just flat out wrong with that green speaker in the second graph. Zero speakers should have a fall-off like that.
So in your first graph, since the 8C was the magenta, it was the better performer.
Old 29th June 2017
  #48
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I will re-measure the 'traditional ' active again tomorrow, REW can be flaky on my Mac, in the original pairing both traces are pretty similar the 8C is a good sounding loudspeaker I am not disappointed.
Keith
Old 30th June 2017
  #49
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You were right about the green graph, I am not sure what I did there!
Measured again today, and added Kii measurements taken yesterday from practically the same position.
Keith
Attached Thumbnails
Dutch&amp;Dutch 8c monitors-img_0898.jpg  
Old 30th June 2017
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
You were right about the green graph, I am not sure what I did there!
Measured again today, and added Kii measurements taken yesterday from practically the same position.
Keith
Dutch red and Kii blue?
Old 30th June 2017
  #51
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No, the last graph, post 49,
Red Kii, and blue a very highly respected 'traditional' active monitor.
Keith
Old 30th June 2017
  #52
Awesome performance
Old 30th June 2017
  #53
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If isn't bad from an essentially untreated domestic room, subjectively you can easily hear the difference between the Kii's , 8Cs and traditional active loudspeakers.
Keith
Old 30th June 2017
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
No, the last graph, post 49,
Red Kii, and blue a very highly respected 'traditional' active monitor.
Keith
FYI:
If you click on the name of the measurement in the left-hand column and change it to the speaker name (instead of the date; or even just add the speaker name), the legend on the graph will update and people won't keep asking you the question on which speaker is which. It also transfers if you bring data from one measurement into another.

Last edited by pentagon; 30th June 2017 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 30th June 2017
  #55
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Graphs aside how do they sound? This is more what im interested in.
Old 30th June 2017
  #56
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They are excellent Luxx, maybe a bit punchier than the Kii's , perhaps even a touch clearer/ crisper, really difficult to say because the stands I am having made for the 8Cs haven't arrived and I don't have a Harman type 'shuffler' for moving the speakers into position!
But their FRs are remarkably similar I have never seen two such similar plots.
Keith
Old 30th June 2017
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
They are excellent Luxx, maybe a bit punchier than the Kii's , perhaps even a touch clearer/ crisper, really difficult to say because the stands I am having made for the 8Cs haven't arrived and I don't have a Harman type 'shuffler' for moving the speakers into position!
But their FRs are remarkably similar I have never seen two such similar plots.
Keith
Wow thats impressive, how is the low end and the imaging?
Old 30th June 2017
  #58
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The 8Cs have a cardiod bass , slightly differences im-lamentation to the Kis but as you can see from the plots they work, bass is extended with each element clearly defined they are like the Kii's in that respect .
Pairs are appearing if you fancy a listen let me know.
Keith
Old 24th July 2017
  #59
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New custom design stands arrived, the acoustic centre of the speaker is midway between tweeter and mid-range cone, positioned now 20cm from rear wall they sound absolutely fantastic, I am not sure whether I prefer the 8Cs or Kii THREEs they are both superb.
Some more photographs and measurements here,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/blog

Keith
Old 2nd September 2017
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
The 8Cs have a cardiod bass
Keith
The 8" mid/woofer has cardioid output to optimize directionality.

The subs are actually rear-facing to use the rear-wall reflection to create the desired (combined) output forwards.

That's how it was explained at the demo I attended.
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