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N4 (Nebula4) is finally out! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 25th December 2016
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
Rose does not seem to generate a .SER file when I launch it on Mac, either in AU or VST. I've never had any problems getting Acustica plug-ins to generate a .SER file and recently authorized LIME successfully. I've tried with two different hosts: Studio One and Reaper.
Check in vst folder on your drive . Had the same issue but found ser file over there.
Old 25th December 2016
  #152
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
By the way there are numerous audio plugins that are technically
more complex that Lime, Coral or Sand which you think are very complex.
I assume you don´t know a **** about software programming let alone about audio programming, so please don´t act here as if you where an expert.
Thank you
Old 25th December 2016
  #153
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
This argument is absurd.
Coding complexity is NOT measured by
GBs of data that you are moving around.

According to your "logic", Google, Amazon and every other major
internet company (which operates on Petabyte to Exabyte scales)
should be crashing every 2 milliseconds.

By the way there are numerous audio plugins that are technically
more complex that Lime, Coral or Sand which you think are very complex.
I will mention a few:

- Omnisphere contains hundreds of algorithms (fx, filters), 100 times
more complicating routing and modulation than Lime and also dozens of GBs of more data.

- Brainworx channel: models 72 channels individually of a full console
and 150+ electronic components each with its own modeling.

- The uad platform: has a dedicated fpga hardware processor that works
seamlessly with PCs and Macs and all DAWs and with the apollo audio interfaces etc.

And may many more (Reaper, the NI platform, new generation
instruments like Falcon, Avenger, etc.etc.).

These products are rock solid and rarely have crashes or debilitating bugs.

How is this accomplished? For starters, these are platforms that
are developed on 5-10 year cycles. They do not have a new tech
redux every month.
You went from core 4 to core 9 in about a year. You do not have time to
debug your installers, let alone the codes running under the plugins.

your argument is flawed again. The model from brianworx is a single console. we modeled 4 compressors and 2 consoles, with all possible routing between those elements. Don't get me wrong, it is a complex device (they even modeled expanders/gates), but this is a SINGLE console. We have TWO. And routing. And innovative things like SHMOD.

If you want to compare uad platform you need to compare nebula.
Let me tell you what nebula is: it is an engine in development for 11 years and being compatible with all emulations created by 3rd party developers during the yeasr. We are speaking about 30000 "programs" and we are backward compatible. It was a challenge.
It is an engine able to do on a single core processor 1 million of queries for second, and to load gigabytes of encrypted xml like they were few kbytes of data. Most of the engine is coded directly in assembler.
About core 4 to core 9 you are still plain wrong. Let me list our core updates:

core5 - > february 2014
core6 -> march 2015
core7 -> october 2015
core8 -> april 2016
core9 -> september 2016

Basically we are releasing a new engine version each 6 months. Before 2014 we were doing these things in our spare time.
Each new core is a thunder. Core5 started the multi-instance concept. Core6 added the coalescing of nebula instances. Core7 added a zero latency convolution engine. Core8 added a new approach to compression and a new approach on partial load of equalizer data. Core9 added the multi-instance architecture you have in Nebula4, it improved compressors to a completely new level, added the concept of asyncrhonous control rate and a long list of innovative technologies, like ultrasync and ultramatch.
Old 25th December 2016
  #154
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imloggedin's Avatar
 

I was weary of this being a significant improvement but I am a long time Nebula user so I went ahead and bought it while its on sale. I usually use at least 2 Nebula instances on my master bus, AlexB 4kD Group and Henry Olonga Fairchild Stereo MOJO. I don't know if my previous Nebula 3 instances were configured wrong but there is a quite noticeable improvement immediately on my stereo image and depth. I replaced at least 4 other Nebula 3 instances with noticeable improvement. I am not sure what you guys did but I like it! CPU usage as approximately the same for me.
Old 25th December 2016
  #155
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by imloggedin View Post
I was weary of this being a significant improvement but I am a long time Nebula user so I went ahead and bought it while its on sale. I usually use at least 2 Nebula instances on my master bus, AlexB 4kD Group and Henry Olonga Fairchild Stereo MOJO. I don't know if my previous Nebula 3 instances were configured wrong but there is a quite noticeable improvement immediately on my stereo image and depth. I replaced at least 4 other Nebula 3 instances with noticeable improvement. I am not sure what you guys did but I like it! CPU usage as approximately the same for me.
just tell cosnyc we worked hard
Old 25th December 2016
  #156
Gear Addict
 

the ser-file for rose is is named n4 if I remember correctly
Old 25th December 2016
  #157
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
I have paid a lot of money on acustica products and i have lost countless
hours with its bugs, and therefore I have
every right to exercise my first amendment and my customer's rights
to criticism.

All the improvements that I have seen in acustica
were directly related to very public complaints and criticisms.

If you do not like my posts, feel free to not read them or to block me away.
It's not just you, it's those other idiots as well that seem to think that these threads are here for their continual crap talk. I and others are interested in solving problems and sharing experiences.
If you guy's have a problem with AA products, get on the phone to them, write them, complain to your wives about them. As for your first amendment,
I don't live in America!
I and others want to discuss positive affairs about mixing not sifting through crap.
Old 25th December 2016
  #158
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
I assume you don´t know a **** about software programming let alone about audio programming, so please don´t act here as if you where an expert.
Thank you

This is comedic gold!

Which one of my arguments above you find technically incorrect
from the perspectives of algorithm design, software engineering, audio
DSP coding, or computational complexity analysis?

Or you just "assume" that I am incorrect, just like you "assume"
what I know and what I do not know?
Old 25th December 2016
  #159
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTW View Post
It's not just you, it's those other idiots as well that seem to think that these threads are here for their continual crap talk. I and others are interested in solving problems and sharing experiences.
If you guy's have a problem with AA products, get on the phone to them, write them, complain to your wives about them. As for your first amendment,
I don't live in America!
I and others want to discuss positive affairs about mixing not sifting through crap.
I really suggest you block me and anyone who bothers you.
Old 25th December 2016
  #160
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
you are derailing the discussion. If you want to complain something, for example acquas there is a topic about them
If you want to complain nebula4 it is fine, but please do it! it seems like you are speaking about general issues, but I cannot help you on phylosophy matters.
Did you find something wrong in Nebula4? Something specific we can work on ? Something we could improve?
Most of your arguments are about "comunication", than you start speaking about "bugs", but my impression is that you didn't even try it. You would spend your time on those new compressors, raising your eyebrows.

I'm here for answering questions and checking if I can help in some way. If not, I would prefer to spend my time in a different way, today it is christmas.
Old 25th December 2016
  #161
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ROCKER STUDIOS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKER STUDIOS View Post
So I'm confused looking on my dashboard once again I've never used nebula products before I see one download nebula setup May 18th 2016 and another download nebula man February 10th 2014 I'm running osx do I need to wait for newer files or what trying to download N4
hello anybody?
Old 25th December 2016
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deff J View Post
the ser-file for rose is is named n4 if I remember correctly
If so, then its not working.

Nebula 4 is up and registered while rose keep asking for auth.

My rose also doesn't generate ser file.
Old 25th December 2016
  #163
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zaphod's Avatar
If you bought nebula4 upgrade you should have the product in your dashboard as "n4" right now. If not, fire a ticket, they will help you.
Old 25th December 2016
  #164
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
Rose does not seem to generate a .SER file when I launch it on Mac, either in AU or VST. I've never had any problems getting Acustica plug-ins to generate a .SER file and recently authorized LIME successfully. I've tried with two different hosts: Studio One and Reaper.
N4.ser I know, I know.
Old 25th December 2016
  #165
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tan View Post
If so, then its not working.

Nebula 4 is up and registered while rose keep asking for auth.

My rose also doesn't generate ser file.
if nebula4 is correclty authorized, move the n4.aut file also in the same folder where rose executable is located. Other users authorized rose, so I guess it is something specific, if you still have issues raise a ticket
Old 25th December 2016
  #166
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
your argument is flawed again. The model from brianworx is a single console. we modeled 4 compressors and 2 consoles, with all possible routing between those elements. Don't get me wrong, it is a complex device (they even modeled expanders/gates), but this is a SINGLE console. We have TWO. And routing.
How many channels did you sample in each console?
When you say a console you mean ONE channel right?
By your math, Brainworx has modeled the equivalent
of 72 of your consoles.

ALSO: when Brainworx models a channel they hand code it.
When you say you "model", you make a recording. Big difference in complexity of work
(I am not saying which is better, just which is more complex).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
About core 4 to core 9 you are still plain wrong. Let me list our core updates:

core5 - > february 2014
core6 -> march 2015
core7 -> october 2015
core8 -> april 2016
core9 -> september 2016

.
I stand corrected: you went 5 generations in ~2 years rather than in one year
as I said.

It is still too fast relatively to every other company who is producing
stable products however. You have about 5-10 times shorter development cycles (while probably you have much much fewer programmer resources
based on the sizes of these companies, which means you per-programmer
platform generation cycle is even shorter).

This means: many bugs and the customers (willingly for some, unwillingly for
others) do most of the debugging.
Old 26th December 2016
  #167
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imloggedin View Post
I don't know if my previous Nebula 3 instances were configured wrong but there is a quite noticeable improvement immediately on my stereo image and depth. I replaced at least 4 other Nebula 3 instances with noticeable improvement. I am not sure what you guys did but I like it! CPU usage as approximately the same for me.
No offense, but unless the developers themselves can back up why this is happening ... why there is an "improvement" on playback on Nebula 3 libraries in Nebula 4, then I have no reason to believe it. Indeed, what you think is "better" others may think is worse. And also, if libraries are sounding different, that may mean some libraries suffer.

I have AlexB's 5500 emulation and the real hardware 5500. The Nebula 3 version sounds almost identical to the hardware. I'm not sure how a Nebula 4 version would or could sound better than that. It just isn't possible. There is literally no room for improvement regarding this library.

I say this because I think we have to be careful that we don't have all Neb 3 users start chasing their tails and redoing their entire systems because a few guys claimed things "sound better" in version 4 especially when the developer isn't telling us scientifically why that would be.
Old 26th December 2016
  #168
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deff J View Post
the ser-file for rose is is named n4 if I remember correctly
Yes. That's it The ROSE ser file is called "N4" and is in the AU or VST folder as it normally would be. ROSE is now functional after I got an N4 auth for this ser file.

The ser file for Nebula 4 has the same name (N4) but is a different ser file in a different location. It is located in the Library/Audio/Presets/AcusitcaAudio/Nebula 4 folder.

Not naming the ROSE ser files as ROSE.ser is going to cause some confusion. Oh well. I've got it sorted now. Hopefully others can benefit.
Old 26th December 2016
  #169
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
No offense, but unless the developers themselves can back up why this is happening ... why there is an "improvement" on playback on Nebula 3 libraries in Nebula 4, then I have no reason to believe it. Indeed, what you think is "better" others may think is worse. And also, if libraries are sounding different, that may mean some libraries suffer.

I have AlexB's 5500 emulation and the real hardware 5500. The Nebula 3 version sounds almost identical to the hardware. I'm not sure how a Nebula 4 version would or could sound better than that. It just isn't possible. There is literally no room for improvement regarding this library.

I say this because I think we have to be careful that we don't have all Neb 3 users start chasing their tails and redoing their entire systems because a few guys claimed things "sound better" in version 4 especially when the developer isn't telling us scientifically why that would be.
problem was random on many users, it is related with bug fixing.
Basically we debugged buffers used for lookahead and offset. It was causing a lot of issues or interpolation errors, specific of several installations.
The engine is a player, and sometimes the player was simply faulty. Maybe you was simply lucky.
Old 26th December 2016
  #170
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
you are derailing the discussion.


Did you find something wrong in Nebula4? Something specific we can work on ? Something we could improve?

Most of your arguments are about "comunication", than you start speaking about "bugs", but my impression is that you didn't even try it.

I'm here for answering questions and checking if I can help in some way. If not, I would prefer to spend my time in a different way, today it is christmas.
Yes, please fix the following two issues for me:

1. multiple instance loading for nebula 3 pro libraries
so that I can use the neb 3 pro libraries that I have and are amazing.

2. an install that works. Read the comments on this thread
and in the acustica neb 4 threads. People cannot get the program
authorized and started even.

I am not going to download and install anything until I read that
all is working as it should. I have been burnt too many times.
Old 26th December 2016
  #171
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
problem was random on many users, it is related with bug fixing.
Basically we debugged buffers used for lookahead and offset. It was causing a lot of issues or interpolation errors, specific of several installations.
The engine is a player, and sometimes the player was simply faulty. Maybe you was simply lucky.
Which installations? Can you post a list please? That would be a helpful thing for all involved.
Old 26th December 2016
  #172
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imloggedin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
No offense, but unless the developers themselves can back up why this is happening ... why there is an "improvement" on playback on Nebula 3 libraries in Nebula 4, then I have no reason to believe it. Indeed, what you think is "better" others may think is worse. And also, if libraries are sounding different, that may mean some libraries suffer.

I have AlexB's 5500 emulation and the real hardware 5500. The Nebula 3 version sounds almost identical to the hardware. I'm not sure how a Nebula 4 version would or could sound better than that. It just isn't possible. There is literally no room for improvement regarding this library.

I say this because I think we have to be careful that we don't have all Neb 3 users start chasing their tails and redoing their entire systems because a few guys claimed things "sound better" in version 4 especially when the developer isn't telling us scientifically why that would be.
I specifically stated that my Nebula 3 settings could have been wrong; however, what I tested was mostly compressors. All I can tell you what AlexB 4kD group compressor especially sounded very different. I flipped back and forth between Nebula 3 and 4 with the exact same settings. Nebula 3 had a mid-range push I thought I liked compared to Slate FG-Grey but then Nebula 4 just kind of opened up and got a new clarity and grit neither of the previous compressors had. Honestly I don't care what happened - my whole master bus chain sounds significantly better. I have had my fair share of problems with Acustica, especially customer service and crashing - but I do believe something changed significantly this version.
Old 26th December 2016
  #173
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
How many channels did you sample in each console?
When you say a console you mean ONE channel right?
By your math, Brainworx has modeled the equivalent
of 72 of your consoles.

ALSO: when Brainworx models a channel they hand code it.
When you say you "model", you make a recording. Big difference in complexity of work
(I am not saying which is better, just which is more complex).



I stand corrected: you went 5 generations in ~2 years rather than in one year
as I said.

It is still too fast relatively to every other company who is producing
stable products however. You have about 5-10 times shorter development cycles (while probably you have much much fewer programmer resources
based on the sizes of these companies, which means you per-programmer
platform generation cycle is even shorter).

This means: many bugs and the customers (willingly for some, unwillingly for
others) do most of the debugging.
we have exactly 1 engine each 6 months. This is the rate. We could argue about it, but it is damn simple: march, october, april, september
Each engine is not written from the scratch. It is modular, so we can focus on a single element at once. For example when we write the zero latency engine, we affect a specific section of the engine, and debugging is very easy.
Probably we have a better approach than other companies, I don't know. Probably they mostly don't have an engine, but a framework. It is very different. A framework requires you write code in each product, an engine not.
For example if you use a game engine you can pretty write the whole engine with a very little coding, just the scripts. We create plugins mostly using a sort of script language, but the engine doesn't change. For what I know this approach is unique in the audio world. A framework requires a lot of attention, because basically you can introduce bugs at each cycle since you write natively code each time and you compile continuously.

This is the reason why released titanium and we were sure there were no significant bugs. Today our bugs are a consequence often of the scripting language, but as soon as we move everything to the scripting level and we use automatic tools we decrease our number of bugs quickly. An example? the compressor library of N4 was created in a single day, and there are no reported bugs.
Old 26th December 2016
  #174
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imloggedin View Post
I specifically stated that my Nebula 3 settings could have been wrong; however, what I tested was mostly compressors. All I can tell you what AlexB 4kD group compressor especially sounded very different. I flipped back and forth between Nebula 3 and 4 with the exact same settings. Nebula 3 had a mid-range push I thought I liked compared to Slate FG-Grey but then Nebula 4 just kind of opened up and got a new clarity and grit neither of the previous compressors had. Honestly I don't care what happened - my whole master bus chain sounds significantly better. I have had my fair share of problems with Acustica, especially customer service and crashing - but I do believe something changed significantly this version.
Right ... you may not care how or why it improved, but the rest of the user base will. Many of us have hundreds of custom Nebula setups in Nebula 3. If there is a mystical sound improvement ghost ... people will chase it, which will take considerable time and effort for us. We need actual demonstrable reasons why we should upgrade. Anecdotal stories aren't enough.
Old 26th December 2016
  #175
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imloggedin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
Right ... you may not care how or why it improved, but the rest of the user base will. Many of us have hundreds of custom Nebula setups in Nebula 3. If there is a mystical sound improvement ghost ... people will chase it, which will take considerable time and effort for us. We need actual demonstrable reasons why we should upgrade. Anecdotal stories aren't enough.
This is my formal statement to all Nebula 3 users not to chase mythical sound improvement ghosts.

This thread is really going to ****. Jesus people, just try it if your interested or don't if you're already satisfied. You don't have to replace your 3 installation at all.
Old 26th December 2016
  #176
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imloggedin View Post
This is my formal statement to all Nebula 3 users not to chase mythical sound improvement ghosts.

This thread is really going to ****. Jesus people, just try it if your interested or don't if you're already satisfied. You don't have to replace your 3 installation at all.
I don't think asking for verifiable proof that a new version of a plugin "sounds better" is the thread going to sh**t. If anything, it's trying to prevent a thread from doing that.
Old 26th December 2016
  #177
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
I don't think asking for verifiable proof that a new version of a plugin "sounds better" is the thread going to sh**t. If anything, it's trying to prevent a thread from doing that.
it was stated from several users and even several betatesters, but I have no evidence of it on past emulations.
The only way would be loading an emulation using the past engine and verify the thousands of parameters.

We can ensure the new library is better, tons better, and we are sure about it.
We can also say the engine was debugged, and it could play with less aliasing, because it was a consequence of bugs. An other improvement is a consequence of dynamic rate conversion: basically several libraries were working at a wrong sample rate before, or rendered at a wrong sample rate. Also control rate (program rate) sometimes was buggy. This was causing aliasing, so basically the filter response is the same but the sound is less detailed

Nebula3 is 1.3.903
Nebula3 server is 1.4.009
Nebula4 is 1.3.139

It means it is 200 versions ahead nebula3 pro, and 100 nebula3 server.
Please consider that 95% of our versions are also betatested and each one delivers new features and new bugfixes, they are many ones.
Old 26th December 2016
  #178
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ROCKER STUDIOS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
Yes. That's it The ROSE ser file is called "N4" and is in the AU or VST folder as it normally would be. ROSE is now functional after I got an N4 auth for this ser file.

The ser file for Nebula 4 has the same name (N4) but is a different ser file in a different location. It is located in the Library/Audio/Presets/AcusitcaAudio/Nebula 4 folder.

Not naming the ROSE ser files as ROSE.ser is going to cause some confusion. Oh well. I've got it sorted now. Hopefully others can benefit.
thanks for that I needed that info
Old 26th December 2016
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
yes at that time we didn't think to offer a discount also for nebula3 pro customers. It was an year ago, most of users bought it during black friday and it was really a cheap move (50 eur)
.
There was a thing we didn't forecast correctly: a further delay for nebula. When we realized our compressor tech could be improved we decided to wait this release further, and I think it was worth. Today we are delivering a product with a serious added value. Before nebula was good with preamps and equalizers, today we can finally say nebula is good with compression.

Said that: if you think the price you are paying is not fair just contact support, they will try to help you. I don't want unhappy customers. Normally we listen all stories from customers and we try to understand the best move to do.



About what nebula4 can do (and nebula3 cannot do):

- nebula4 relies on a multi-instance version of nebula3. This version is named "universal acqua", because it can work both as nebula3 and as acqua plugin. It is completely a new architecture, used in our acqua plugins. It features a massive multithreading among internal instances and several optimizations (for example a faster loading time). For a single instance (so old nebula libraries) the improvement is very small, but the improvement could be dramatic for the new library format. Acqua plugins are an example: they are the new library format. When you load a 7 bands equalizer is weights like a single band one, or a double band one in the worst case. This is a dramatic improvement. People report they can load 80-90 lime equ88, and they are equalizers which would require 5 nebula instances each one, so they would be 450 nebula equalizers (seriously not possible today even in the faster computer possible).

- nebula4 plugin is a sort of wrapper, it is the rack loading those universal acqua plugins. It is based on juce, while universal acqua plugins are based on vstgui4. The wrapper allows new things, like the browser. Soon we'll add a lot of other pages, like the mast/settings page. The new browser alone improves the workflow speed a lot. You can search presets for example. Other thing, you have finally a custom skin for each different program. It seems a little thing, but just try nebula4free+trial library. It is not exactly like using nebula3. You see controls, it is way more user-friendly

- the updated version of the "Universal acqua" engine allows new optimizations: for example compressors apparently are using the same cpu load, but they are pushed at crazy program rate speeds now (till 40 microseconds). Nebula3 server allows that, but at an incredible cost of cpu load (at least 4 times greater). Libraries based on this new approach are really light on cpu (if you don't believe it, just load a new compressor and adjust the rate to 0.7 milliseconds which is anyway better than what we did for old nebula3 libraries. It will be very light). Among other things, it supports dynamic rate conversion (it means sample rate is adjusted at runtime, when your sequencer changes it).


A false myth: the new engine is not slower than the previous one, it is faster, and for what users and betatesters are saying around, it sounds better.
Hi Giancarlo, well answered. Thank you very much. Liked it. I will contact support and see that we will find an agreement. Sure it will happen. And I am quite secure that the new engine will bring us good more sooner then later. Your tools are on top of what is possible at the end.
And, whoooo, what a storm you have to survive here. This is quite amazing... Admire your dedication. Cheers and have a good holiday time again and a very successful and happy and - foremost - peaceful new year 2017,

Geret
Old 26th December 2016
  #180
Lives for gear
Wow, I just tried the new Nebula YROY compressor. The YROY VARICOMP is a wonderful vocal compressor. ROSE is also quite good. I'm going to investigate all the different models of YROY because this first vocal attempt was really good.

N4 loads quicker and the comps have a nice aqua-like user interface. I haven't tried the reverbs or preamps in the new library yet.

Really, I don't see what all the hullabaloo is about. N4 is the next generation of Nebula and you get two very nice compressors in the bargain.
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