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N4 (Nebula4) is finally out! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 25th December 2016
  #121
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by profvonsok View Post
Even if one buys into this logic there are additional "costs" of these products simply not finished or in some cases, even near finished. The grief caused by this makes your products more than I want to pay.
We never deny it
There are drawbacks.
Anyway if you want to access the presale price, you cannot complain the product is not perfect.
If you are not sure wait we exit the presale and we reach the full price. We provide full working trial demos. You can decide if the product is good enough.
Old 25th December 2016
  #122
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
If you are interested in old preamps you have a full working version since day 1
Yes you miss the strip... Which was delivered within the presale period, yesterday on Windows
i installed and tested the strip two days ago and it was broken.

now you are saying you fixed it. I guess i am late in my debugging for your
company. My apologies.

PS. I will not test the new version. It s a waste of time. I will wait until
other customers confirm that everything is working. That will save me some
frustration and time.
Old 25th December 2016
  #123
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
i installed and tested the strip two days ago and it was broken.

now you are saying you fixed it. I guess i am late in my debugging for your
company. My apologies.

PS. I will not test the new version. It s a waste of time. I will wait until
other customers confirm that everything is working. That will save me some
frustration and time.
Yes but presale is not completed
You pay for this! If you want to buy a product when you are sure it is working
- Wait presale ends
- Test the trial version
- If it is good buy it

Today in presale you have a discount and it covers
- The fact not all internal products are ready - strip was not ready
- The fact intermediate releases are not perfect
- Possibly it covers the fact final product doesn't fulfill expectations

I want to be clear on the roadmap who leaded to this situation
- People asked for preorder with no product and just a cheaper price
- Someone asked for a trial version
- Later on someone asked for a commercial version because he wanted a product asap even if not finished
- Now you are asking the full product immediately

I'll tell you what we'll do: we'll remove the presale and we'll use only full prices!

Ie sand today is 200 eur. Maybe it is ok. Maybe not. Try it, if you like it buy it. But several users bought it at 89 eur (they had also personal discounts)
Old 25th December 2016
  #124
Gear Maniac
 

seem like some of you guy´s have nothing better to do on christmas than wining around
feel free to use your algos
Old 25th December 2016
  #125
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post

I'll tell you what we'll do: we'll remove the presale and we'll use only full prices!
Too bad you can't guarantee a fully working product otherwise you probably could.

To add I bet some would rather pay more for a solid working product instead of wounded software continually in development.
Old 25th December 2016
  #126
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
seem like some of you guy´s have nothing better to do on christmas than wining around
feel free to use your algos
And you have nothing better to do than to comment on it.
WFC
Old 25th December 2016
  #127
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Tell me what we should improve and we'll do.
Sure, you can start with the following:

1. DO NOT RELEASE SOFTWARE WITH 10,000 BUGS !!!! Design and implement
a strong quality control program. Seek external help if such expertise is not
found in your company as most certainly is not.

Also:

2. re enable the re selling of acustica software which you blocked 18 months ago

3. Put multi instance loading capability in N4 ASAP

4. BEG the nebula third party developers to work on N4 rather than blocking
them with unreasonable traning and royalty demands

5. Hire customer support who are professional and are fluent in english. Staff
customer supportto ensure a reasonable max response time.

6. Hire a customer service consultant who understands customer satisfaction
and follow her advice to make your organization customer satisfaction oriented.
This includes the totality of customer experience including web site, manuals,
prodct features and performance, bugs, copy protection, and support.

7. Drop the reality distortion/apologetics field 3 notches down. Get some PR
management advice from people who you trust and are really good at it.
Old 25th December 2016
  #128
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
We are doing it.
Did you realize we released titanium update and there was no a single reported issue?
For a product like lime, composed by 4 different products and as presale I think the situation is fair.
The only thing which happened is an update during the presale with a problem. I think it is perfectly fair and balanced, final product is even better and bigger than the one you bought.
Old 25th December 2016
  #129
Gear Maniac
 

Yeah, they should probably call it a beta sale. And if you participate in the beta sale, you get a nice discount. I think this would save suffering on Acustica's side and the customer side. This would especially be true for new customers who aren't used to the usual course of events regarding Acustica product releases.

I am experienced enough working with Acustica products to not have high expectations of early releases. For example I own Titanium, but I am not going to install Titanium Two for at least 2 or 3 more weeks. I own Lime, but I am not going to download new Lime release for a few more weeks either. At this point, it's just called common sense, guys.

Yes, there are people on the Acustica forum who proudly say "downloading now!" the moment Acustica announces anything. But you don't have to follow their lead or feel pressured by them. Think about it.

In general, an upgrade price doesn't have a short time limit. Most software I own has an unlimited duration upgrade price. So again, Acustica should call it a beta price and not an upgrade price, in my opinion. Calling it an upgrade price that expires when the product still has bugs is kind of silly.
Old 25th December 2016
  #130
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We are doing it.
Did you realize we released titanium update and there was no a single reported issue?
Wow.
Old 25th December 2016
  #131
Lives for gear
 
JulenJVM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by telluride View Post
Too bad you can't guarantee a fully working product otherwise you probably could.

To add I bet some would rather pay more for a solid working product instead of wounded software continually in development.
That's just what he said, you're repeating his words. If you want the full product, wait for presale period to end. You pay more for a finished product. Is that not what you want? Man, if you want to troll, do it properly.
Old 25th December 2016
  #132
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We are doing it.
Ahh, no you are not. Count to 10 then read again the list.
Repeat until enlightenment is reached.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We are doing it.
Did you realize we released titanium update and there was no a single reported issue?
I am amazed. How this helps my products that do not work and the
new ones that do not work, and all the time I have lost crashing
my setup with your bug-ware?
Old 25th December 2016
  #133
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
That's just what he said, you're repeating his words. If you want the full product, wait for presale period to end. You pay more for a finished product. Is that not what you want? Man, if you want to troll, do it properly.
Troll this

You don't have a clue
Old 25th December 2016
  #134
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
Yeah, they should probably call it a beta sale. And if you participate in the beta sale, you get a nice discount. I think this would save suffering on Acustica's side and the customer side. This would especially be true for new customers who aren't used to the usual course of events regarding Acustica product releases.

.
excellent point BUT there is acustica software that has never been properly debugged long after release. Including neb 3 and at least half of the acquas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
Calling it an upgrade price that expires when the product still has bugs is kind of silly.
Absolutely so.
Old 25th December 2016
  #135
Lives for gear
 
JulenJVM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by telluride View Post
Troll this

You don't have a clue
Actually I do. Some wise words from my grandma:

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Grandma View Post
El que no jode de noche, jode de día.
Old 25th December 2016
  #136
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
seem like some of you guy´s have nothing better to do on christmas than wining around
feel free to use your algos
and you feel free to enjoy your bugs and computer crashes.

And I trust you will not post further since you have better things to do in christmas.
Old 25th December 2016
  #137
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Most of users are buying it as a 100 EUR upgrade
Other ones 130. People who never bought nebula 167. There are dozens of compressor emulations, a new acqua compressor, a skinned library, a new architecture based on a multi instance engine.
Seriously even for the highest price, 167 you have more compressors than what you'll ever use
Other companies are charging recently 130 for a SINGLE compressor emulation, the cheapest ones are around 30. This product is cheaper than subscriptions and it is your product forever. We released nebula3 in 2007 and we have been upgrading it for 10 years. 30000 emulations for the platform, many of them accessible at very low rates or free.
Seriously do you think we are expensive with nebula?
Hi Giancarlo, Merry Christmast!

I do not want to complain, but :-). I upgraded to Server Pro from Neb3 Pro edition a while ago for EUR 100 because it said at that time that this will be the only way to upgrade later to Neb4 for a reduced price. So I did spend a 100 bucks just for this (no other benefit of Server version for most of us actually). Now I can upgrade to Neb4 for 100 EUR. All in all I did spend 200 EUR to go from Neb3 pro to Neb4. If I hadn't upgraded I only would have spend 130 or 167. That doesn't seem like a good business. Next time I will definitely not believe in any news on future upgrade paths to new products etc. It is cheaper to hold on and wait. What do you think?

I am not sure if I should upgrade now to Neb4? I have some questions: a) is it true that cpu usage is higher in neb4 then in neb3 (because my system, a new mac pro, is fighting with neb in bigger projects already quite a lot). b) Can I use neb 3 and neb 4 in parallel on the same system so that I can choose which neb version I want to use? c) Can you please tell me in two or three points the benefits of neb4 (individual skins etc. I do have with nebula setup anyhow)? What will I get? d) Will I be able to use different libraries in one neb4 instance soon (because I understood it is not possible now)?
Thanks for your support and have some nice holidays,
Geret
Old 25th December 2016
  #138
Lives for gear
 
ROCKER STUDIOS's Avatar
So I'm confused looking on my dashboard once again I've never used nebula products before I see one download nebula setup May 18th 2016 and another download nebula man February 10th 2014 I'm running osx do I need to wait for newer files or what trying to download N4
Old 25th December 2016
  #139
OMU
Lives for gear
 
OMU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Nebula has tons of free stuff
What you deny is the fact kontakt is a rompler, it is based on a tech which has been available since 80s. It is not alone. Ik is selling a rompler. Steinberg. All companies have a rompler in their catalogue. Even uvi engine is a rompler.
Hahaha. You are incredibly stubborn on missing a point. I'll just give up and wish you a nice Christmas and a better organized new year!
Old 25th December 2016
  #140
OMU
Lives for gear
 
OMU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
You pay for this! If you want to buy a product when you are sure it is working
- Wait presale ends
- Test the trial version
- If it is good buy it

Today in presale you have a discount and it covers
- The fact not all internal products are ready - strip was not ready
- The fact intermediate releases are not perfect
- Possibly it covers the fact final product doesn't fulfill expectations

I want to be clear on the roadmap who leaded to this situation
- People asked for preorder with no product and just a cheaper price
- Someone asked for a trial version
- Later on someone asked for a commercial version because he wanted a product asap even if not finished
- Now you are asking the full product immediately
Write this on every pre-sale when you do it

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
I'll tell you what we'll do: we'll remove the presale and we'll use only full prices!
You are aware that if you do that you'll have to deliver. I have absolutely no problems with that, but I am skeptical about Acustica's ability to deliver a proper working product from day one. It doesn't fit with this tendency to overcomplicate things that I see there.
Old 25th December 2016
  #141
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
and you feel free to enjoy your bugs and computer crashes.

And I trust you will not post further since you have better things to do in christmas.

the point is that many users don't experience it.
When you read a complain on a public forum you are just watching the top of the iceberg. Mainly all people with issues will post on forums, and all people without issues will not post. A single complain means we have probably 10 tickets and 200 happy customers. This is what is happening in our statistics.

Now. Our products are not perfect
We cannot deny there is an huge improvement. Reason why you see many several complains is because we released 5 products in less than 3 months
And here the situation

- sand had 2 issues and we solved them. There were 2 issues (a crash on mac osx side and an installer which was not compatible with the very first release)

- lime had a single issue. Basically the update we did a week ago. It was solved yesterday for windows users and it will be solved for mac osx users before the end of the year and presale

- coral had 2 issues. One was caused by an installer deleting the vector folder and one is still on investigation (full strip plugin, right channel)

- titanium had 0 issues apparently

- nebula had 1 single issue on trial library which was not working in nebula free (and was solved in less than a day). Apparently several users reported issues in external libraries, it is possible the issue is on the library side (created by external developers). In any case the main product is working, we are speaking about conflicts caused by 3rd party libraries


so if you sum all things it seems like we had a lot of issues, but we are speaking about 5 products!

Situation is different if you analyze products after the presale. Most of them are working correctly and they are stable for most of users. Again: perfection is not possible. I see all other companies have issues reported on this forum. All.
Old 25th December 2016
  #142
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
Write this on every pre-sale when you do it



You are aware that if you do that you'll have to deliver. I have absolutely no problems with that, but I am skeptical about Acustica's ability to deliver a proper working product from day one. It doesn't fit with this tendency to overcomplicate things that I see there.

I'll tell you again what our presale is

- users asked for a better price BEFORE the product was completed
- users then asked for a trial version in order to understand if the better price was worth
- users then asked for a temporary commercial version because they hated the wait.
- users then asked for possible final version for a part of the product (for example standalone plugins) and waiting for other components

as you can see we are approaching what you are asking for but it is NOT what we want to do. Our presale is NOT a finished product, it is a presale.
It means you do NOT have the final product and you have a DISCOUNT



Said that, this is the topic about Nebula4. So what issues are you experiencing? because I see you are completely OT.
Old 25th December 2016
  #143
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post


so if you sum all things it seems like we had a lot of issues, but we are speaking about 5 products!

.
I cannot convince anyone about my subjective experience.
But what is objective is that even a cursory read of the acustica forum and of course GS will show that users cannot even install, for example, N4 without problems. And posted compatibility issues, crashes and various bugs of acquas across daws and OSs
are in the hundreds not "a few".

Which by your exact logic of many bugs existing for every few reported,
must mean there are thousands of problems
not publicly reported.

One more thing: do you see any other plugin company having any where
near the same number of complaints about bugs and crashes or customers scratching their heads abput how to make the products work?

Acustica is presently the champion of buggy, crash-prone
and perpetually unfinished software in the audio plugin domain.

If you like it like this fine. If some customers like it also fine. But
do not try to convince the whole world that all is peachy because it ain't.
Old 25th December 2016
  #144
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimos Guitar View Post
Hi Giancarlo, Merry Christmast!

I do not want to complain, but :-). I upgraded to Server Pro from Neb3 Pro edition a while ago for EUR 100 because it said at that time that this will be the only way to upgrade later to Neb4 for a reduced price. So I did spend a 100 bucks just for this (no other benefit of Server version for most of us actually). Now I can upgrade to Neb4 for 100 EUR. All in all I did spend 200 EUR to go from Neb3 pro to Neb4. If I hadn't upgraded I only would have spend 130 or 167. That doesn't seem like a good business. Next time I will definitely not believe in any news on future upgrade paths to new products etc. It is cheaper to hold on and wait. What do you think?

I am not sure if I should upgrade now to Neb4? I have some questions: a) is it true that cpu usage is higher in neb4 then in neb3 (because my system, a new mac pro, is fighting with neb in bigger projects already quite a lot). b) Can I use neb 3 and neb 4 in parallel on the same system so that I can choose which neb version I want to use? c) Can you please tell me in two or three points the benefits of neb4 (individual skins etc. I do have with nebula setup anyhow)? What will I get? d) Will I be able to use different libraries in one neb4 instance soon (because I understood it is not possible now)?
Thanks for your support and have some nice holidays,
Geret

yes at that time we didn't think to offer a discount also for nebula3 pro customers. It was an year ago, most of users bought it during black friday and it was really a cheap move (50 eur)
.
There was a thing we didn't forecast correctly: a further delay for nebula. When we realized our compressor tech could be improved we decided to wait this release further, and I think it was worth. Today we are delivering a product with a serious added value. Before nebula was good with preamps and equalizers, today we can finally say nebula is good with compression.

Said that: if you think the price you are paying is not fair just contact support, they will try to help you. I don't want unhappy customers. Normally we listen all stories from customers and we try to understand the best move to do.



About what nebula4 can do (and nebula3 cannot do):

- nebula4 relies on a multi-instance version of nebula3. This version is named "universal acqua", because it can work both as nebula3 and as acqua plugin. It is completely a new architecture, used in our acqua plugins. It features a massive multithreading among internal instances and several optimizations (for example a faster loading time). For a single instance (so old nebula libraries) the improvement is very small, but the improvement could be dramatic for the new library format. Acqua plugins are an example: they are the new library format. When you load a 7 bands equalizer is weights like a single band one, or a double band one in the worst case. This is a dramatic improvement. People report they can load 80-90 lime equ88, and they are equalizers which would require 5 nebula instances each one, so they would be 450 nebula equalizers (seriously not possible today even in the faster computer possible).

- nebula4 plugin is a sort of wrapper, it is the rack loading those universal acqua plugins. It is based on juce, while universal acqua plugins are based on vstgui4. The wrapper allows new things, like the browser. Soon we'll add a lot of other pages, like the mast/settings page. The new browser alone improves the workflow speed a lot. You can search presets for example. Other thing, you have finally a custom skin for each different program. It seems a little thing, but just try nebula4free+trial library. It is not exactly like using nebula3. You see controls, it is way more user-friendly

- the updated version of the "Universal acqua" engine allows new optimizations: for example compressors apparently are using the same cpu load, but they are pushed at crazy program rate speeds now (till 40 microseconds). Nebula3 server allows that, but at an incredible cost of cpu load (at least 4 times greater). Libraries based on this new approach are really light on cpu (if you don't believe it, just load a new compressor and adjust the rate to 0.7 milliseconds which is anyway better than what we did for old nebula3 libraries. It will be very light). Among other things, it supports dynamic rate conversion (it means sample rate is adjusted at runtime, when your sequencer changes it).


A false myth: the new engine is not slower than the previous one, it is faster, and for what users and betatesters are saying around, it sounds better.
Old 25th December 2016
  #145
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by consnyc View Post
I cannot convince anyone about my subjective experience.
But what is objective is that even a cursory read of the acustica forum and of course GS will show that users cannot even install, for example, N4 without problems. And posted compatibility issues, crashes and various bugs of acquas across daws and OSs
are in the hundreds not "a few".

Which by your exact logic of many bugs existing for every few reported,
must mean there are thousands of problems
not publicly reported.

One more thing: do you see any other plugin company having any where
near the same number of complaints about bugs and crashes or customers scratching their heads abput how to make the products work?

Acustica is presently the champion of buggy, crash-prone
and perpetually unfinished software in the audio plugin domain.

If you like it like this fine. If some customers like it also fine. But
do not try to convince the whole world that all is peachy because it ain't.
this is not true. Open whatever topic here on gs and you'll find ALL companies have bugs. Our plugins are based on gigabytes of data, so they are more error prone. When you push your computer to its knees you start watching issues: crashes, stability, or strange behaviour.
This is the cost you pay for the sound.
For us the sound is everything.
Said that, the number of issues decreased dramatically and the number of features increased dramatically.
It is true that several other companies have less issues, but are they delivering a product as much complex as sand or lime or coral?
Who is doing it today?

Let's speak about lime. They are 4 compressors, 2 whole consoles, and 20 preamps. It was delivered as 4 different plugins. If features all possible routing combinations (no other software channel strip has so many options), and even external sidechain. This product had during presale a single issue with an installer.
The user manual is beautiful and better than all user manuals from competition. Sound is one of best or the best one ever, this is what customers are writing on gs.

Do your move.
Old 25th December 2016
  #146
Gear Addict
Titanium 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We are doing it.
Did you realize we released titanium update and there was no a single reported issue?
For a product like lime, composed by 4 different products and as presale I think the situation is fair.
The only thing which happened is an update during the presale with a problem. I think it is perfectly fair and balanced, final product is even better and bigger than the one you bought.
I've got a report to make on Titanium 2, after demoing it.

It's flippin brilliant!
Beautifully clear and musical. My No.1 compressor because of it's flexibility. Can't stop using it.
Thanks.
Old 25th December 2016
  #147
Gear Addict
Just for the record. There are many of us very happy with the way Acustica deals with their releases. Faults and all. If your not, Go away!
You'll change nothing by bitching on a forum that is for furthering the use and helping people mix in the box.
Old 25th December 2016
  #148
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Our plugins are based on gigabytes of data, so they are more error prone.
It is true that several other companies have less issues, but are they delivering a product as much complex as sand or lime or coral?
Who is doing it today?

Do your move.
This argument is absurd.
Coding complexity is NOT measured by
GBs of data that you are moving around.

According to your "logic", Google, Amazon and every other major
internet company (which operates on Petabyte to Exabyte scales)
should be crashing every 2 milliseconds.

By the way there are numerous audio plugins that are technically
more complex that Lime, Coral or Sand which you think are very complex.
I will mention a few:

- Omnisphere contains hundreds of algorithms (fx, filters), 100 times
more complicating routing and modulation than Lime and also dozens of GBs of more data.

- Brainworx channel: models 72 channels individually of a full console
and 150+ electronic components each with its own modeling.

- The uad platform: has a dedicated fpga hardware processor that works
seamlessly with PCs and Macs and all DAWs and with the apollo audio interfaces etc.

And may many more (Reaper, the NI platform, new generation
instruments like Falcon, Avenger, etc.etc.).

These products are rock solid and rarely have crashes or debilitating bugs.

How is this accomplished? For starters, these are platforms that
are developed on 5-10 year cycles. They do not have a new tech
redux every month.
You went from core 4 to core 9 in about a year. You do not have time to
debug your installers, let alone the codes running under the plugins.
Old 25th December 2016
  #149
Lives for gear
Rose does not seem to generate a .SER file when I launch it on Mac, either in AU or VST. I've never had any problems getting Acustica plug-ins to generate a .SER file and recently authorized LIME successfully. I've tried with two different hosts: Studio One and Reaper.
Old 25th December 2016
  #150
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTW View Post
Just for the record. There are many of us very happy with the way Acustica deals with their releases. Faults and all. If your not, Go away!
You'll change nothing by bitching on a forum that is for furthering the use and helping people mix in the box.
I have paid a lot of money on acustica products and i have lost countless
hours with its bugs, and therefore I have
every right to exercise my first amendment and my customer's rights
to criticism.

All the improvements that I have seen in acustica
were directly related to very public complaints and criticisms.

If you do not like my posts, feel free to not read them or to block me away.
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