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N4 (Nebula4) is finally out! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 2nd July 2017
  #811
Gear Maniac
 

Yeh it'd be great to get some official updated news on when N4 will have a working multi effect rack system, there was talk about it happening soon back in dec.2016, when n4 was a hot topic. Any news on the multi effect features for N4?
Old 2nd July 2017
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybland View Post
Yeh it'd be great to get some official updated news on when N4 will have a working multi effect rack system, there was talk about it happening soon back in dec.2016, when n4 was a hot topic. Any news on the multi effect features for N4?
I think what you will see instead are more Acquas and perhaps Acqua-like products released as N4 products. The idea that truly independent 3rd party Nebulas are going to just "load" into N4 in some type of full-strip way that is convenient for all (developers and users) is a lot more complicated than I think people realize. Thus the question is, will Acustica prioritize the development of this shared-revenue/high tech support feature?

I build a lot of custom Nebula EQ strips in Agent. I know how much research and manual effort goes into building just one full strip. I have been building them for about a year, and it took me that long to figure out all the glitches and to figure out a consistent layout method that works for me. To build a similar system that satisifies hundreds of users in form and function and to figure out potential bugs across all DAWs and OSs and Nebula libraries? Wow.

And if Acustica doesn't build a custom interface for these strips, people will say "oh sure it works but it doesn't look very nice." And if they do build an interface, people will say: "well, it's really just an Acqua."

Honestly, the current system is probably the best system. The vision we users have of a multi-load Nebula is not a shared vision. It looks one way in my head, another way in your head, and yet another way in Zaphod's head, and so on. We just all like to assume that we agree on what it looks like and how it will work. The chance that the multi-loader will arrive in a way that satisifies most ...? That is risky.
Old 2nd July 2017
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
I think what you will see instead are more Acquas and perhaps Acqua-like products released as N4 products. The idea that truly independent 3rd party Nebulas are going to just "load" into N4 in some type of full-strip way that is convenient for all (developers and users) is a lot more complicated than I think people realize. Thus the question is, will Acustica prioritize the development of this shared-revenue/high tech support feature?

I build a lot of custom Nebula EQ strips in Agent. I know how much research and manual effort goes into building just one full strip. I have been building them for about a year, and it took me that long to figure out all the glitches and to figure out a consistent layout method that works for me. To build a similar system that satisifies hundreds of users in form and function and to figure out potential bugs across all DAWs and OSs and Nebula libraries? Wow.

And if Acustica doesn't build a custom interface for these strips, people will say "oh sure it works but it doesn't look very nice." And if they do build an interface, people will say: "well, it's really just an Acqua."

Honestly, the current system is probably the best system. The vision we users have of a multi-load Nebula is not a shared vision. It looks one way in my head, another way in your head, and yet another way in Zaphod's head, and so on. We just all like to assume that we agree on what it looks like and how it will work. The chance that the multi-loader will arrive in a way that satisifies most ...? That is risky.

Yes and no..satisfying most end users..no ,figuring a way to basically do what Agent does but smoother and more efficient..Yes if anyone can do that it's the guys that created the tech...thing is the 3rd party libraries use an older tech than what's being used in N4 and Acqua,so the idea is rather than implement multi-racking catering to their older tech they want the 3rd party developers to get on board and develop libraries using the newer N4/Acqua format,which they'll have to sign a new agreement and royalty split or something to that nature.

Rose and Violet shows that you can have a multi program library loaded into one instance in N4.It's just using the latest Nebula format.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #814
Gear Maniac
 

Personally I'd just like to have an option to stack Alex b consoles,with Tim P compressors and EQS and AA stuff under one roof, save them as a multi preset. If this is an undo able thing,it should be said. I can build these in my daw as a multi preset,which I do already, but was under the impression that N4 would allow this in a more streamlined way. We all know that N4 is the future, are you saying that devs need to now create aquas for N4?
This is where there seems to be some confusion, are the N3 commercial libraries not possible to work under the promised N4 multi rack system?
Old 3rd July 2017
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybland View Post
Personally I'd just like to have an option to stack Alex b consoles,with Tim P compressors and EQS and AA stuff under one roof, save them as a multi preset. If this is an undo able thing,it should be said. I can build these in my daw as a multi preset,which I do already, but was under the impression that N4 would allow this in a more streamlined way. We all know that N4 is the future, are you saying that devs need to now create aquas for N4?
This is where there seems to be some confusion, are the N3 commercial libraries not possible to work under the promised N4 multi rack system?
Exactly..it's gonna be a new format so older libraries won't work with the multi racking also it's not gonna be this year,maybe next next seems to be the projected time frame.

There wasn't any clear information as to whether it would allow multi racking and a lot of the core users thought and even posted that it was gonna be in N4 but alas it was not.Same reason i bought N4.
Old 4th July 2017
  #816
Gear Maniac
 

I read what was said back in maybe Dec 2016 when I first started eyeing N4, and it was said something along the lines, of many months after February 2017, we would have a working multi rack system update. Either way it'd be nice to hear from the devs now, as we're many months past February 2017 at this point. As an N4 customer I dont use it as much as I use N3 server due to Nebula Setups app, just works better with custom libs. They should definitely give us an update at this point, as all I see are more aquas being released,which I hope N4 doesn't have to keep taking a backseat for those.
Old 4th July 2017
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybland View Post
I read what was said back in maybe Dec 2016 when I first started eyeing N4, and it was said something along the lines, of many months after February 2017, we would have a working multi rack system update. Either way it'd be nice to hear from the devs now, as we're many months past February 2017 at this point. As an N4 customer I dont use it as much as I use N3 server due to Nebula Setups app, just works better with custom libs. They should definitely give us an update at this point, as all I see are more aquas being released,which I hope N4 doesn't have to keep taking a backseat for those.
100%..but unfortunately it looks like Acqua land for awhile..and a lot of the users on the forums just love whatever's out..i just want them to refine N4 implement multi racking and improve cpu performance but..whatever ,AA will do what they please .
Old 4th July 2017
  #818
Gear Maniac
 

Amen!
Old 4th July 2017
  #819
Gear Nut
 

I had a similar mindset about the lack of loading multiple instances in N4, but then Giancarlo explained the situation and I see things a little clearer now.

It will come, thats for sure, it will still take some time though. But forget about combining stuff in your own strips and then think that they will be cpu "light" like acquas. That is only possible if nebula libraries are created with all those new optimizations developed during the last years in the acqua creations. And I think thats the major plan. To get 3rd party dev on board so that the end user will see more and more proper N4 libs...

I want to build my own strips too, "natively" in N4 without agent or something. It will come, Im sure, but it wont be light on the cpu like acquas
Old 5th July 2017
  #820
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lubomba View Post
I had a similar mindset about the lack of loading multiple instances in N4, but then Giancarlo explained the situation and I see things a little clearer now.

It will come, thats for sure, it will still take some time though. But forget about combining stuff in your own strips and then think that they will be cpu "light" like acquas. That is only possible if nebula libraries are created with all those new optimizations developed during the last years in the acqua creations. And I think thats the major plan. To get 3rd party dev on board so that the end user will see more and more proper N4 libs...

I want to build my own strips too, "natively" in N4 without agent or something. It will come, Im sure, but it wont be light on the cpu like acquas
Agent builds can be light on CPU. Loading an entire Sand strip for example is not that light. It really depends on how you build your agent strip and how you set your neb xmls.

Also doing an Agent build forces you to learn about the original hardware and match the configuration. There is a lot of value to that. And dont forget how smooth nebs sound.
Old 5th July 2017
  #821
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Speaking of "Agent", just got an email from michael angel of CDS soundmaster stating he teamed up with agent to develop some plugins that he's been working on for years analog modelling ,it's up on Nyrv Audio,supposed to be cpu light and great sounding ,gonna try the demo now.
Old 5th July 2017
  #822
Gear Maniac
 

Nice keep us posted, ive yet to try nyrv. Interested
Old 10th July 2017
  #823
Gear Addict
 

ah, thank you for the heads-up. i find those screenshots with a rack-like structure rather misleading, almost proceeded to purchase N4 as that would have been the selling point for me (N3 still finds its way to most of my projects but it sure would be nicer to have a more UX friendly way of inserting effects).
Old 10th July 2017
  #824
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reggiejaxx's Avatar
 

Yep i hear ya...heaven forbid proper clear information on these products being made public.
Old 14th July 2017
  #825
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Cali.bre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapmastering View Post
ah, thank you for the heads-up. i find those screenshots with a rack-like structure rather misleading, almost proceeded to purchase N4 as that would have been the selling point for me (N3 still finds its way to most of my projects but it sure would be nicer to have a more UX friendly way of inserting effects).

We're definitely not alone in gathering this impression based on the information provided prior to N4s release.
But to hear G tell it, this was never the case and we should have trawled through the masses of posts on the AA forum to find his more accurate plan for this function.
Old 14th July 2017
  #826
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100%...Spin doctors.

We're still pretty much using N3.

Acquas are essentially N4 racked.
Old 14th July 2017
  #827
And this is the issue as the actual reason most people bought N4 was for the promise of the multirack use of the many libraries gathered by us nebula users over the years. That's being realistic about the actual pictures used as that's how all developers showcase their products when it's a functionality update along with other things under the hood. It's disheartening when we're told as as community "we never said that" or "we never said it would be ready to do that on launch" which in American translates to cop out. If you wanted to delay the major feature that we've all been hoping/talking/wishing for then that should have been said in BIG BOLD LETTERS UNDER THE PICTURE WITH MULTIPLE UNITS IN THE RACK!

Where was the common sense thinking behind the marketing?!?!
Yea, I know what has been said Now and what the reasons are/were for that but couldn't that have been said when everyone was running around saying "there's a rack setup coming to Nebula"?!?! A simple no would have been good enough while still touting all the upgrades and even the ability to use newer acquas that will be developed. This would have shown the BIG difference between N4 and 3 as a true product upgrade.
I use N4 all day everyday as its more cpu efficient and sounds better to me but it's still salty about the non-rack thing as it WAS the main selling point that happened to not happen...ijs
Old 14th July 2017
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illsoulprod View Post
And this is the issue as the actual reason most people bought N4 was for the promise of the multirack use of the many libraries gathered by us nebula users over the years. That's being realistic about the actual pictures used as that's how all developers showcase their products when it's a functionality update along with other things under the hood. It's disheartening when we're told as as community "we never said that" or "we never said it would be ready to do that on launch" which in American translates to cop out. If you wanted to delay the major feature that we've all been hoping/talking/wishing for then that should have been said in BIG BOLD LETTERS UNDER THE PICTURE WITH MULTIPLE UNITS IN THE RACK!

Where was the common sense thinking behind the marketing?!?!
Yea, I know what has been said Now and what the reasons are/were for that but couldn't that have been said when everyone was running around saying "there's a rack setup coming to Nebula"?!?! A simple no would have been good enough while still touting all the upgrades and even the ability to use newer acquas that will be developed. This would have shown the BIG difference between N4 and 3 as a true product upgrade.
I use N4 all day everyday as its more cpu efficient and sounds better to me but it's still salty about the non-rack thing as it WAS the main selling point that happened to not happen...ijs

I use it a lot too, but the workflow is even a step back from N3, no setups which we shouldn't have to now wait for..regardless of what they say now most everyone was led to believe that multi racking was coming..i even noticed some people have gone back and edited their post because they had stated that N4 was gonna be multi racking. Then we got the spin crap about it was never stated.

I'm just pissed when they try to justify the BS and make it seem like the customer is at fault.
Old 14th July 2017
  #829
Yup! I watched the BS too!
Old 14th July 2017
  #830
OMU
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First it was like: Nebula 4 will have multi rack capabilities.

Hurray!!!

Then it was like : N4 won't have this feature from the first release, it will be added later.

Hm... ok...

And now it's something like: we never said it will have multi rack, it's up to devs, it's a lot more complicated than you imagine.

Old 14th July 2017
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
First it was like: Nebula 4 will have multi rack capabilities.

Hurray!!!

Then it was like : N4 won't have this feature from the first release, it will be added later.

Hm... ok...

And now it's something like: we never said it will have multi rack, it's up to devs, it's a lot more complicated than you imagine.

This is exactly how I remember things playing out as well. I love what Acustica is doing, but they must be making a lot more money with Acqua than they ever did with Nebula and perhaps this has clouded their memory on the subject...

I honestly am rarely using N4 since I have N3 very well organized with Nebula Setups, my own custom dictionary and my own custom tagging using Nat3. Switching to N4 would require some serious dictionary overhaul and along with it I would lose my well organized setups and I generally find the new browser to be slower in use compared to N3 (although I thought there was a way to use the original way of browsing).

I'm hopeful that N4 can become something useful besides some unpolished (but nice) freebies given by Acustica during their sampling workshops. The fact that TimP, AlexB and Cupwise seem to not be indicating moving on to N4 is still a major bummer to me since I still find their general tone/sampling process superior to Acustica's (I can only imagine what they could do with NAT4).

Trying to be patient and hopeful.
Old 15th July 2017
  #832
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Yep I hear ya and totally agree. No top Devs are deal breakers.
Old 15th July 2017
  #833
Gear Maniac
 

I'm glad end users are finally confronting this issue. I was convinced into buying N4 with the promise of this Multi rack system. There was supposedly going to be a commitment to N4 updates this year with these new features, coming and I quote "months later".

Now it's up to 3rd party dev's to re-code their plugins for us to be able to use them in a multi rack fashion?? Tell me the 3rd party dev's on board?? Wait, well if thats the case, why can't we use AA plugins in this Multi rack system, eg: my choice of AA COMP,EQ,VERB etc.. ?

Please AA do what you said you'd do,and on the timeline you said you would, or else I personally refuse to support anything beyond, what I see period! Just like that,now if every AA customer, did the same thing, maybe they'd pay attention to us! I'm new to nebula, but I'd be even more pissed, if I had waited years for N4, to see it released and then what appears to be forgotten about so fast. Meanwhile there's a new Acqua out every few months?
Old 15th July 2017
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybland View Post
I'm glad end users are finally confronting this issue. I was convinced into buying N4 with the promise of this Multi rack system. There was supposedly going to be a commitment to N4 updates this year with these new features, coming and I quote "months later".

Now it's up to 3rd party dev's to re-code their plugins for us to be able to use them in a multi rack fashion?? Tell me the 3rd party dev's on board?? Wait, well if thats the case, why can't we use AA plugins in this Multi rack system, eg: my choice of AA COMP,EQ,VERB etc.. ?

Please AA do what you said you'd do,and on the timeline you said you would, or else I personally refuse to support anything beyond, what I see period! Just like that,now if every AA customer, did the same thing, maybe they'd pay attention to us! I'm new to nebula, but I'd be even more pissed, if I had waited years for N4, to see it released and then what appears to be forgotten about so fast. Meanwhile there's a new Acqua out every few months?
Well it's one of the factors holding everything up ..the fact that there are a lot of users who would rather blindly praise and make excuses for the company's short comings.
This is to be expected since we're essentially dealing with gear junkies,who'd rather see and then rave about the latest new AA release every month,than address the issues that are currently there.
Old 15th July 2017
  #835
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Cali.bre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggiejaxx View Post
I use it a lot too, but the workflow is even a step back from N3, no setups which we shouldn't have to now wait for..regardless of what they say now most everyone was led to believe that multi racking was coming..i even noticed some people have gone back and edited their post because they had stated that N4 was gonna be multi racking. Then we got the spin crap about it was never stated.

I'm just pissed when they try to justify the BS and make it seem like the customer is at fault.

I noted that too.
I had my doubts in pre release when AA were decidedly cagey and defensive about saying which of the N3 third party developers were on board for N4 (now we see AlexB recommending we use N3 instead of "buggy N4" and TimP very quiet on discussions of N4 and it's pretty clear they aren't getting involved) but I went ahead and purchased N4 after reading that multi libraries would be operation in Feb 2016.
Then came the spin. G stated he didn't care if people brought N4 or not and that multi loading 3rd party libraries could affect the AA business model ... clearly Aquas are the more profitable venture. That's fair enough, I just wish AA were more transparent to begin with, instead of insulting our intelligence with the spin and use of semantics in the definition of "multi load" and "multi rack" etc. when asked why they were reneging on an advertised deliverable. That makes this feel like a swindle with zero accountability...bad enough we're already paying money to be beta testers.
Old 15th July 2017
  #836
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Cali.bre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybland View Post
I'm glad end users are finally confronting this issue. I was convinced into buying N4 with the promise of this Multi rack system. There was supposedly going to be a commitment to N4 updates this year with these new features, coming and I quote "months later".

Now it's up to 3rd party dev's to re-code their plugins for us to be able to use them in a multi rack fashion?? Tell me the 3rd party dev's on board?? Wait, well if thats the case, why can't we use AA plugins in this Multi rack system, eg: my choice of AA COMP,EQ,VERB etc.. ?

Please AA do what you said you'd do,and on the timeline you said you would, or else I personally refuse to support anything beyond, what I see period! Just like that,now if every AA customer, did the same thing, maybe they'd pay attention to us! I'm new to nebula, but I'd be even more pissed, if I had waited years for N4, to see it released and then what appears to be forgotten about so fast. Meanwhile there's a new Acqua out every few months?

Right. I think the blind praise and cultish fanboyism definitely contributes to this problem. Instead of holding the developer accountable and demanding higher standards we have users blaming other users for AA bugs and suggesting they change their entire DAW/OS just to use AA products.

I'm really starting to think AA have targeted hobbyists and old studio vets who are no longer active in the game. Users who aren't working on critical, commercial projects and have time to nurse maid these great sounding but finicky plugins and money to spend trying to achieve the sound of famed vintage hardware that many have never used/had access to and most music listeners don't give a rat's ass about...they just want great music.
Old 15th July 2017
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
Right. I think the blind praise and cultish fanboyism definitely contributes to this problem. Instead of holding the developer accountable and demanding higher standards we have users blaming other users for AA bugs and suggesting they change their entire DAW/OS just to use AA products.

I'm really starting to think AA have targeted hobbyists and old studio vets who are no longer active in the game. Users who aren't working on critical, commercial projects and have time to nurse maid these great sounding but finicky plugins and money to spend trying to achieve the sound of famed vintage hardware that many have never used/had access to and most music listeners don't give a rat's ass about...they just want great music.
100% SPOT ON!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Old 15th July 2017
  #838
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
Right. I think the blind praise and cultish fanboyism definitely contributes to this problem. Instead of holding the developer accountable and demanding higher standards we have users blaming other users for AA bugs and suggesting they change their entire DAW/OS just to use AA products.

I'm really starting to think AA have targeted hobbyists and old studio vets who are no longer active in the game. Users who aren't working on critical, commercial projects and have time to nurse maid these great sounding but finicky plugins and money to spend trying to achieve the sound of famed vintage hardware that many have never used/had access to and most music listeners don't give a rat's ass about...they just want great music.
some of you sound pretty frustrated about that missing "multi rack" feature, seems to be THE missing feature, wasn´t aware of it.
again, should be clear in the meantime, if you wan´t that sound you get with AA you have to pay the price for it, if you don´t want to, you can use other manufacturers.
would be great if this thread could stay informative and don´t turn in a "im terribly frustrated and i need to tell it to the whole world" thread.
Old 15th July 2017
  #839
Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
some of you sound pretty frustrated about that missing "multi rack" feature, seems to be THE missing feature, wasn´t aware of it.
again, should be clear in the meantime, if you wan´t that sound you get with AA you have to pay the price for it, if you don´t want to, you can use other manufacturers.
would be great if this thread could stay informative and don´t turn in a "im terribly frustrated and i need to tell it to the whole world" thread.
Let me spell it out for you then
N4 is a slightly improved N3 with different features. Not better features, different.
One of the main selling features is not in it.
THE MAIN FEATURED PROMISED AND SHOWN ON COUNTLESS THREADS AND PAGES IS NOT IN N4!
Hope that helped you understand but if not your welcome to
1. Not use the N4 currently out.
2. Use this version of N4 and be fine with it because that's all you get.
3. Complain about it and hope enough people read and see this bad business to help influence both change and the promised features.

Your choice.
Old 16th July 2017
  #840
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Great post although i just learned to ignore super fanboys like that dude,it's like reasoning with a wall,they're AA junkies high on that gas fanboys keep feeding each other.
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