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N4 (Nebula4) is finally out! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 27th January 2017
  #571
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
I thought they named it .... N4

For clarity ... I do not consider 2 separate products that can coexist, an upgrade.

An 'upgrade', imo, would OVERWRITE the previous version.

I'm intentionally ignoring the similarities of basic functions, and that N4 can read Neb-3 libraries. [Neb-3 cannot read N4 libraries as best I know].

OK ?
I think your on shaky ground there with regards to if its an upgrade or a new product, most would assume 4 to be an upgrade on three, think iphone4 for example.

If it were a new product why not name it something different ?
Old 27th January 2017
  #572
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMCRISIS View Post
I'm a newby to Nebula. LoL
God help you then , Good Luck it aint as easy as your UAD plugs to deal with and in the end wont sound much better either in a busy mix

I mainly use their stuff for mastering tasks when I haven't got a million other things running at the same time !

G will get you sorted eventually but this company don't help themselves much
Old 27th January 2017
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTW View Post
Why do professional musicians come into this frame?
Surely the question is, is there anything that can give this quality of sound ITB.
Professional musicians don't own music quality, in fact the vast majority leave those decisions to the professional mixing engineers.
Your only alternative is hardware. So a great deal more space and money.
Yes but when your under contract and pressure to deliver you generally need the stuff that gets the results in the quickest possible way, in other words workflow becomes an issue, this is obviously not the issue if you are sitting in a bedroom somewhere believing that your plugs are greater than the big consoles available in hi end studios's
Old 28th January 2017
  #574
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor For Music View Post
Yes but when your under contract and pressure to deliver you generally need the stuff that gets the results in the quickest possible way, in other words workflow becomes an issue, this is obviously not the issue if you are sitting in a bedroom somewhere believing that your plugs are greater than the big consoles available in hi end studios's
You obviously cannot read into questions that some pose, hence your answer.
Old 28th January 2017
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor For Music View Post
I think your on shaky ground there with regards to if its an upgrade or a new product, most would assume 4 to be an upgrade on three, think iphone4 for example.

If it were a new product why not name it something different ?
When N4 was issued to us on the Beta-Testing Team, it was deemed as a New Product, and not as a specific Upgrade.

To this trivial issue, my ground is solid.
Old 28th January 2017
  #576
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zaphod's Avatar
Nebula 4 has a different name indeed: "N4"
It is specifically a new product, not just an update/upgrade. The architecture changed dramatically (also minimum requirements, architectures, even supported formats). Basically we rely even on a new gui framework, juce3
Normally in the acqua plugin world we offer the new product for free (ie titanium -> titanium 2), but after so many years we decided a different policy for nebula. Nebula 2 and nebula 3 are different products of the same family, N4 is a new product of a new generation, different family.

The main difference: a different executable is loading the old nebula 2/nebula 3 engine, so it is an indirect loading. The old engine format was updated to core9. The new executable supports new things (ie the new preset browser, or the vst3 format, or a new class of developments, soon there will be updates). The new executable is going to be migrated to juce4: there will be a better integration with many hosts, for example we'll have better sidechain and even busses. Last but not least, the engine is multi-loading, so it can run acqua plugins or the new acqua library format (way more powerful), while the main executable is supporting natively dynamic delay compensation and dynamic resizing (the second one is already visible when you load a different skin, the first one will be a small revolution in our future updates)
Old 28th January 2017
  #577
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The "is it a different product" debate is weird.

I feel like, had AA opted to not allow backwards compatibility it would have done two things:

1) been a horrible mistake
2) made these arguments totally obvious how unnecessary they are, since it would be concluded as a new product and not just an upgrade.

Again, remember an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player was a new product that ALSO played DVDs. "But it plays DVDs!!! How could it be new. That should be a free update!!"

Can Nebula 3 use N4 libraries?!?

I rest my case, your honor.

PS, I would have LOVED if it were free for neb3 customers. So, I feel ya!!

But, for real... What is the point of debating this aspect of upgrade/new product? Who wins what?

Apologies if I miss something about the noble pursuits of truth. SMH
Old 28th January 2017
  #578
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Well ... I personally try to express 'truth' ... not sure of the 'noble' aspect.

It think it wise to minimize mis-information, or confusion, regardless of the trivialities.

Possibly, the mis-understanding arise from viewing N-4 in its 'Introductory' state. Those of us in 'Beta' are privy to some of the forward visions, and
the FIRST to raise the question of intent when comparing the NEBULA-3, N-4 purpose. It was specific that N-4 would be tested as a new, separate, Product, irrespective that N-4 compatibility would host Nebula-3 libraries.

For those not understanding, N-4 is a separate installation from Neb-3. To use N-4 in a previous project requires the manual procedure of matching Presets and settings. If N-4 was a simple 'upgrade', we would expect previous DAW projects to seamlessly replace Neb-3 with now N-4 and all settings. This is not the case with a new product.

As N-4 evolves, it will have Updates that will further delineate it from its current, 'similar' functioning to Neb-3. There is reasoning behind the 'madness', as the envisioned complexities to come, must be built on a rock solid foundation across all platforms. That is the first order of the challenge, regardless of the depth of beta-testing, least we forget the span of computer system variables, through multiple DAW interaction.

Acustica-Audio is not yet a household name. There are new visitors to the platform coming in. Accurate information is something we should all hope to access.

Thanks to zaphod for the 'Official' statement on this and all Acustica-Audio matters.

Old 28th January 2017
  #579
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Nebula 4 has a different name indeed: "N4"
It is specifically a new product, not just an update/upgrade.
But, don't you sell "upgrades" from N3? You don't call them "crossgrades" do you?
Old 28th January 2017
  #580
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Old 28th January 2017
  #581
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
But, don't you sell "upgrades" from N3? You don't call them "crossgrades" do you?
No we don't... Where did you find such upgrade?

About the debate: while nebula 3, nebula 3 pro and nebula server were similar products, n4 is not. It is the first sensible change to the architecture
Yes we are backward compatible. Anyway we accumulated 1 year of debugging.
Such kind of debug existed also before, but there were frequent updates, so it was a bit masked
Old 28th January 2017
  #582
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RJ- My comments were not directed at you, sir. You've been fair and tolerant.

My favorite is the idea that an iPhone gets an upgrade and isn't a new product. That's hilarious.

Let's all discuss which ones are trees and which are bushes next. Aristotle would be so proud.

The guy that made it said "it's a new product". If he is somehow by some measure wrong... What the hell does it change?!?

First good answer wins the internet.

Sheesh.

Meanwhile N4 is very good. I use it more often than anything these days including my faders.
Old 28th January 2017
  #583
Gear Maniac
 

To all concerned,

99% of people are probably going to assume it's an upgrade. For it to be considered something else by most people, it should probably be named something else entirely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

This thread is titled: N4 (Nebula4) is finally out!

The three main threads on Acustica site forum regarding this product are literally titled:

1) Nebula 4, new details
2) N4 (Nebula4) is finally out!
3) Nebula 4

What's done is done. It will be perceived the way it will be perceived. Please just move ahead and make it the best product it can be.

Let's all help each other. Let's not be condescending and snooty. Let's make this product great.

Last edited by sound_of_ours; 28th January 2017 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 28th January 2017
  #584
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zaphod's Avatar
it is still "nebula". It is a major release, and when it happens - when it happens in IT companies- it is considered a new product. For example Windows nt and Windows xp. They have the same compatibility background but for Microsoft they were completely different products. We could argue forever if they where different products or not, but if the company says they are different... They are different!
On our side the difference is big, there is even a different team working on it, and we are using completely different technologies. We were even forced to drop the support for several legacy systems. We are even forced to rewrite from the scratch the client /server code (other example)
I could make tons of examples (how radical the change is)... It is true it is using "nebula engine", you could even run it as nebula 3 vst, so it is still nebula. This is not very different from the case where a new Windows version is still based on previous win32 dll.
Old 28th January 2017
  #585
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
it is still "nebula". It is a major release, and when it happens - when it happens in IT companies- it is considered a new product. For example Windows nt and Windows xp. They have the same compatibility background but for Microsoft they were completely different products. We could argue forever if they where different products or not, but if the company says they are different... They are different!
On our side the difference is big, there is even a different team working on it, and we are using completely different technologies. We were even forced to drop the support for several legacy systems. We are even forced to rewrite from the scratch the client /server code (other example)
I totally understand your perspective. It makes sense.
Old 28th January 2017
  #586
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... And once again, the main point for consumers ...

N-4 is not a direct replacement for Nebula-3, so previous projects will not automatically replace original Neb-3 instances with the new N-4 install.
People are rightfully concerned when installing any perceived 'upgrade', from compatibility, sonic differences, etc.

This is NOT a semantics issue.

Those that have Neb-3 and now N-4 will already understand all this. The concern are for those considering N-4, and minimizing possible confusion and concerns.

Certainly, there are more important topics to discuss. Lets just try to 'keep the waters clear' along the way.

SIMPLE.
Old 28th January 2017
  #587
Gear Nut
And Nebula works on linux via WINE ASIO (as all my vst working without crappy activation works on all systems)
simply works same process so maybe i can throw off my waves and keep nebula good job
as VST patcher and Host called Carla must be... patched I use reaper as a perfect vst host without any flaws.
To acustica audio: you MUST improve your site, your manuals and how to's. (and sorry to say that but your support too, i've been helped by users not really by the support..)

Last edited by IPascal; 28th January 2017 at 10:32 PM..
Old 28th January 2017
  #588
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zaphod's Avatar
The nebula manual is under revision these days
The other user manuals are imho simply amazing
There will be a new website very soon
Old 28th January 2017
  #589
Gear Nut
nice !
Old 29th January 2017
  #590
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Nebula 4 has a different name indeed: "N4"
G you have just referred to the product as Nebula 4
Old 29th January 2017
  #591
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Again, remember an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player was a new product that ALSO played DVDs. "But it plays DVDs!!! How could it be new. That should be a free update!!"
Has anyone on this thread said this should be a free update, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a nebula 4 product, not a completely new concept or range of products, like Coral or Navy for example.

It would be nice if existing N3 Pro users were acknowledged for their support and given an upgrade path. But by claiming it is a new breed etc etc is giving AA the option to charge full rate as if it were a new conception, when if fact it is a reworking of an existing idea called N3.

There is a precedent in the world of software to acknowledge existing users with an upgrade path, I wouldn't rest your case just yet your honor.
Old 29th January 2017
  #592
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
An 'upgrade', imo, would OVERWRITE the previous version.OK ?
No not at all, you can run two versions of Studio One on the same computer without one over writing the other, in fact Presonus actively encourage you to do so, in case files created on one version cause issues in another.
Old 29th January 2017
  #593
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Neb 3 server was given an upgrade path.

That was the nebula product released prior to N4.

They announced that it would be the only upgrade path offered; Well in advance.

Likewise they offer (massive) loyalty discounts and pre-sale prices.

Existing users of SERVER were offered
that path. Loyalty was rewarded.

So, I understand you are frustrated that you don't qualify. No one likes paying more than they feel they should have to.

But Nebula 3 still works. An overwhelming majority of the libraries for either will be neb 3 libs for quite sometime. No one has taken away anything you own.

If it's truly a product you want, it has traditionally been the most attractive Black Friday discount they offer.

By that time it should be more obvious (based on what the Devs are saying) if the potential aspects will be fast-tracked.

N4 free is there in the meantime...
Old 29th January 2017
  #594
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
My favorite is the idea that an iPhone gets an upgrade and isn't a new product. That's hilarious.
As you were reading the comments it seems the lights were on but no one was home.

AA is saying to us that N4 is an entirely different product which does not warrant an upgrade path to existing users of N3. Apple iphone do not say an iphone 5 is a different product from an iphone4, its still a mobile phone at the end of the day its an updated version of the same thing NOT a new product at all.
Old 29th January 2017
  #595
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Neb 3 server was given an upgrade path.

That was the nebula product released prior to N4.

They announced that it would be the only upgrade path offered; Well in advance.

Likewise they offer (massive) loyalty discounts and pre-sale prices.

Existing users of SERVER were offered
that path. Loyalty was rewarded.

So, I understand you are frustrated that you don't qualify. No one likes paying more than they feel they should have to.

But Nebula 3 still works. An overwhelming majority of the libraries for either will be neb 3 libs for quite sometime. No one has taken away anything you own.

If it's truly a product you want, it has traditionally been the most attractive Black Friday discount they offer.

By that time it should be more obvious (based on what the Devs are saying) if the potential aspects will be fast-tracked.

N4 free is there in the meantime...
I think I agree with all of this. What matters to me is functionality, sound quality, stability. I think Acustica should charge whatever they need to charge to satisfy their business needs. I want them to survive and thrive because the products do sound great and are highly educational at the same time.
Old 29th January 2017
  #596
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Apart from difficult registration which I think many here experienced with Neubula 3, I had no issues with the product itself or its functioning on my system, its just that I wasn't overwhelmed by it, I found the workflow to be fiddling as each band of EQ was a different plugin, this in the real world just isn't great workflow. Coupled to that if you did find something you liked it was CPU hungry and when your doing a big mix this is off putting.

I then purchased the Acustica plugin PINK an API ESQ take. Again I used it a few times and it didn't get used much after that, its an ok but not stellar product, API vision does the job and sounds closer to my API hardware.

Now Tan I found to be a great product this ends up on my 2 buss while mixing (rather like UAD Massive Passive) most of the time but I don't generally print mixes with it on as I usually allow this to be done in mastering, but a very usable 2 buss compressor.

I am more curious about coral than N4, because i have found N3 just an ok product, not a game changer IMHO. I have the libraries from Alex b and the like, but again the fact of having so many instances just to do a 4 band EQ doesn't appeal to my workflow.

I am a supporter of AA and what they are doing and will buy again, if N4 was to offer workflow enhancements rather than just sound quality enhancements it would be of greater value.

Just MHO FWIW

Old 29th January 2017
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor For Music View Post
As you were reading the comments it seems the lights were on but no one was home.

AA is saying to us that N4 is an entirely different product which does not warrant an upgrade path to existing users of N3. Apple iphone do not say an iphone 5 is a different product from an iphone4, its still a mobile phone at the end of the day its an updated version of the same thing NOT a new product at all.
iPhone Upgrade Program - Apple

Here you go. This should help.

I appreciate the slight on my intelligence. I realize now that Apple says the iPhone is an upgrade and therefore Nebula charges unethical amounts based on this.

I really do feel dumb because it's my fault I participated in this discussion.

My friend, thanks sincerely. I shall concede the Internet to you.

Your example proves your point. My example doesn't.

I guess we COULD conclude that it's not settled law... And it's the domain of the business to set their upgrade and pricing policies. But, my lights aren't on-- so let's just agree that you're correct. K?

Getting back to common ground:

Please do check out coral, it's awesome!

Money well spent, and would unlock further discounts should you choose to purchase N4 later.
Old 29th January 2017
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor For Music View Post
No not at all, you can run two versions of Studio One on the same computer without one over writing the other, in fact Presonus actively encourage you to do so, in case files created on one version cause issues in another.
Yeah ... OK.

I've moved on to important topics.
Old 29th January 2017
  #599
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor For Music View Post
G you have just referred to the product as Nebula 4
It is!
The fact "vista" is the name of a new "Windows" release, which is obviously very different from "Windows xp" but it is still "windows".
You can be sure vista and xp are two different products, marketed by Microsoft in different ways, with restricted update politics (and a suggested clean installation)
"N4" is a new version of "nebula" and the product is very different from "nebula 3". We suggest to adopt a different repository, different magic numbers.

N4 IS nebula (it is the short name for "nebula 4")
Acustica is telling you N4 is nebula and it is a different product from "nebula 3/2"... Which is your issue with that? What is wrong? I cannot get it...
When Microsoft released Windows Vista, or 7, or 8... Did they provide a "free" upgrade?
Speaking about phones, I was not even able to load ios6 on my old iPhone 3 (not even my 4s). A great number of paid applications were not updated any more, something even stopped working and I was forced to buy an iPhone 6... With a stupid connector which broke.. So I migrated to 6s... Sometimes I feel like I'm renting a phone...
We released nebula 3 in 2007 and it was on sale till 2013. Nebula 3 pro was released in 2009 and it was on sale till two months ago. During this period of time I bought 4 Apple phones

Last edited by zaphod; 29th January 2017 at 08:26 AM..
Old 29th January 2017
  #600
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
N4 IS nebula (it is the short name for "nebula 4")
Acustica is telling you N4 is nebula and it is a different product from "nebula 3/2"... Which is your issue with that? What is wrong? I cannot get it...
When Microsoft released Windows Vista, or 7, or 8... Did they provide a "free" upgrade?
Who ever said the upgrade should be free? As far as iam aware you do not have an upgrade path from 3 to 4 ?
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