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N4 (Nebula4) is finally out! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 24th January 2017
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
So you're saying we should trust your ears rather than actual data. You allocate an awful lot of time on these boards. Two minutes to flip the phase on an N4 pass and an N3 pass would be time well spent for all of us.

But whatever ...
No ... you can download a TRIAL, and then you can trust Your ears.

As for 'Null' test.

I find the mis-interpretation of that 'data', from many comments made, confirms that many do not understand what the results mean.
Old 24th January 2017
  #542
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Nebula does not NULL to INF. This 'randomness' is built into the ENGINE.
Old 24th January 2017
  #543
Gear Nut
 
Cali.bre's Avatar
 

As much as I love the sound, to be frank and honest, I think at this point, without the much touted multi racking feature, N4 is essentially an updated Nebula 3 engine with a new browser and improved compression action. . .
I personally can't discern any real difference in sound quality using the 3rd party libs I know and love from Nebula 3.
Still lots of niggling bugs and teething problems that we the paying customers have the "pleasure" of uncovering. Still fiddling with XML files.

I saw Giancarlo advise someone on the AA forum to rename the N4 Mac engine file "Nebula 3" and that created a new instance of Nebula 3 apparently...
How so if N4 is a totally new product?
Old 24th January 2017
  #544
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I don't have any tracks that I can release to the public without getting Client permission.

To be clear, They have business considerations that override 'curiosity'.

To be crystal ... I don't think anyone's opinion/observation should be taken as definitive law. And that includes mine, as I have
zero interest in compelling anyone as to what they should or shouldn't use. The possible, 'perceived bias', pointed at Beta-Testers reinforces
my stance.

When I take 'listening breaks' from my session work, I do try to attend the forums, and if I can, look to help.
Aside from our 'Non-disclosure' agreement as a beta-tester, I am under no obligation to hold anyone's opinion nor agenda.
I test for the PC Windows platform, and am a active, vocal, critic in the beta-forum along with other Testers. [many Seasoned, Veteran Engineers].

To the 'subjective' opinion of sound quality difference: I hear a difference from identical libraries of Neb-3 running A/B'd with N4. I am not the only
one to make that observation.

Is the difference subtle? How can I answer that?

As a Mastering Engineer, many of the choices of equipment [Presets] and the subsequent adjustments we make in the process CAN be termed 'subtle'.
It is far different environment/demand than when I was a Tracking/Mix Engineer.

I like, and prefer the sounds I now hear using N4. From the Main monitors to my SENN-650 headphones.

I have looked to manually replace Neb-3 with N4 in a couple on-going sessions. I found that I cannot just do a one-for-one replacement, and be done with it.
No ... the reason? I found that Neb-3 had a subtle build-up, a type of cloudy low-mid range that I would address through another Nebula instance.

There are other sonic differences [yes, maybe subtle to some], but I'm stating that I had to be mindful of the difference, to the point that I had to re-adjust [or even eliminate a Nebula instance].

So ... OK ... I'll concede ... N4 is an UPGRADE ... a sonic upgrade. Does the Earth now rotate in a different direction? No ... Nebula-3 is very, very, good ... some say Excellent. [but some people do not hear a difference between Nebula and other 'algo' types]. That is what they do or don't hear. I am far removed from making any judgment, as it has no bearing on my work.

... which I now must return to.
Old 24th January 2017
  #545
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
So ... OK ... I'll concede ... N4 is an UPGRADE
Thank you.
Old 24th January 2017
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Thank you.
Another 'World Crisis' solved.

But next time ... please quote the entire thought, rather than just to satisfy syntax.

Here ... I'll post it:
Quote:
N4 is an UPGRADE ... a sonic upgrade.
Why to I differentiate. Because now the questions come regarding backward compatibility, will my old projects sound the same, will my old project even load. Oh ... the list of concerns continues.

N4 is therefore a new product. Separate from Nebula-3, and can co-exist with a Neb-3 installation. And yes, it will load Neb-3 libraries [but does NOT add new functionality to said Neb-3 libraries].

2. If you want to consider it an 'upgrade' ... whatever, but add this ... the World is also of People that English is not the native language. Why stir potential confusion. No more wasted time on this nuance for me.
Old 24th January 2017
  #547
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junior's Avatar
 

OK, whatever you say. LOL
Old 24th January 2017
  #548
Gear Nut
same soft same problems same prices
NO.
Old 24th January 2017
  #549
Gear Addict
I really don't understand what some of you guys are going on about!
As it is, there is a discernible increase in stability and quality of tools in N4 over N3.
But if you don't believe that AA will come up with the goods that they forecast, and you don't want to be subject to software glitches in that process, what did you buy it for? They've made good on those things all last year with some great products.
I'm demoing Prime Black at the moment, great product. That's because of Core 9. Discernible quality in product.
Also, free N4? Come on lads, be reasonable.
Old 24th January 2017
  #550
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTW View Post
I'm demoing Prime Black at the moment, d
What is this?
Old 24th January 2017
  #551
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davidgary73's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
What is this?
Prime Studio Black comp/limiter @ https://primestudio.at/magento2/inde...s/blscomp.html
Old 24th January 2017
  #552
Gear Nut
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgary73 View Post
Good to see the prices have become a lot more reasonable (compared to their first offerings)
Old 24th January 2017
  #553
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
As much as I love the sound, to be frank and honest, I think at this point, without the much touted multi racking feature, N4 is essentially an updated Nebula 3 engine with a new browser and improved compression action. . .
I personally can't discern any real difference in sound quality using the 3rd party libs I know and love from Nebula 3.
Still lots of niggling bugs and teething problems that we the paying customers have the "pleasure" of uncovering. Still fiddling with XML files.

I saw Giancarlo advise someone on the AA forum to rename the N4 Mac engine file "Nebula 3" and that created a new instance of Nebula 3 apparently...
How so if N4 is a totally new product?
Yeah this is what I was concerned about. Nebula 3 sounded great but I ended up on forums after spending several hundred $ finding out how to toggle settings in XML files for more accurate transient response...no thanks. If this is still going on I'll pass. I thought the whole point with N4 was that it was going to have a rack feature so that's one less reason to take the plunge here.

Also I find it odd people are finding 'muddiness' or whatever they are claiming in N3 libraries. The whole point of Nebula is that it's based off responses of the actual hardware and was supposedly completely true to its tone. This was said of all the good N3 libraries. So, what exactly is N4 doing then? It's making an SSL desk sound better than it does in real life? Or N3 just wasn't as good? Ok...
Old 24th January 2017
  #554
Gear Maniac
 
marcpl's Avatar
 

I was able to work out my authorization issues and I have to say that so far i'm impressed with N4. Every 3rd party library that I've tried is working in N4. Although I did have to rename my AlexB PC&S folder to PCS before N4 would recognize it.

I don't notice any difference at all in sound quality between N3 and N4 but I didn't expect to so it's fine.

The new GUI and program browser are great. But it stinks that the 'last' menu still goes empty if you close then re-open the plugin window.
Also, my personal preference would be to open the program menu by left clicking and the detached browser by right clicking but that's just me.

The load time for N4 AAX is so much faster than N3 on my system.

I look forward to seeing where this goes.
Old 24th January 2017
  #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Edwards View Post
Yeah this is what I was concerned about. Nebula 3 sounded great but I ended up on forums after spending several hundred $ finding out how to toggle settings in XML files for more accurate transient response...no thanks. If this is still going on I'll pass. I thought the whole point with N4 was that it was going to have a rack feature so that's one less reason to take the plunge here.

Also I find it odd people are finding 'muddiness' or whatever they are claiming in N3 libraries. The whole point of Nebula is that it's based off responses of the actual hardware and was supposedly completely true to its tone. This was said of all the good N3 libraries. So, what exactly is N4 doing then? It's making an SSL desk sound better than it does in real life? Or N3 just wasn't as good? Ok...
Respectfully, was DVD good? Compared to VHS it's amazing. But blu-ray is better... 4K video even better... And this list WILL continue to a point of diminishing marginal return. For somethings a DVD is plenty. Barely a difference. For others it's more pronounced.

I'm sure you have no issue with these statements.

Please apply all the same logic to Nebula... And you'll have answered these questions yourself.

What once is best, later becomes eclipsed. This is typical. Though in our world, who knows, maybe "vintage libraries" will become en vogue.
Old 24th January 2017
  #556
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Respectfully, was DVD good? Compared to VHS it's amazing. But blu-ray is better... 4K video even better... And this list WILL continue to a point of diminishing marginal return. For somethings a DVD is plenty. Barely a difference. For others it's more pronounced.

I'm sure you have no issue with these statements.

Please apply all the same logic to Nebula... And you'll have answered these questions yourself.

What once is best, later becomes eclipsed. This is typical. Though in our world, who knows, maybe "vintage libraries" will become en vogue.
So, David Ray, in which way are you comparing N3 vs N4? VHS to DVD? Blu-ray to 4K? Or are you just putting up words that don't really apply?

Instead of words, how about you put up some tracks that demonstrate the improved quality of N4 over N3. Or will you make the same excuses that RJ has, which is he doesn't have the time, or he would be violating his client's privacy or whatever.

Demonstrate with actual data or at least sound samples, not just irrelevant metaphors.

Just be factual. That's all we ask. And no, irrelevant metaphors or claiming to have golden ears are not facts.

"What once is best, later becomes eclipsed." ... give me a break.
Old 24th January 2017
  #557
Gear Maniac
 

And just for the record, I would love it if N4 is superior to N3. That would be awesome. I just want proof before I invest the large amount of time and money required to redo my entire system around N4.

I'm a Nebula fan.

I'm not a fan of passive-aggressive fanboys.
Old 24th January 2017
  #558
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcpl View Post
The new GUI and program browser are great. But it stinks that the 'last' menu still goes empty if you close then re-open the plugin window.
Also, my personal preference would be to open the program menu by left clicking and the detached browser by right clicking but that's just me.
Marc, please write down your issues, wishes & feature requests on official AA forums as well - they are much easier to notice and track that way.

Thanks!

EDIT:
Missing last menu when re-opening plugin will be fixed with next N4 update - thx for pointing it out.

Last edited by zabukowski; 24th January 2017 at 10:51 PM..
Old 24th January 2017
  #559
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTW View Post
Also, free N4? Come on lads, be reasonable.
Free N4? Who said that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Edwards View Post
Yeah this is what I was concerned about. Nebula 3 sounded great but I ended up on forums after spending several hundred $ finding out how to toggle settings in XML files for more accurate transient response...no thanks. If this is still going on I'll pass. I thought the whole point with N4 was that it was going to have a rack feature so that's one less reason to take the plunge here.
Exactly.
Old 24th January 2017
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
So, David Ray, in which way are you comparing N3 vs N4? VHS to DVD? Blu-ray to 4K? Or are you just putting up words that don't really apply?

Instead of words, how about you put up some tracks that demonstrate the improved quality of N4 over N3. Or will you make the same excuses that RJ has, which is he doesn't have the time, or he would be violating his client's privacy or whatever.

Demonstrate with actual data or at least sound samples, not just irrelevant metaphors.

Just be factual. That's all we ask. And no, irrelevant metaphors or claiming to have golden ears are not facts.

"What once is best, later becomes eclipsed." ... give me a break.
Dang! You caught me!

I answered "how" something can be better.

I own it. I've nothing I need to prove.
Explain to me the upside of me convincing you?

Us disagreeing is fine with me. That's s fact.


N4 allows for next gen features. This is pretty evident in core9 compressors-- this is a widely accepted observation. While not a fact per se... Not common, for those who use it to disagree.

Your allowed to be skeptical. But it's not my responsibility to shape your opinion. Follow your own (valuable) curiosity. When you have time, check it out.
Old 24th January 2017
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
And just for the record, I would love it if N4 is superior to N3. That would be awesome. I just want proof before I invest the large amount of time and money required to redo my entire system around N4.

I'm a Nebula fan.

I'm not a fan of passive-aggressive fanboys.
Is there something wrong with you downloading and demo'ing the N4 trial.

Yours is not the only 'time' that has value. The proof is testing your own material.
Old 25th January 2017
  #562
Gear Nut
 
Cali.bre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Edwards View Post
I thought the whole point with N4 was that it was going to have a rack feature so that's one less reason to take the plunge here.
Here's our answer...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
As I understand it, that will only be initially possible with Acustica and third party Acqua libraries (assuming third party devs take up the Acustica development package) and not with regular, existing Nebula libraries.

To allow stacking of existing libraries by users will not create a sustainable business model for Acustica.

Who would buy an Acqua for ~€200 when you could buy a library for €30 and stack it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
This is the point: we need to build a business model, otherwise we destroy our market and even the company, and also the 3rd party business would collapse immediately later.
This is the reason why we didn't provide a timeframe. But it is in our plans.


Giancarlo's answer suggests to me that this functionality will be suppressed until AA have made enough money with Aqua plugins. . .
I understand business needs to make financial sense but if true, this roll out feels a little duplicitous.

As it stands, I know I'm not the only one who feels kinda hoodwinked after purchasing N4 with the hopes of taking advantage of this feature -after it was widely publicized as one of the main new features...Only to be told it's inclusion would only hurt AA's business interests, at this time...
Old 25th January 2017
  #563
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
Here's our answer...

Giancarlo's answer suggests to me that this functionality will be suppressed until AA have made enough money with Aqua plugins. . .
I understand business needs to make financial sense but if true, this roll out feels a little duplicitous.

As it stands, I know I'm not the only one who feels kinda hoodwinked after purchasing N4 with the hopes of taking advantage of this feature -after it was widely publicized as one of the main new features...Only to be told it's inclusion would only hurt AA's business interests, at this time...
Yeah, I don't understand this. I've had a series of experiences with AA that I don't understand, and at this point I won't be buying any more of their products. Unfortunately my investment in N3 and 3rd party libraries is just a sunk cost.
Old 25th January 2017
  #564
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I don't think that stacking libraries in Nebula makes it similar to an Acqua plugin. We would still have to load the library, we would still have the same old GUI, and the same old "Cores" with the old N3 libraries.

I don't think that if someone wants an Acqua, he would buy a Nebula library instead, just because now he can stack libraries in one instance (wow!).

What I do know is that is a pain in the ass having to use 6 inserts in my DAW to have a complete Neve EQ.
Old 25th January 2017
  #565
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zaphod's Avatar
...
A timeframe for it was never provided by any of us (check if we ever did it on every possible board, website, interview)
It is in our plans, though, and this is a very logical move. There are many things which will be delivered before it, and they will fix also the actual business model. We are imho a very fair company, we explain things as much clearly as possible. So if you have a question just ask and I'll try to explain our position on the matter following the things we now at the moment (I cannot forecast the future, what other companies are doing, our consequent moves and so on)
Old 25th January 2017
  #566
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
I don't think that stacking libraries in Nebula makes it similar to an Acqua plugin. We would still have to load the library, we would still have the same old GUI, and the same old "Cores" with the old N3 libraries.

I don't think that if someone wants an Acqua, he would buy a Nebula library instead, just because now he can stack libraries in one instance (wow!).

What I do know is that is a pain in the ass having to use 6 inserts in my DAW to have a complete Neve EQ.
There are many "chainer" solutions which provide incredible flexibility and features. And once you build out an EQ in a chainer you can save it. I control entire Nebula based EQs with MIDI controllers this way. Works great. Take about an hour to build one and then you have it forever.
Old 25th January 2017
  #567
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In FACT I have seen a timeline from Giancarlo concerning this.

He said they would NOT have stacking at launch. Likewise that it was not going to be promised by a specific date.

Stacking is not as interesting as a chain which can allow for inter-dependent interactions between modules...

My *hope* is that when implemented, we see something compelling, not just something that requires fewer windows or instances.

That said: I would love it if they had this already. But it was made very clear that it would not be a launch feature.
Old 27th January 2017
  #568
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
It's not perfect but I've rarely had issues with it. Acustica will continue to improve and iron out bugs but for anyone wanting to hop on the Nebula train TODAY a Windows REAPER system is the best way to go.
Unless of course you are already heavily invested in Thunderbolt Technology, then that posses a slightly different issue, wouldn't want to change my setup just for one developers products, just not practical.
Old 27th January 2017
  #569
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Seriously even for the highest price, 167 you have more compressors than what you'll ever use
That's funny G, your site just offered me N4 for 191.20 and I am a registered N3 user
Old 27th January 2017
  #570
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Motor For Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
Giancarlo's answer suggests to me that this functionality will be suppressed until AA have made enough money with Aqua plugins. . .
I understand business needs to make financial sense but if true, this roll out feels a little duplicitous.

As it stands, I know I'm not the only one who feels kinda hoodwinked after purchasing N4 with the hopes of taking advantage of this feature -after it was widely publicized as one of the main new features...Only to be told it's inclusion would only hurt AA's business interests, at this time...
I wont be buying any products until I am satisfied they include the features I want and need at the time of purchase
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