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Akai Professional reigns supreme with new MPC X Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 19th February 2017
  #211
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mike vee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
No it is not. In any case you give no argument whatsoever for why your position is valid.
I don't need to give an argument. It's not debatable that USB is not a professional digital audio format. It's a consumer level computer format and not a substitute for SPDIF or AES. Would you like me to expose your lack of knowledge any further or are you done?
Old 19th February 2017
  #212
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
I don't need to give an argument.
Since USB is used so much throughout the music business, yes you do need to give (pretty good) arguments.

Quote:
It's a consumer level computer format and not a substitute for SPDIF or AES.
Why do you even want to compare it to spdif (another consumer format btw) or AES?? It's a completely different kind of interface with completely different capabilities than either AES or SPDIF.

So for instance, USB has a much much much much (i cannot stress this enough) much higher bandwidth. So you can for instance do bulk transfers of samples. With either spdif or aes you'd be doing it all in real time because their bandwidth is limited to real time audio.
USB2 is about 128x faster at transfering data. And you could indeed have over a hundred 24bit/96kHz audio streams running over USB2. And that is the old USB standard. USB3 is much more capable.

And calling USB a consumer format is kindof 1999 level talking (And you're right that USB was originally developed mainly with consumers in mind).
USB at the moment is THE most ubiquitous computer interface around. It is being used for both consumer and professional use. Your SPDIF and AES are in fact dinosaurs when it comes to digital I/O. True, they have their use, but they certainly also have their limitations and are not suited for a whole lot of applications that are standard practice for many pro's.

What usb is not is a straight digital audio cable. But that doesn't make it less pro or something silly like that.
So IF you want/need to limit yourself to straight digital interconnects, then yes, USB is not the interface you're looking for.
If you're not constrained by that requirement then USB has lots and lots of pro uses and is in fact being used in pro environments all the time.

I guess on something like an MPC the use case for AES or SPDIF is not that great. Convertors have come a long long way since the 90's. You can simply sample the analog signals and it will be pretty effin good. No real need to do the spdif or aes stuff.
I agree that it would be a nice option for completeness but for most users it will not be an issue. At all.
The possibilities you gain by having them are kindof minimal these days.
I mean, give me a solid reason why you would need them in a device like the MPC X. I can't think of any.
Old 19th February 2017
  #213
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Since USB is used so much throughout the music business, yes you do need to give (pretty good) arguments.



Why do you even want to compare it to spdif (another consumer format btw) or AES?? It's a completely different kind of interface with completely different capabilities than either AES or SPDIF.

So for instance, USB has a much much much much (i cannot stress this enough) much higher bandwidth. So you can for instance do bulk transfers of samples. With either spdif or aes you'd be doing it all in real time because their bandwidth is limited to real time audio.
USB2 is about 128x faster at transfering data. And you could indeed have over a hundred 24bit/96kHz audio streams running over USB2. And that is the old USB standard. USB3 is much more capable.

And calling USB a consumer format is kindof 1999 level talking (And you're right that USB was originally developed mainly with consumers in mind).
USB at the moment is THE most ubiquitous computer interface around. It is being used for both consumer and professional use. Your SPDIF and AES are in fact dinosaurs when it comes to digital I/O. True, they have their use, but they certainly also have their limitations and are not suited for a whole lot of applications that are standard practice for many pro's.

What usb is not is a straight digital audio cable. But that doesn't make it less pro or something silly like that.
So IF you want/need to limit yourself to straight digital interconnects, then yes, USB is not the interface you're looking for.
If you're not constrained by that requirement then USB has lots and lots of pro uses and is in fact being used in pro environments all the time.

I guess on something like an MPC the use case for AES or SPDIF is not that great. Convertors have come a long long way since the 90's. You can simply sample the analog signals and it will be pretty effin good. No real need to do the spdif or aes stuff.
I agree that it would be a nice option for completeness but for most users it will not be an issue. At all.
The possibilities you gain by having them are kindof minimal these days.
I mean, give me a solid reason why you would need them in a device like the MPC X. I can't think of any.
To be fair, you're coming into the conversation late. The comment that you were originally replying to was itself a reply, and given that context, I think his original comment was fair. And for the record, the two of you aren't really disagreeing on the subject.

I would be in favor of digital audio I/O to avoid additional AD/DA stages where possible when interfacing with other digital gear. Take a rack multi-fx unit, for example. If you connect it to your MPC via analog, your signal is passing through four conversion stages.

OTOH, with the way things are going, I would mostly agree that digital I/O is becoming less and less important. But in the pro world, gear doesn't turn over as quickly, so there is still a vast installed base of digital gear out there with digital I/O. And you can't connect a piece of gear to a Bricasti m7, for example, via USB.
Old 19th February 2017
  #214
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
To be fair, you're coming into the conversation late. The comment that you were originally replying to was itself a reply, and given that context, I think his original comment was fair. And for the record, the two of you aren't really disagreeing on the subject.

I would be in favor of digital audio I/O to avoid additional AD/DA stages where possible when interfacing with other digital gear. Take a rack multi-fx unit, for example. If you connect it to your MPC via analog, your signal is passing through four conversion stages.

OTOH, with the way things are going, I would mostly agree that digital I/O is becoming less and less important. But in the pro world, gear doesn't turn over as quickly, so there is still a vast userbase of digital gear out there with digital I/O. And you can't connect a piece of gear to a Bricasti m7, for example, via USB.
Yeah, I figured i entered the conversation too late
I just dont think the mpc means the same thing it did 20 years ago.
It used to be that samplers were much more important as studio devices. Hence people did stuff like high end orchestra on mpc's. Which is kindof ridiculous (and i dont mean this in a bad way)
That kind of high end sampler use has fully transfered to computerland over a decade ago. We also use higher bitdepths for high end sampling. So the need to do everything over digital interconnects with samplers (to get the best from the good ol 16 bits) is kindof not needed anymore on a device like an mpc.

Bricasti on an MPC... the decadence... Sure there Will be people doing this, but realistically how many?

Besides that, i think the mpc x has usb host ports. I think you could connect a class complient interface (digital or analog or whatever) to it? Or is that midi only?
Old 19th February 2017
  #215
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Bricasti on an MPC... the decadence... Sure there Will be people doing this, but realistically how many?
yeah that's fair. There is a guy on this forum somewhere who hooked some high end, Burl level converters with his MPC1000 via SPDIF... IJS, the same concept applies to Kurzweil Rumor for example.
Old 24th February 2017
  #216
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdot View Post
... I realize this isn't an S950, but, saying you'd want to avoid the AD/DA conversion stages of an S950 (or any vintage pieces for that matter) would be defeating the entire purpose of owning one. If you really want clean, there's ITB that will do that better than anything else. Considering the MPC X conversion stage will surely be far far cleaner than any of the revered classics, I don't see it as being any kind of 'issue'. And, these days, the only thing I really use the MPC itself for is chopping from vinyl (which digital won't be much help with) to put into dirtier units with far more limited sample time and chopping functionality. Therefore I have zero use for digital.

I will again stress however, how much I hope they didn't throw in MIDI as an afterthought, and the timing doesn't depend on how many 'VSTs' you've thrown in. It's an MPC - MIDI should be its primary focus. If its timing is at LEAST as tight as the 2kXL (I'm sure we aren't getting 3K perfection here) Akai can take my money.
the midi timing is EVERYTHING. my MPC 5000 was useless. MPC 1000 was even worse w/the exception of JJOS. The timing made it unusable as anything but a self-contained coffin.
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Akai Professional reigns supreme with new MPC X-tumblr_mntujgwh9s1s474z1o1_500.jpg  
Old 24th February 2017
  #217
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How much is MIDI jitter in this unit?
Would be surprised if MIDI is as tight as in the old units.
Old 7th June 2017
  #218
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tdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
How much is MIDI jitter in this unit?
Would be surprised if MIDI is as tight as in the old units.
That's what we need to find out before any $$$ leaves my hands.

If they can do 3K levels they can have my $3K CAD. Otherwise I might as well just keep my 2KXL and PC.
Old 7th June 2017
  #219
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdot View Post
That's what we need to find out before any $$$ leaves my hands.

If they can do 3K levels they can have my $3K CAD. Otherwise I might as well just keep my 2KXL and PC.
I'm leaning less and less toward the X as each day passes, and more towards the Live myself.
Old 10th June 2017
  #220
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shalimo's Avatar
 

I am vaguely interested in the MPC X, things that interest me are midi, vintage mode, ability to up-load old MPC files from previous machines. Vintage mode is much needed in this machine I hope it gives us real down sampling instead of cheesy filters, for my ears this thing sounds way to clean and sterile, on the demos pay close attention to the snares. My 2 cents
Old 11th June 2017
  #221
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tdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
I'm leaning less and less toward the X as each day passes, and more towards the Live myself.
Any reason why?
The Live has less MIDI outs, but I guess it has the same number of outputs as the 2K XL. The CV outs also look interesting, I have a few synths I could actually use them with.
I honestly hope somewhere in Canada will actually stock both so I can try them both, but that's rarely the case.

I guess for me, I'm planning on using it primarily as a sequencer, so it highly depends on how much easier the larger screen is. Number 2 for me, after the MIDI timing, is how easy it will be to sequence on the thing ... as much as I love the 2K, trying to write entire compositions on them is insanely difficult (for me at least), as copying multiple things based on numbers and trying to paste together multiple loops and then splicing audio together on a PC afterwards isn't my idea of ideal workflow - but I just love the process of *composing* loops on a 2K. If the interface allows for recording multiple tracks as a pattern, and allows for arranging multiple patterns into a grid sort of like FL (at least how it was 10 years ago when I used it), and it was easy to drag/copy/paste sections, or some other concept like that, it would be just what I've always wanted on an MPC. I'm just going to assume that the larger screen on the X will make things quite a bit easier than on the Live, but if they feel almost the same to me, maybe the X won't be worth it. The only time I actually use the 2K for its outputs is sampling stereo for records, and chopping them up to run the sounds into the ASR/S950/EMAX, so that part is more or less irrelevant for me (though I am really happy they included a phono input, right now I have to go through an Akai MFC as a phono pre, and reach behind it to switch from phono/line, and change the setup on the patchbay etc, the Live/X would be helpful in that regard).
Old 13th June 2017
  #222
Gear Head
Guitar Center website says "available in October". I assume its not coming out this summer. Maybe I'll go with FXPansions Geist 2. I'll download the trial and see if I like it while I wait to see when the X will come out.

Akai Professional MPC X | Guitar Center
Old 17th June 2017
  #223
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdot View Post
Any reason why?
The Live has less MIDI outs, but I guess it has the same number of outputs as the 2K XL. The CV outs also look interesting, I have a few synths I could actually use them with.
I honestly hope somewhere in Canada will actually stock both so I can try them both, but that's rarely the case.

I guess for me, I'm planning on using it primarily as a sequencer, so it highly depends on how much easier the larger screen is. Number 2 for me, after the MIDI timing, is how easy it will be to sequence on the thing ... as much as I love the 2K, trying to write entire compositions on them is insanely difficult (for me at least), as copying multiple things based on numbers and trying to paste together multiple loops and then splicing audio together on a PC afterwards isn't my idea of ideal workflow - but I just love the process of *composing* loops on a 2K. If the interface allows for recording multiple tracks as a pattern, and allows for arranging multiple patterns into a grid sort of like FL (at least how it was 10 years ago when I used it), and it was easy to drag/copy/paste sections, or some other concept like that, it would be just what I've always wanted on an MPC. I'm just going to assume that the larger screen on the X will make things quite a bit easier than on the Live, but if they feel almost the same to me, maybe the X won't be worth it. The only time I actually use the 2K for its outputs is sampling stereo for records, and chopping them up to run the sounds into the ASR/S950/EMAX, so that part is more or less irrelevant for me (though I am really happy they included a phono input, right now I have to go through an Akai MFC as a phono pre, and reach behind it to switch from phono/line, and change the setup on the patchbay etc, the Live/X would be helpful in that regard).
At this time, the Live seems like less of a gamble at its price point versus the X at its price point. On top of that, I would get more portability with the Live, which is a big factor for me because I like to travel around the GTA and collaborate with as much people as I can. I'm still waiting to see though if the X is worth waiting on instead of simply getting a Live once they're finally in stock over here.
Old 15th August 2017
  #224
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DJ Hellfire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
I don't need to give an argument. It's not debatable that USB is not a professional digital audio format. It's a consumer level computer format and not a substitute for SPDIF or AES. Would you like me to expose your lack of knowledge any further or are you done?
This is extremely inaccurate by today's standard. We aren't talking USB 2 here. It's USB 3 which is comparable to Thunderbolt/PCIe/eSata. Even Universal Audio is using USB 3 on their Windows interfaces and DSP cards. Thunderbolt 2/3 is clearly superior, but still, the fact that USB 3 is being compared with TB in benchmark tests tells you it's not just "consumer" level. I'm sure some would argue that Firewire 800 is/was a "professional" computer format. However, in addition to it practically being discontinued, USB 3 is faster.
Old 15th August 2017
  #225
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mike vee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire View Post
This is extremely inaccurate by today's standard. We aren't talking USB 2 here. It's USB 3 which is comparable to Thunderbolt/PCIe/eSata. Even Universal Audio is using USB 3 on their Windows interfaces and DSP cards. Thunderbolt 2/3 is clearly superior, but still, the fact that USB 3 is being compared with TB in benchmark tests tells you it's not just "consumer" level. I'm sure some would argue that Firewire 800 is/was a "professional" computer format. However, in addition to it practically being discontinued, USB 3 is faster.
NONE of those are AUDIO formats. They are data formats that require drivers. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Old 16th August 2017
  #226
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DJ Hellfire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire View Post
This is extremely inaccurate by today's standard. We aren't talking USB 2 here. It's USB 3 which is comparable to Thunderbolt/PCIe/eSata. Even Universal Audio is using USB 3 on their Windows interfaces and DSP cards. Thunderbolt 2/3 is clearly superior, but still, the fact that USB 3 is being compared with TB in benchmark tests tells you it's not just "consumer" level. I'm sure some would argue that Firewire 800 is/was a "professional" computer format. However, in addition to it practically being discontinued, USB 3 is faster.
NONE of those are AUDIO formats. They are data formats that require drivers. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Yes, I'm aware of that. I was referring to your professional vs consumer comparison, not the semantics on USB being data instead of audio.
Old 16th August 2017
  #227
mp3
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It's a bit more than semantics, though Mike vee's presentation of the subject is a bit on the bombastic side.

There's a large installed base of equipment out there with digital I/O that can connect to every mpc ever made except the 60 (old), 500 (budget), and Live and X (inexplicable omission).
Old 17th August 2017
  #228
Gear Addict
 

Any feedback about mpc x crash test (under stress) ?
Old 18th August 2017
  #229
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
NONE of those are AUDIO formats. They are data formats that require drivers.
All digital interfaces need drivers somewhere.
SPDIF needs drivers. AES/EBU needs drivers. Every processor that needs to talk to a hardware interface needs drivers.
That includes your pc, your phone, the original MPC, the new MPC, etc, etc, etc..

Quote:
You are comparing apples and oranges.
And you appear to not understand the subject.
Old 18th August 2017
  #230
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
There's a large installed base of equipment out there with digital I/O that can connect to every mpc ever made except the 60 (old), 500 (budget), and Live and X (inexplicable omission).
That's kindof a moot point. You can use the analog outs and have much much more hardware to connect to.
The reasons for wanting to connect your MPC through SPDIF are marginal.
If you need to go to spdif (or whatever) just use the analog outs and then use a converter of your choice.
Old 18th August 2017
  #231
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
The reasons for wanting to connect your MPC through SPDIF are marginal.
That's an opinion my friend.

For me its useful to remove the 2 (or 4 if its a signal loop - e.g. when resampling thru a digital fx unit) required AD/DA conversion stages and all their attendant opamps and capacitors from the signal chain when connecting two pieces of digital gear. Makes a big difference, I find, down the line when mixing. Especially when some of those mentioned components (like the ubiquitous NJM5532 opamp and the literally dime-a-dozen capacitors and resistors found in sooo much gear) are less than stellar.

For me, being judicious about when, where, and how many times to convert the signal is key to my mixing results.

When I had an MPC 2500, I used it exclusively through digital (SPDIF and/or file transfer) because the mix came out better in the end that way. My A4000 (Analog Devices OP275 opamps and TI converters) on the other hand, sounds excellent through analog. With these new MPCs, if a user ends up disliking the conversion or even just wanting a different flavor, then the only way to avoid it is by using the unit in controller mode with another audio interface. And if you're gonna do that, then you might as well just get one of the last-gen MPC controllers.

Last edited by mp3; 18th August 2017 at 05:31 PM..
Old 18th August 2017
  #232
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
That's an opinion my friend.
It is my view on the market.

Quote:
For me its useful
Yeah, but it's not how most people would use this device.
I can guarantee you that most people would be perfectly happy with USB instead of SPDIF.

Quote:
For me,..
Yeah, yeah, for you.

Quote:
When I had an MPC 2500, I used it exclusively through digital
Again, you you you you.
Have you ever considered that other people have other workflows that do not rely on SPDIF?

None of what you do is important to akai because you will at most buy a couple of these things.
They still would need to sell it to loads of other people to make a profit and so have to consider their whishes and workflows as well.
Old 18th August 2017
  #233
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
It is my view on the market.
Right; your opinion. Fact remains there's a whole busload of gear out there (and more coming to market regularly) with digital I/O, and a whole bunch of people using that digital I/O.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Yeah, but it's not how most people would use this device.
I can guarantee you that most people would be perfectly happy with USB instead of SPDIF.
Of course. Most people are oblivious to this entire subject. They plug this output into that input and get on with it. And there's nothing wrong with that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Yeah, yeah, for you.

Again, you you you you.
Have you ever considered that other people have other workflows that do not rely on SPDIF?
Curious question coming from someone who just dismissed my workflow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
None of what you do is important to akai because you will at most buy a couple of these things.
They still would need to sell it to loads of other people to make a profit and so have to consider their whishes and workflows as well.
You're going to great lengths to put me on an island. Why? Does that somehow aid your argument? No. Does it diminsh mine? No...

I suppose I should dress my opinion up as fact and slather on a bunch of snark like you. I choose, rather, to present my opinion for what it is. Apparently that's your opening... Have at it...

edit: and adding digital I/O wouldn't take anything away from anything or anyone else, so I don't quite get what would be taken away from anyone else's workflow...
Old 18th August 2017
  #234
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
You're going to great lengths to put me on an island. Why?
Well, the discussion was about why USB instead of SPDIF and that USB was somehow not worthy.
If you want SPDIF then you're already on an island,. Maybe not alone, but most folks are on the bigger landmass.
Old 18th August 2017
  #235
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
edit: and adding digital I/O wouldn't take anything away from anything or anyone else, so I don't quite get what would be taken away from anyone else's workflow...
Yeah, that's true. I just think they didn't think it was important.
Maybe they can release an SPDIF extention through the usb host ports for all the people who want it?
Old 29th August 2017
  #236
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tdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Yeah, that's true. I just think they didn't think it was important.
Maybe they can release an SPDIF extention through the usb host ports for all the people who want it?
Lol... considering most likely the vast majority of SPDIF interfaces still made (in audio interfaces) connect over USB, I think it's highly possible.

I'm much more curious about hearing the sp1200 emulation mode.
Old 12th September 2017
  #237
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Three weeks and nothing new on the MPCX?

Ok, who's got one and loving it? Hating it? How's it sound? How are you using it? I thought after it's release there would be a thousand post by now. Do tell, I'm still looking at them. Is stand alone mode enough for the hardware guys or are you needing and enjoying 2.0? Using Keygroups?
Old 18th September 2017
  #238
Gear Nut
Someone can tell how sound this new mpc ?

Is similar to the old ones or "clean" ?
Old 19th September 2017
  #239
Gear Nut
 

Posted in the Electronic Music Forum but is there any chance of somebody from Akai stepping up here and kindly updating when we're likely to see these arrive in the UK?

Had this on preorder since early Spring and they're still not available.
Old 19th September 2017
  #240
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnintoaqueen View Post
Posted in the Electronic Music Forum but is there any chance of somebody from Akai stepping up here and kindly updating when we're likely to see these arrive in the UK?

Had this on preorder since early Spring and they're still not available.
Also in Switzerland .................
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