The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Akai Professional reigns supreme with new MPC X Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 19th January 2017
  #121
Gear Head
The S1000 was great wasn't it?! I personally loved the MPC3000 (of course cause of Roger Linn). I think the reason Mr 12tone why it has been hard for us to hold that warm feeling for akai products is because "In 2004, following a US distribution deal, the Akai Professional Musical Instrument division was acquired by Jack O'Donnell, owner of Numark Industries and Alesis. Numark, including Akai Professional, was acquired in 2012 by inMusic Brands."

Anyway I see that soon you'll reach almost 4000 posts in 3 years as a GS member so I'm sure you had a massive influence in re-shaping the company's direction moving from dongles to stand alone units like the MPC-X, maybe they are even on their way to redeem the brand. Fingers crossed! So I genuinely thank you Mr 12tone for your contribution to the industry... Keep up the good work
Old 19th January 2017
  #122
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
Drip feed marketing, they feed you features at a given pace knowing that they have the next line of features and upgrades in the pipeline, do you think for instance that Intel are giving you the fastest available processors that they can currently manufacture at consumer cost, no, why, because they don't have to, which means their next line of product is ready and waiting.

If you think that any business ever succeeded by providing its customers with the perfect product, you are quite simply, mad.
Oh my of course! In most cases sure you're right but in this case first of all I have no idea what processor the MPC-X or MPC-Live is running on. Obviously they had to buy processors in bulk and perhaps had a certain budget to spend on a CPU to begin with. That's where the limitation is of not being able to run more than 8 audio tracks with all the other features. I mean it neither can handle 3rd party VST in stand alone mode but also it doesn't have a fan (thank god). So in the end its about making compromises and you're right you can't make the perfect product as Akai is like every other company a business not a group of boutique hobbyists although it felt like that for quite a while now. I think if this MPC-X is running stable its a winner and as Mr 12tone mentioned as well Its finally something to look forward to from Akai after many many years of average products.

Anyway guys lets get back to the topic of the MPC-X here and not get carried away...
Old 19th January 2017
  #123
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdekay View Post
I have no idea what processor the MPC-X or MPC-Live is running on.
Radxa Rock2 SoM - Radxa
Old 19th January 2017
  #124
Lives for gear
 
depulse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
8 is better than none, but it wouldn't hurt to have more...I mean there are $400 HD porta Studios that have 32 tracks.

It could have given the MPC X more functionality as a stand alone full blown HD recorder/sequencer as well as a midi/sampler production hub. I don't get some of their decisions, tbh...
What is missing though are multi inputs for the Live and X to replace a digital portastudio. One would need a small external mixer.
Old 19th January 2017
  #125
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
To me the biggest omission AFAICT is not having legacy analog filters on board - maybe I'm wrong but I can't find any info on that.
There's never been an MPC with analog filters. The early S-series had analog filters (2-pole nonresonant lowpass IIRC). In my opinion MPC filters (and Akai filters in general) have never been circuits/algorithms worth emulating. I, for one, am glad they stuck with the Alesis Ion filter algorithms they used in the 5000. Those aren't world beaters either, but they're better than any filters Akai produced before the InMusic acquisition (except perhaps their AX series synths, those things have some nasty-in-a-good-way filters).
Old 19th January 2017
  #126
Lives for gear
 
depulse's Avatar
well if they implement streaming from HD or the SD card they could easily increase the number of audio tracks.

Looking at the Live and X as computer solutions away from the studio, I haven't seen anywhere if the pitch engine can also be used for automatic tuning of the recordings? Especially for vocals it would be great. Since they have a pitch manipulation engine already, making it "snap" to predefined scales wouldn't seem to be a too large step.
Old 19th January 2017
  #127
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse View Post
What is missing though are multi inputs for the Live and X to replace a digital portastudio. One would need a small external mixer.
Yeah, possibly...but that's a very specific case - as most who'd pick up this machine wouldn't necessarily be doing sessions involving multiple inputs for tracking I assume (like a whole band at once), but in a production environment where you're building up tracks individually to replicate a real rhythm section one by one, or just to have the ability to have multiple analog tracks one could record onto, for whatever reason - 8 tracks is very stifling.

It's extremely shortsighted to limit it to 8, when the mere nuance of coding would open it up to more tracks, really without any effort. It was obviously a conscious decision on Akai's part to have 8 tracks, when it would have been just as easy to have 32 or 64 for that matter.
Old 19th January 2017
  #128
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
There's never been an MPC with analog filters. The early S-series had analog filters (2-pole nonresonant lowpass IIRC). In my opinion MPC filters (and Akai filters in general) have never been circuits/algorithms worth emulating. I, for one, am glad they stuck with the Alesis Ion filter algorithms they used in the 5000. Those aren't world beaters either, but they're better than any filters Akai produced before the InMusic acquisition (except perhaps their AX series synths, those things have some nasty-in-a-good-way filters).
I know they wouldn't have done this, but I would have paid whatever extra cost if they had implemented some sort of technology to be able to use cartridges for various filter modules - so you could swap in and out Moog ladder filters, S612, S950, etc...such technoligy does exist, and would be something that sets apart any newer MPC variants over competitive choices like Push 2 or Maschine Studio.

If Akai really wants to make a statement, they need to shoot for the stars, because short of that. all they're really doing is putting a finger in the dyke - they're going to get leapfrogged...not a matter of if, but when...
Old 19th January 2017
  #129
Lives for gear
 
ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Yeah, possibly...but that's a very specific case - as most who'd pick up this machine wouldn't necessarily be doing sessions involving multiple inputs for tracking I assume (like a whole band at once), but in a production environment where you're building up tracks individually to replicate a real rhythm section one by one, or just to have the ability to have multiple analog tracks one could record onto, for whatever reason - 8 tracks is very stifling.

It's extremely shortsighted to limit it to 8, when the mere nuance of coding would open it up to more tracks, really without any effort. It was obviously a conscious decision on Akai's part to have 8 tracks, when it would have been just as easy to have 32 or 64 for that matter.
That's not how software development works. One cannot write something that can execute infinite amount of processing in a limited hardware system. To imply that Akai could have done so and arbitrarily chose 8 is just flat out wrong and unfair.

Now, the beta tester has said that this limitation will soon not be the limit at all and it's really nothing to worry about. When that occurs, we don't know. Why the limit now and the increased capacity later? They probably got too far down the development cycle before thinking of another way to do it that allowed for many more tracks, but to go back and test the functionality and regression test everything else would have delayed the product launch.

But please don't imply that Akai just pulled this number out of the air and it wouldn't take any effort to change that capacity with a little code. You obviously have never been involved in the development of decent-sized software systems if you truly believe what you wrote. And if you do believe it, you're flat out wrong.
Old 19th January 2017
  #130
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
But please don't imply that Akai just pulled this number out of the air and it wouldn't take any effort to change that capacity with a little code. You obviously have never been involved in the development of decent-sized software systems if you truly believe what you wrote. And if you do believe it, you're flat out wrong.
No...the wanton ineptness displayed by Akai of late would not in the least preclude what i stated about them that you're replying to.

I say again, the biggest credit I might give them so far is to not name it 'MPC Wolf'...short of that, they deserve scrutiny until the sh*t's released, and even at that they're fumbling it by the leaks that 2.0 isn't even finalized.

It's cool if you have high expectations, but given recent track record that's being mighty optimistic...something I doubt you'd bet your house on, seriously I'd doubt you'd bet your house on a successful and seamless launch.

But that's besides the point - where I raise doubts, you instantly defend...for what? Hope and a desire that they won't eff' it up like they've been consistently doing of late? Or are you implying they've been killing it of late?

Again, I'm not bashing them per se, only talking about what could have been better here and there, in my own subjective valuations...I just don't get how you can just jump in and repudiate me given their recent history.

OK - have high hopes, but anything I said are legitimate concerns, no?
Old 19th January 2017
  #131
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
and would be something that sets apart any newer MPC variants over competitive choices like Push 2 or Maschine Studio.
So you do compare them?
Old 19th January 2017
  #132
is there any videos of the MPC X that showcases it as a MPC sample drum machine rather than rihanna plus a razor blade?
Old 19th January 2017
  #133
Lives for gear
 
ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
No...the wanton ineptness displayed by Akai of late would not in the least preclude what i stated about them that you're replying to.

I say again, the biggest credit I might give them so far is to not name it 'MPC Wolf'...short of that, they deserve scrutiny until the sh*t's released, and even at that they're fumbling it by the leaks that 2.0 isn't even finalized.

It's cool if you have high expectations, but given recent track record that's being mighty optimistic...something I doubt you'd bet your house on, seriously I'd doubt you'd bet your house on a successful and seamless launch.

But that's besides the point - where I raise doubts, you instantly defend...for what? Hope and a desire that they won't eff' it up like they've been consistently doing of late? Or are you implying they've been killing it of late?

Again, I'm not bashing them per se, only talking about what could have been better here and there, in my own subjective valuations...I just don't get how you can just jump in and repudiate me given their recent history.

OK - have high hopes, but anything I said are legitimate concerns, no?
I'm not defending them by any means. Only a handful of people have actually gotten their hands on this thing. No one knows the true workflow, how buggy it is, the timing and jitter on the sequencer, etc.

What I have an issue with is your claim that they could have easily upped the number of audio tracks to 32 or 64 or an insanely high number with no or just a little code.
Old 19th January 2017
  #134
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
I'm not defending them by any means. Only a handful of people have actually gotten their hands on this thing. No one knows the true workflow, how buggy it is, the timing and jitter on the sequencer, etc.

What I have an issue with is your claim that they could have easily upped the number of audio tracks to 32 or 64 or an insanely high number with no or just a little code.
Amen!

apparently this is the CPU being used : Radxa Rock2 SoM - Radxa
Old 19th January 2017
  #135
Lives for gear
 
El-Burrito's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
It's extremely shortsighted to limit it to 8, when the mere nuance of coding would open it up to more tracks, really without any effort. It was obviously a conscious decision on Akai's part to have 8 tracks, when it would have been just as easy to have 32 or 64 for that matter.
Yes. They had executive meeting in Akai where they decided to drop audio tracks from 128 to 8, just to annoy one GS member.

In reality these things go like this:
CEO: How many tracks it can run due NAMM?
Engineer: Max 4.
CEO:Make it at least 8 and we will release update later when we have optimized to code to run more than 8 tracks.

They are rushing it to the market. It might be buggy due that. But they wanted it to this NAMM. In last NAMM they previewed 2.0 that was really buggy at the time.

You also can't see the big picture. Every track has 4 inserts. So every added audio tracks adds four potential plugins that it needs to run. Add 64 audio tracks and it would need to be able to run 256 reverbs more. That is not trivial to do. Most DAW's struggle with 256 reverbs.
Old 19th January 2017
  #136
Lives for gear
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I, for one, am glad they stuck with the Alesis Ion filter algorithms they used in the 5000. Those aren't world beaters either, but they're better than any filters Akai produced before the InMusic acquisition.
My opinion: Those are the best filters to ever find their way onto a sampler. Even E-mu reduced the Z-Plane filters before they trickled down to the samplers.
Old 19th January 2017
  #137
Why do people want more audio tracks? This isn't a multitrack recorder. If you want a multitrack recorder, buy one.
Old 19th January 2017
  #138
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
Yes. They had executive meeting in Akai where they decided to drop audio tracks from 128 to 8, just to annoy one GS member.

In reality these things go like this:
CEO: How many tracks it can run due NAMM?
Engineer: Max 4.
CEO:Make it at least 8 and we will release update later when we have optimized to code to run more than 8 tracks.

They are rushing it to the market. It might be buggy due that. But they wanted it to this NAMM. In last NAMM they previewed 2.0 that was really buggy at the time.

You also can't see the big picture. Every track has 4 inserts. So every added audio tracks adds four potential plugins that it needs to run. Add 64 audio tracks and it would need to be able to run 256 reverbs more. That is not trivial to do. Most DAW's struggle with 256 reverbs.
This is exactly how it went down. There is a Q&A video on youtube and the guy said that it's 8 for now, but soon, we wouldn't have to worry about only having 8 tracks. He might have gotten in trouble with Akai.
Old 19th January 2017
  #139
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdekay View Post
So you do compare them?
Yes, in my case if I have Push2, Maschine Studio and MPC X, there is a lot of redundancy between those three, and I'd make qualitative decisions on how I'd use each in what capacity and so forth.

But, specific to what you're referencing, I was talking broadly about the competition between those three units, which is for real...and yes, I do believe if Akai implemented a swappable-cartridge filter technology, that would distinguish itself from the other two. Wouldn't you agree?
Old 19th January 2017
  #140
Lives for gear
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihearanewworld View Post
Why do people want more audio tracks? This isn't a multitrack recorder. If you want a multitrack recorder, buy one.
I could understand a couple tracks: Use the MPC to track out your drums and synths, and then record a vocal track and/or a guitar track. Stuff like that is handy. But more than eight would just defeat the purpose of a workstation like this, I think.

You could extend the number of tracks with some trickery, though: Record a track and then move that track to a sample playback. On my MPC1000, I'll use the MPC to track out drums, and then record two tracks of rhythm guitar, a bass, and a lead part as needed this way.
Old 19th January 2017
  #141
News Desk Editor
 
The Press Desk's Avatar
 

Old 19th January 2017
  #142
Lives for gear
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
if Akai implemented a swappable-cartridge filter technology, that would distinguish itself from the other two. Wouldn't you agree?
Distinguish? Yes. Would it be a good idea, though? Probably not. Studio Electronics applied that design to the ATC-1's. They don't move nearly as many of those as they do the SE-1's and Boomstars, and in fact, they did away with the cartridges by replacing the ATC-1 with the ATC-Xi. The SE-1's on the other hand, even though sharing a similar design, are still being manufactured and sold despite having only one filter.
Old 20th January 2017
  #143
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
My opinion: Those are the best filters to ever find their way onto a sampler. Even E-mu reduced the Z-Plane filters before they trickled down to the samplers.
Well, there are the early EMU samplers with SSM filters, but in the digital realm, I prefer the Roland S-7xx filter (I believe the same as used in the JD800/990) and the Yamaha A-series filter (same filter as the EX5/7 and AN series). But yeah, the 5000 and MPC SW filter is solid.
Old 20th January 2017
  #144
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Yes, in my case if I have Push2, Maschine Studio and MPC X, there is a lot of redundancy between those three, and I'd make qualitative decisions on how I'd use each in what capacity and so forth.

But, specific to what you're referencing, I was talking broadly about the competition between those three units, which is for real...and yes, I do believe if Akai implemented a swappable-cartridge filter technology, that would distinguish itself from the other two. Wouldn't you agree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat
Old 20th January 2017
  #145
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringostar View Post
..hey now:
Old 20th January 2017
  #146
Lives for gear
 

has any kind of USB to S/PDIF adapter been announced?
Old 21st January 2017
  #147
Quote:
Originally Posted by cube66 View Post
Sampling without computer? Is this a expensive dongle for MPC 2.0 software?
Yo can use the software without the mpc, but you need to buy it to have the soft ... Yes, some kind of expensive "license"
Old 21st January 2017
  #148
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
That's not how software development works. One cannot write something that can execute infinite amount of processing in a limited hardware system. To imply that Akai could have done so and arbitrarily chose 8 is just flat out wrong and unfair.

Now, the beta tester has said that this limitation will soon not be the limit at all and it's really nothing to worry about. When that occurs, we don't know. Why the limit now and the increased capacity later? They probably got too far down the development cycle before thinking of another way to do it that allowed for many more tracks, but to go back and test the functionality and regression test everything else would have delayed the product launch.

But please don't imply that Akai just pulled this number out of the air and it wouldn't take any effort to change that capacity with a little code. You obviously have never been involved in the development of decent-sized software systems if you truly believe what you wrote. And if you do believe it, you're flat out wrong.
Except that this is a closed system, where you and only you have to worry about resource usage, vs. a general purpose DAW on a PC where you're contending with a myriad of sub-systems, APIs, and sys "rules" that have nothing to do whatsoever with your software.

In reality, there was a cost-conscious decision to leave out the extra analog tracks, with the assumption that the intended audience is beatmakers and electronic music producers, who very likely told them through focus groups and market research that 8 tracks is more than enough.
Old 21st January 2017
  #149
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I could understand a couple tracks: Use the MPC to track out your drums and synths, and then record a vocal track and/or a guitar track. Stuff like that is handy. But more than eight would just defeat the purpose of a workstation like this, I think.

You could extend the number of tracks with some trickery, though: Record a track and then move that track to a sample playback. On my MPC1000, I'll use the MPC to track out drums, and then record two tracks of rhythm guitar, a bass, and a lead part as needed this way.
Or bounce down to stereo, freeing up 6 tracks, like we did in the 8-track cassette days of yore.
Old 21st January 2017
  #150
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Except that this is a closed system, where you and only you have to worry about resource usage, vs. a general purpose DAW on a PC where you're contending with a myriad of sub-systems, APIs, and sys "rules" that have nothing to do whatsoever with your software.

In reality, there was a cost-conscious decision to leave out the extra analog tracks, with the assumption that the intended audience is beatmakers and electronic music producers, who very likely told them through focus groups and market research that 8 tracks is more than enough.
Yes, this is nonsense, it runs Linux, yes it is optimised, but compared to the brute force power an X64 processor is able to throw at what you can do on a desktop, even after contending with your myriad of sub systems, you probably just made the most ridiculous comparison possible !!
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump