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Akai Professional reigns supreme with new MPC X Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 13th January 2017
  #61
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That's pretty cool!
Old 13th January 2017
  #62
I'm liking the idea here..4 midi outs..
8 audio track (8 stereo tracks i guess),
sampling..oled scribble strips under the pots...
clip launching...
cv gate
hooks up to a turntable, mic in with phantom power and instrument line in...
BIG 10inch touch screen
and with also work as a controller if you hook it up to a computer running their software too.

nice.
Old 13th January 2017
  #63
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
meh...

If they really wanted it to be powerful, they would have made it open ended, instead of some BS integration with specific content providers.

BS...

Air compared to if they'd allow for full VST integration, you're talking like Washington Generals vs the Globetrotters...

f#cking weak if you ask me...
So they should have included a CPU that's compatible with current VST standards and then open themselves up to all kinds of people complaining when the sequencer timing goes to hell because people have two versions of Diva running?

Do you want an MPC or a DAW? Because all kinds of DAWs exist. MPC's are about the sequencer and the timing.

And as mentioned, you can run all those VSTs when connected to the computer, just not standalone. Hell, hook the thing up to a computer, use your VSTs and create up to 8 audio tracks to use in your project when running in standalone mode.
Old 13th January 2017
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
So they should have included a CPU that's compatible with current VST standards and then open themselves up to all kinds of people complaining when the sequencer timing goes to hell because people have two versions of Diva running?

Do you want an MPC or a DAW? Because all kinds of DAWs exist. MPC's are about the sequencer and the timing.

And as mentioned, you can run all those VSTs when connected to the computer, just not standalone. Hell, hook the thing up to a computer, use your VSTs and create up to 8 audio tracks to use in your project when running in standalone mode.
First - I like the MPC X. It looks awesome. There are many things about it I like and think are great.

I was commenting on someone getting excited over some Air plugs being incuded in the stand alone mode:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuXx View Post
See this is what Im talking about! If there are versions of the Air instruments built in and available for use in stand alone mode, that gets me very excited!!!
My point being, it would be have been incredible if it could host VSTs in stand alone. That there are some Air plugs - to me is not so exciting... if VSTs, that'd be exciting.

I'm not bashing it per se other than that. So I'm sorry if folks got offended, no offense intended.
Old 13th January 2017
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
First - I like the MPC X. It looks awesome. There are many things about it I like and think are great.

I was commenting on someone getting excited over some Air plugs being incuded in the stand alone mode:


My point being, it would be have been incredible if it could host VSTs in stand alone. That there are some Air plugs - to me is not so exciting... if VSTs, that'd be exciting.

I'm not bashing it per se other than that. So I'm sorry if folks got offended, no offense intended.
And my point being that it actually wouldn't, because then people would be using all the CPU inside the unit to process these VSTs and causing timing, etc. to all go to garbage.

OK, actually that may be cool. A bunch of people would buy it new, think it sucks and sell it barely used on the cheap.

I say we petition to get this included ASAP!
Old 13th January 2017
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
And my point being that it actually wouldn't, because then people would be using all the CPU inside the unit to process these VSTs and causing timing, etc. to all go to garbage.

OK, actually that may be cool. A bunch of people would buy it new, think it sucks and sell it barely used on the cheap.

I say we petition to get this included ASAP!
Don't know man. It would be weak if timing issues occurred because of heavy lifting on the CPU's part. The fact a machine can be run in stand alone means it's basically a computer with a streamlined self contained OS. If what you say is true, then the coding is suspect, and that wouldn't be a good sign.

I'd see it like this - if it did have VST host functionality, it could theoretically be used (in addition to all that it does) as sort of like mini Receptor, where one could use it to help offload CPU power from the DAW. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Its usefulness in stand alone mode would be obvious.
Old 13th January 2017
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Don't know man. It would be weak if timing issues occurred because of heavy lifting on the CPU's part. The fact a machine can be run in stand alone means it's basically a computer with a streamlined self contained OS. If what you say is true, then the coding is suspect, and that wouldn't be a good sign.

I'd see it like this - if it did have VST host functionality, it could theoretically be used (in addition to all that it does) as sort of like mini Receptor, where one could use it to help offload CPU power from the DAW. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Its usefulness in stand alone mode would be obvious.
As a software developer for twenty five years, I can say with confidence that open systems where you're relying on others to code things that will run in your system only open your system up to performance problems. Inability or lack of desire on Akai's part to allow for third party applications that could potentially be resource hogs, and eventually reflect poorly on Akai is completely understandable to me.

Sure, they could spec the hell out of it to support current VSTs, but then you're looking at potentially pricing many people out of ever owning one. And even with a massive spec'd MPC, that's no guarantee that future VSTs that are taking advantage of higher and higher spec'd computers then don't cause issues with the MPC.

Closing the system as they've done ensures only things Akai says won't cause potential issues.

And, the above only stands true for the standalone mode. When connected to the computer, you can use VSTs until your heart is content. Add them to your program, record the audio of the VST to a stem, then use the stem when working in standalone again. The only thing you'd really be lacking in standalone mode with the above is real-time manipulation of the synth parameters.
Old 13th January 2017
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
And, the above only stands true for the standalone mode. When connected to the computer, you can use VSTs until your heart is content. Add them to your program, record the audio of the VST to a stem, then use the stem when working in standalone again. The only thing you'd really be lacking in standalone mode with the above is real-time manipulation of the synth parameters.
Well, that would depend on workflow and other considerations.

One might not want to commit midi data to stems; i.e. if there is a lot of variable CC data that one might want to still play around with, if the ideas aren't fully realized, possible other myriad considerations, etc...

all I know was, in the various discussions about future release of a stand alone MPC leading up eventually to this one, the notion of VST hosting was often brought up (maybe it was just wishful thinking from certain interested parties, who knows...).

Again, my mention was specifically in reference to a person excited about a 3rd party add-on that would run in stand alone, of which I assume is a port from already existing VSTs...thus I didn't think it's totally inconceivable that VST hosting was possible.

I don't mean to begrudge your coding expertise, but if the MPC X had that functionality, it would be attractive to a lot of folks I would imagine. As to cost prohibitiveness, wouldn't that just be the R&D involved, as there's no added physical cost?

It ain't a big deal, in any case, if I were considering this unit, whether it had the ability to host VSTs or not would not be a prime determinant for purchase whatsoever...
Old 14th January 2017
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Well, that would depend on workflow and other considerations.

One might not want to commit midi data to stems; i.e. if there is a lot of variable CC data that one might want to still play around with, if the ideas aren't fully realized, possible other myriad considerations, etc...

I don't mean to begrudge your coding expertise, but if the MPC X had that functionality, it would be attractive to a lot of folks I would imagine. As to cost prohibitiveness, wouldn't that just be the R&D involved, as there's no added physical cost?
It's understandable, and it would provide a lot more functionality to have VST hosting at your fingertips in standalone mode. And my workaround is certainly limited. I agree on that.

You can take a group of the finest software engineers ever, write the tightest code there is, but you're still going to run up against a situation where the hardware just isn't capable of running the software well given the hardware limitations. Akai has obviously balanced what they think is the functionality desired with the potential cost of the hardware and implementation of the software. Akai has no control over future VST and resource requirements if they allow for standalone VST hosting. They have no control over the amount of VSTs used as sends, synth sounds, etc. without potentially affecting the max CPU requirements. And this doesn't even get into the potential of allowing a VST such as Kontakt and its libraries and the RAM requirements for those libraries.

So why not just up the hardware specs then so they can handle all of the current, hungriest VSTs out there at the moment and then some? Cost. And there's really no way to estimate how CPU hungry or RAM hungry VSTs are going to get in the future.
Old 14th January 2017
  #70
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As a current owner of Open Labs Mikko and Muse Research Quattro systems, I can't imagine folks like Akai, Roland, Korg, etc EVER offering stand alone vst programs in their hardware....There is too much variance from plugin to plugin to standardize anything...The plugin manufacturer would have to recode their plugin to work in say, a Korg.....And, It would only work in the Korg.....Not much incentive for the amount of work it would take....The Open Labs is basically a windows computer in a keyboard....I like it a lot except it's old (windows XP) but it's still pretty much like working on a regular PC....It doesn't feel anything like working on a dedicated hardware keyboard where everything is a button push away....The Muse is even worse...I had them install the plugins I was going to use at the factory and it still took me an evening to figure out how to get them authorized...Not straight forward in the least...I've got a lot of plugs in it but mainly use Komplete 9 Ultimate and Omnisphere....It IS nice having my favorite Omnisphere patches a button click away now but you have to set all that up ahead of time....These 2 units were what I considered the best vst stand alone solutions and I can tell you first hand neither one is what I would call an elegant solution....I had an MPC 2000 Studio version back in the day....There's something to be said about simply turning hardware on and your off working just like that...I say enjoy it for what it is...moon

EDIT - Didn't want to quote anyone....Sorry about that.....
Old 14th January 2017
  #71
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonMusic View Post
The Open Labs is basically a windows computer in a keyboard....I like it a lot except it's old (windows XP) but it's still pretty much like working on a regular PC....It doesn't feel anything like working on a dedicated hardware keyboard where everything is a button push away....I had an MPC 2000 Studio version back in the day....There's something to be said about simply turning hardware on and your off working just like that...I say enjoy it for what it is...moon

EDIT - Didn't want to quote anyone....Sorry about that.....
From the video attached it is safe to say Akai considered the option of a Windows OS standalone MPC but probably for the very reasons you gave with the Mikko decided against it. Check out the date stamp. Skip to around 23 mins 5 sec for the relevant info.


Last edited by KimGitz; 14th January 2017 at 05:55 AM..
Old 14th January 2017
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
From the video attached it is safe to say Akai considered the option of a Windows OS standalone MPC but probably for the very reasons you gave with the Mikko decided against it. Check out the date stamp.
The best solution for using software in a hardware type environment I've used to date has been NI maschine and the Komplete K61 keyboard with Komplete 9 Ultimate on my Mac Pro...Even with all that, for the best experience, you need to stay within the NI NKS environment for quick browsing....The second you want to add a third party plugin to the track, your grabbing a mouse....Not a complete deal breaker but it instantly changes the workflow....I'm glad to see from that video, they decided to ditch windows OS....I honestly don't believe people would enjoy the complicated workflow it would create....Sometimes less is more!....moon
Old 14th January 2017
  #73
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In Akai defense after they came out with the Ren, there was a large uproar regarding the lack of a standalone mode. They gave it to you and now folks wants the Mpc to be a full-on computer, complaining about vst access in standalone mode. You guys want it all.
Old 14th January 2017
  #74
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shalimo View Post
In Akai defense after they came out with the Ren, there was a large uproar regarding the lack of a standalone mode. They gave it to you and now folks wants the Mpc to be a full-on computer, complaining about vst access in standalone mode. You guys want it all.
Very likely not the same people complaining about those 2 things.
Old 14th January 2017
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalimo View Post
In Akai defense after they came out with the Ren, there was a large uproar regarding the lack of a standalone mode. They gave it to you and now folks wants the Mpc to be a full-on computer, complaining about vst access in standalone mode. You guys want it all.
Yo, slow your roll...if it's me you're referring to, I qualified everything I was saying.

Not really complaining about anything...and who the f+ck said anything about wanting a full on computer?
Old 14th January 2017
  #76
Deleted 86c3d96
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Any release date? I assume 2018-19 time frame?
Old 14th January 2017
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 86c3d96 View Post
Any release date? I assume 2018-19 time frame?
Optimist?

J/K...I think there's generally too much Akai bashing of late, I mean we should applaud them this time, after all it wasn't named "MPC Wolf".
Old 14th January 2017
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 86c3d96 View Post
any release date? I assume 2018-19 time frame?
q1 2017
Old 14th January 2017
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalimo View Post
In Akai defense after they came out with the Ren, there was a large uproar regarding the lack of a standalone mode. They gave it to you and now folks wants the Mpc to be a full-on computer, complaining about vst access in standalone mode. You guys want it all.
i was hoping itd run vsts because mpc software can host vsts and akai are missleading people saying you can run mpc in standalone because you cant.

ok you get the basic features but i use mpc software and akais mpc softwares fx plugins are crap.so what got me intrested was the hope it could host my own plugins which i use in mpc when im not hooked up to my pc.

i cant understand why they couldnt in some way..it has a usb port and the processor is good enough too run some vsts.i use a £40 windows tablet and it runs vsts and even cubase le and ableton live i just goto my accounts i have from companys ive bought stuff from and if they have an exe file ill download that and install it or put it on a usb stick hook that up and install from that and it works..it even allows me too hook up my maschine controller or usb keyboard.

its got way less power and ram than these new akai products so it shows it could be done.

so akai need to point out that in standalone mode it only allows basic functionality compared to hooking it to your computer.

i was very intrested in buying akai live but finding out it cant host vsts standalone means ill pass ill just stick with what i have or maybe get a akai touch when that drops in price.
Old 14th January 2017
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwaxxy View Post
i was hoping itd run vsts because mpc software can host vsts and akai are missleading people saying you can run mpc in standalone because you cant.

ok you get the basic features but i use mpc software and akais mpc softwares fx plugins are crap.so what got me intrested was the hope it could host my own plugins which i use in mpc when im not hooked up to my pc.

i cant understand why they couldnt in some way..it has a usb port and the processor is good enough too run some vsts.i use a £40 windows tablet and it runs vsts and even cubase le and ableton live i just goto my accounts i have from companys ive bought stuff from and if they have an exe file ill download that and install it or put it on a usb stick hook that up and install from that and it works..it even allows me too hook up my maschine controller or usb keyboard.

its got way less power and ram than these new akai products so it shows it could be done.

so akai need to point out that in standalone mode it only allows basic functionality compared to hooking it to your computer.

i was very intrested in buying akai live but finding out it cant host vsts standalone means ill pass ill just stick with what i have or maybe get a akai touch when that drops in price.
I don't think it's misleading at all. The software can run VSTs because it does so using the processor and RAM of the computer.

Your tablet has a different processor in it such that VSTs don't have to be recompiled to run on it. And I'm sure it can't run nearly as many as a full blown computer.

It's been pretty clear from the videos starting to come out that it can't run VSTs in standalone mode. There are workarounds available as stated here and in the latest sonicstate video on the Live.

If you have to have VST functionality in standalone mode and the workarounds don't work for you, then this isn't for you. Ironic that you'd rather have the Touch though as you can do everything you can with the Touch with either the Live or X, and more.
Old 15th January 2017
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Yo, slow your roll...if it's me you're referring to, I qualified everything I was saying.

Not really complaining about anything...and who the f+ck said anything about wanting a full on computer?
Dude relax it's a friendly conversation, we all acknowledge that u are king bad ass, now go seat down somewhere and cut back on the drugs.
Old 15th January 2017
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwaxxy View Post
i was hoping itd run vsts because mpc software can host vsts and akai are missleading people saying you can run mpc in standalone because you cant.

ok you get the basic features but i use mpc software and akais mpc softwares fx plugins are crap.so what got me intrested was the hope it could host my own plugins which i use in mpc when im not hooked up to my pc.

i cant understand why they couldnt in some way..it has a usb port and the processor is good enough too run some vsts.i use a £40 windows tablet and it runs vsts and even cubase le and ableton live i just goto my accounts i have from companys ive bought stuff from and if they have an exe file ill download that and install it or put it on a usb stick hook that up and install from that and it works..it even allows me too hook up my maschine controller or usb keyboard.

its got way less power and ram than these new akai products so it shows it could be done.

so akai need to point out that in standalone mode it only allows basic functionality compared to hooking it to your computer.

i was very intrested in buying akai live but finding out it cant host vsts standalone means ill pass ill just stick with what i have or maybe get a akai touch when that drops in price.
I get you, but I doubt the new Mpc's will do this since their proprietary and not window base, good luck.
Old 15th January 2017
  #83
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logic in a box
Old 15th January 2017
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalimo View Post
I get you, but I doubt the new Mpc's will do this since their proprietary and not window base, good luck.
yeah your right mate..i thought it was windows based because akai showed protypes off ages ago and they ran on a windows system so that would have allowed vsts to be ran but i cant find any info on what os this has.

real shame and a missed opertunity.

why i think akai are misleading people is the way too get the best out of the mpc software is to use 3rd party plugins and akai give you the air collection which includes hybrid 3..etc they are superb plugins i use them all the time..but for me itd be frustrating if in standalone mode you get a beat gooing your getting into your creative groove then you realise to take it too the next level you have to wait until you can get home to start laying down your keyboard parts :(

ive used akai mpcs/samplers for years and i love them to bits there fast,reliable,sound excellent and i know these will be good but for the type of music i do now and the fact it wont host vsts then im out i was hoping it could run akai vip 2.0 i use that and its brilliant and too have the ability to use this with my advance keyboard in standalone would be a dream come true

but if funds are good this year ill get myself the akai touch if a price drop happens if it doesnt then its no biggie i have a load of drum pad controllers in my studio my wife says i have to many but she doesnt understand each controller feels and works differently
Old 15th January 2017
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwaxxy View Post
why i think akai are misleading people is the way too get the best out of the mpc software is to use 3rd party plugins and akai give you the air collection which includes hybrid 3..etc they are superb plugins i use them all the time..but for me itd be frustrating if in standalone mode you get a beat gooing your getting into your creative groove then you realise to take it too the next level you have to wait until you can get home to start laying down your keyboard parts :(
I'm not sure what the sampling is like on the new MPC but the last stand alone I owned was a Roland MV-8800...It was incredibly easy and quick to make a VST soundset sample library on that thing...Anyway, if the new MPC has similar capabilities and it should because it's a sampler, you could sample the hybrid library and have it on the go....When you get back home, switch the track from internal to midi and record the actual VST for the best sonic quality....That's what I used to do....Pretty much every musical product you will ever buy takes time to set up for each individuals use...Nothing is tailored for one individual right out of the box....That would be nice though........moon
Old 15th January 2017
  #86
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Originally Posted by MoonMusic View Post
I'm not sure what the sampling is like on the new MPC but the last stand alone I owned was a Roland MV-8800...It was incredibly easy and quick to make a VST soundset sample library on that thing...Anyway, if the new MPC has similar capabilities and it should because it's a sampler, you could sample the hybrid library and have it on the go....When you get back home, switch the track from internal to midi and record the actual VST for the best sonic quality....That's what I used to do....Pretty much every musical product you will ever buy takes time to set up for each individuals use...Nothing is tailored for one individual right out of the box....That would be nice though........moon
ive had a few akai samplers and mpc products and sampling is very easy and quick too do.yep you could do what you say and sample the hybrid 3 sound libary but it would be pretty pointless and take too long because theres thousands out presets within hybrid 3 and youd lose the functionality of using hybrid 3 so as i say itd be very frustrating too use.

it seems a massive missed oppertunity the new akais have a lot of midi/cv capabiltys and too have all that and vip 2.0 in a standalone product would be mindblowing.

i still think the new akai mpc range are very good especially if your a hiphop dj just sampling records thats were standalone will be a hit but for dance music it will perform best as a drum machine or combine it with a dj set up and itd be excellent but for what i want ill get the touch or wait till i get more info and proper reviews on how it works in standalone.

not much infos around on the midi sequencing in standalone id be very intrested in knowing more about that if anyone has any ino on that please
Old 15th January 2017
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Yo, slow your roll...if it's me you're referring to, I qualified everything I was saying.

Not really complaining about anything...and who the f+ck said anything about wanting a full on computer?
I thnik hes referring to everyone wanting it to do a million things like run VSTs n things like that. I just want a stable MPC.
Old 16th January 2017
  #88
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Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I thnik hes referring to everyone wanting it to do a million things like run VSTs n things like that. I just want a stable MPC.
I don't doubt that, but when Bernie Madoff tell you to chill...well, that reflexively moves you to taken aback mode, you know what I mean?

Not to mention the ESL misspellings, and the smug drug reference...too bad there's not an internet kick 'em in the booty app, like Smell-O-Vision, but instead there's like a big ass Timberland boot with a reinforced toe area at the ready to give a swift kick at the other end, once the trigger is sent...
Old 16th January 2017
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
As a software developer for twenty five years, I can say with confidence that open systems where you're relying on others to code things that will run in your system only open your system up to performance problems. Inability or lack of desire on Akai's part to allow for third party applications that could potentially be resource hogs, and eventually reflect poorly on Akai is completely understandable to me.

Sure, they could spec the hell out of it to support current VSTs, but then you're looking at potentially pricing many people out of ever owning one. And even with a massive spec'd MPC, that's no guarantee that future VSTs that are taking advantage of higher and higher spec'd computers then don't cause issues with the MPC.

Closing the system as they've done ensures only things Akai says won't cause potential issues.

And, the above only stands true for the standalone mode. When connected to the computer, you can use VSTs until your heart is content. Add them to your program, record the audio of the VST to a stem, then use the stem when working in standalone again. The only thing you'd really be lacking in standalone mode with the above is real-time manipulation of the synth parameters.
Please, you are way off the mark, MPC live, MPC X, then a year or so down the road MPC XXL "Wow, look at us, we have VST in our new mega expensive standalone now" it has nothing to do with instability, it has everything to do with drip feed marketing.
Good luck to them, i have no idea why so many people are screaming for VST support anyway, just put a computer next to it.
Old 17th January 2017
  #90
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I'll get mine in 2020 when the bugs get worked out
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