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Toneboosters releases Morphit - Headphone correction plug-in Studio Headphones
Old 4th January 2017
  #61
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Benj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Rose View Post
Yes I did. But the problem with the m50x preset is that it doesn't remove enough 10k...it's not actually adding any. The headphones are just too bright to begin with, so backing off the effect gives you even more 10k. It does add top end at other frequencies, however, so it might sound less bright overall if you back off the effect. But you're gonna have too much 10k unless you push it past 100%, at which point the rest of the curve is gonna sound pretty bad.
Have you tried customizing the M50x preset in the custom mode? You could try cutting at 10K with a bell and see if it gets you any closer to what you're looking for.
Old 4th January 2017
  #62
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
Have you tried customizing the M50x preset in the custom mode? You could try cutting at 10K with a bell and see if it gets you any closer to what you're looking for.
Yes. That's what I would recommend people do if they're using morphit with m50x's. I also brought the low shelf up slightly, as I felt morphit took away a bit too much sub range.
Old 4th January 2017
  #63
Gear Maniac
 

I have the sonarworks plug for my sony 7506 headset...seems to "work" in that the "snotty" highend is tamed and the low end drop off is brought up...sonarworks talk about how/where the correction curves come from...any clue for the TB.morphit curves?...nothing in/on the docs or website.../s~
Old 5th January 2017
  #64
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveGS View Post
I have the sonarworks plug for my sony 7506 headset...seems to "work" in that the "snotty" highend is tamed and the low end drop off is brought up...sonarworks talk about how/where the correction curves come from...any clue for the TB.morphit curves?...nothing in/on the docs or website.../s~
Surely they have some method of measuring the frequency response of headphones, and that's where their curves come from. To be fair, I don't believe sonarworks actually describe what their measurement process is like either.
Old 5th January 2017
  #65
Gear Maniac
 

...sonarworks pretty clearly describes the process they use if you send them your individual cans, so I am assuming the process is the same for the ones they list in their "generic" selection at +/-3db...could not find anything for the TB stuff...which sounds distinctly different from the SW version.../s~
Old 6th January 2017
  #66
For fun, I tried Morphit with a pair of AKG K240's. I usually don't mix with these because to my ears, K240's sound muddy in the lows, and and i find the high end to be ill defined as well. On corrective mode, Morphit really tightened up the lows, got rid of the mud, and cleaned up the high end. A pretty amazing change really. Now, it was almost a bit too much on the high end for me, so I backed off the mix to 75%, and these cans really sound nice to me now. Good work TB!

I also tried the simulation mode, but none of the models I picked sounded as good as the corrective mode. I guess I would use simulation mode simply to hear rough approximations on other headphones. Perhaps simulation mode would work better with higher quality headphones than these 240's.
Old 7th January 2017
  #67
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bgood's Avatar
So... Bottom line me...

Does this replace sonar works for mixing with cans?
Old 7th January 2017
  #68
Gear Nut
 

All of these products should provide a preset for the supported headphones that reproduce the Harmon target response curve.

Sean Olive has done AES presentations about this research, and Tyl (along with some help from Bob Katz) over at innerfidelity.com, has done a good job of publicizing - and illustrating - with frequency response plots - how various headphones do/don't match this. It does not look like it is a coincidence (from listening tests, etc.), that the more "accurate" sounding headphones appear to match the Harmon response curves (in any price range).

I may be summarizing this incorrectly, but the Harmon response curve(s) model the frequency response of the sound reaching the ear in a well controlled studio environment. And even if that summary is off, the point is the target is not a flat frequency response. Hence, if you are forcing headphones to have a flat frequency response you are not going to reproduce accurate monitoring conditions in a well engineered room at the listening position. Or to put it another way, there are headphones which out of the box already come close to matching the Harmon target response curves; force them to be flat - and in addition to probably undoing the designers intentions, you will not be getting closer to an accurate sound field.

I don't doubt that using these plugins to set a flat response in headphones may sound preferable to what folks can achieve in project studios and/or non-acoustically engineered rooms when monitoring through less than full range monitors. But that does not mean you are getting an accurate representation of what things really sound like with headphones.

I tried the Sonarworks plugin with some high end (already pretty accurate) headphones and high quality headphone amplifiers; my conclusion was the plugin set to a flat frequency response made things sound less accurate then before. I have not yet tried the Morphit.
Old 7th January 2017
  #69
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by postfader View Post
All of these products should provide a preset for the supported headphones that reproduce the Harmon target response curve.

Sean Olive has done AES presentations about this research, and Tyl (along with some help from Bob Katz) over at innerfidelity.com, has done a good job of publicizing - and illustrating - with frequency response plots - how various headphones do/don't match this. It does not look like it is a coincidence (from listening tests, etc.), that the more "accurate" sounding headphones appear to match the Harmon response curves (in any price range).
This is exactly the reason why headphones should never be tuned 'flat'. Any plugin or software solution that claims to make the headphones 'flat' is doing the wrong thing. The Harman curves (and also free field or diffuse field responses) are far from flat as you probably have seen.

Morphit's manual explains how you can see the target curves used for the various modes, which is quite interesting. The 'Generic HiFi' profile is actually (by eye balling it) quite close to the Harman target response curve. I don't think Sonarworks has any means to show what their target curves actually look like.

Another thing worth mentioning: the Harman curves were based on consumer preference. Those curves may be different from what studio reference headphones tend to do (give a faithful representation of the audio content).
Old 8th January 2017
  #70
Gear Addict
 
Bouroki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by postfader View Post
All of these products should provide a preset for the supported headphones that reproduce the Harmon target response curve.

Sean Olive has done AES presentations about this research, and Tyl (along with some help from Bob Katz) over at innerfidelity.com, has done a good job of publicizing - and illustrating - with frequency response plots - how various headphones do/don't match this. It does not look like it is a coincidence (from listening tests, etc.), that the more "accurate" sounding headphones appear to match the Harmon response curves (in any price range).

I may be summarizing this incorrectly, but the Harmon response curve(s) model the frequency response of the sound reaching the ear in a well controlled studio environment. And even if that summary is off, the point is the target is not a flat frequency response. Hence, if you are forcing headphones to have a flat frequency response you are not going to reproduce accurate monitoring conditions in a well engineered room at the listening position. Or to put it another way, there are headphones which out of the box already come close to matching the Harmon target response curves; force them to be flat - and in addition to probably undoing the designers intentions, you will not be getting closer to an accurate sound field.

I don't doubt that using these plugins to set a flat response in headphones may sound preferable to what folks can achieve in project studios and/or non-acoustically engineered rooms when monitoring through less than full range monitors. But that does not mean you are getting an accurate representation of what things really sound like with headphones.

I tried the Sonarworks plugin with some high end (already pretty accurate) headphones and high quality headphone amplifiers; my conclusion was the plugin set to a flat frequency response made things sound less accurate then before. I have not yet tried the Morphit.
They don't have flat target response curves. These guys are not stupid
Old 8th January 2017
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
So... Bottom line me...

Does this replace sonar works for mixing with cans?
So far this seems to be the case for me. AKG K701 and Bose QC 15 here.
Old 9th January 2017
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
So... Bottom line me...

Does this replace sonar works for mixing with cans?
I found Sonarworks to be more neutral sounding with my MX50's, but it wasn't a landslide. In the end I made a custom EQ that takes a bit from both, because I did feel like morphit had a more neutral mid range. My highs and lows are based off of the sonarworks curve, and my mids lean more towards the morphit curve.

The morphit curve seemed obviously too bright and spiky at 10k.
Old 9th January 2017
  #73
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by postfader View Post
All of these products should provide a preset for the supported headphones that reproduce the Harmon target response curve.

Sean Olive has done AES presentations about this research, and Tyl (along with some help from Bob Katz) over at innerfidelity.com, has done a good job of publicizing - and illustrating - with frequency response plots - how various headphones do/don't match this. It does not look like it is a coincidence (from listening tests, etc.), that the more "accurate" sounding headphones appear to match the Harmon response curves (in any price range).

I may be summarizing this incorrectly, but the Harmon response curve(s) model the frequency response of the sound reaching the ear in a well controlled studio environment. And even if that summary is off, the point is the target is not a flat frequency response. Hence, if you are forcing headphones to have a flat frequency response you are not going to reproduce accurate monitoring conditions in a well engineered room at the listening position. Or to put it another way, there are headphones which out of the box already come close to matching the Harmon target response curves; force them to be flat - and in addition to probably undoing the designers intentions, you will not be getting closer to an accurate sound field.

I don't doubt that using these plugins to set a flat response in headphones may sound preferable to what folks can achieve in project studios and/or non-acoustically engineered rooms when monitoring through less than full range monitors. But that does not mean you are getting an accurate representation of what things really sound like with headphones.

I tried the Sonarworks plugin with some high end (already pretty accurate) headphones and high quality headphone amplifiers; my conclusion was the plugin set to a flat frequency response made things sound less accurate then before. I have not yet tried the Morphit.
I hope @Hrodulf is reading this. Harmon target response curve for the win in Reference 4!
Old 9th January 2017
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
I hope @Hrodulf is reading this. Harmon target response curve for the win in Reference 4!
Sure am.

In short - Harman (or rather Olive-Welti, because Harman seems to be oblivious about their findings) curve was developed by comparing headphone output tonality to a perceived response in a flat measuring speaker system in a treated room. In their case - their reference room.

Independently from Harman guys we did approximately the same. We measured a pair of headphones, calibrated them to "instrument-flat" and then hand tuned so they match the sound of a calibrated speaker system in a well treated room. Unsurprisingly our target curve isn't too different from Olive-Welti.

So - a pair of custom calibrated cans from us will sound just like a flat-measuring system in a treated room. Sans tactile impact and imaging, of course. If you have a Sonarworks calibrated studio, both your headphones and speakers will have the same tonal response and thus - will translate from one to other.

The question isn't about what feels more transparent. That's an audiophile argument. For you better is what lets you mix better.
Old 14th January 2017
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Rose View Post
I found Sonarworks to be more neutral sounding with my MX50's, but it wasn't a landslide. In the end I made a custom EQ that takes a bit from both, because I did feel like morphit had a more neutral mid range. My highs and lows are based off of the sonarworks curve, and my mids lean more towards the morphit curve.

The morphit curve seemed obviously too bright and spiky at 10k.

Have you used Fabfilter Pro-Q2 to match the 2 curves from Sonarworks and Morphit?
Can you describe the procedure? how you did that?
Old 14th January 2017
  #76
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hugo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisi View Post
Tested alongside Sonarworks.
Obviously the real point is that TB does not provide (and I think they never will, being that a whole different story) personalized profiles of your cans.
The difference with my custom sonarworks profile is light years in front of the TB approximation of the Senn HD650 which is far more piercing and foggy. Not even close.
As per "approximated" profiles, the sonarworks HD650 generic profile sounds more dense than the TB one, and less "EQed"...
My two cents.
Very much agree, Sonarworks HD650 average calibration over TB for me. TB does correct some hi frequency issues but not enough on the bottom end for my pair. With Phase set to minimum (something TB doesn't offer..) the 650 average is amazingly on it for my pair. More space and clarity is the overall difference, sounds like my Mytek converters vs Mac onboard sound card.. Could just the 650 calibration although its sounds like more than that?

Having Room calibration in the same plug is a winning combo, will stay Sonarworks here :-)
Old 14th January 2017
  #77
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
So far this seems to be the case for me. AKG K701 and Bose QC 15 here.
Do you have any specific settings for the 701s or just the correction curve at 100%?
Old 15th January 2017
  #78
OT
will be nice a mp3 player app for android and ios with this plugin inside.
Old 15th January 2017
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deff J View Post
Do you have any specific settings for the 701s or just the correction curve at 100%?
For my aging pair of K701 I leave the correction curve at 100% and match it to the Generic Hi-Fi for best results.

Note though that I was recently able to compare my old worn-in K701 to a new pair and my old ones work way better with Morphit. Not sure if AKG changed something in the later design or if it's just the notoriously long break-in period for the headphones that makes a difference, but whatever it is, it's impossible to compare one set of K701 to another. The difference is huge (like +/- 4 to 5dB huge all over the frequency spectrum).

This is probably why Sonarworks customized profiles is such a valuable thing.
Old 15th January 2017
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itbalcubo View Post
OT
will be nice a mp3 player app for android and ios with this plugin inside.
Agreed! This would be amazing.
Old 15th January 2017
  #81
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Hi,

I've not used a tool like this before so have no preconception of how helpful it could be or not. After moving last July I've been mixing on headphones only, using AKG702. I am going to get the demo this week to try myself, after flicking through the thread I wanted to ask, is this thing worth it, will I get something out of it if im just making music on my AKG with no monitors and could my mixes benefit?

Looking forward to trying, have good weekends.
Old 16th January 2017
  #82
Gear Head
 

So in corrective mode, I'm assuming your headphones still have to be on their list otherwise how does the plugin "listen" and correct for your specific cans? Incidentally this and Waves NX could be a winner.
Old 29th January 2017
  #83
Could this be used to pick new headphones?

If you can't go to a store and test for real, could this type of plugin conceivable be used with your old headphones to test which ones you might prefer to get if you were looking to get a new or extra pair of headphones?

Or is the sound still way to different to make any serious quality/preference decisions?

Thanks.
Old 15th February 2017
  #84
Here for the gear
Well I just got this and wooooow. I tried the demo of Sonarworks, used it solidly every night for a week and hated it frankly - it made the top end sound phasey and horrible on my K712's.

So I was dubious about Morphits chances. Damn, I was so wrong. From reading what people have been saying on this thread, it seems to be pretty headphone dependent which one of thee programs you should choose, but I was floored by the results of just listening to my ref tracks through this thing. I started in the DAW proper last night, started chucking some housey loops together for a quick mix, and again, not only was it actually much more pleasant during the process working in cans (K712's are a bit mid-toppy in the wrong places), but when I took them off after a goodd couple of hours, I went to listen to my speakers and it was the weirdest thing - the didnt sound weird andd phasey!?

Like no matter what, whenever I have worked in cans for a significant period of time then gone straight to speakers, they sound bizarre. But not this time. So yeah, I'm sold. This plugin is the real deal. Massive Toneboosters purchase incoming, the rest of their stuff must be amazing too, they couldnt make something this good if it wasn't XD
Old 18th February 2017
  #85
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

just got this and i'm looking forward to testing it out on the road. when i'm on tour i can't drag studio headphones with me as the pioneers i work with and their udg case is pretty big already so carrying another pair of beyers would be out of the question. i think it's great that there are so many options in the list compared to sonarworks. i do own all the other tb plugins and use some of them on every mix. i'm also a fan of the sonar plug for the speaker calibration so it will be interesting to see a comparison. but i'm more excited that i can use the pioneers on the road and get a better result (although, after 3 years of using them i'm pretty used to how they sound).
Old 19th February 2017
  #86
ukm
Gear Nut
 

I bought it when it was released but the update crashed studio one v3. Seems I'm the only one with this problem.
Old 19th February 2017
  #87
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukm View Post
I bought it when it was released but the update crashed studio one v3. Seems I'm the only one with this problem.
You on a Mac? I had issues with the VST, works good with the AU.
Old 19th February 2017
  #88
ukm
Gear Nut
 

I'm on windows; I had to load the old version of Morphit again - then remove Morphit in all songs since the songs crashed on opening. Now I copied the new version of Morphit into the vst64/vst3 folder - opened the song again an loaded Morphit - that worked.
However, I won't save a song with Morphit loaded for now. I don't like suprises of such kind.
Old 20th February 2017
  #89
Gear Maniac
 

Ok this plug is awesome...for me...on my AT M50x is perfect and my mix is very close to my mix on K&H monitors.
Very well done Tonebooster!
i have a request....i would like to see a feature like ARC system where the plug save the setting for the next session couse once that i have decided the setting for my headphone that's over.
Best
Old 20th February 2017
  #90
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Benj's Avatar
I think internal preset management would be great. If I get a custom settings I like and move to a different program... I have to recreate them. In my case, Pro Tools using Bluecat Patchwork (which doesn't load vst presets) to Sonar.

I also had to recreate my settings when version 2 came out because every instance I had when using the previous version would crash Pro Tools.
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