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SSL announced new plugin for Duende
Old 26th April 2007
  #211
Lives for gear
 

Haven't used the drumstrip yet but I have to say, thanks SSL. I finally have a solid Duende setup. The new driver and firmware update seems to have fixed all my issues. For the first time since I installed the unit (the day after the first pc release) I'm able to max out 4 dsps with no issues. Been waiting for this day. So happy I didn't return the unit. Solid and stable. As you would expect.
Old 26th April 2007
  #212
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

Crazy exchange rates over the last few months on the US$ and Japanese Yen meant that we had to re-assess. This has also led to an increase in the US List prices recently. It is our policy wherever possible maintain parity in world-wide pricing, and I personally think is right for all of our clients.

I still believe that Drumstrip represents great value for money thumbsup
Old 26th April 2007
  #213
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Crazy exchange rates over the last few months on the US$ and Japanese Yen meant that we had to re-assess. This has also led to an increase in the US List prices recently. It is our policy wherever possible maintain parity in world-wide pricing, and I personally think is right for all of our clients.
That's some logic isn't it!? Rip Off Solid State Britain, I say!!!

Jim, as everyone else here does, I also value your time spent here and your contributions, thanks for that- so I don't want to scare you away but I must say that once SSL can get my Duende to work with my otherwise perfect Dual 2Ghz G5/Logic system, I promise I'll buy it, even at 199+VAT.

I'm very green, thinking of all those with pristine Duende heaven oozing from their speakers!
Old 26th April 2007
  #214
Lives for gear
 
manthe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Crazy exchange rates over the last few months on the US$ and Japanese Yen meant that we had to re-assess. This has also led to an increase in the US List prices recently. It is our policy wherever possible maintain parity in world-wide pricing, and I personally think is right for all of our clients.

I still believe that Drumstrip represents great value for money thumbsup
$400 US represents a great value??? for one, single purpose plugin? This is an absolutely absurd price, by any logic. What happened to $300 US? What happened to the limited time, initial sale price of ~$250??

Anyone want to buy a pristine SSL Duende?

If this is what I can expect going forward, forget it!
Old 26th April 2007
  #215
Lives for gear
 

you´re talking bout dollars and exchange rates?!

what about euro? it´s 342,- euro incl. vat, that´s about 445,- $!!

for that long time of waiting a no go for me.
Old 26th April 2007
  #216
ten
Gear Maniac
 

So there is no promotional price either anymore, Jim?

I think I will have to leave it to. £150 was feasable, but £199+Vat for a plug youll use once in a song is a piss take even for SSL quality.

tom
Old 26th April 2007
  #217
Lives for gear
 
lordward's Avatar
Indeed, I find the price to be quite steep.

Luckily we all have a choice and may choose not to buy it.

Consider the argument that the Drumstrip is a plugin where one might use 3-4 instances per project (or in an extreme case perhaps 10, but not really more) then the price seems quite outrageous, in other words it's just not so essential that the price is justified. If the situation were that Duende (to begin with) had only the bus comp and the drumstrip and THEN SSL was to bring out the Channel strip I might consider the price of EUR 342 to be acceptable since this would indeed be a plug that I would want to exploit as much as possible.

It is our choice to buy or not, this is the only influence one can have over the value of a product. I would highly recommend showing your discontent-ness (?) by simply NOT purchasing the plugin. These discussions never seem to go anywhere.

DW
Old 26th April 2007
  #218
Here for the gear
I have to concur with those who consider this quite an expensive plug especially in light of the fact that SSL promised an introductory rate.

Ive been having a few problems getting the Duende to work properly and this combined with the Drumstrip price and what it seems to indicate about SSLs pricing strategy now means ill probably return/sell it, something Ive been hesitant to do because I do quite like the sound of it.
Old 26th April 2007
  #219
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Crazy exchange rates... It is our policy wherever possible maintain parity in world-wide pricing, and I personally think is right for all of our clients.
Sorry, Jim - I'm no Duende / SSL basher, as you know. But to not offer the original promotional price (especially after the release delay) as a bit of a sweetener must surely be a marketing no-no. I'm no expert on marketing, however.

I had the money ready to purchase at £127, but this is silly. Sorry, but I won't be making any more enquiries at SSL. It's all a bit sneaky, really.

I don't think I'm the only one who will 'vote with his feet', either.
Old 26th April 2007
  #220
Lives for gear
 
manthe's Avatar
 

Amen! Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordward View Post
Indeed, I find the price to be quite steep.

Luckily we all have a choice and may choose not to buy it.

Consider the argument that the Drumstrip is a plugin where one might use 3-4 instances per project (or in an extreme case perhaps 10, but not really more) then the price seems quite outrageous, in other words it's just not so essential that the price is justified. If the situation were that Duende (to begin with) had only the bus comp and the drumstrip and THEN SSL was to bring out the Channel strip I might consider the price of EUR 342 to be acceptable since this would indeed be a plug that I would want to exploit as much as possible.

It is our choice to buy or not, this is the only influence one can have over the value of a product. I would highly recommend showing your discontent-ness (?) by simply NOT purchasing the plugin. These discussions never seem to go anywhere.

DW
Old 26th April 2007
  #221
Lives for gear
 
manthe's Avatar
 

I also recommend that, along with voting with our wallets, we directly let SSL sales and marketing know how we feel.

I sent an e-mail to the following addresses:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

I politely explained my sentiments. If they hear from enough unhappy customers, perhaps a change can be effected.
Old 26th April 2007
  #222
Gear Maniac
 
DWINC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
I also recommend that, along with voting with our wallets, we directly let SSL sales and marketing know how we feel.

I sent an e-mail to the following addresses:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

I politely explained my sentiments. If they hear from enough unhappy customers, perhaps a change can be effected.
I will do that too! This is ABSURD, after all this waiting !!!!!tutt
Screw you SSL. I will keep my Duende and be happy with the standard plug ins, cos I know what drumstrip can do, and it is nothing that other plugins combined can't do to be honest. I would really like the simplicity of it, but this is not how to treat your customers !
Old 1st May 2007
  #223
Here for the gear
 

Miserable

My Duende has done nothing but wage war on my system and my patience. Everything was great before she got here and I keep asking myself why I spent all this money to ruin a good thing. Version 2 not much better at all. Anyone want a new Duende in perfect shape?
Old 3rd May 2007
  #224
I've been one of Duende's most outspoken supporters from the get-go and I was really excited about Drumstrip's release. Last week I used it on three sessions - obviously in demo mode - in anticipation that I'd be buying it during the "promotional" period. Now that the price is $400 I'm stuck. I have 5 Duendes and an extra $150 for each copy of Drumstrip is an extra $750 I hadn't expected. Now if I have to revise those sessions after Drumstrip's demo expires I'll be screwed, through no fault of my own.

And also Version 2 of Duende has introduced clicking and popping on two of the machines that were working fine before (btw - they are very streamlined w/Duende having it's own dedicated PCI firewire card).

These two things, and ESPECIALLY the evaporation of the promised introduction price, have forced me to do a 180 on my opinion of this product. I could buy one copy of Drumstrip for the machine that's already using it, but I'm jumping off the bandwagon. What a shame because it is a great product. I'm truly too pissed to promote it ever again.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #225
Originally Posted by [email protected]

Initial price is £127+Tax (Euro 190, $250) which will rise to £150 (Eu 225, $300) after a month.

(This was posted here a short while ago, but is now missing from the thread. I copied this from someone's response)
Old 3rd May 2007
  #226
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Originally Posted by [email protected]

Initial price is £127+Tax (Euro 190, $250) which will rise to £150 (Eu 225, $300) after a month.

(This was posted here a short while ago, but is now missing from the thread. I copied this from someone's response)
Hmmm. I wonder why it's missing.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #227
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

I know that there's a lot of frustration about this issue.

Yes, I did post the initial pricing information after we launched Drumstrip at the NAMM show. Yes, I did edit this post when I was informed that there would be changes. I can understand how annoying it is that when we come to release the plug-in that there is a change to this - remember as well as working for SSL I make music and buy kit for my own studio too! I can assure you all that there is not, and never has been, any intent from SSL to deliberately mislead or misinform our customers.

However, because of the strength of the £ we have had to revise our initial pricing model (which we outlined at the start of the development cycle last summer). In pretty much every currency the GBP is riding very high at the moment, and this will translate to UK products being more expensive in International markets. Similarly, it means that Japanese and US products are pretty cheap in the UK right now. Unfortunately, global economics has put us in this position and we have to follow. For the same reason we have had to make an increase to the US list prices this year.

I still believe that even at the release pricing, Drumstrip represents good value for money, and is competitively priced when compared to other major plug-in manfuacturer's offerings. It sounds good and works well. We have had little but praise from the Soundscape community for our SSL EQ, and this is priced at £299.

We have a number of other plug-ins in development here at SSL and with external developers/companies, and there will be more products coming for the Duende platform.

And for anyone who has the opinion that SSL have been "sneaky", "unfair", "underhanded" etc etc - please remember that someone from the company is here, listening, and responding to your input. We value our long-term standing in the industry, and work to provide great-sounding tools with great service. Hopefully, we get this right most of the time.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #228
Jim I heard the Duende and I really like it.....but honestly I would say that I hear more the issues and problems with Duende not only thru the Forums but to some friends that bought it.

That is the reason why I did not buy Duende...did not want to get a problem or gear that I will be not using it at all until everythig is perfectly fixed......but is talkig to long....I fear is a serious problem at the core of Duende......
Old 3rd May 2007
  #229
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We have had little but praise from the Soundscape community for our SSL EQ, and this is priced at £299.
No offence, but that's a different product. And it wasn't listed at £127 in the first place. Marketing guff, Jim, come on. It's not just a case of "UK products being more expensive in International markets" - I'm UK-based and the price increase applies here, too.

Anyway, it's all academic for me now. The Duende's out the door.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #230
ten
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
And for anyone who has the opinion that SSL have been "sneaky", "unfair", "underhanded" etc etc - please remember that someone from the company is here, listening, and responding to your input. We value our long-term standing in the industry, and work to provide great-sounding tools with great service. Hopefully, we get this right most of the time.
Personally I consider any editing of posts already made without posting why to be quite sneaky....

Your presence and information here is appreciated though, Jim. I was going to purchase drumstrip but I wont be now since this increase, infact I am actually selling the unit.....anyone UK/Europe based wants a good deal on a Duende pm me

tom
Old 3rd May 2007
  #231
Here for the gear
Whilst Im sure weve all apreciated the updates Jim has provided, it is still obvious that there has been a fair deal of frustration around the Duende.

As has been pointed out, to delay the new drivers for over a month and to more than double the pricepoint of the drumstrip without a word of explanation on the official ssl site does at first glance appear to be a slightly dubious practice.

Ive now returned mine, not because of the way it sounds (when it works), because I have little criticism in that regard, but due to the difficulties I have had in integrating the duende into my studio, the lack of response to my support mails and all the delays surrounding the driver update / drumstrip release and I must say, I really did like the drumstrip too.

Hopefully when the drivers are more stable and ssls attitude / pricing policy is more consistent it will be something i feel able to revisit.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #232
Lives for gear
 
manthe's Avatar
 

While I certainly (like everyone else) appreciate your input and information on this board, I must ABSOLUTELY disagree. This price, in NO way represents the actual value of this plug-in. This is a $250 US plug-in..TOPS...tip-tops! I'd buy it on sale for $199, or resentfully (in a pinch) for $250.

I am a professional with many tens-of-thousands in gear and software. I'm not one of the 'big-boys', but I do have have quite a few pieces of 'big-boy' gear. I do a lot of shopping, research, purchasing, trading, selling, etc. Its another part of owning/operating a commercial project studio. My point is, I feel like I have a very, VERY firm grasp on pricing (in the industry), value and quality. Drumstrip is a decent, quality, single-purpose plug-in (with use beyond drums, but not much). It simply is NOT worth $400. I have not seen a single person, pro or not, say that it is.

You're not battling perception, you're battling reality. I'm now struggling to find a reason to keep my Duende. I mean, it sounds great for what it does out of the box, but if this is what we can expect from a price perspective (not to mention the delays), going forward, I want nothing to do with it. When I consider the fact that I can get the Waves SSL native bundle from my dealer for only $225 more than the Drumstrip alone, it makes me wonder.

I'm not stupid enough to think that SSL will miss me or my business. But, this seems to be a trend, not just an individual thing. This is the first time I've *really* been 'stung' by a company/product. Honestly, I never thought it would be SSL. Maybe Tascam, Waves, etc...but not SSL.

I appreciate the updates, all the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I know that there's a lot of frustration about this issue.

Yes, I did post the initial pricing information after we launched Drumstrip at the NAMM show. Yes, I did edit this post when I was informed that there would be changes. I can understand how annoying it is that when we come to release the plug-in that there is a change to this - remember as well as working for SSL I make music and buy kit for my own studio too! I can assure you all that there is not, and never has been, any intent from SSL to deliberately mislead or misinform our customers.

However, because of the strength of the £ we have had to revise our initial pricing model (which we outlined at the start of the development cycle last summer). In pretty much every currency the GBP is riding very high at the moment, and this will translate to UK products being more expensive in International markets. Similarly, it means that Japanese and US products are pretty cheap in the UK right now. Unfortunately, global economics has put us in this position and we have to follow. For the same reason we have had to make an increase to the US list prices this year.

I still believe that even at the release pricing, Drumstrip represents good value for money, and is competitively priced when compared to other major plug-in manfuacturer's offerings. It sounds good and works well. We have had little but praise from the Soundscape community for our SSL EQ, and this is priced at £299.

We have a number of other plug-ins in development here at SSL and with external developers/companies, and there will be more products coming for the Duende platform.

And for anyone who has the opinion that SSL have been "sneaky", "unfair", "underhanded" etc etc - please remember that someone from the company is here, listening, and responding to your input. We value our long-term standing in the industry, and work to provide great-sounding tools with great service. Hopefully, we get this right most of the time.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #233
Lives for gear
 

Jim, I would highly suggest SSL eating the exchange rate difference (not the customers) and stick with the initially stated discount price for a short time.

The loss of business/bad feelings (by not honoring that initial offer) this move (including my own) will/is causing is just not worth it. Please reconsider or have the powers that be read this thread. I don't believe this will go over in this community without very harsh repercussions.

That being said, thank you for posting here and giving a voice to SSL at Gearslutz.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #234
Here for the gear
 

How About This?

Guys,

I've never posted before but this thread finally got me out and I hope this note is seen as not meant to offend.

Jim has been good enough to share information and is now being berated a bit for it. He didn't have to share any 'initial' pricing that has resulted in our (yes, me included) disappointment. He has, in fact, filled in many gaps that it appears SSL have yet to fill including, lack of information flow, support, general warm fuzzy's about new things, etc.

I also completely understand the currency fluctuations which, I might add, can also work to the benefit of SSL. Although, the US Dollar is particularly weak and as he rightly says, makes international imports more expensive.

Finally, those having issues with Duende should be recognized, although I have had nothing but success with mine.

That all said, I too am very disappointed at the price. I don't think that SSL should eat the exchange rates as they have fluctuated considerably. However, I do think that an introductory rate is a good idea. It could have a short time limit and it would recognize, nay, even appreciated the early adopters, loyal customers (it seems complete with teething problems).

This price may be higher than originally mentioned by Jim and that's OK guys (I can't wait for the onslaught from that remark :-).

There you go, my tuppence worth.

Enjoy

Joe
Old 3rd May 2007
  #235
Lives for gear
 
zak7's Avatar
 

Hi guys!
Well I here that the reson why people are givig back Duende is not because the price of Drumstrip.... is because simply Duende is not working good for most of the people!

Duende can sounds great but if is not reliable..mess your playback and create conflicts with othe plug ins beside of the famous Firewire bus conflict "that is not the only problem with Duende as many SSL reps say " ...
So I think is moment for SSL to recognize publicly the issues and address all the problems..anyway is public and kind of official the Duende issues that MOST people have.

Regarding about the price of Drumstrip....well if most of you guys think is expensive...so don't buy it....with all the Duende returns, problems etc...I think would be smart to push SSL to fix the problems of Duende and to do something about the plug ins prices....seems that in the way everything is going Duende can be a lose for SSL and also a stripe on SSL reputation.
This is like a game.....SSL was trying to make huge profits selling many Duendes ..reaching a more consumer oriented market and slapping in the face SSL console owners that expent hundred of thousands ...saying "now you have the SSL sound with duende and Xlogic/Xrack products fow a couple of thousands"...Now that Duende is not working as expected they do not care so much about the lower budget guys ignorig the issues!!!
Again here is not a problem of the price of the Plug ins!!! as Jim said ...are other plug is that are more expensive....I totally agree!! just to mention a few...Sony Oxford, Mac DSP, Metric Halo, Cranesong stuff etc.
The problem here is that Duende is not working right and to pay in top of that $400 bucks for a plug in in a platform is not working and doesn't have the support everybody expect is just ridiculous!! otherwise everybody would be happy !!
Old 3rd May 2007
  #236
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zak7 View Post
The problem here is that Duende is not working right and to pay in top of that $400 bucks for a plug in in a platform is not working and doesn't have the support everybody expect is just ridiculous!! otherwise everybody would be happy !!
That isn't the problem here. My Duende was working fine for months. You're missing the point entirely.
Old 3rd May 2007
  #237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilla View Post
That isn't the problem here. My Duende was working fine for months. You're missing the point entirely.
Was working o is working fine now???
Old 3rd May 2007
  #238
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
Was working o is working fine now???
No, it still works, but I sold it to a friend. I'm sceptical about software systems (not only because they can be unreliable, but because they always want money throwing at them!). Keeping up with Macs / Logic is enough for me - I would rather invest in hardware, that's what I feel comfortable investing in, basically.
Old 4th May 2007
  #239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJoe View Post
Jim has been good enough to share information and is now being berated a bit for it.
I don't think a single person here is "berating" Jim personally. The issue is with the ineffectiveness of the Ver2 update and especially the new pricing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jim didn't personally set those prices.

Indeed Jim has been very kind to keep everyone informed. However, I was baited into downloading the demo and using it based on a price of $250, then the price was switched. Bait and switch. i doubt this bait and switch was intentional, just as Jim has already stated, but it hardly matters. Too high, good bye...
Old 4th May 2007
  #240
Gear Addict
 
Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I don't think a single person here is "berating" Jim personally.
Definitely not. Nothing personal against Jim here - I've had emails from the man himself in the past and on the basis of that (and his YouTube video), he's a good man (with a sense of humour). It's a disgruntlement with SSL, nothing more.
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