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Antelope Audio's New Orion Studio
Old 15th April 2019
  #1651
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
A couple of days ago I asked a friend if he's still liking his Orion. I was curious to know if Antelope had smoothed out the firmware/software issues. The following day he wrote back again to say that as of that morning the unit will no longer power on. It's his 2nd Orion (the first had the front knob which wouldn't rotate properly) and this 2nd one has been repaired once -- now it's broken again. That answered my question about current Orion reliability, and doused my curiosity about the new model.
Old 16th April 2019
  #1652
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
A couple of days ago I asked a friend if he's still liking his Orion. I was curious to know if Antelope had smoothed out the firmware/software issues. The following day he wrote back again to say that as of that morning the unit will no longer power on. It's his 2nd Orion (the first had the front knob which wouldn't rotate properly) and this 2nd one has been repaired once -- now it's broken again. That answered my question about current Orion reliability, and doused my curiosity about the new model.
Mine has worked just great everyday for the 2 years I have owed it.
Old 16th April 2019
  #1653
My original OrionStudio has been totally solid for 4 years.
Old 21st April 2019
  #1654
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
These are all issues I'm seeing as well, including having to restart the server - and sometimes my Mac - to get back up and running. In the middle of session, it's a real buzzkill.

..ant
Does anyone of you exactly know the function of the Antelope server? Can anyone explain it to me? All I know is that the server is required to check the existence of available updates. In addition, the server is responsible for incoming connections (such as from the mobile app).

But why in the world is it a prerequisite for the TB / USB connection between the control panel and the hardware?

Who understands this confusing software architecture? Why are customers bothered with such technical details as they only want to operate their audio interface via a control software?

If the server does not work, the launcher will not show any hardware. Unfortunately, the hardware can only be operated to a limited extent without the control panel.

If I want to start the control panel for my Orion Studio, I always have to restart the server via the Admin function in the launcher (latest version). Although the launcher shows me that the server is running. The launcher does not even know for sure if the server is really running. And again and again I get these strange permission popups.

The support explained to me that the server is running on "root level" of the computer, and therefore requires extensive permissions on the computer. The problem more or less would be the "security measures of Apple". They also told me that "software development decisions" are not commented by support. In the meantime, the ticket was closed again "due to inactivity".

Well that worries me a lot.

Do they really still know what they are doing? Are they following the OS manufacturers development guidelines or do they follow their own proprietary ideas? Or have they screwed themselves into ideas that are neither sustainable nor can they ever be reversed, because everything else builds on them?

Or is a company that builds an audio interface into a microphone and emulates Neves and Pultecs in it (Edge Go) just so super great that you should not ask such stupid questions? Sorry, I miss the link.
Old 22nd April 2019
  #1655
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAudioLED View Post
Does anyone of you exactly know the function of the Antelope server? Can anyone explain it to me? All I know is that the server is required to check the existence of available updates. In addition, the server is responsible for incoming connections (such as from the mobile app).

But why in the world is it a prerequisite for the TB / USB connection between the control panel and the hardware?

Who understands this confusing software architecture? Why are customers bothered with such technical details as they only want to operate their audio interface via a control software?

If the server does not work, the launcher will not show any hardware. Unfortunately, the hardware can only be operated to a limited extent without the control panel.

If I want to start the control panel for my Orion Studio, I always have to restart the server via the Admin function in the launcher (latest version). Although the launcher shows me that the server is running. The launcher does not even know for sure if the server is really running. And again and again I get these strange permission popups.

The support explained to me that the server is running on "root level" of the computer, and therefore requires extensive permissions on the computer. The problem more or less would be the "security measures of Apple". They also told me that "software development decisions" are not commented by support. In the meantime, the ticket was closed again "due to inactivity".

Well that worries me a lot.

Do they really still know what they are doing? Are they following the OS manufacturers development guidelines or do they follow their own proprietary ideas? Or have they screwed themselves into ideas that are neither sustainable nor can they ever be reversed, because everything else builds on them?

Or is a company that builds an audio interface into a microphone and emulates Neves and Pultecs in it (Edge Go) just so super great that you should not ask such stupid questions? Sorry, I miss the link.

Hi,

The manager server acts as host for sending information to the device and from the device to the computer, it acts as a mediator between the driver, computer and the interface. At the same time it does all that you mentioned, but without the server, the communication simply won't work due to no software taking care of the commands being sent both ways. The manager server is the best decision with an interface with such capabilities - the application as you mentioned, being able to control the device from multiple other computer on the network, etc. Also, the infrastructure of the whole hardware/base software just has to be controlled in such a way.

The Launcher is always aware whether the server is running. What you are explaining sounds like a software blocking issue (blocking on the side of the OS - a software application is blocking the manager server, such software may be a network filtering software, anti-virus software, etc.). I strongly advice you to get in touch with our technical support again. It honestly sounds like a thing that could be fixed easily by them.

I assure you that our technical support engineers do know what they are doing and they are great at it.

The second thing that you mentioned - the security features - concerns only one thing and that is the dialog box that shows up asking for your password. It is indeed true that this is happening due to the security features that Apple introduced, because launching a local server on your computer by any developer is fishy when MAC OS is reviewing a software trigger of this sort. I wouldn't call this an issue in any case, it just asks for your password, which won't take more than a second to type in.

Regarding the closed ticket - the tickets are automatically closed after 3 days of no response from you, this is pretty standard with all support teams. You can easily reply to the ticket again and it will automatically reopen.

I can also assure you that our developers are following Apple's development guidelines, you can't get any software running at all if you aren't following the guidelines.

I appreciate your questions and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you - you can send me a personal message here. I'm remaining at your disposal.
Old 23rd April 2019
  #1656
Here for the gear
 

Uninstall Antelope Audio Server

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
Hi,


The Launcher is always aware whether the server is running. What you are explaining sounds like a software blocking issue (blocking on the side of the OS - a software application is blocking the manager server, such software may be a network filtering software, anti-virus software, etc.). I strongly advice you to get in touch with our technical support again. It honestly sounds like a thing that could be fixed easily by them.
.
Hi,
I wan't to remove all remnants of the Antelope Audio Server but can't find a way to do this. I have removed the driver and removed the launcher but the root process (audio server remains). Please help.
Old 23rd April 2019
  #1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by stucam66 View Post
Hi,
I wan't to remove all remnants of the Antelope Audio Server but can't find a way to do this. I have removed the driver and removed the launcher but the root process (audio server remains). Please help.
I'm on Mac. You find the Antelope Server here (or similar folder based on the version):

/Users/Shared/.AntelopeAudio/managerserver/servers/1.6.4

I rename the file "AntelopeAudioServer-1.6.4" to "x AntelopeAudioServer-1.6.4" and "force quit" via the Activity Monitor and it no longer runs. If I need to run it later (to run Control Panel to modify my hardware presets), I just rename it back to "AntelopeAudioServer-1.6.4" and it restarts due to the KeepAlive setting in the launchd registration. Then I update my presets with the Control Panel, rename the server and kill the Server process again. My system is much more stable this way.

..ant
Old 23rd April 2019
  #1658
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAudioLED View Post
Does anyone of you exactly know the function of the Antelope server?....Who understands this confusing software architecture?
After seeing Antelope's response, I feel I have to respond. First let me say that, thanks to your suggestion, TAudioLED, to use hardware presets, I am back up and running with my Orion Studio and pretty happy. Still great sounding hardware with fantastic connectivity and routing and more affordable than other options

I no longer run the Antelope Server, Launcher or Control Panel, and my system is much more stable and all the buzz-killing experiences are gone: no more admin password prompts, no unnecessary two-stage Launcher/Control Panel startup, no delays to "check for upgrades" or "bind AFX", no endless multicasts that cause my firewall to freak out. I just select a preset from the hardware front panel and make music.

After a couple of sessions working this new way, the only Control Panel feature I'm missing is the clipping indicator, which doesn't really exist on the hardware front panel, but that is mitigated by not fiddling with my preset levels. Other than that it's been a great experience just using the excellent Orion Studio hardware without all the crappy software.

I'll go over the issues. I've shared all of this with Antelope Support but their hands are tied by the response from software engineering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAudioLED View Post
Does anyone of you exactly know the function of the Antelope server?
The software architecture is a mess and despite Antelope's response, it is completely out of bounds of acceptable software standards. The server is continuosly broadcasting multicast messages - several times a second - to announce availablity of devices. The Launcher checks for updates on each launch, runs privileged system-level updates (requiring admin password), checks for broadcasts from the server and (optionally) auto-launches the Control Panel. In prior releases the Launcher did not exist and the Control Panel could be launched directly, proving the entire Launcher/Server mechanism is unnecessary. It is there because Antelope wants to force upgrades (on every launch) and, I suspect, to be a watchdog process over hung/crashed process (of which it does a poor job).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
The second thing that you mentioned - the security features - concerns only one thing and that is the dialog box that shows up asking for your password. It is indeed true that this is happening due to the security features that Apple introduced, because launching a local server on your computer by any developer is fishy when MAC OS is reviewing a software trigger of this sort. I wouldn't call this an issue in any case, it just asks for your password, which won't take more than a second to type in.
This is completely unacceptable. The Antelope Launcher runs as root and continuously makes modififications to protected system folders at each launch so it can do "auto updates" and to do "cleanups" of any user mucking with system files, which is why you are continously asked for your admin password. This is way out of bounds of standard practice. If there is an issue with the operation of Antelope software, the proper and accepted standard is to do a full uninstall and re-install, which should return the system to a known state and address any issues. Only during the uninstall/reinstall process should you be prompted for an admin password, as I'm sure you're familiar with using other software. Because Antelope wants for "force update" you whenever they want (i.e. out of your control and possibly in the middle of a recording session), they have chosen to run Antelope Launcher as root, which is poor engineering practice. As you've no doubt noticed, no other software continuously asks for your admin password to make system level changes on each launch. This is just poor engineering practices, no matter how much Antelope claims it is "due to security features that Apple introduced" or that it "won't take more than a second to type in". Simply ask yourself what other reputable software does this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
without the server, the communication simply won't work due to no software taking care of the commands being sent both ways. The manager server is the best decision with an interface with such capabilities - the application as you mentioned, being able to control the device from multiple other computer on the network, etc. Also, the infrastructure of the whole hardware/base software just has to be controlled in such a way.
Lots of software works fine with attached hardware and drivers when all the software is stable. The multicast spamming of the server is just a hack. You just don't see "servers" that are spamming mulitcast messages several times a second for all your attached USB and TB devices just to make sure they're there. It's just not the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
The Launcher is always aware whether the server is running. What you are explaining sounds like a software blocking issue (blocking on the side of the OS - a software application is blocking the manager server, such software may be a network filtering software, anti-virus software, etc.).
As you have mentioned, this is simply not true as you have seen cases where the Launcher does not see the server and you have to restart the server using the Admin panel. I have reported this to Antelope and gotten the same excuses. They blame my firewall but I have done tests with my firewall completely disabled and still I get excuses. The Server hangs, the Control Panel fails to connect, the Launcher fails to detect the Server has hung and the whole fragile system crumbles. It's a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
I assure you that our technical support engineers do know what they are doing and they are great at it.
I don't blame Antelope tech support. They are just communicating what they are given by software engineering. I don't blame them either. I'm guessing they are under-resourced and forced to focus on new AFX and forced upgrades instead of rock-solid stable software. It's a shame, the hardware is excellent.

I hope Antelope leadership wakes up and turns this around. Now that I have a workaround to all the software issues by using hardware presets, I'm loving my Orion Studio again. I would like to use the software again someday, and maybe even the AFX, but I need to be able to trust that Antelope won't bring my studio down for weeks as they did before with forced upgrades and buggy software.

..ant

Last edited by antstudio; 23rd April 2019 at 12:31 PM..
Old 23rd April 2019
  #1659
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Hi!

@ antstudio

Indeed, you could run the control panel directly before we introduced the Antelope Launcher. However, the manager server was still running and doing its main job - sending commands back and forth. I might have missed a few important notes in my last post - the device will work just fine without the server running and without the control panel/Antelope Launcher. The server is needed when you have to use the control panel to communicate between the computer and interface, meaning - if you move up the gain of your preamp in the control panel, the manager server will be the first one handling that request.

The Antelope Launcher is the only piece of software that forces updates onto itself, that’s important for us, since we can be certain that all users have the latest features and compatibility updates regarding the launcher itself. We do not force you to update the control panel, firmware, driver or manager server, which are the crucial ones to have the control panel running and we will keep it that way.

The Antelope Launcher asks to make modification to protected system folders, so it can manage the driver-manager server connection, the driver is located in such a folder and the launcher needs permission to work with it. Another example is a driver update, if you decide to perform an available update for the driver, the launcher again will need permission to write/read in those folders. I wouldn’t consider this a bad engineering practice in any way. Having a Unified driver that is being updated and having all of the features that the manager server offers (remote connection to the control panel, mobile applications) and having to type in your password when you start up the Antelope Launcher is perfectly fine with me. I understand that this might not be how you feel about it, but the majority of users would be fine with just entering their password in order to have this software architecture that provides you with such features. To put it shortly, the features that you get have the cost of you entering your password.

Regarding what you said about “You just don't see "servers" that are spamming mulitcast messages several times a second for all your attached USB and TB devices just to make sure they're there”, I already explained that the device works just fine without the manager server and launcher, but controlling it requires both. What you are seeing in the manager server logs as “spamming messages to make sure that the device is there” is just what the logs report, they won’t report each specific command publicly in that log. Having that log and checking its reports, is just the tip of what’s actually happening.

“as you have seen cases where the Launcher does not see the server and you have to restart the server using the Admin panel” - what I meant in my previous post is that, truly - the Antelope Launcher is always aware if the server is running, this means that the server might not start up, but the Antelope Launcher won’t say that the server is running if it isn’t. That’s what I meant and I am sorry if I caused any confusion. This of course, doesn’t mean that the Antelope Launcher will automatically fix itself if the server is blocked somehow.

I would be more than glad to help you with any issues that you might have experienced and also answer any other questions that you might have. I am giving you this information, because we want to be as transparent as possible and we want to have a two-way communication with all of you.

You can send me a private message if you want to ask something, provide us with feedback, etc.
Old 8th May 2019
  #1660
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Hi!

I just want to share this video, showcasing how our support team works and who is behind the phone/chat/ticket talking to you.

Old 13th May 2019
  #1661
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
I appreciate your questions and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you - you can send me a personal message here. I'm remaining at your disposal.
@ Sam ,

Thank you for your extraordinary commitment and for enabling the remote session with the developer. It was really great how you took care of the problem that I am almost desperate for. Antelope should be happy to have someone like you on board.

For all those who were also affected: It was about the constant pop-ups and password requests when launching the Antelope server. You can read my story of suffering in the previous comments.

With the Antelope Server Update to 1.6.21, the server is started automatically and the Laucher / Control Panel runs right from the start without problems.

@ antstudio : maybe that's also a light on the horizon for you ...
Old 14th May 2019
  #1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAudioLED View Post
@ antstudio : maybe that's also a light on the horizon for you ...
Thanks for the update. I'm actually running fine now just using the HW presets and not running the control panel/antelope launcher/server at all. Making music again and back in business. Great sounding hardware. Very hesitant to try any software updates.

..ant
Old 15th May 2019
  #1663
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
Thanks for the update. I'm actually running fine now just using the HW presets and not running the control panel/antelope launcher/server at all. Making music again and back in business. Great sounding hardware. Very hesitant to try any software updates.

..ant
Hi ant!

I would be more than glad to help you, if you decide to use it on the software side too again. You can directly send me a message if you need any help.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1664
Here for the gear
hi guys, I'm running Orion Studio on updated Windows 10 , after update to latest Orion firmware getting clicks on right monitor, I guess I'm not the only one..?
Basically had those issues just like some other members previously, all were solved by firmware downgrade then later update..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1665
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by _tengu_ View Post
hi guys, I'm running Orion Studio on updated Windows 10 , after update to latest Orion firmware getting clicks on right monitor, I guess I'm not the only one..?
Basically had those issues just like some other members previously, all were solved by firmware downgrade then later update..
Hi!

Did you try performing a factory reset after the update? Also did you get in touch with our support team?

Feel free to message me directly.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1666
Here for the gear
I've tried to contact support via chat 2 hours ago, still didn't got the answer.
I haven't tried the factory reset, should I try it?

Later on:
support contacted me , solved by installing unreleased firmware
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1667
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by _tengu_ View Post
I've tried to contact support via chat 2 hours ago, still didn't got the answer.
I haven't tried the factory reset, should I try it?
Hi!

I'll send you a private message, let's continue our communication there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1668
Gear Head
 

I would love to see a Antelope Studio with MADI I/O for connecting extra channels with the Orion32.

(I far as I know win10 can't handle multiple soundcards and the routing option for stand alone is very usefull to)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1669
Here for the gear
Just some updates about my current Orion Studio state,
unreleased firmware that I've got from customer support stopped the crackling noise on right side, but
another issue came up.
Sometimes card disconnects and audio fails, no sound coming out of device and audio / video I'm watching is freezing , so each time a manually disconnect the power of device and turn it back on...
I've ignored that since it wasn't an official update, but a day ago official update released - same results, every 30 minutes or so card disconnects and no audio heard .. contacting support..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1670
Here for the gear
Just wanted to chime in regarding my original Orion Studio. It is still going strong after about 3 years of ownership. About a year ago it wouldn't power on and after contacting customer support and taking it to a local repair shop for a look over it was determined that the locking power supply cable was faulty. I purchased another one direct from Antelope for about $50 dollars.
Old 1 week ago
  #1671
Gear Head
Ha, Only a few weeks ago i posted that my orion had been working great for two years.
Well i just stepped into the studio and the thing had died. i tested the PSU and it shows 18v so must be the unit?
Obviously support is closed.
anyone had similar?
anyone know of a service centre in uk?
Old 1 week ago
  #1672
Gear Head
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by molelos View Post
Ha, Only a few weeks ago i posted that my orion had been working great for two years.
Well i just stepped into the studio and the thing had died. i tested the PSU and it shows 18v so must be the unit?
Obviously support is closed.
anyone had similar?
anyone know of a service centre in uk?
Hi!

Did you get in touch with our support team? Please send me a private message.
Old 1 week ago
  #1673
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
I appreciate your questions and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you - you can send me a personal message here. I'm remaining at your disposal.
Well Sam, why do you not answer to my private messages? Was it too clear what I said?

With server version 1.6.26 nothing works for me anymore. Any issues resolved with 1.6.21 and 1.6.24 are back with the current version. The full broadside for the customer. Is your chief developer back from vacation?

Well: I am a good customer. I opened a support ticket. Very good. The support colleague has suggested that I start a remote session so he can install server version 1.4.8 for me. I told him that I could do it myself. The stupid thing is: 1.4.8 was released in June 2018 (a year ago). I asked him if that was serious? 5 days: no answer.

Everyone in the community can now think for themselves. This example shows where Antelope stands.

Sorry Sam. I know you can not help in the support of this incompetence in your development. The way I see it, the colleague just wanted to put it back in place before this whole zero number started with the new role of the launcher and this double zero number AFX2DAW. Nobody needs AFX2DAW. You're just a couple of years late. Everyone has enough native plugins in their DAW, and today's processors have enough processor power (especially for EQs and COMPs). You did not have to do it all for that.

Why are you continuing at this point? You are ruining your entire business with this development. Who gives your chief developers in your company so much room for maneuver?

As a customer, I just want to control a hardware device with software and vice versa. That's what you do in today's studio technology.

But obviously, in the ivory tower of the Antelope development, it's easy to believe that the whole world is a laboratory. Where you just try out things. At some point that works. Perhaps. And sometimes never.

But that's not how it works in the world of musicians and producers. The people out there have to work hard for their money.

Get rid of this stupid proprietary server technology and rely on technology others use too. Other audio interfaces can also be remotely controlled. Also in 2-step procedure via mobile devices.

Stop mixing your update philosophy with the product. If the software quality is right, you do not need an update every day. The launcher and the control panel simply have nothing to do with each other. You only annoy the customer with it.

BR, TAudioLED
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