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-   -   Trident 88 or keep my Soundcraft Ghost? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/982551-trident-88-keep-my-soundcraft-ghost.html)

edvdr76 25th January 2015 10:59 PM

Trident 88 or keep my Soundcraft Ghost?
 
Hello my fellow Gearslutz. Just wanted to know what's your guy's take on that new Trident 88. I've had a Soundcraft Ghost in my studio for what seems like forever. Mind you, I have a lot of outboard gear, so it gets used mostly for monitoring and EQ tweeks here and there. Now my question is, should I save the money, keep my Ghost and hot rod it, or go balls out and get in to debt with the Trident 88?

clearwave 26th January 2015 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edvdr76 (Post 10758152)
Hello my fellow Gearslutz. Just wanted to know what's your guy's take on that new Trident 88. I've had a Soundcraft Ghost in my studio for what seems like forever. Mind you, I have a lot of outboard gear, so it gets used mostly for monitoring and EQ tweeks here and there. Now my question is, should I save the money, keep my Ghost and hot rod it, or go balls out and get in to debt with the Trident 88?

Balls out.

Croaker 26th January 2015 04:24 AM

get ur balls out :evil:

Drumsound 26th January 2015 06:19 AM

Be careful as to the amount of debt that you allow you business to take on.

RoundBadge 26th January 2015 08:02 PM

played w/ the 88 @ NAMM.
felt really solid.compared to the other new consoles out there,the price is great.

Paul_G 26th January 2015 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge (Post 10761090)
played w/ the 88 @ NAMM.
felt really solid.compared to the other new consoles out there,the price is great.

Sorry to go off topic...
I was thinking about switching the Tonelux for one. Any thoughts? Any sonic impressions yet?

RoundBadge 26th January 2015 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_G (Post 10761325)
Sorry to go off topic...
I was thinking about switching the Tonelux for one. Any thoughts? Any sonic impressions yet?

Hi Paul.
hard to tell on the floor.
although the eq sounded similar to what I remember about the original 80b series.
like 35k for 32 channels of real inline console though.:)

Bassmankr 26th January 2015 09:38 PM

Why go into debt at all when there are so many great used desks in the under $12k range? Even putting some money onto them you will be money ahead and likely have a better desk based on their original prices. It's not that hard to look at features/routing/sonics and compare that shiny new $30k desk against a former new price 80k+ desk now for under $12k.

It's not like that new Trident is going to bring in anymore business than say a used Neotek or some other great used choices.

The smart choice is to let someone else eat the depreciation.

Paul_G 26th January 2015 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge (Post 10761395)
Hi Paul.
hard to tell on the floor.
although the eq sounded similar to what I remember about the original 80b series.
like 35k for 32 channels of real inline console though.:)

Cheers RB.
It does sound like an amazing deal. I guess I'll wait and check one in the flesh. I can't imagine it would sound as good as the Tonelux but I have a real soft spot for Tridents…

RoundBadge 26th January 2015 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_G (Post 10761462)
Cheers RB.
It does sound like an amazing deal. I guess I'll wait and check one in the flesh. I can't imagine it would sound as good as the Tonelux but I have a real soft spot for Tridents…

of course its not a old discrete Neve or API but if you liked the sound of the older series 80b this will get you there.
supposedly the specs are even better.

edvdr76 27th January 2015 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge (Post 10761090)
played w/ the 88 @ NAMM.
felt really solid.compared to the other new consoles out there,the price is great.

Exactly! I also got a chance to fiddle with it at NAMM and completely fell in love with it. kfhkh

RoundBadge 27th January 2015 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edvdr76 (Post 10761898)
Exactly! I also got a chance to fiddle with it at NAMM and completely fell in love with it. kfhkh

time will tell about reliability,support etc but it appears they did a good job.
looks legit.

edvdr76 27th January 2015 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmankr (Post 10761428)
Why go into debt at all when there are so many great used desks in the under $12k range? Even putting some money onto them you will be money ahead and likely have a better desk based on their original prices. It's not that hard to look at features/routing/sonics and compare that shiny new $30k desk against a former new price 80k+ desk now for under $12k.

It's not like that new Trident is going to bring in anymore business than say a used Neotek or some other great used choices.

The smart choice is to let someone else eat the depreciation.

Very true.... That's something that crossed my mind. Just thinking about what the maintenance on an old board would be.

Neotek boards are pretty cool. I got a chance to try out a few of those in Chicago. A bunch of studios have them out there since that's where they are based. Great sounding, simple boards.

Bassmankr 27th January 2015 06:14 PM

Maintenance is a good question to be researching for ALL your potential canidates both new and old. I personally look at maintenance from a "How is the desk constructed?" viewpoint. Is it fully modular as in can I quickly remove a defective module and insert a working module to keep going with only a few minutes downtime and then repairing or sending that defective module out for service when convienent? Grabbing a desk constructed that way along with extra modules allows you to do this. Is the desk made with through hole components or surface mounted components? Surface mounted is much harder to repair and in many cases a defective part is solved by replacing the whole PCB card assembly with a new one which gets into more cost. How hands on are you and do you have a tech nearby that services that specific desk for the stuff you can't do by yourself? If it's a new desk under warranty, will they send a tech to your place or will you have to pack it up for service, and if so what will the turnaround time likely be? When running numbers you must factor in downtime costs.

Brent Casey 29th January 2015 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmankr (Post 10764219)
Maintenance is a good question to be researching for ALL your potential canidates both new and old. I personally look at maintenance from a "How is the desk constructed?" viewpoint. Is it fully modular as in can I quickly remove a defective module and insert a working module to keep going with only a few minutes downtime and then repairing or sending that defective module out for service when convienent? Grabbing a desk constructed that way along with extra modules allows you to do this. Is the desk made with through hole components or surface mounted components? Surface mounted is much harder to repair and in many cases a defective part is solved by replacing the whole PCB card assembly with a new one which gets into more cost. How hands on are you and do you have a tech nearby that services that specific desk for the stuff you can't do by yourself? If it's a new desk under warranty, will they send a tech to your place or will you have to pack it up for service, and if so what will the turnaround time likely be? When running numbers you must factor in downtime costs.


Hiya,

Those are some good words to live by when considering a desk upgrade.

I work as a designer for PMI/Trident, but was not on the 88 project. I do know a lot about it, however.
From a construction standpoint, the board is simple to tear down for repair. Another way to look at this is that the board is highly "manufacturable". Ease of servicing is a hallmark of design for manufacturability, or DFM. The mechanical engineer who designed this board from the ground up did so with DFM in mind and it shows. I don't think you'll find a single soul who's checked out the board in person who would consider it anything other than well implemented and rock solid.
As far as SMD components go, the 88 is 99% surface mount, but I disagree that it is harder to repair. I think it's easier for the most part - just smaller. And you don't have to keep flipping the PCB over to desolder components, which is nice.
Also, as it happens, this isn't a device where one must junk the entire PCB because of a circuit fault. I think that is more common in complex multilayer digital boards. Audio circuits, like a mixing console such as this are pretty simple and straightforward.
As far as old consoles go - buy them! Especially if you're in Los Angeles. I've made a lot of money doing maintenance over the years and my rates are pretty decent.
My personal take on the Trident 88 is that I'm 100% behind it and I'm glad that this is the board our company is bringing to the marketplace.

LegacyMix 2nd February 2015 06:45 AM

I don't know what the new Trident 88 sounds like or the Soundcraft Ghost but I will say an old Trident series 80/80b/TSM comes closer to an API sound than just about anything available short of buying an API console so the Trident 88 should rock if an aggressive punchy modern sound is what you are after. Is an 88 like an 80b? Not updated on that. Might be even better. I own both an API Legacy 32x48 and Trident TSM 32x24. TSM very similar to 80b sound. API and Trident consoles both kick major butt! khrthjdrt

44deluxe 4th February 2015 05:52 PM

Interested to know if this is the same as the Series 82 desk made in the UK?

I'm in the market (along with a lot of other people) for a mid priced desk that sounds fantastic but don't necessarily want the crapshoot of buying used.

jupiter8 4th February 2015 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44deluxe (Post 10789171)
Interested to know if this is the same as the Series 82 desk made in the UK?

It's not.

44deluxe 5th February 2015 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jupiter8 (Post 10790042)
It's not.

Massively helpful, thank!

blueflag 5th February 2015 07:14 AM

What about the Ocean Audio The Ark 916 ?

I've been looking at these same console choices,after hearing the youtube demonstrations
of the PMI Trident 88 i was not impressed.Maybe it's the driver and not the car?

The Ocean Audio modules seem to get a lot of love from user feedback here on GS.
It seems the console would be easier to service as well.

Because i have quite a bit of outboard in the racks,i ordered an API The Box.
I will be adding 8 ch. of Capi vp28 for dual purpose pre/line in.

I would be hesitant to be the first to buy a new console from PMI.
Their track record with the Toft board is well documented.
The features of the Trident 88 are amazing and i hope it's a winner.

With API you know your getting a legacy of quality in sound and service,no guessing.

Happy hunting!

miniqtone 19th February 2015 02:26 AM

vs: complete Ghost overhaul by Creation Audio Labs
 
Ive not heard the new Trident, and so like anyone else who has not used one, dunno!

How about having your Ghost completely up fitted by C.A.L.? It will be a new console at that point, yet you will have zero learning curve. Talk to them as bout what to expect, search around.

Ive not run such a modded Ghost but from what I hear it brings the Ghost into a completely higher level. Completely gone-thru, upgraded to the max. WAY less than a new Trident.

alanhyatt 24th February 2015 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniqtone (Post 10830117)
Ive not heard the new Trident, and so like anyone else who has not used one, dunno!

How about having your Ghost completely up fitted by C.A.L.? It will be a new console at that point, yet you will have zero learning curve. Talk to them as bout what to expect, search around.

Ive not run such a modded Ghost but from what I hear it brings the Ghost into a completely higher level. Completely gone-thru, upgraded to the max. WAY less than a new Trident.

Any used console you spend 12K on will take another 12K to bring it back if you can get all the mechanical parts. So you now have spent 24K and have no warranty and old specs and performance. Something to think about!!!

miniqtone 24th February 2015 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanhyatt (Post 10844686)
Any used console you spend 12K on will take another 12K to bring it back if you can get all the mechanical parts. So you now have spent 24K and have no warranty and old specs and performance. Something to think about!!!

Alan...would it REALLY cost anywhere near 12K to have CAL up fit this man's Ghost?
Heck...if he had the master section upgraded and did the channels by groups as needed he'd be able to ease into it.
Could the Trident come anywhere close to the aprox 90db+ crosstalk spec of such a modded Ghost?

alanhyatt 24th February 2015 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniqtone (Post 10845054)
Alan...would it REALLY cost anywhere near 12K to have CAL up fit this man's Ghost?
Heck...if he had the master section upgraded and did the channels by groups as needed he'd be able to ease into it.
Could the Trident come anywhere close to the aprox 90db+ crosstalk spec of such a modded Ghost?

I'm not talking about a Ghost. I'm talking about an old DDA, 80B, AMEK or other reasonable old console. I have no clue what this guy CAL will charge to hot rod a Ghost, nor do I know what he actually does to it. Again, with all due respect, it is still a Ghost...

The Trident 88 crosstalk is -90dB @20KHz and that is conservative. The quality of the Series 88 is right there with the API 1608, NEVE 5088 and others all the way across the board, and the front end of the Trident is Class A Discrete.

The 88 is an amazing achievement for the money. We could charge what the others charge, but then I would not sleep well at night!

miniqtone 24th February 2015 06:25 PM

COMPLETE CAL Ghost upgrade costs are around 4700 for 24 channels, 6K for 32 channels.

PKirrk 24th February 2015 06:26 PM

...goood point right there...i'm gonna go with don't give up the ghost...

the crazy thing about those old sound crafts is that they actually sound great. Period.

Obviously we all LOOOVE to consider new gear in our quest for awesomeness...however...those consoles are like a beautiful wife that is just always there for you...who you eventually take for granted...and realize that she was the sunshine in your universe when she's gone...

don't do it...buy that console some flowers...give her a couple of days @ Jim Wlliam's spa...and she'll be good for another twenty

:)

alanhyatt 24th February 2015 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniqtone (Post 10845083)
COMPLETE CAL Ghost upgrade costs are around 4700 for 24 channels, 6K for 32 channels.

Well after spending 4700, its still a Ghost, but that's ok if that is what you want...The Trident 88 is a different animal....

chainrule 24th February 2015 06:32 PM

is 88 Oram or toft built? or who?

brianellefson 24th February 2015 08:31 PM

I haven't heard an 88 yet, but I handled the first one made at NAMM last year and it feels solidly built. The channel strips feel ridgid and look well laid out. The option for transformers is very cool. It just FEELS like a bigger console even though it's practically portable.

I like those old Ghosts. And modded they sound good. However if I were putting together a studio that other people would coming to - I'd choose the 88. It's got that "This is what a console is suppose to look and feel like" attitude to it. And I could be totally wrong, but judging by the materials and construction quality - I bet it sounds great.

PKirrk 25th February 2015 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanhyatt (Post 10845097)
Well after spending 4700, its still a Ghost, but that's ok if that is what you want...The Trident 88 is a different animal....

Yeah I've heard that before, but somehow the "just a ghost" seems to make pleasing recordings time after time after time...

There's something about those consoles that sounds great...so why fight it. If we are that hung up about it not saying API or Trident or Neve...then cover up the name...

it's definitely not lacking sonically to me and it holds up to its specs and real world abuse quite nicely...somehow sound craft nailed it with that one and it's predecessor...and thats it really