Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Music Computers (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/)
-   -   Why I finally agree that FLStudio is shit. (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/965818-why-i-finally-agree-flstudio-shit.html)

Wondering Pigeon 9th November 2014 04:13 AM

Why I finally agree that FLStudio is shit.
 
Now don't get me wrong, I have used nothing but FL for 4 years I was a fanboy... But after witnessing all the great new versions of daws recently being released like Reason 8, Cubase 7 and Logic pro X, I finally understood why FL is frowned upon and gets so much hate. I'll start with a prelude. I understand that it has nothing to do with the daw and it's all about the user.. But that's a subjective con to people who are poor or on a budget. Although FL comes with some great plugins like Harmor.. and.. Well that's the only Plugin it comes with that's worth noting.. I mean yeah Poizon, 3x osc, and sytrus are good, but then you have flops like wasp, harmless and autogun. They just aren't that powerful in my opinion. And the stock samples I.e drums/loops/one shots are just the worst I've ever heard.. and if that wasn't bad enough you literally only get a few plugins even buying the signature bundle only give you maximus and sytrus, yeah they are pre loaded but you have to buy them in order to actually use them so Harmor/Poizon/Harmless all useless. It's like FL is just a coloring book that doesn't come with crayons, you have to buy them all yourself, so how are you supposed to make anything decent with samples and presets and synth engines that are so weak? That's right, stripped to bare bones FL is ****. The thing I hate most about FL is the childish GUI and awkward layout which is why I hate it.. The only thing that keeps me sticking with FL is the piano roll/step sequencer and nothing more. Ableton and Reason have the worst in my opinion but again subjective. If it wasn't for that I would have switched to reason a long ass time ago.

sameal 9th November 2014 04:29 AM

Fl studio isn't bad. I just don't think it's a full blown d.a.w.

I see it as another sequencer. One im not a huge fan of programming on. But if you locked me in a cage and gave me only fl studio, you bet id use it.

Spaceemaster 9th November 2014 05:40 AM

I used to use fl studio and I hated it and loved it. The step sequencer is the only thing I miss cause using protools grid as one has some limitations. And fls plugins were actually not that bad. I used wasp and the other little synths and got some cool vintage sounds. I demoed almost all the major daws and protools is what stuck... Love the layout and forces me to play my instrument rather than click things in.

qb748t394 9th November 2014 05:47 AM

the Env Controller is one of the sickest things I've ever seen... the sweet envelopes in FL are amazing... being able to add as many points as you want, along with modifying the curve... that thing is sooo great.

however, fl has needed a gui overhaul for years... yeah, the whole "fruity" this and "fruity" that... it begs you not to take it seriously.

little strawberries and oranges?... c'mon now?

ImNotDedyet 9th November 2014 05:48 AM

I wouldn't say it's **** - it works for many people. I started on it, thought it was pretty cool at first until I started getting deeper. And I find the piano roll annoyingly frustrating whereas Ableton's is tons easier for me to use. It all comes down to preferences and how you work. FL just confused the hell out of me.

And Live's stock plugins have some duds as well as I'm sure the other major DAWs do as well.

Spaceemaster 9th November 2014 06:22 AM

Yea that's another thing the curves.... Protools sucks at automation...

login 9th November 2014 08:22 AM

Ableton live comes IHMO with two good instruments: Operator and Sampler, the rest meh, usable but nothing to write about.

Harmar is a beat better than anything in live.

apartment dog 9th November 2014 10:04 AM

What I don't get is this thinking in extremes, great or ****.
And to judge it by what it comes with is also a bit strange to me.
Who cares, there is so much good stuff out there, cheap and free.
There's some good music made with FL Studio and it's a great DAW to work out ideas.
Nothing wrong with using it next to another DAW or as a vst in another DAW.
Slicex is great also.
I learned from using FL after a long time of Cubase and now I integrate that way of working in my current DAW Reaper.
That alone is of great value to me.

218 9th November 2014 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondering Pigeon (Post 10542003)
Now don't get me wrong, I have used nothing but FL for 4 years I was a fanboy... But after witnessing all the great new versions of daws recently being released like Reason 8, Cubase 7 and Logic pro X, I finally understood why FL is frowned upon and gets so much hate. I'll start with a prelude. I understand that it has nothing to do with the daw and it's all about the user.. But that's a subjective con to people who are poor or on a budget. Although FL comes with some great plugins like Harmor.. and.. Well that's the only Plugin it comes with that's worth noting.. I mean yeah Poizon, 3x osc, and sytrus are good, but then you have flops like wasp, harmless and autogun. They just aren't that powerful in my opinion. And the stock samples I.e drums/loops/one shots are just the worst I've ever heard.. and if that wasn't bad enough you literally only get a few plugins even buying the signature bundle only give you maximus and sytrus, yeah they are pre loaded but you have to buy them in order to actually use them so Harmor/Poizon/Harmless all useless. It's like FL is just a coloring book that doesn't come with crayons, you have to buy them all yourself, so how are you supposed to make anything decent with samples and presets and synth engines that are so weak? That's right, stripped to bare bones FL is ****. The thing I hate most about FL is the childish GUI and awkward layout which is why I hate it.. The only thing that keeps me sticking with FL is the piano roll/step sequencer and nothing more. Ableton and Reason have the worst in my opinion but again subjective. If it wasn't for that I would have switched to reason a long ass time ago.

Zzzzzzzz!

Wondering Pigeon 9th November 2014 05:37 PM

I was saying that FL in it's raw state doesn't have much to offer sound wise. Yeah it's a great daw that has become an industry standard believe it or not, but if someone experienced was to try and make a song with nothing but stock plugins and samples with FL who never used it they'd have a really bad time. I may not like ProTools, but it offers the best selection of stock samples and vsts I've ever heard or used, same as cubase and reason. There's two things that make a daw stand out, the users capabilities and coming with stock vsts and samples good enough that you don't have to use or rely on 3rd party.

MUSICMUSIC 9th November 2014 05:46 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CfCmoEixxro

brianbotkiller 9th November 2014 07:22 PM

FL studio is a tool, just like any other tool, and it works for some, and for others not so much. Next conversation

qb748t394 9th November 2014 08:41 PM

the daw comes with a bunch of demo projects that use nothing but stock stuff... and I would not call those tracks low quality by any means.

sure there are some lame aspects of FL (i.e. the "fruity" theme) and for many, it was their 1st DAW, but, just because it was someone's 1st, doesn't mean it's trash.

On a desert island that has nothing but FL though?.. I think we'd be fine.

apartment dog 9th November 2014 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondering Pigeon (Post 10542873)
There's two things that make a daw stand out, the users capabilities and coming with stock vsts and samples good enough that you don't have to use or rely on 3rd party.

I don't agree, maybe to you it is. It's not a fact.

RZR 9th November 2014 11:06 PM

FL is THE BEST when it comes to laying down (sketching) a song fast - the piano roll, the step sequencer are killer. The native plugins are very powerful when used right. There are tons of tutorials available.

Yes, it may not be the ideal DAW to record a full orchestra with, but when it comes to electronic music and synthesizers, there's no simpler & quicker option.

And fwiw there are TONS of good (and some really excellent) freeware plugins that cover all your needs - from instruments, to mastering tools. That also goes for free samples.

And unlike other DAWs, FL comes with free for life update - considering it's not a pricey DAW to begin with, that alone is worth getting it.

There's a reason why so many ppl still prefer it over other more complex (although the latest FL versions are far from basic) DAWs: it just works.

Feel free to hate it, but take your time to actually understand the reason behind it - its meant to help you build a song fast and that's exactly what it excells at. Nothing less, nothing more.

And it also has an export feature for a reason ;)

Steve Fogal 10th November 2014 02:49 AM

I tried Fruity Loops years ago, seemed like a toy for kids or for people who are beginners with limited no musical skills...which is fine, it's another tool for those who need it. Much like a kid with training wheels, everyone needs to start somewhere.

p_marrison 10th November 2014 03:22 AM

Cubase 7 is a good DAW? lol. i used cubase for years but it got worse and worse. Studio One is where its at !

brianbotkiller 10th November 2014 06:31 AM

countdown to yet another useless gearslutz argument

3... 2... 1...

Kinh222 10th November 2014 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondering Pigeon
I was saying that FL in it's raw state doesn't have much to offer sound wise. Yeah it's a great daw that has become an industry standard believe it or not, but if someone experienced was to try and make a song with nothing but stock plugins and samples with FL who never used it they'd have a really bad time. I may not like ProTools, but it offers the best selection of stock samples and vsts I've ever heard or used, same as cubase and reason. There's two things that make a daw stand out, the users capabilities and coming with stock vsts and samples good enough that you don't have to use or rely on 3rd party.

You are completely wrong about the FL stock presets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9U...7S-Qf1UfuE6Dot
This guy makes EDM with the greatest of ease and pro quality all with stock plugins in FL.

Many pro EDM producers start with very basic sound, a simple initial patch and do a lot with very little. They dont use presets from other plugins as much as you may think. FL runs rings around protools (the most revered DAW on the market) as far as midi goes and midi is the foundation for EDM...you got a good midi DAW and you know what your doing with additive synthesis then the skys the limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceemaster
Yea that's another thing the curves.... Protools sucks at automation...

Found a way around this, its called "The LFO Tool". You can program curves or any shape in segments then trigger them via a midi track from the keyboard. It does volume and filter modulation and the filter is great quality. Only costs $50.

Mivo 10th November 2014 10:31 AM

The stock plugins matter initially, perhaps, but who doesn't sooner or later focus on third party plugs anyway? So is Reaper also "****" because it includes no instruments worth mentioning?

That's the problem with fanboys. They go from annoying people with their hyping and advocating product X to annoying people by bashing and hating the same product eventually, and then they repeat the cycle while still not making worthwhile music.

RZR 10th November 2014 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Fogal (Post 10543829)
I tried Fruity Loops years ago, seemed like a toy for kids or for people who are beginners with limited no musical skills...which is fine, it's another tool for those who need it. Much like a kid with training wheels, everyone needs to start somewhere.

Are you sure it was FL Studio and not eJay? :lol:

There's nothing toyish about FL. It doesn't rely on premade loops & kits - you have to build a song from the ground up, pretty much like in any other DAW. The main difference is the easiness of working with VST instruments - which is dead easy & lightning fast. The mixer is a bit limited compared to other DAWs (but it's getting addressed in the next version) and it lacks very in depth mastering tools, but other than that, it's a full fledged DAW.

On a different note: what sort of complaint is that about the stock presets? Who relies on DAW loops - like seriously? :facepalm:

CPhoenix 10th November 2014 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondering Pigeon (Post 10542003)
Now don't get me wrong, I have used nothing but FL for 4 years I was a fanboy... But after witnessing all the great new versions of daws recently being released like Reason 8, Cubase 7 and Logic pro X, I finally understood why FL is frowned upon and gets so much hate. I'll start with a prelude. I understand that it has nothing to do with the daw and it's all about the user.. But that's a subjective con to people who are poor or on a budget. Although FL comes with some great plugins like Harmor.. and.. Well that's the only Plugin it comes with that's worth noting.. I mean yeah Poizon, 3x osc, and sytrus are good, but then you have flops like wasp, harmless and autogun. They just aren't that powerful in my opinion. And the stock samples I.e drums/loops/one shots are just the worst I've ever heard.. and if that wasn't bad enough you literally only get a few plugins even buying the signature bundle only give you maximus and sytrus, yeah they are pre loaded but you have to buy them in order to actually use them so Harmor/Poizon/Harmless all useless. It's like FL is just a coloring book that doesn't come with crayons, you have to buy them all yourself, so how are you supposed to make anything decent with samples and presets and synth engines that are so weak? That's right, stripped to bare bones FL is ****. The thing I hate most about FL is the childish GUI and awkward layout which is why I hate it.. The only thing that keeps me sticking with FL is the piano roll/step sequencer and nothing more. Ableton and Reason have the worst in my opinion but again subjective. If it wasn't for that I would have switched to reason a long ass time ago.

If these are the gripes, I think you're missing the point.

First off, I haven't touched FL Studio since FL Studio 4 back in 2003/2004. I demo'd it again a few years back and I still don't like it. I started on FL, moved to Reason, then Cubase, now Studio One.

If third party VSTs & sound libraries didn't exist then I would agree with you complete. However... I don't think it's fair to frown on a DAW solution b/c it's instruments/sounds/effects aren't very good. I just think those things are a bonus, and what you should be really paying attention to is workflow & features. Everything else is probably going to be improved with third party solutions anyway.

Why spend energy caring about Sytrus / Poizon / etc when you can just grab 1 or 2 very good synths to use within the FL Studio framework?

Why not focus on the step sequencer / mixer / sequencer / automation / midi abilities / etc to base the evaluation off of?

Steve Fogal 10th November 2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RZR (Post 10544577)
Are you sure it was FL Studio and not eJay? :lol:

There's nothing toyish about FL. It doesn't rely on premade loops & kits - you have to build a song from the ground up, pretty much like in any other DAW. The main difference is the easiness of working with VST instruments - which is dead easy & lightning fast. The mixer is a bit limited compared to other DAWs (but it's getting addressed in the next version) and it lacks very in depth mastering tools, but other than that, it's a full fledged DAW.

On a different note: what sort of complaint is that about the stock presets? Who relies on DAW loops - like seriously? :facepalm:

Not sure what eJay is confoosed As a beginner back then (way back in the hey-days of Cubase VST 5/32..what? 15 years ago???) I tried 'whatever' version FL was... I didn't know anything about DAW's or computers at that time...even still, I though FL was for NOOBS, hip-hopper & (c)rappers wearing pants down to their ankes, as opposed to REAL musicians hidz

jkthtyrt

sameal 10th November 2014 04:27 PM

While I find wearing your pants half way down your ass kind of annoying, and probably uncomfortable and inefficient to do, I don't feel it has any reflection on the quality of the musician, or rap/hip hop in general.

That's like looking at the 1970's punks and saying their not "real" musicians, because of their ripped clothes, leather jackets, safety pins and swazi's.

How does a real musician dress?

Muser 10th November 2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameal (Post 10544876)
How does a real musician dress?

right down the middle

Spaceemaster 10th November 2014 07:08 PM

It really doesn't matter I can basically get the same sounds in fl studio as I can in protools. Just fl studio I feel is more toward beginners... Simple routing for example... And I work with more audio not midi... And I like some of the fl studio plugins better than the stock protools plugins... Just my opinion...

Mivo 10th November 2014 07:24 PM

Is this where we "enrich" the conversation with the comment that REAL musicians play REAL instruments? ;)

CPhoenix 10th November 2014 07:27 PM

I know lots of producers who "really" play keys who use FL Studio.

IMO when you can play keys (and play well.. not just tap some keys that you read were in the scale), you now play an instrument and are a musician. Doesn't matter exactly what you're triggering.

apartment dog 10th November 2014 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mivo (Post 10544270)
That's the problem with fanboys. They go from annoying people with their hyping and advocating product X to annoying people by bashing and hating the same product eventually, and then they repeat the cycle while still not making worthwhile music.

:lol:

JoeyM 10th November 2014 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_marrison (Post 10543874)
Cubase 7 is a good DAW? lol. i used cubase for years but it got worse and worse. Studio One is where its at !

Yeah if it came down to a choice between the two, I'd go with StudioOne.

If Murphy's Law strikes, FLStudio (in my case was) a monster to register, at least StudioOne (and Reaper) will run crippled, but they'll get you through. Not that StudioOne was fun to register either, it requires online reciprocation. But it'll get you through.

There's something to be said for Reaper and Kenny Gioia videos.