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flatuswalrus 9th March 2014 08:51 AM

Advice / opinions about my pedal order
 
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have been playing guitar for 17 years but only ever as a hobby at home (bedroom rock-star). I have never really bothered getting into the technical side of anything to do with it though. I have always had pedals but never all together or on a pedal-board. Though I purchased a Pedaltrain PT-PRO-SC recently and wish to put one together. I was wanting to put the below mentioned 17 pedals on it (yes I'm a pedal floozie, I know I'm not the only one). I know there is a general rule of pedal order, but really it's where it sounds good to the user/player. Though, main things I am curious about is:

1) Tuner then wah or wah then tuner?
2) Fuzz Factory first or with other distortion/fuzz?
3) If Zvex should go first would Big Muff be good more towards start also?
4) Not sure exactly where to put the MC-401.
5) Not sure if I am going to actually use the NS-2, seems to ruin sustain etc.

Anyway, here are my pedals in the order I am thinking of putting them. Any help, opinions or changes to the bellow would be much appreciated (hope this is the correct thread).

ZVex Vexter Series Fuzz Factory
Boss TU-3 Chromatic Tuner
Maxon AF-9 Auto Filter
Dunlop JC95 Wah
DigiTech Whammy V
Keeley 4 Knob Compressor
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
Electro-Harmonix Little Big Muff
Wampler Triple Wreck Distortion
MXR CAE MC-401 Boost/Line Driver
Flickinger Vicious Cricket Tremolo
Moogerfooger MF-103 Phaser
TC Electronic Corona Chorus
Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Boy
Electro-Harmonix Micro Pog
TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb
TC Electronic Ditto Looper

Please note, I just have the Micro Pog running through the effects loop of the Memory Boy.

eve69 9th March 2014 01:48 PM

too many pedals, brah.
keep it ten or less, each one attenuates highs a slight percentage. then the order goes like this
tuner, wah/whammy/other expression pedal, overdrive/distorts, modultions, line driver/buffer =if needed=. place the noise gate anywhere, or place the overdrives on the noise gate loop

Marcus Mars 9th March 2014 09:22 PM

In general I'd put effect pedals in the following order:

1) Compressor
2) OD/Distortion
3) Modulation
4) Reverbs/Delays

I would only change eventually the compressor position, but only if I am after a particular solution for a sound and always before delay/reverb.

whiteaxxxe 9th March 2014 09:54 PM

oh, my god ...

Edoardo 10th March 2014 01:48 AM

Put the compressor before anything else. Then get some buffer/booster. I mean, a couple of them. and a couple of loops at least. Out of curiosity, what's after these pedals?

flatuswalrus 10th March 2014 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eve69 (Post 9923563)
too many pedals, brah.

For you yes, but for me no.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9925168)
Out of curiosity, what's after these pedals?

Sorry not sure what you mean? The pedals I listed is all of them and they are listed in the order I was thinking of putting them in, pretty much.
Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe (Post 9924565)
oh, my god ...

Give us each day our daily bread.

Edoardo 10th March 2014 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eve69 (Post 9923563)
too many pedals, brah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9925917)
For you yes, but for me no.

He was speaking from a merely electronic point of view.


Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe (Post 9924565)
oh, my god ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9925917)
Give us each day our daily bread.

Nothing to joke about, I think it's what each one of us thought.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9925168)
Put the compressor before anything else. Then get some buffer/booster. I mean, a couple of them. and a couple of loops at least. Out of curiosity, what's after these pedals?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9925917)
Sorry not sure what you mean? The pedals I listed is all of them and they are listed in the order I was thinking of putting them in, pretty much.

What kind of amp do you use? Does it feature an effects loop or not? if so, serial or parallel?

Thanks

Edoardo 10th March 2014 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9923208)
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster here.

Tuner then wah or wah then tuner?

ZVex Vexter Series Fuzz Factory
Boss TU-3 Chromatic Tuner
Maxon AF-9 Auto Filter
Dunlop JC95 Wah
DigiTech Whammy V

Keeley 4 Knob Compressor
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
Electro-Harmonix Little Big Muff
Wampler Triple Wreck Distortion
MXR CAE MC-401 Boost/Line Driver
Flickinger Vicious Cricket Tremolo
Moogerfooger MF-103 Phaser
TC Electronic Corona Chorus
Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Boy
Electro-Harmonix Micro Pog
TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb
TC Electronic Ditto Looper

Please note, I just have the Micro Pog running through the effects loop of the Memory Boy.

What do you use the Digitech Whammy for?
Why THREE wha's?
Why 2 fuzzes? do you run them at the same time?
how do you connect the TCelectronic looper?
Does that chorus work like a delay or like a phase inverter?

Doesn't the tuner have a truebypass out? anyway, there are pedals to be put first in the chain (such as the Ernie ball volume pedals) that feature a tuner out.

My list would be:

tuner (bypassed if possible)
compressor (before anything else)
octave generator (before anything else but compression)
line driver (before the wha that's a tone sucker)
wha
fuzz/distortion (right before the preamp)

in the amps effects loop if possible (after the preamp):

tremolo (that's built-in in some preamps, makes sense to put it first)
phaser/chorus (that's modulation)
delay
reverb

nedorama 10th March 2014 03:42 PM

No right or wrong order to hook them up. Experiment and move things around to hear what you like, which may be different from everyone else. Some like fuzz before wah, some after. Personal preference vs. right and wrong.

On the NS-2, try playing with the settings so that it doesn't cut off. You may find that the Rocktron unit is worth upgrading to down the road; it's a lot more transparent on tone than the Boss unit (heard both at my local music store this weekend).

On my pedalboard, I have:
Wah (modded to true bypass)
Compressor
EP Boost
Suhr Shiba Drive
Barber Direct Drive
Fuzz Head (as a boost)
true bypass loop 1 - Keeley Katana as clean boost
true bybass loop 2 - Ibanez AD9 delay, Ibanez chorus or MXR Phase 90
TC Flashback delay

A true bypass looper could help get some of your pedals out of your signal path when you're not using them and mean less toe-tapping or trying to tap pedals in the back.

What amp are you using and what style of music?

trumq 10th March 2014 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
tremolo (that's built-in in some preamps, makes sense to put it first)
[snip]
reverb

In Fender amps, the tremolo comes after the reverb. Obviously works either way, but with heavier tremolo this is a very characteristic effect in Psychedelic music.

Edoardo 10th March 2014 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trumq (Post 9926620)
In Fender amps, the tremolo comes after the reverb. Obviously works either way, but with heavier tremolo this is a very characteristic effect in Psychedelic music.

Thanks for the point, I have to admit I just didn't know this! :)

flatuswalrus 11th March 2014 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926168)
He was speaking from a merely electronic point of view.

I understand, though the tone-suckingness and any minor hum are a trade off for the sheer enjoyability and variety I get from my set-up.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926168)
Nothing to joke about, I think it's what each one of us thought.

Of course it is something to definitely joke about, why not? No point in being alive if you can't have a laugh every once in a while.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926168)
What kind of amp do you use? Does it feature an effects loop or not? if so, serial or parallel?Thanks

I am using a clean amp that does not have an effects loop: Classic 20 | Tone Pig
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
Why THREE wha's?

Versatility and variety I guess. I find each three produces sound(s) which are significantly different that the other two cannot do. I just really enjoy having all three.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
Why 2 fuzzes? do you run them at the same time?

I don't run them at the same time. I like the smooth "normal" fuzz sound of the Muff and sometimes the more crazy and gritty sound that the Zvex makes. Just two pedals I get a lot of pleasure out of.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
how do you connect the TCelectronic looper?

It is last in the chain.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
Doesn't the tuner have a truebypass out? anyway, there are pedals to be put first in the chain (such as the Ernie ball volume pedals) that feature a tuner out.

It does, though I do not have any pedals that feature a tuner-out.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9926332)
line driver (before the wha that's a tone sucker)

I didn't realize that, I will definitely have a play with it in different positions.
Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama (Post 9926466)
You may find that the Rocktron unit is worth upgrading to down the road; it's a lot more transparent on tone than the Boss unit (heard both at my local music store this weekend).

Never heard of it before, will definitely look that up, thanks.
Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama (Post 9926466)
A true bypass looper could help get some of your pedals out of your signal path when you're not using them and mean less toe-tapping or trying to tap pedals in the back.

Yeah I have thought about that for sure, guess I should have gone with the Pedaltrain GRANDE, ha ha.
Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama (Post 9926466)
What amp are you using and what style of music?

Honestly, anything and everything. I don't play much of other people's stuff but just improvise and muck around for the most part.

Thanks all for the feedback, really appreciated.

John Eppstein 11th March 2014 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9923208)
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have been playing guitar for 17 years but only ever as a hobby at home (bedroom rock-star). I have never really bothered getting into the technical side of anything to do with it though. I have always had pedals but never all together or on a pedal-board. Though I purchased a Pedaltrain PT-PRO-SC recently and wish to put one together. I was wanting to put the below mentioned 17 pedals on it (yes I'm a pedal floozie, I know I'm not the only one). I know there is a general rule of pedal order, but really it's where it sounds good to the user/player. Though, main things I am curious about is:

1) Tuner then wah or wah then tuner?
2) Fuzz Factory first or with other distortion/fuzz?
3) If Zvex should go first would Big Muff be good more towards start also?
4) Not sure exactly where to put the MC-401.
5) Not sure if I am going to actually use the NS-2, seems to ruin sustain etc.

Anyway, here are my pedals in the order I am thinking of putting them. Any help, opinions or changes to the bellow would be much appreciated (hope this is the correct thread).

ZVex Vexter Series Fuzz Factory
Boss TU-3 Chromatic Tuner
Maxon AF-9 Auto Filter
Dunlop JC95 Wah
DigiTech Whammy V
Keeley 4 Knob Compressor
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
Electro-Harmonix Little Big Muff
Wampler Triple Wreck Distortion
MXR CAE MC-401 Boost/Line Driver
Flickinger Vicious Cricket Tremolo
Moogerfooger MF-103 Phaser
TC Electronic Corona Chorus
Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Boy
Electro-Harmonix Micro Pog
TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb
TC Electronic Ditto Looper

Please note, I just have the Micro Pog running through the effects loop of the Memory Boy.

:facepalm:

John Eppstein 11th March 2014 11:02 AM

Jeezez krist, man, learn to play the friggin' guitar!

The more you learn to play, the less you'll need the toys.

Even Hendrix only needed a half dozen or so pedals - what do you think you are, a music shop?

flatuswalrus 11th March 2014 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929427)
Jeezez krist, man, learn to play the friggin' guitar!

That is a really ignorant comment man. You wouldn't have the foggiest idea of my playing ability. I guess I won't be ignorant though and judge this forum based on your comment alone.
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929427)
The more you learn to play, the less you'll need the toys.

For you maybe, but guess what? We are not all the same because wouldn't the world be a boring place then!
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929427)
Even Hendrix only needed a half dozen or so pedals

So anyone who plays the guitar has to aspire to be or try to replicate him?
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929427)
what do you think you are, a music shop?

Nope, I think I am a guy who enjoys playing the guitar and by having a number of pedals that is more then you or someone else would have isn't hurting anyone.
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929417)
:facepalm:

Thanks for the insightful comments.

Edoardo 11th March 2014 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein (Post 9929427)
Jeezez krist, man, learn to play the friggin' guitar!

The more you learn to play, the less you'll need the toys.

Even Hendrix only needed a half dozen or so pedals - what do you think you are, a music shop?

I really laughed out loud reading this.

You (John, not the OP) just reminded me of a guy who used to drink only € 0.80 espressos when out with the lads, bought himself a pedal a week "to sound like X or Y"... it was just an unmanageable wash of sound during the rehearsal, with his all those effects, the random wha and that cheap digital amp on 11.

He just firmly refuse to switch anything off, or to let me touch any knob.
So I told him "hey, let's see if your clean amp sounds better than mine". challenge accepted. And we realized the poor guy could not hold a chord. :facepalm:

Edoardo 11th March 2014 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9929360)

I am using a clean amp that does not have an effects loop: Classic 20 | Tone Pig

Looks like a very well built amp, congrats! kfhkh I was really afraid of the answer, that's a relief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9929360)
Versatility and variety I guess. I find each three produces sound(s) which are significantly different that the other two cannot do. I just really enjoy having all three.



I don't run them at the same time. I like the smooth "normal" fuzz sound of the Muff and sometimes the more crazy and gritty sound that the Zvex makes. Just two pedals I get a lot of pleasure out of.


Fine. Instead of the longest pedal chain I've ever read about, you may want to have some kind of looper that allows you to have different switchable pedal chains.

this is a very big one for instance:
Carl Martin Octaswitch 2

but there are 2 and 4-switch versions.

It may be more practical, pedal-board friendly and do a lot about noise reduction.

Edoardo 11th March 2014 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatuswalrus (Post 9929575)
That is a really ignorant comment man. You wouldn't have the foggiest idea of my playing ability. I guess I won't be ignorant though and judge this forum based on your comment alone.

That's harsh, but not ignorant at all.

I have to tell that the way you've introduced yourself leads to some prejudice... especially guys who have always been as much restrained as possible in using effects in order to sound as professional as possible.

I've left my prejudice apart and tried to be as constructive as possible - without bashing you a priori, let's say. I do want to help in making you sound more professional. Everybody here does. We're here for that.

I guess you may not want to play just for yourself in your bedroom for the rest of your life. Nobody does.

You have a well-built amp. Everybody's trying to tell you that you should exploit that in order to develop your playing style.

whatever you playing skills are.


17 pedals connected like that WILL suck your tone out. And that will not allow you to grow. That's the point.


cheers.

kennybro 11th March 2014 02:51 PM

You're obviously pedal drunk; a victim of GC marketing propaganda. Get youself to Pedalholic Ananamous, quickly! Then, find your nirvana with a max of 4 or 5 tone suckers. Maybe; Keeley > Corona Chorus (or Mooger) > HOF > Ditto > AMP. Lose the pedal tuner and get a Snark. When this is under control, carefully choose one OD and put it after the Keeley.

That's a full boat! Seriously, give it a try. I know there will be excruciating withdrawals, but the pain will subside and new frontiers will be revealed the further you descend into the maelstrom of minimalism.

fistikuffs 11th March 2014 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9929597)
I really laughed out loud reading this.

You (John, not the OP) just reminded me of a guy who used to drink only € 0.80 espressos when out with the lads, bought himself a pedal a week "to sound like X or Y"... it was just an unmanageable wash of sound during the rehearsal, with his all those effects, the random wha and that cheap digital amp on 11.

He just firmly refuse to switch anything off, or to let me touch any knob.
So I told him "hey, let's see if your clean amp sounds better than mine". challenge accepted. And we realized the poor guy could not hold a chord. :facepalm:

Unless you are doing it exactly like John then you're doing it wrong. kfhkh

Edoardo 11th March 2014 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fistikuffs (Post 9929874)
Unless you are doing it exactly like John then you're doing it wrong. kfhkh

I don't know if it's sarchasm or not, I've just tried to translate John's and others' replies into something constructive for a reluctant fellow. Playing clean & dry is the only way to improve and get out of the bedroom.

fistikuffs 11th March 2014 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9929904)
I don't know if it's sarchasm or not, I've just tried to translate John's and others' replies into something constructive for a reluctant fellow. Playing clean & dry is the only way to improve and get out of the bedroom.

It's sarcasm, but I suppose there's nothing wrong with Johns dismissive and nonconstructive replies if there's people around to clean up after him.

Imagine asking what order your pedals should be and getting the answer "you can't play". Terrible.

The OP didn't ask for advice on getting out of his bedroom either.

nedorama 11th March 2014 04:34 PM

I guess we should also tell Paul McCartney's band that they're idiots, since both guitarists have 12+ pedals on their pedalboard…

there's nothing inherently wrong with pedals, and for some types of music, you may need more. I happily live in both camps - fine to just plug into one of my Fenders, but I have my pedalboard for playing live because different songs demand different tones. Two overdrives? Why not? My Barber, Suhr, Timmy and MXR Distortion II all sound different. May not have all 4 on the pedalboard at the same time, but tonal variety can be a good thing.

To each his own. Agree that a lot of pedals can be a flag for a newbie hiding behind lack of chops, but it can also be an artistic choice.

Edoardo 11th March 2014 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fistikuffs (Post 9929992)
It's sarcasm, but I suppose there's nothing wrong with Johns dismissive and nonconstructive replies if there's people around to clean up after him.

Imagine asking what order your pedals should be and getting the answer "you can't play". Terrible.

The OP didn't ask for advice on getting out of his bedroom either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama (Post 9930146)
I guess we should also tell Paul McCartney's band that they're idiots, since both guitarists have 12+ pedals on their pedalboard…

there's nothing inherently wrong with pedals, and for some types of music, you may need more. I happily live in both camps - fine to just plug into one of my Fenders, but I have my pedalboard for playing live because different songs demand different tones. Two overdrives? Why not? My Barber, Suhr, Timmy and MXR Distortion II all sound different. May not have all 4 on the pedalboard at the same time, but tonal variety can be a good thing.

To each his own. Agree that a lot of pedals can be a flag for a newbie hiding behind lack of chops, but it can also be an artistic choice.

It is not me who said the OP cannot play. I didn't want to clean up John's and others' unpolite replies.
I just wanted to state clearly that though I am not taking for granted that the OP is hiding behind pedals nor that he's is a marketing victim, I'm trying to help, and that setup cannot deliver a greater or more professional sound than his amp alone would, nor help him in developing his skills.
And we are all developing, nevermind where we've arrived.

nedorama 11th March 2014 05:32 PM

Edoardo - my comment wasn't directed at you per se.

fistikuffs 11th March 2014 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo (Post 9930245)
It is not me who said the OP cannot play. I didn't want to clean up John's and others' unpolite replies.
I just wanted to state clearly that though I am not taking for granted that the OP is hiding behind pedals nor that he's is a marketing victim, I'm trying to help, and that setup cannot deliver a greater or more professional sound than his amp alone would, nor help him in developing his skills.
And we are all developing, nevermind where we've arrived.

Apologies Edoardo, I wasn't trying to get at you, I understand that you were being helpful. peachh

Edoardo 11th March 2014 09:47 PM

no-one has to apologies, I fully understand. Just trying to make the "most widespread" opinion - and mine - to get through. I hope the OP wasn't discouraged.

Pchicago 11th March 2014 10:17 PM

Walrus,

You've got time..messa round with it, break all the rules and invent some..there is NO way most folks could begin to suggest an order for that pile o pedals.

I would suggest calling up a YOUNGER Robin Trower..but, I think you've got him beat by a serious stretch. I saw him in the late 70's at the International Amphitheater in Chicago and the dude had a pedal board that was just huge..I think he's cleaned up his act these days..Doesn't matter cause Robin's probably half deaf anyway because that was one of THE loudest shows I've ever survived.

I use 4 pedals (5 counting the tuner). Any more than that and I'm losing focus and second guessing myself..lunging for the knobs in an endless and egregious attempt to find the perfect combo..and then forgetting it and continuing that crazy search, on and on.

I do understand the couple of 'face palms' you got. : )

when I first opened this thread I thought to myself..man, I can't even begin to wrap my brain around any of that..

Your biggest challenge is not falling over and breaking your hip when trying to hit a button 4 rows up and to the left.

Though, power to YOU..whatever floats your boat, go for it and have fun with it.


If it's any encouragement..I knew guy in my town who was a regular player around the band scene..He was a pretty crazy dude, and, that said, very likeable and talented.

He had quite a pedal board and I thought he was brilliant with it..he worked very hard at making it work for him and created some incredible sounds with it. The bands he led were always pushing the envelope soundwise (because of him) and I loved what he did with all those little boxes..he really worked the whole thing as an instrument and when it came time for a show he had his **** together as far as getting set for each song and making the necessary "clicks" inside of the song..pretty amazing and he was usually just completely falling down HAMMERED when performing.

kennybro 11th March 2014 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama (Post 9930146)
...there's nothing inherently wrong with pedals, and for some types of music, you may need more. I happily live in both camps - fine to just plug into one of my Fenders, but I have my pedalboard for playing live because different songs demand different tones. Two overdrives? Why not? My Barber, Suhr, Timmy and MXR Distortion II all sound different. May not have all 4 on the pedalboard at the same time, but tonal variety can be a good thing.

To each his own. Agree that a lot of pedals can be a flag for a newbie hiding behind lack of chops, but it can also be an artistic choice.

Good points. Lots of pedals isn't always a bad choice. But there is far more overkill out there than the well-considered pedalboards of Anderson and Ray. I guess if you had to nail tones from every Beatles album plus all of McCartney's solo stuff, 12 pedals might be considered minimalist approach. I would guess that each pedal was carefully added for specific purpose.

That said, I went to hear a very famous player recently (we all know him) who has about 25 pedals. He looked like he was killing roaches up there, but every darn thing he played sounded the same (except I heard a roto speaker pedal sound at one point). He also changed guitars about 15 times through the show, and the only time you could tell was when he went acoustic solo. Overkill, even on the big stage from a great player.

I just know soooooooo many players who keep buying pedals because they think it's going to save their asses. I know nobody locally who uses a lot of pedals because they actually need all of them. They are basically toys, and I doubt that the audience really notices the tone difference between an OCD and a Tube Screamer.

But everyone needs to groove the way that makes them feel good, and spend their cash as they deem necessary. Giant pedalboards just crack me up because I always see 25 pedals, but hear like 2 or 3 tones. Not to mention that massive pedal boards always come complete with connectivity issues; and always right in the middle of a song. That's damn aggravating when you're the singer. The reality just never satisfies the theory.

Edoardo 11th March 2014 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennybro (Post 9931203)
I know nobody locally who uses a lot of pedals because they actually need all of them. They are basically toys, and I doubt that the audience really notices the tone difference between an OCD and a Tube Screamer.

Giant pedalboards just crack me up because I always see 25 pedals, but hear like 2 or 3 tones.

Really? I know so many people with ****ty SS amp and asian instrument that have like, all the kinds of "metal" stompboxes, wha's (just cause you need one), automatic whas, delays and whatever.
I have recently seen a mate who plays bass, he spent most of the show tweaking the feedback (or whatever) knob of his delay. Like, literally half the show on the ground. Plays a couple of notes and kneels down to tweak the sustain/feedback whatever on his pedalboard in order to produce his own weird delayed sound while everybody else's actually wondering what the matter is with his rig. :lol: dude get a synth.