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-   Q+A with Bruce Swedien (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-bruce-swedien/)
-   -   What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-bruce-swedien/83262-what-effect-choir-man-mirror.html)

Bruce Swedien 28th August 2006 08:24 PM

What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”?
 
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many times!!!

Bruce
boing boing boing kfhkh

Chris Parsons 28th August 2006 08:36 PM

Bruce! What's the effect on the choir in "Man In The Mirror"??? cooge

stevep 28th August 2006 09:17 PM

Please do Tell ...........heh heh heh



steve



peachh

Mike Jasper 28th August 2006 09:38 PM

I would guess that it's an Evantide Harmonizer, but I guess it isn't since that's so obvious.

Jasper

Dor 28th August 2006 10:23 PM

Bruce, I'm guessing it's just Michael's ultra tight harmonies.

Led 28th August 2006 11:15 PM

I always thought it was just the sound of the room they were recorded in. I certainly remember the first time I heard it where they kick in on the word "change" and it feel like everything gets like twice as wide. I also loved the "hoo hoos". A great arrangement and a great recording. I'll have to have another listen when I get to the studio today. Always makes my hair stand up, that part of the track. Any hints?
Nicely done Viking.
Cheers

Lowdbrent 28th August 2006 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien (Post 855953)
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce boing boing boing kfhkh


I thought that I had read that you recorded the choir with two 47s in M/S config. Was that right?

Jeff Goodman 28th August 2006 11:37 PM

That great big sound....

If I remember correctly it's .....Mono!!!

One mic with the chorus positioned around it.

Is that correct?

Have I been under a wrong impression all this time?

BTW: It's great to have you here.

alloysound 29th August 2006 12:57 AM

My guess / recollection
 
M50's Omni X-Y ??

kennyfm 29th August 2006 02:01 AM

I'm not sure what the technical effect was but I would assume having the Winans and Andrae Crouch folks as the choir contributed to the great sound on the background kfhkh kfhkh

Led 29th August 2006 05:25 AM

Ok, I've had a listen now, definately some faint swirling there. Is it a leslie cabinet, or maybe a bit o dimension-d? Or possibly some tight rapid rate flanging?
I'm leaning towards the leslie cabinet,in parallel with the original vocals.
Yes, that is my final answer, lock it in please.

nadsatrebel 29th August 2006 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien (Post 855953)
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce boing boing boing kfhkh

Vocal Arrangement by Andrae Crouch


boing kfhkh boing

texdc 29th August 2006 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Goodman (Post 856209)
If I remember correctly it's .....Mono!!!

Hmm...not likely as Bruce seems to favor the stereophonic sound. confoosed

Care to set the record straight, Mr. Swedien?

BigAl 29th August 2006 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien (Post 855953)
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce boing boing boing kfhkh

Humm....I think it's a true stereo effect with the mic positions. After you got the stereo link recorded, then you put a slight L-pan to it. I also believe that the choir stood back from the mic at a distance.

Well...I just took a shot at it. You guys are much better than me.jkthtyrt

--Al

lasso 29th August 2006 09:44 AM

Doesn't sound that like much effect at all - except for what sounds like a litle distortion - maybe a hard driven tape dealy? At the very last line of the choir it seems to wobble a bit. My guess - hard driven tape / tape dealygooof

BoW 29th August 2006 10:36 AM

ear training
 
Hello, Bruce Swedien,

could it be..

A pair of Neumann M49's in Blumlein-Configuration. I once read in an article, that you use to position the choir in a circle around the microphones and that this setup is able to capture even the physical movements of the choir.

Before recording, the acoustic environment is 'predesigned' with an array of tube-traps to meet your demands of the right reflection-absorbance mix of the emitting soundfield from the choir.

Last, I think, there might be a little blend of EMT 250 reverb. I don't know that device (we had only a 244 at the Electronic Studio of our Conservatory, that sounded quite different compared to a Lexicon reverb), but, as my sound memory doesn't betray me, I can recall a silvery shimmer in the reverb-tail, that is said, is unique to that device.

But please don't nail me to the cross, if I might be wrong.

Boris

Bruce Swedien 29th August 2006 04:14 PM

There is NO effect on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BoW (Post 856918)
Hello, Bruce Swedien,

could it be..

A pair of Neumann M49's in Blumlein-Configuration. I once read in an article, that you use to position the choir in a circle around the microphones and that this setup is able to capture even the physical movements of the choir.

Before recording, the acoustic environment is 'predesigned' with an array of tube-traps to meet your demands of the right reflection-absorbance mix of the emitting soundfield from the choir.

Last, I think, there might be a little blend of EMT 250 reverb. I don't know that device (we had only a 244 at the Electronic Studio of our Conservatory, that sounded quite different compared to a Lexicon reverb), but, as my sound memory doesn't betray me, I can recall a silvery shimmer in the reverb-tail, that is said, is unique to that device.

But please don't nail me to the cross, if I might be wrong.

Boris

Boris.....

WOW!!!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! You are absolutely right! (Well, almost!) You've been reading, and better yet, reading and remembering!!!

Here's the story....

"Man In The Mirror"....

As far as I'm concerned, the song, "Man In The Mirror" is the centerpiece, musically speaking, of the Michael Jackson album “BAD”.

I recorded the Andre Crouch choir on 'Man In The Mirror' with only two microphones. I used my favorite pair of Neumann M-49’s in the classic “Blumlein Pair” method. One of my unquestionably favorite true, stereophonic microphone techniques.

This is perhaps the best known of all single point stereo microphone techniques.

What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”?

In my lectures and seminars, around the world, I have often been asked, “What is the effect that you used on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”? Isn’t that something?

There is NO effect on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”. Or very, very little!!! And Yes Boris, there is a little taste of my EMT 250 on the choir.

I try to explaining by saying that the recording of the choir on “Man In The Mirror”, is a classic,(But simple) stereo microphone technique! Of course, in addition, you have the best gospel choir in the world, in one of the best studios in world! (Westlake Audio’s gorgeous, Studio ‘D’, in Hollywood)

This wonderful piece of music has a graceful, natural sounding, dynamic curve to it. From the transparent, burnished brass synthesized bells in the intro, to the Andre Crouch choir that comes in at the modulation and, of course, the music climaxes with the huge ending.

Boris, you are a bonafide-top-drawer-gasser!!!

Bruce Swedien

boing boing boing kfhkh

RaGe 29th August 2006 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien (Post 857205)
... From the transparent, burnished brass synthesized bells in the intro ...

[OT]

Hello Bruce,
I've always wondered what machine that was (Synclavier maybe), if your fantastic memory allows kfhkh
I used to play that song in high school and got close tweaking my DX7.

Regis

[/OT]

Bruce Swedien 30th August 2006 09:12 PM

Works, doesn't it???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaGe (Post 857503)
[OT]

Hello Bruce,
I've always wondered what machine that was (Synclavier maybe), if your fantastic memory allows kfhkh
I used to play that song in high school and got close tweaking my DX7.

Regis

[/OT]

Yes Regis, that is a Synclavier. And the burnished, brass bells that I am refering to are a very stock Synclavier sound. Works, doesn't it???

Bruce
boing kfhkh boing

grhuntuk 8th September 2006 09:33 PM

Hey Bruce,

What is the deal behind the rhythm of the kick drum?

i immediately went and listened to the track on a Apple eMac G4 on the in built speakers after reading your post. It had never occured to me before, but i found the rhythm really odd.

Who programmed the drums?

I would be extremely grateful if you can answer this.

Many thanks for such amazing stories. heh boing

Gareth Hunt.

paulsheerin 25th September 2006 01:19 PM

lectures
 
hey bruce.

i live in ireland. any plans to give a lecture here???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????