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-   Q+A with Bruce Swedien (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-bruce-swedien/)
-   -   Stereo tracks , always? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-bruce-swedien/82692-stereo-tracks-always.html)

Pepe Ortega 23rd August 2006 07:35 PM

Stereo tracks , always?
 
I know you love to record on stereo. ( since I read your comments on eq mag many years ago I started to record stereo where possible)
Do you recomend to record voice on stereo or must be mono?
Wich instruments and why do you think they must be mono?
Do you use matched mics?

Muchas Gracias jummpp

Bruce Swedien 23rd August 2006 07:48 PM

music recording phenomenon called "Wandering..."
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepe Ortega (Post 850239)
I know you love to record on stereo. ( since I read your comments on eq mag many years ago I started to record stereo where possible)
Do you recomend to record voice on stereo or must be mono?
Wich instruments and why do you think they must be mono?
Do you use matched mics?

Muchas Gracias jummpp

Good questions!!!! I NEVER RECORD A LEAD VOCAL IN STEREO!!! Why? Because of a little known music recording phenomenon called "Wandering..." "Wandering..." is what happens when a point-source recording is recorded in stereo and it moves to the left and right on it's own. It is very disconcerting and detracts from the mix. This is the very reason that I frequently use point-sources in mono in a wide stereo mix. That is when point-source sources are most effective dramatically in a really good mix...

Bruce Swedien


hidz hidz hidz hidz kfhkh

Jules 24th August 2006 08:32 PM

I wonder if you use much EQ on all those stereo tracks?

And if you do...your clients must be used to seeing you use two hands at once all the time..!

Actually DO you eq both sides the same? (to preserve exact room tone per side)

Or do you use EQ strategy's sometimes that involve NON symmetrical amounts of eq? (like one side bright the other darker)

kfhkh

pan 24th August 2006 09:40 PM

In addition to Jules:

Do you use Eq to place tracks in the Stereo-field?

Do you pan the tracks, or is the placement already kind of "fixed" by the recordings?

Do you by chance use Eq to "pan" the tracks? (referring to Jules)


Cheers, Niko

lukejs 25th August 2006 02:31 AM

yes...please elaborate ???
 
yea... I´ve been wondering about this since I read this post... I always thought that having a bunch of stereo tracks panned hard left and right creates this thing called the BIG MONO..... what´s the scoop on this ? Please explain how using stereo tracks doesn´t make it harder to visualize where the instrument is in the stereo field ? I could understand better if you used the ms mic technique on most sources, but to use two mics on a bunch of sources seems like your asking for trouble.... BUT .... " YOu Da Man " so please elaborate ! thanks !!

vaesion 25th August 2006 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan (Post 851379)
In addition to Jules:

Do you use Eq to place tracks in the Stereo-field?

Do you pan the tracks, or is the placement already kind of "fixed" by the recordings?

Do you by chance use Eq to "pan" the tracks? (referring to Jules)


Cheers, Niko

good question

vaesion 25th August 2006 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan (Post 851379)
In addition to Jules:

Do you use Eq to place tracks in the Stereo-field?

Do you pan the tracks, or is the placement already kind of "fixed" by the recordings?

Do you by chance use Eq to "pan" the tracks? (referring to Jules)


Cheers, Niko

good question:)

mammath 26th August 2006 03:05 AM

boing boing boing

I must admit, I'm just as curious as to your approach regarding any methods of treatment for those stereo tracks within a mix.

Eagerly, humbly...........patiently waiting for any insight on this.

Cheerskfhkh




@ Jules and Pan, great set of questions.

Jax 26th August 2006 10:48 PM

This is a dumb question, but I'm not getting it so I'll ask:

What exactly is a point source? A single instrument or speaker? Is a room a point source if it's single-miked?

Please allow me to take off the dunce cap and let me know, anyone.



Outstanding to see Mr. Swedien here among us! Thank you Bruce and Jules. thumbsup

Bruce Swedien 29th August 2006 05:14 PM

I have never found the M-S system a valuable tool in my work.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lukejs (Post 851727)
yea... I´ve been wondering about this since I read this post... I always thought that having a bunch of stereo tracks panned hard left and right creates this thing called the BIG MONO..... what´s the scoop on this ? Please explain how using stereo tracks doesn´t make it harder to visualize where the instrument is in the stereo field ? I could understand better if you used the ms mic technique on most sources, but to use two mics on a bunch of sources seems like your asking for trouble.... BUT .... " YOu Da Man " so please elaborate ! thanks !!

Good thought!!! BIG MONO!!! No Way!!! Here's how I look at it....

First let's take a look at the M-S stereophonic microphone system.

The late H. Lauridson of the Danish State Radio System discovered the M-S, or "Mid-Side" stereophonic microphone technique while contemplating the possiblity of compatible monophonic/stereophonic broadcasting. What he found was that by taking the sum and difference from the signals derived from Alan Dower Blumlein's original concept of co-incident-pair compatible stereo mike technique, one could concentrate the main sound source, the sum of the two channels, into the main transmitted band, and the difference in the multplexed band.

In the M-S system one microphone with a cardiod characteristic handles the overall sound picture, exactly as does the principal microphone in a monophonic pick-up. A second microphone having a bi-directional characteristic is placed very closely above or below the first mike and it is turned so that it's null plane(dead side) contains the principal axis of reception of the cardiod microphone. If the two microphone outputs A and B are interconnected so that the sum A + B and the difference A - B are formed, two channels result, in each of which one-half of the pick-up area is preferentially recieved. The M-S system relies on the fact that the principal axies of a pressure gradient microphone correspond to voltages of opposite polarity.

The significant advantage of the M-S system lies in the fact that one channel-namely the mid channel-carries a satisfactory monophonic signal. The decision as to whether a two-channel recording or a monophonic reproduction of the sound source is to be used can be decided at a later time. The original source must be recorded on two tracks of the multi-track, of course. This one advantage cannot be obtained with a classical X-Y microphone technique. With X-Y technique both channels must be used for achievment of good reproduction.

With the M-S technique you must use the M-S matrix system. These sum and difference boxes are done basically three ways.

#1-using amplifiers...

#2-using transformers...

#3-using a resistance bridge...

Obvilously callibration of the M-S systems matrixes must be done and verified frequently.

The additional electronics or transformers neccessary for the matrixhas always made me a bit suspicious of this technique. It just makes the microphone system a bit too complicated electronically for my taste.

In the early 1970's I did a series of recordings of Bela Bartok compositions with the strings of the Chicago Symphony. At that time I was messing around with the M-S technique. I remember that I found that I could use anything from a cardiod to an omni mike for the M(or middle) channel of the system, and it worked fairly well.

I also remember that I eventually abandoned the M-S system, for that project, in favor of an A - B stereo mike technique, with the mikes about 36 inches apart. I used a few sweetener mikes also.

One problem I've had with the use of the M-S technique is that many years back recording people would use the system and think that it would automatically give them a new and wonderful sound when recording the orchestra. I'd like to emphasize that the use of the M-S technique in no way replaces good judgement and knowledgeable microphone choice and placement.

I have never found the M-S system a valuable tool in my work. It seems to be really a technique from the early days of FM stereo broadcasting and the early days of stereo phonograph records. I think it is safe to say that it was an honest effort to remove the "Stereo Sweet Spot" or "Stereo Seat" in orchestra recording and reproduction.

>Using the Stereo Space<
________________________________________________________________

First, I try to think of the "Stereo Space" as a piece of musical reality. Once we have acquired that concept, we can conversely, also think of the "Stereo Space" as a piece of musical fantasy. Whether or not it could exist in nature, or in a natural acoustical environment, is irrelevant. Most of the "Stereo Spaces" in my recordings, began their life in my imagination...

I think of my stereo sound-field as a sonic sculpture...

I always try to make my stereo sound-field far more than merely two-channel mono. In other words, I always try to make my stereo sound-field multi-dimensional, not merely left, center and right. For me to be satisfied with a sound-field, it must have the proportions of left, center, right and depth.

Since the middle 1960’s I think my philosphical approach to using the "Stereo Space", has been to take the listener into a “New Reality” that did not, or could not, exist in a real life acoustical environment. This “New Reality”, of course, existed only in my own imagination. What I mean is, that before what I call “The Recording Revolution”, our efforts were directed towards presenting our recorded music to the listener in what amounted to an essentially unaltered, acoustical event. A little “Slice of Life”, musically speaking.(This “Recording Revolution” took place from 1950 through 1970)

This was not true just of myself, but was also true of many of the people that were interested in the same things that I was. We all experienced this same “Recording Revolution”. After that change in our basic music recording objective, along came the “New Reality” in using the "Stereo Space". ________________________________________________________________

Bruce Swedien


boing boing boing kfhkh