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-   -   M7 vs k47 capsule (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/771274-m7-vs-k47-capsule.html)

greenfields 6th October 2012 06:05 PM

M7 vs k47 capsule
 
What are you alls thoughts on these two capsules?

greenfields 6th October 2012 06:14 PM

I want to use the u47 on vocals and guitar. So I wanted to know your thoughts on which capsule would be better and why. Thanks!!!

Rascal Audio 6th October 2012 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfields (Post 8332503)
What are you alls thoughts on these two capsules?

I'm for 'em!! diddlydoo

Joel

Larry Villella 7th October 2012 05:03 AM

The vintage mic experts who have deeper knowledge
can probably answer this better than I can. My own
anecdotal evidence leads me to believe the K-47 has
a little bit more presence and air. I know that my '54
U-47 sounds "Darker" to me than our own Custom 47,
which is why we came out with a Custom 49, for a
closer approximation of the late 40's/early 50's tone.

If this hypothesis is correct, then I'd prefer the K-47
on Acoustic Guitars, the M-7 on Horns and Cabs . . .

I think BOTH would work on various vocalists.

bace 7th October 2012 08:20 PM

The original M7 capsule has a PVC membrane, k47 uses mylar membrane. PVC does not age well...

Larry Villella 7th October 2012 08:57 PM

Glued Vs. Screwed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bace (Post 8335339)
The original M7 capsule has a PVC membrane, k47 uses mylar membrane. PVC does not age well...

Good point!

And the M7 were originally glued, not screwed.

Tonycamp 9th October 2012 01:12 AM

i'm currently building a DIY ioaudio U47 clone. I'm trying to decide on m7 or k47, interested in opinions as well.

thanx

Doc Mixwell 9th October 2012 01:35 AM

m7

John Willett 9th October 2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Villella (Post 8335422)
And the M7 were originally glued, not screwed.

The M7 is still glued - if it's screwed, it's not an M7.

And the M7 is only made by Gefell in Germany - anything else is a copy.

John Willett 9th October 2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonycamp (Post 8338826)
i'm currently building a DIY ioaudio U47 clone. I'm trying to decide on m7 or k47, interested in opinions as well.

thanx

You won't be able to get an M7 capsule - you will have to get a copy if you want an M7.

Karloff70 9th October 2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett (Post 8339669)
You won't be able to get an M7 capsule - you will have to get a copy if you want an M7.

Unless you buy an old RFT/Gefell Um70 head and rip it open......coogefreshflowe

legato 9th October 2012 10:01 AM

Yeah, or an old U47/M49 of course................

hipaquarius 9th October 2012 02:09 PM

Microphone Parts
has a "vintage" voiced k47 type capsule that they call the rk7. Curious......


Sent from my SGH-T959V using Gearslutz App

illacov 10th October 2012 09:18 PM

I own a pair of M49 influenced microphones. One of them features ADKs GK47 capsule and I actually had a chance to demo a NIB Neumann K47 element against it. The differences were dare I say minor? I mean extremely difficult to tell apart, you could totally punch out with one over the other and not hear the "shifts" associated with using different microphones to make a composite take work.

I thoroughly enjoy my M49 with ADKs K47 capsule and they are certainly worthy of consideration, not only because of their price point but also because they sound so friggin' good. kfhkhkfhkh

Peace
Illumination

Vintageidiot 10th October 2012 09:23 PM

The Thiersch M7, mylar capsule sounds wonderful. It is a copy, and used extensively in newly built mics on the market. I have one in my U47 clone.

Tonycamp 13th October 2012 02:41 AM

pvc vs mylar
 
Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?

bace 16th December 2012 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonycamp (Post 8351073)
Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?

I think that might be very hard. They age differently.

kats 16th December 2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bace (Post 8545274)
I think that might be very hard. They age differently.

Then compare two new ones. It's easy.

As far as aging is concerned, Mylar is very stable. PVC tends to get brighter over the decades. Theirsch hasn't been making them long enough for you to be that concerned.

dandeurloo 16th December 2012 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonycamp (Post 8351073)
Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?

I have both. But not in the same mics. Once I build the second MK47 (waiting on the body) I will put the red line in it and compare. As of now the blue line I like better but its in a different mic so its no way apple's to apple's. I will say the Red Line did improve the mic I put it in. So I think both are great.

illacov 16th December 2012 08:36 PM

I also believe that the M7 is a smaller diameter than a K47 capsule. Circa say 32mm for the M7 platform VS 34 for the K47.

In my experience the larger diameter does lead me to believe that the K47 should offer more bottom end.

Peace
Illumination

kidvybes 16th December 2012 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfields (Post 8332536)
I want to use the u47 on vocals and guitar. So I wanted to know your thoughts on which capsule would be better and why. Thanks!!!

...there's always the 3rd option, Ben Sneesby's K7 (a hybrid between the classic K47 and M7)...Klaus Heyne seemed to like it:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...aus-heyne.html

Klaus 16th December 2012 11:23 PM

Regarding the difference between polyester (Mylar®, PE) and PVC membranes in M7-size and style capsules:

To a trained ear, they do sound remarkably different, and should be auditioned by a potential buyer before a decision is made.

Additionally: current-generation PVC membranes should not be compared sonically to PVC material from a decade ago: Germany outlawed the previous PVC formulae, for environmental and health reasons (harmful during manufacturing, not after curing). Different formulae set up and dry differently and the differences in molecular structure of the materials (my guess) also change the membane's dynamic behavior.

Healthy PVC M7 capsules are not per se brighter than Mylar K47 models, though they differ in response in other ways: K47 are softer, less aggressive in the mids. However, with aging, PVC dries up, and, as the capsule's low end goes, one is left with the impression of increased brightness.

illacov 17th December 2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidvybes (Post 8546809)
...there's always the 3rd option, Ben Sneesby's K7 (a hybrid between the classic K47 and M7)...Klaus Heyne seemed to like it:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...aus-heyne.html

Soon enough there will be another option but I'll let that cat out of the bag when its time


MUHUHWUAH HUAH!

Peace
Illumination

dandeurloo 17th December 2012 04:36 AM

Out of the number of M7 type capsule I have tried I think the K7 is the one I still want to get into one of my mics and do a comparison with. I have a few of Ben's capsules and he does great work. I bet it is very very nice. Maybe some day.

STRANGY 17th December 2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus (Post 8547031)
Regarding the difference between polyester (Mylar®, PE) and PVC membranes in M7-size and style capsules:

To a trained ear, they do sound remarkably different, and should be auditioned by a potential buyer before a decision is made.

Additionally: current-generation PVC membranes should not be compared sonically to PVC material from a decade ago: Germany outlawed the previous PVC formulae, for environmental and health reasons (harmful during manufacturing, not after curing). Different formulae set up and dry differently and the differences in molecular structure of the materials (my guess) also change the membane's dynamic behavior.

Healthy PVC M7 capsules are not per se brighter than Mylar K47 models, though they differ in response in other ways: K47 are softer, less aggressive in the mids. However, with aging, PVC dries up, and, as the capsule's low end goes, one is left with the impression of increased brightness.

Hi Klaus, some interesting background info since I'm currently considering buying a Gefell umt70/71 (which uses an M7 capsule). I'm assuming the umt70 is one of the current generation PVC capsules? are you implying the new material is sonically better or worse?

Are there any recording comparisons between these different materials/capsules? (Though i imagine it might not be particulary valid to compare a decade old capsule with a new capsule given that the 'age' of the stretched material might be causing more sonic differences, than the actual formula of the PVC).
Cheers

The Phoenix 17th December 2012 07:05 PM

Which capsule did the vintage U47's come with? Was it the M7 or K47 or both depending on year of manufacture?

Klaus 18th December 2012 01:12 AM

All original Neumann U47 came with M7 PVC until ca. 1958 (some stragglers were still installed as late as 1961), after that year, almost all U47/48 came with the first generation K47/49 identified by a brass diaphragm ring.

Regarding which MG mics came with which era M7 PVC: you will need to check the year of manufacture, especially with those models introduced prior to 2005 that are still in production today. Things got tight around the bass on MG's M7 PVC capsules around 2005.

In all cases, let your ears tell you whether the mic sounds frequency balanced of hard in the mids.

The Phoenix 18th December 2012 01:53 AM

Thank You Klaus!