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AB3 30th August 2012 04:18 AM

Great NEW mics designs
 
I am really interested in comments on the Josephson 716 now that some time has passed. All these threads about old mic designs are nice - but has innovation not brought about new things that are awesome?

The head basket of the 716 seems really interesting. Time has passed since there have been some posting about this mic, so I am curious to hear more.

But also, about other new mic designs - even if they have some classic influences - like the JZ mics.

Well - I guess I will see if there is any interest in those that are taking major risks to innovate in the mic field - something that I think deserve a lot of respect for the courage to do so.

For some reason, I refuse to believe that all the magic is in something old and cannot be created today.

Chris Nighman 30th August 2012 05:15 AM

Going to AES?

AB3 30th August 2012 05:22 AM

What an awesome idea. I have a major gig that weekend - but maybe I can make it work! Thanks. (Plus I Love S.F. !!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Nighman (Post 8212591)
Going to AES?


Peller 30th August 2012 10:35 AM

There's a lot of innovation in the world of mics. Off the top of my head:

Ehrlund (triangular diaphragms!)
Neumann and others (digital mics)
C+T / Shure (unbreakable ribbon mics)
AKG (electret capsules that outperform many conventional condensers)

I'm sure others can add many more examples.

John Willett 30th August 2012 12:00 PM

For visual design, JZ, Blue and Violet have some great and innovative designs - Sontronics also have gone their own way with designs with some very interesting shapes.

Of the more established companies, the Gefell UM 900 and M 900 / 910 have great visual designs. kfhkh

http://www.microtechgefell.de/images...00-a_nm_kl.jpg http://www.microtechgefell.de/images...M900_db_kl.jpg

AB3 30th August 2012 08:12 PM

Gefell is such an excellent example. Beautiful sounding mics - with a long history but not stuck in the past - they still innovate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett (Post 8213227)
For visual design, JZ, Blue and Violet have some great and innovative designs - Sontronics also have gone their own way with designs with some very interesting shapes.

Of the more established companies, the Gefell UM 900 and M 900 / 910 have great visual designs. kfhkh

http://www.microtechgefell.de/images...00-a_nm_kl.jpg http://www.microtechgefell.de/images...M900_db_kl.jpg


stolenlogic 30th August 2012 09:10 PM

those are some crazy looking mics

ddageek 31st August 2012 03:04 AM

Bocks 507, Nevaton, Sanken, Milab, lots out there you just have to look.

R-AP.SCI 31st August 2012 07:29 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Salutations,

I hope this isn't taken as "pimping" as it is not my intent, only that I take pride in the very things you are speaking of. Microphone technology needs to be pushed forward, the psychosocial weight of classic microphones has been the bane of this required advancement. Their sound notwithstanding, as they are truly great sounding. However, at present, I have observed the psychological association has dominated the sonic merits (perhaps even supplementing them). Enough history has passed in order to conflate the issues (as to what is sonic and what is psychological....as if there weren't enough difficulty separating these aspects, if there even IS a difference). Sound, being subject to a wide variety of criteria is a difficult thing to get a grasp on, especially for a manufacturer. The issue I see, and have seen, in a variety of internet and live fora is one of the following: Can a "modern" microphone ("modern" being used in a purely chronological context as opposed to a technological one) "sound" as good as one of older design and implementation across such a large palette of sources. "Sounding good", when referred to those of older types, is the area of contention....the definition of this has been vague at best ("magic" and "mojo") to dogmatically luddite at worst. There is, of course, the other side of the fence that states it's all in the dynamic distortions and various other interdependent, measurable, criteria.

It is of my stance that great sound with different design IS achievable. The true answer as to why it isn't done in a widespread/popular manner is a multi-fold socioeconomic answer that my already protracted post couldn't even scratch the surface of....however...in short it comes down to; marketing, fear, money. Nonetheless, new, great sounding, tube and solid state designs do exist and can take their place amongst the hall of hero's, if one were to be so bold.

The Pegasus microphone that we create is a inductor/choke loaded pentode, run as an actual pentode (a never before used pentode), a toroidal output transformer, a Stephen Paul audio ultra low mass large diaphragm (1.2micron) with only film caps in the microphone (output cap is of our design). I wont even go into the power supply.

We will bringing to market a microphone we have dubbed The Dove. Which will be a non-phantom powered solid state microphone, with bi-polar (+/-) power supply rails, separate capsule loading and output/driver circuits, dc servo output (so the transformer is directly coupled to the circuit)...We are working on integrating a controllable, 30dB Jensen 990 gain stage into its power supply chassis (by-passable of course, if you want to use a different, external pre)....our Thunderbird microphone will embody the same concepts except tubed.

We also feel that regarding looks, things can be "classic" but also beautiful and modern. Industrial design is important and, in a way, a part of a mics substance.

I have spoken with Mr.Josephson about a wide variety of things many times, and he is an incredibly intelligent individual, with microphones, and more importantly, standards beyond reproach. I would say that a purchase of one of his microphones would do anyone a bit of sonic good, lolol.

Baz 31st August 2012 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-AP.SCI (Post 8217750)
Salutations,

I hope this isn't taken as "pimping" as it is not my intent, only that I take pride in the very things you are speaking of. Microphone technology needs to be pushed forward, the psychosocial weight of classic microphones has been the bane of this required advancement. Their sound notwithstanding, as they are truly great sounding. However, at present, I have observed the psychological association has dominated the sonic merits (perhaps even supplementing them). Enough history has passed in order to conflate the issues (as to what is sonic and what is psychological....as if there weren't enough difficulty separating these aspects, if there even IS a difference). Sound, being subject to a wide variety of criteria is a difficult thing to get a grasp on, especially for a manufacturer. The issue I see, and have seen, in a variety of internet and live fora is one of the following: Can a "modern" microphone ("modern" being used in a purely chronological context as opposed to a technological one) "sound" as good as one of older design and implementation across such a large palette of sources. "Sounding good", when referred to those of older types, is the area of contention....the definition of this has been vague at best ("magic" and "mojo") to dogmatically luddite at worst. There is, of course, the other side of the fence that states it's all in the dynamic distortions and various other interdependent, measurable, criteria.

It is of my stance that great sound with different design IS achievable. The true answer as to why it isn't done in a widespread/popular manner is a multi-fold socioeconomic answer that my already protracted post couldn't even scratch the surface of....however...in short it comes down to; marketing, fear, money. Nonetheless, new, great sounding, tube and solid state designs do exist and can take their place amongst the hall of hero's, if one were to be so bold.

The Pegasus microphone that we create is a inductor/choke loaded pentode, run as an actual pentode (a never before used pentode), a toroidal output transformer, a Stephen Paul audio ultra low mass large diaphragm (1.2micron) with only film caps in the microphone (output cap is of our design). I wont even go into the power supply.

We will bringing to market a microphone we have dubbed The Dove. Which will be a non-phantom powered solid state microphone, with bi-polar (+/-) power supply rails, separate capsule loading and output/driver circuits, dc servo output (so the transformer is directly coupled to the circuit)...We are working on integrating a controllable, 30dB Jensen 990 gain stage into its power supply chassis (by-passable of course, if you want to use a different, external pre)....our Thunderbird microphone will embody the same concepts except tubed.

We also feel that regarding looks, things can be "classic" but also beautiful and modern. Industrial design is important and, in a way, a part of a mics substance.

I have spoken with Mr.Josephson about a wide variety of things many times, and he is an incredibly intelligent individual, with microphones, and more importantly, standards beyond reproach. I would say that a purchase of one of his microphones would do anyone a bit of sonic good, lolol.


I wish ALL gear "pimps" were as articulate and as humble as this gentleman. Great post, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about your new mics in the future.

kfhkh

AB3 31st August 2012 08:02 PM

I agree. What an awesome post. When will it be available to check out. I was reluctant to start this thread - but your post made it all worthwhile. Very classy.

THANKS,
AB

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-AP.SCI (Post 8217750)
Salutations,

I hope this isn't taken as "pimping" as it is not my intent, only that I take pride in the very things you are speaking of. Microphone technology needs to be pushed forward, the psychosocial weight of classic microphones has been the bane of this required advancement. Their sound notwithstanding, as they are truly great sounding. However, at present, I have observed the psychological association has dominated the sonic merits (perhaps even supplementing them). Enough history has passed in order to conflate the issues (as to what is sonic and what is psychological....as if there weren't enough difficulty separating these aspects, if there even IS a difference). Sound, being subject to a wide variety of criteria is a difficult thing to get a grasp on, especially for a manufacturer. The issue I see, and have seen, in a variety of internet and live fora is one of the following: Can a "modern" microphone ("modern" being used in a purely chronological context as opposed to a technological one) "sound" as good as one of older design and implementation across such a large palette of sources. "Sounding good", when referred to those of older types, is the area of contention....the definition of this has been vague at best ("magic" and "mojo") to dogmatically luddite at worst. There is, of course, the other side of the fence that states it's all in the dynamic distortions and various other interdependent, measurable, criteria.

It is of my stance that great sound with different design IS achievable. The true answer as to why it isn't done in a widespread/popular manner is a multi-fold socioeconomic answer that my already protracted post couldn't even scratch the surface of....however...in short it comes down to; marketing, fear, money. Nonetheless, new, great sounding, tube and solid state designs do exist and can take their place amongst the hall of hero's, if one were to be so bold.

The Pegasus microphone that we create is a inductor/choke loaded pentode, run as an actual pentode (a never before used pentode), a toroidal output transformer, a Stephen Paul audio ultra low mass large diaphragm (1.2micron) with only film caps in the microphone (output cap is of our design). I wont even go into the power supply.

We will bringing to market a microphone we have dubbed The Dove. Which will be a non-phantom powered solid state microphone, with bi-polar (+/-) power supply rails, separate capsule loading and output/driver circuits, dc servo output (so the transformer is directly coupled to the circuit)...We are working on integrating a controllable, 30dB Jensen 990 gain stage into its power supply chassis (by-passable of course, if you want to use a different, external pre)....our Thunderbird microphone will embody the same concepts except tubed.

We also feel that regarding looks, things can be "classic" but also beautiful and modern. Industrial design is important and, in a way, a part of a mics substance.

I have spoken with Mr.Josephson about a wide variety of things many times, and he is an incredibly intelligent individual, with microphones, and more importantly, standards beyond reproach. I would say that a purchase of one of his microphones would do anyone a bit of sonic good, lolol.


John Willett 31st August 2012 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-AP.SCI (Post 8217750)
Salutations,

I hope this isn't taken as "pimping" as it is not my intent, only that I take pride in the very things you are speaking of. Microphone technology needs to be pushed forward, the psychosocial weight of classic microphones has been the bane of this required advancement. Their sound notwithstanding, as they are truly great sounding. However, at present, I have observed the psychological association has dominated the sonic merits (perhaps even supplementing them). Enough history has passed in order to conflate the issues (as to what is sonic and what is psychological....as if there weren't enough difficulty separating these aspects, if there even IS a difference). Sound, being subject to a wide variety of criteria is a difficult thing to get a grasp on, especially for a manufacturer. The issue I see, and have seen, in a variety of internet and live fora is one of the following: Can a "modern" microphone ("modern" being used in a purely chronological context as opposed to a technological one) "sound" as good as one of older design and implementation across such a large palette of sources. "Sounding good", when referred to those of older types, is the area of contention....the definition of this has been vague at best ("magic" and "mojo") to dogmatically luddite at worst. There is, of course, the other side of the fence that states it's all in the dynamic distortions and various other interdependent, measurable, criteria.

It is of my stance that great sound with different design IS achievable. The true answer as to why it isn't done in a widespread/popular manner is a multi-fold socioeconomic answer that my already protracted post couldn't even scratch the surface of....however...in short it comes down to; marketing, fear, money. Nonetheless, new, great sounding, tube and solid state designs do exist and can take their place amongst the hall of hero's, if one were to be so bold.

The Pegasus microphone that we create is a inductor/choke loaded pentode, run as an actual pentode (a never before used pentode), a toroidal output transformer, a Stephen Paul audio ultra low mass large diaphragm (1.2micron) with only film caps in the microphone (output cap is of our design). I wont even go into the power supply.

We will bringing to market a microphone we have dubbed The Dove. Which will be a non-phantom powered solid state microphone, with bi-polar (+/-) power supply rails, separate capsule loading and output/driver circuits, dc servo output (so the transformer is directly coupled to the circuit)...We are working on integrating a controllable, 30dB Jensen 990 gain stage into its power supply chassis (by-passable of course, if you want to use a different, external pre)....our Thunderbird microphone will embody the same concepts except tubed.

We also feel that regarding looks, things can be "classic" but also beautiful and modern. Industrial design is important and, in a way, a part of a mics substance.

I have spoken with Mr.Josephson about a wide variety of things many times, and he is an incredibly intelligent individual, with microphones, and more importantly, standards beyond reproach. I would say that a purchase of one of his microphones would do anyone a bit of sonic good, lolol.


Well - the mic. is a copy of a Neumann design (externally) - but that power supply is a great looking modern design. kfhkh

automatom 31st August 2012 09:45 PM

Is the 'American C37' in the dove, a Josephson?

Plush 31st August 2012 11:57 PM

One of the things that is important in surveying mics is to get away from only considering the mics that are heavily advertised. There's nothing wrong with the advertising. That's not the point. However, these advertised mics suck up all the attention.

Pearl from Sweden offer really nice mics that use a rectangular diaphragm.
Here I like and use the CC22 cardioid.

Sonodore omni mics use a 60 volt powering scheme that greatly assists in obtaining better dymanic range and detail over those mics powered by 48 volt.

Of course modern and olden tube mic also use their own supplies and avoid the problems of 48 volt phantom. Here I am liking the FLEA range of tube mics. Their FLEA 47 is outstanding.

Replacing the stock electronics of modern mics (Schoeps, Neumann, AKG, Rode) with custom built electronics is certainly worthwhile. There are many designers who do this but at the top is the Dutchman Rens Heijnis. Also great is Studio S5 in Krakow.

Another advanced modern mic is the just released Sanken 55.

So delving below the surface is where to go for new sounds and new capabilities.

Larry Villella 1st September 2012 12:16 AM

KUDOS for JOSEPHSON
 
You can add me to the list of fans of Josephson!

His depth of knowledge is substantial. Kudos!

AB3 1st September 2012 02:13 AM

I have two Flea 47 M7 Ef12 mics. I probably only need one and thought of selling one - but something would not let sell it. I love the Flea build quality and service. Your other recommendations were interesting as well.

Larry - when you compliment your competition, you elevate yourself! Very classy. And you are quite the innovator as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plush (Post 8218460)
. . .Of course modern and olden tube mic also use their own supplies and avoid the problems of 48 volt phantom. Here I am liking the FLEA range of tube mics. Their FLEA 47 is outstanding.


aileka 1st September 2012 06:08 PM

Josephson is among the very interesting high end microphone makers. The C-700A and S are outstanding miss. The Flea 47 is also a very good microphone. And one microphone that I also like is the Bock 507 and I widh I could add it to my mic locker.
[IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1.../_MG_4863c.jpg[/IMG]

ddageek 2nd September 2012 04:50 AM

Dimitri,
I feel like I failed by omitting your designs, but I try to stick to what I have first hand experience with, the Dove has peaked my interest as I look at other more traditional C37 solidstate mics.

R-AP.SCI 2nd September 2012 06:38 PM

Greetings,

Thank you all for the kind words gentlemen, it is most appreciated!

@automatom: I have entered into a N.D.A. with the manufacturer and thus am unfortunately able to share particulars, my apologies. The truth is I would relish the opportunity to wax poetically about these particular guys.

@ddageek: Your non-mention is completely understandable! Thank you for the interest.

@johnwillett: Yes, except - amongst obviously different styling cues - we use a single layer open style mesh in the headgrill assembly. The orientation and gauge of said mesh is also different. All to great sonic effect. Thank you for the compliment.

John Willett 2nd September 2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-AP.SCI (Post 8223084)
@johnwillett: Yes, except - amongst obviously different styling cues - we use a single layer open style mesh in the headgrill assembly. The orientation and gauge of said mesh is also different. All to great sonic effect. Thank you for the compliment.

My understanding was this thread was about "design" - ie: the looks rather than the audio quality.

That's why I praised your PSU as it has a very interesting desig, while the mic. itself is a classic design externally.

R-AP.SCI 2nd September 2012 07:07 PM

Forgive me, it appears that I am mistaken. I did not get that from the op. My apologies.

kidvybes 2nd September 2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aileka (Post 8220385)

...impressive collection...but is that an Apex 460 peering out from the backline?...

John Willett 2nd September 2012 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-AP.SCI (Post 8223158)
Forgive me, it appears that I am mistaken. I did not get that from the op. My apologies.

You may be right - I took it mean the external design and looks because he specifically mentioned the JZ mics which are very novel in their looks and have a very striking design.

MisterA 3rd September 2012 10:25 AM

Great Thread. I am missing the real innovation on this sector, too.
We are not talking high-end, but Schoeps and Neumann do a great job with their new digital microphones. Especially the Schoeps Super CMIT ist just awesome. I just used it for a job and the second mode is just breath taking. I used it on a big sport event for a documentary. Of course the axis signal ist kind of distorted and not bright and overall "good" but i could hear the protagonist fine enough without the crowds in the background.

The Horch RM2J now called AM2J from "Analog Microphones" got it right. You don't need a new circuitry for every microphone. Their philosophie is take a good microphone and improve upon. Plus now it comes with a diamond :).
The design and fabrication ist outstanding and timeless. This is what i am looking for in a microphone, because the principles don't change much.

aileka 3rd September 2012 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidvybes (Post 8223296)
...impressive collection...but is that an Apex 460 peering out from the backline?...

Good question!:) It was meant to be modified, but given the complexity, I gave up and for the picture, it fills a visual gap. Should be replaced by much better at one point!

Suda Badri 3rd September 2012 02:41 PM

Now i have two mics on my wishlist... the UM900 and the ronin dove... both for the exact same reasons... pushing boundaries... i know these mics get a lot of flack here but i love the blue kiwi, it is perhaps one of the most unforgiving mics i have ever used... the speed with which it captures sound, i havent heard in any other mic (admittedly i havent heard some of the classics but have heard many) but for capturing crisp drum sounds from big distances and pop vox it rocks... but a UM900 is probably my favorite for the latter duty, it is been my next to buy mic since i heard it... and who ever mentioned ehrlund mics, cheers those piano samples sound great... and PS ronin I for one would love a mic that had enough gain i could just take straight into my converters, aes 42 is quite cool in that respect too

cool thread OP

Suda

Suda Badri 11th September 2012 01:43 PM

Also just a note in terms of the dove Mic... The electrovoice re 2000 is a non tube condenser Mic which has a separate power supply, Im not sure its because of of the samje reasons stated in the doves web tab but just a heads up

Doc Mixwell 11th September 2012 02:50 PM

Can't wait to check out Dimitri's new hardware, should be Radical&badass kfhkh

The Josephson C700A blows huge gusts of wind, up my skirt


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...39277070_n.jpg

Doc Mixwell 29th November 2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundKlang (Post 8490028)

Paul O'Brien- Berlin at 5 - LIVE IN STUDIO - YouTube

@DocMixwell: Does the C700A have a specific sonic character? Or can the result be adjusted in a wide range by combining the signals of the two capsules? In the video above, I am missing something. For my taste it is somehow too crisp or analytical sounding. Is it good as an MS stereo mic (omni capsule M, eight capsule S), too? Is it good for all kinds of sources?

Yes, it does have a specific sonic character, and tailoring the polar character variably, makes it hard to describe, simply because there are many ways to use it. I think it sounds FULL and has a WARM BELLY, SUPER CLEAR DETAIL and REAL 3D sound when you sum both channels to Cardioid. If this mic did not have its own vibe, I would not want one. In fact it has many vibes. Cardioid is just one of them. Turn the thing to the source and M/S you go! Use Just the Figure-eight or Use Just the Omni. CRUSH the Omni with a Compressor and find the best sweet spot with the pattern. Get creative.

I can't adress what you like, but I think if your buying this microphone, I would hope you would expect it to be analytical. I can't see wanting this microphone, if you did not want this kind of transducer. Crisp is certainly one way to describe it, as it is open, clear and bright. A Beautiful Bright. Not a Harsh, Zippy Shelved Bright. David's JT-12 Capsule [as used in the MANLEY GOLD REFERENCE, and the C716] is a fantastic specimen. Its top end is soft and highly pliable, and its off-axis rejection is freaking magical. Even though the sides of these microphones are magical, you had better know what your doing with a microphone of this caliber. Its not for kids.

Me, I like to use TUBE and TRANSFORMER based stuff, [with a lotta love and "finish" on it] which tends to work well with CLEAN microphones, for my taste. Patching this mic into the FEARN, or ELECTRONAUT, or RETRO, or BAE, et al, will give you that thick tone that is flattering, warm and soft. Almost heaven. Matching your gear up is the way to find the sound. If you like "clean-clean", no problem, but I like "clean-warm" and "warm-clean"...that's the way I do it here. I heard the C700A through my FEARN VT2 and nearly lost control of my bladder in the shop.

To conclude, I listened to that video and could not help but be distracted by the You Tube Compression, so I turned it off.

Can't see how you can judge the real thing by this,

peace
a/b

rkopald 29th November 2012 11:03 PM

Maybe just because I'm looking to upgrade my kit, but this one of the best threads ever on GS...out of many great reads..