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-   -   Room measuring with ECM8000 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/729040-room-measuring-ecm8000.html)

Aaron Rash 17th May 2012 05:27 AM

Room measuring with ECM8000
 
Hello,

Sorry if this question has been asked a million times but I couldn't find info on this. I got the ECM8000 in today for use with Room EQ Wizard. I'm not sure if I should be pointing it between the two speakers where I will be sitting (sweet spot) Or pointing it at either the left or right speaker. Also not sure if the mic should be pointing straight up to the ceiling since its omni, Or horizontal and possibly a angle? Any pointers would help greatly. I'm also not sure if I should be using the calibration file from home theater shack. , the mics frequency response is flat.

JohnnieTech 17th May 2012 07:04 AM

This should help you.

GIK Acoustics. REW Room EQ Wizard Room Measurement Tutorial video.

onceagain 17th May 2012 07:52 AM

As useful as the GIK tutorial is, it doesn't answer all the questions of JohnnieTech.

I'm also in the middle of running tests with the same mic and have been pointing it straight up at the mix position at tweeter (ear) height. I would like to hear about any other methods though.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Rash (Post 7887131)
not sure if the mic should be pointing straight up to the ceiling since its omni, Or horizontal and possibly a angle? Any pointers would help greatly. I'm also not sure if I should be using the calibration file from home theater shack. , the mics frequency response is flat.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...c-ceiling.html

onceagain 17th May 2012 08:54 AM

I don't really remember. I saw somewhere to point it to the ceiling, so that's what i did.

The thread you linked to is quite long. I'll get through it, but are we wrong to be pointing the ECM8000 to the ceiling? How should it be used?

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onceagain (Post 7887450)
The thread you linked to is quite long. I'll get through it, but are we wrong to be pointing the ECM8000 to the ceiling? How should it be used?

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7268743-post93.html

kfhkh

onceagain 17th May 2012 09:21 AM

ok, thanks. Plenty of grey area as usual with acoustic measurements.

onceagain 17th May 2012 09:49 AM

Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onceagain (Post 7887553)
Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.

Acoustics is not always easy … jkthtyrt

If you read the whole thing (or just my summery in conjunction with the manual for your mic), you can´t go wrong.


EDIT:
I haven’t watched the GIK tutorial but if you´re using a free field mic that measures flat at 0 degrees incidence, you don´t want to point it at the ceiling but towards the speaker. I guess they (GIK) assume that a diffuse field mic is used (since this is the most accurate way of measuring room acoustics) and if so, it should be pointing at the ceiling at an angle specified in the manual for the mic (at which it measures flat):

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7262986-post57.html

onceagain 17th May 2012 10:04 AM

GIK use a Behringer ECM8000 for the tutorial, stating to point it up.

Edit: I haven't seen any specifics in the Behringer documentation

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 10:10 AM

So either the ECM8000 is a diffuse field mic, comes with calibration files to simulate either types, or it should be pointing towards the speaker (if it´s a free field mic that measures flat at 0 deg incidence). Since it´s a small capsule mic it won’t matter much except in the highest frequency range so don´t lose any hair over this.

There seem to be some confusion about the ECM8000 in general:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...rophone-4.html
But again, it´s a small capsule so it won´t matter much how you point it except for the highest range

Mctwins 17th May 2012 10:15 AM

Just measure, don't have to make a thread about it. Wheather it points up or down. EMC8000 works great.

It is so easy when it comes to measure acoustics, even a child can do it. Some here on GS just confuse the topic about acoustics.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887593)
It is so easy when it comes to measure acoustics, even a child can do it. Some here on GS just confuse the topic about acoustics.

Look who’s talking ...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7864770-post10.html

Mctwins 17th May 2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887608)

Yeah, but, I have +/-3dB from 20Hz-200Hz without resonanses. What do you have??

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887623)
Yeah, but, I have +/-3dB from 20Hz-200Hz without resonanses. What do you have??

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...ml#post7494799

kfhkh


EDIT:

and ...:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7887830-post32.html

gooof

Mctwins 17th May 2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887633)

What do you have??

Glenn Kuras 17th May 2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onceagain (Post 7887553)
Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.

I am not sure it says to point it up but needless to say you do not want to move the mic when doing multiple tests in the same spot. The only time you move the mic is if you are trying to fine tune where the mix and or speakers should be or figuring out where a problem might be coming from.

onceagain 17th May 2012 12:38 PM

How would you recommend to point the mic Glenn? I'm pretty sure it says up in your rew tutorial.

Mctwins 17th May 2012 12:53 PM

It dosen't matter how you point it, just measure.

Glenn Kuras 17th May 2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onceagain (Post 7887821)
How would you recommend to point the mic Glenn? I'm pretty sure it says up in your rew tutorial.

I have always pointed it forward (maybe a little up) and never had a problem. I understand the debate on this but I also understand it really is a "debate". :lol: The point is to test and DO NOT move the mic unless the reasons I said in my last post.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887857)
It dosen't matter how you point it, just measure.

The expert have spoken ... :facepalm:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...eiling-b-k.gif

I´m not saying it will make much difference depending on the size of the capsule but still, statements like the above are just ignorant.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras (Post 7887868)
I have always pointed it forward (maybe a little up) and never had a problem.

Glenn, since you apparently have used it, what kind of mic is it? Free field or diffuse field (or more correctly, how is it calibrated; to measure flat at 0 deg, or at about 70-80 deg and flat if random incident)?

Mctwins 17th May 2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887876)
The expert have spoken ... :facepalm:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...eiling-b-k.gif

I´m not saying it will make much difference depending on the size of the capsule but still, statements like the above are just ignorant.

What will those graphs help him, he will still have 30dB spann in the freq resp wheather he points the mic up or down. You don't have the solution for it, do you.

The EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated, JUST MEASURE, for crying out loud.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887900)
What will those graphs help him, he will still have 30dB spann in the freq resp wheather he points the mic up or down. You don't have the solution for it, do you.

The EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated, JUST MEASURE, for crying out loud.

Do you seriously feel that you’re helping out more or what?

Why not use the tools as intended instead of just guessing?

Oh, and the "EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated" ... yes, obviously ... to measure flat in what type of field?!

Mctwins 17th May 2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887906)
Do you seriously feel that you’re helping out more or what?

Why not use the tools as intended instead of just guessing?

Oh, and the "EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated" ... yes, obviously ... but to measure flat in what type of field?!

I have EMC8000 mic myself, I have flat response, great mic.kfhkh

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887915)
I have EMC8000 mic myself, I have flat response, great mic.kfhkh

ok ...

So what type of mic is it then (or do I need to download the manual ...)?

Mctwins 17th May 2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887917)
ok ...

So what type of mic is it then (or do I need to download the manual ...)?

I have an great idea..
Post some measurements of your controlrooms and post it here with the EMC8000 mic so we can see the differen't.
Not much point showing other peoples measurements if you not showing yours.

Jens Eklund 17th May 2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mctwins (Post 7887946)
I have an great idea..
Post some measurements of your controlrooms and post it here with the EMC8000 mic so we can see the differen't.
Not much point showing other peoples measurements if you not showing yours.

:facepalm:

I don´t have a EMC8000.

onceagain 17th May 2012 01:58 PM

Mctwins, are any of your measurements posted on here? I would like to view them if possible, out of interest.

Mctwins 17th May 2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund (Post 7887979)
:facepalm:

I don´t have a EMC8000.

I can come and do some measurements for you, if you wan't. In one of your controlrooms that is.kfhkh