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Ricky Garcia 23rd May 2006 09:14 AM

Mics for Recording Electric Guitar
 
Hi

What are your dream combinations of microphones to record electric guitar and where to put them?

My chain is I have an Celestion Vintage 30 12 inch cabinet build into an ISO-Box --> Avalon AD 2022 MicPreamp --> Apogee Rosetta 200 AD Converter --> SPDIF into Logic Audio

A Sure SM57 I do have heh

Hope to hear some answers...

Thanks! howdy

stevetgn 23rd May 2006 05:44 PM

SM57 on axis into an ISA220, SM57 off axis (about 45/50) into an ISA220 and a quality large diaphragm cap mic (U87) about 6' foot infront (move about to correct phasing probs). Record all 3 mics to separate tracks and decide what you want in the mix! The cap mic will capture the sound of the whole cab/amp & room rather than just the speaker. Very little if any compression and EQ, let your mic choice and placement do the work! Ribbon mics work well on clean guitar (Fender Twin etc)

kingneeraj 23rd May 2006 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Garcia
Hi

What are your dream combinations of microphones to record electric guitar and where to put them?

My chain is I have an Celestion Vintage 30 12 inch cabinet build into an ISO-Box --> Avalon AD 2022 MicPreamp --> Apogee Rosetta 200 AD Converter --> SPDIF into Logic Audio

A Sure SM57 I do have heh

Hope to hear some answers...

Thanks! howdy

1 SM57, 1 MD421, 1 Royer R-122 ----> all into Neve 1081's.(drive the neve very very hard and lower the output...no compression is needed then- . usualy mix the SM57 and 421 and record onto one track, and Royer onto the additional track. Placement, you never know until you hear the amp and get a feel for where it sounds best!

GYang 23rd May 2006 06:20 PM

Royer into Germ or Tele.

seaneldon 23rd May 2006 06:32 PM

i try to focus on getting the sound with one microphone properly placed. if it doesn't sound good with one mic, i'll swap the mic out, not add another one for a combination of ****ty tones. i start with a good ribbon and try and get it all from there. if it sounds great by itself but needs more..."bite" is the word i guess...in certain spots, i'll put a dynamic on the grill. 9/10 i just use a Royer or an AEA R84.

Sigma 24th May 2006 02:45 AM

57 up close and personal and a large diaphram condenser anywhere from 6-10 feet away recorded on seperate tracks..hey i had to bounce stuff like crazy in the 24 track days

mdsmith64 24th May 2006 03:12 AM

Nothing really to add to the above excellent advice. Well...maybe this link:

http://badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

You should be able to tease a few useful jems out of that link. Also wanted to say I think you're a great player and it's good to see you over here (I discovered you on the Petrucci forum). Rock on!

Best Regards,

Mike.

kissingonstilts 24th May 2006 04:48 AM

I had tremendous success with an early Korby 47-style tube mic (Empyrean model I believe) in both cardiod and omni. It was about five feet from the cabinet and higher than the speakers (4 10"s - the amp was a Vero Gotham) - amazingly smooth and clear and magically musical. Never heard anything like it before or since.

cfjis 24th May 2006 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingneeraj
1 SM57, 1 MD421, 1 Royer R-122 ----> all into Neve 1081's.

Oh yeah.......
"I'd buy that for a dollar...."

jayfrigo 24th May 2006 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingneeraj
1 SM57, 1 MD421, 1 Royer R-122 ----> all into Neve 1081's.

All good stuff that I use often (well, I use the 121, not 122), but I use 1073, or sometimes 1066 instead of the 1081 (not that 1081 isn't a good choice too). I also have a bit of a secret weapon mic for hard rock and metal sounds that I've never seen or heard of anybody else using on guitar, but it wins almost every time. Point is, try some stuff you wouldn't normally think of. You sometimes find a real gem.

Also, listen to all the speakers in the cab before deciding what or where to mic. Not every speaker sounds the same. Sometimes they load up a 4x12 with a pair of vintage 30s and a pair of greenbacks in an X, and sometimes there's a new speaker among old ones, or even a blown one. They can all sound different, and you actually have to get down there and listen before deciding what to do.

warhead 24th May 2006 07:31 AM

For big guitars it's an AEA R84 and that's that.

For tight mixes let's face it...you gotta roll all that stuff off anyhow as there just isn't space left. In that case, an E/V ND468 is a nice tight mic that gives a good cutting sound on cabs without getting tubby in the mix.

War

Solunaris 24th May 2006 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfjis
Oh yeah.......
"I'd buy that for a dollar...."

I like Heil PR30's, 57's, 421's, and 121's into germs into API 550A's. There's nothing quite like that.

superburtm 24th May 2006 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrogantbastard
I like Heil PR30's, 57's, 421's, and 121's into germs into API 550A's. There's nothing quite like that.

kfhkh

so you got your 550A's and a germ?

Ricky Garcia 24th May 2006 08:25 AM

This forum is becoming my favorite place thanks to such cool answers!!kfhkh
Yesterday I finally managed to get a stable 96khz 24 Bit recording environment in Logic Audio and it might be my daily mood but I thought wow the guitar sound good much cooler sounding this way. Maybe the Rosetta AD Converter has a better working optimum this way but you guys probably going to scratch you heads now... heh

Will be hard to test some of the mics you mentioned just for the fact I dont have access to them... shiee

@ mdsmith: Thanks bro! I wish it would be still possible to spent more time on the JP forum but it turned to much into a bashing/ repetition board unfortunatly. It was a very cool place in the past. Paul Warren still rules though!freshflowe

Neukoln 24th May 2006 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaneldon
i try to focus on getting the sound with one microphone properly placed.

I agree with this entirely. In my experience, I have found that different mics suit different amps;
ie. The best mic I have found for an Vox AC30 is a ribbon mic - a Royer or AEA would be best, however I have pulled amazing results with an Apex ribbon. Pure magic.

On a Fender Twin, I can't beat the Shure SM7. A match made in heaven in my experience.

Goodluck.

George Necola 24th May 2006 10:02 AM

I think for distortet electrical sound its 50% player, 30% amp/box sound, 10% mic, 10% preamp...

if you forget my % numbers, preamp is as important as the microphone. try SM57 on chandler germanium. killer.

Ricky Garcia 24th May 2006 10:38 AM

Another question.. not only the Sure SM57 is one of the most used mics for guitar recording it is also affordable... so what otehr MIC would you suggest that does a good job but does not cost a fortune?

The MD421 is about 350 euros... not bad.

Thanks!

Andi Rauscher 24th May 2006 11:18 AM

the 421 is a good place to start in my opinion.

George Necola 24th May 2006 12:06 PM

depends on the amp, the player, the sound and the cab. there is no general answer.

if you wanna go the cheap ribbon way, try NADY ribbons, or the equivalent T-bone ribbon mics.

blackfire (sennheiser, out of production) is cool, the sennheiser 609 is cool, md 421, beta 57... It's a matter of taste, the facts above and thegeneral mix you achieve

uptheoctave 24th May 2006 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevetgn
SM57 on axis into an ISA220, SM57 off axis (about 45/50) into an ISA220 and a quality large diaphragm cap mic (U87) about 6' foot infront (move about to correct phasing probs). Record all 3 mics to separate tracks and decide what you want in the mix! The cap mic will capture the sound of the whole cab/amp & room rather than just the speaker. Very little if any compression and EQ, let your mic choice and placement do the work! Ribbon mics work well on clean guitar (Fender Twin etc)

SM57 seems to work for me consistently.
I'm partial to an E609 at times- also a 147 works for me for a room sound.

I've owned 1/2 dozen different Focusrite products over the years. I still have the ISA220 and come to the conclusion that they don't work at all for me for guitar tones.
Fine for vocals and bass but for guitars they are simply too sharp sounding.
I do use the EQ section in to to treat guitars to disk at times, but just use the line input.

JR

nathanvacha 24th May 2006 02:59 PM

There isn't any gear I'd mention that isn't already here, but I noticed several mic'ing techniques mentioned and not just mic. suggestions...

The thing that concerns me about this is: Ricky Garcia, are you tied to your iso cab? You mentioned that in your post and are you looking for what mic's you can stick in there? ... or just some general tips. I'd stick to either a 57 and/or e609 (or 906, or 409, whichever variation) if it's going to be stuffed inside there. Just a thought.

retropete 24th May 2006 03:28 PM

MD421 is like a Shure SM57 with more meat. I dig it.

Doublehelix 24th May 2006 03:43 PM

This is one of those questions where the answer vaires wildly based on the source, the player and the song...

Right now, with a classic rock sound (think AC/DC or GNR), using a Marshall Jubilee through a Marshall 4X12 with Classic 30's, I am using:

1) Sennheiser e609, Close-miked (high boost) -> Great River
2) Sennheiser MD421, Close-miked -> API 512C
3) Royer R121, back about 6-8 inches -> Focusrite ISA (med imped.) -> Little Labs IBP
4) Beyer M201, Close-miked -> API 512C
5) DI track -> Radial JDI (for possible reamping later)


No compression or EQ to tape.

This can get really messy, but I don't always use all the tracks, I track all 5, and then use what sound right, and blend to taste.

The e906 tends to be on-axis, on or close to the cone...
The 421 I like for some low-end umph, so it tends to be off-axis and out towards the edge of the speaker...
The other mic positions vary, and I always use an "MB" (mic bitch) to find the right position while I sit in the CR and listen to the sound.


Other times, I will use a SM57, a Senn MD441, an Audix I5, a Neumann U87, a Blue Bottle with the B7 cap... all give great sound depending on the sound we are looking for.

Someone else mentioned that the SM57 and a Fender Twin are a "match made in heaven"... I tend to agree, although the R121 sounds pretty sweet on a clean Twin too!

dubrichie 24th May 2006 04:26 PM

ok, other cheap mics for guitar cabs:

beyer m201
beyer m88

EV LS635 (i think that's the number, also not sure how much they go for now)

shure sm58 if you have to (unscrew the windshield or don't)

cheap ribbons of any kind (apparently the shinybox ones are pretty good, especially with the transformer mods)

many cheap condensors can do a surprisingly decent job when paired with a 57 or such. especially if you have a couple of decent preamps.

good guitar, good amp, good player, good TONE will all make much more difference.

regards,

richie.

Musiclab 24th May 2006 04:46 PM

lately, I've been really happy with my 414TLII into my daking 52270 into my Manley elop

stevetgn 24th May 2006 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmondjames
SM57 seems to work for me consistently.
I'm partial to an E609 at times- also a 147 works for me for a room sound.

I've owned 1/2 dozen different Focusrite products over the years. I still have the ISA220 and come to the conclusion that they don't work at all for me for guitar tones.
Fine for vocals and bass but for guitars they are simply too sharp sounding.
I do use the EQ section in to to treat guitars to disk at times, but just use the line input.

JR

Funny you should say that. I've just start another thread for "warm" pre recomendations!
What do you use on guitar. Avalon 737 seems to be popular for warmth?

Ricky Garcia 24th May 2006 06:37 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Great to get so many answers...

Here are some pics of my ISO cab.. not much space in frotn of it to get far away to record room... that other small mic is a calrec.. dont know much about it... the other is Sure SM57.

let me know what you guys think what second mic I should try instead of the Calrec I would say.

uptheoctave 24th May 2006 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevetgn
Funny you should say that. I've just start another thread for "warm" pre recomendations!
What do you use on guitar. Avalon 737 seems to be popular for warmth?

Groove Tubes Vipre.

JR

crypticglobe 24th May 2006 07:47 PM

Well... first off, I would change that speaker out for a G12H-30. BIG improvement. 2nd, I would be sure it's in a really great cabinet. A Bogner 4 x 12 has been my choice for a long time.

This is because the tone starts THERE... at the cabinet.

I have been VERY happy with pretty much the same combination on big rock guitars for a while now. A Royer R121 and a Sennheiser 421. I am using the Chandler LTD-1 on the R121 and the SCA N72 on the 421. Almost never any EQ. I will occasionally run one or both through a distressor (usually only on pushed or light crunch... just about never on more heavily distorted guitars).

For cleaner, or combo amps.... I really like the R121 by itself, or the R121 in combination with my U87. Just got it (the U87) cleaned up by the kind folks at Korby and it is TRULY stunning on that type of guitar and vocals!!

stevetgn 24th May 2006 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Garcia
Great to get so many answers...

Here are some pics of my ISO cab.. not much space in frotn of it to get far away to record room... that other small mic is a calrec.. dont know much about it... the other is Sure SM57.

let me know what you guys think what second mic I should try instead of the Calrec I would say.

No no! put the iso cab awaytutt . use some of the room sound dude!kfhkh