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JustMike 20th May 2006 05:49 PM

recording Marshalls
 
Why do they always seem to be close mic'd? I'm mostly a guitar player, but I take my recording seriously. Next week I'll have my Royer 121 and SCA API & Neve modules.
So if my amp is dialed in and it sounds great at my ears, I don't see how close micing a speaker or two can faithfully capture that sound.
I have no doubt that stereo distant micing has been tried, but why doesn't it work? Is there just too much ambience or room sound to mix around? Or did one of the old masters just decide to close mic and this became the standard for hard rock?
-OR have I just been fooling myself for 30 years that my live stage sound is good, just because it's loud and I can feel it? I know that for live sound, everything has to be close mic'd because of bleed. SO the FOH sound is going to be closer to the typically recorded sound. But I also know it doesn't really represent what the amp sounds like on stage.

thenoiseflower 20th May 2006 06:56 PM

the way i have always seen it , is.....
the cab is moving air, the mic is capturing it, (air is energy, energy disperses quickly), .... and finaly the monitors in the CR, or the car, is another thing that deals with the movement of air,

rock guitar is generaly moving a whole lot of air, and if thres is too much space(still air) beetween the mic and the cab, it can seem to have less presure and impact as it is played, room mics are cool for some if not most tones, but when it comes down to tone, and punch , it seems to my ears, allot of it is right up there against the speakers, also,

you can add room to a close mic if you need it, but its a far more ambitions job to make the "take", a really fat, dry, chunky, signal from an "airy" source


my 7 cents

CorkyTart 20th May 2006 07:03 PM

The Royer is going to add a whole new element to your sound, mic that and the 57. For some tips and pics, go to the Royer website.

max cooper 20th May 2006 07:53 PM

I read a long time ago that Jimmy Page said he mic'd his cabs from further out in the room. I do it fairly often when I can.

drundall 21st May 2006 01:03 AM

Dude, there are no fast rules. Do what the hell you want. I just mic'd a cranked half stack with a single 414 in omni from about 5 1/2 feet away (in a good sounding room). It sounded awesome. Set it on some wood for more "liveness".

You know your sound, you know what you want to hear. Obviously, if you want to sound like A7X, this is not the right technique, but use your imagination and experiment to find what works for you.

beechstudio 21st May 2006 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper
I read a long time ago that Jimmy Page said he mic'd his cabs from further out in the room. I do it fairly often when I can.

I heard that too Max! I've tried that several times and had no success. I guess part of that was my crappy room at the time. I'm gonna have to revisit that technique! I'm a HUGE Zep addict! heh

max cooper 21st May 2006 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beechstudio
I heard that too Max! I've tried that several times and had no success. I guess part of that was my crappy room at the time. I'm gonna have to revisit that technique! I'm a HUGE Zep addict! heh


You try putting a dynamic out there?

beechstudio 21st May 2006 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper
You try putting a dynamic out there?

I had a 57 in about 3" from the cab and a 4050 starting about 8 feet back and moved around, but never found the spot that worked.

What do you use Max?

BradM 21st May 2006 06:04 PM

I used to have luck using a small diaphragm conderser from about 3 feet away and slightly above the amp (at chest height). The amp was up on a table a couple feet off the floor. The room was a college dormatory...hard tiled floor with carpet, high ceilings and plaster walls.

I think the lone mic at a distance thing works best when you are within 2-3 feet.

Brad

Flymax 21st May 2006 06:31 PM

Put a 57 or 421 at 45 degree angle pointing at the edge of the cone (real close) and throw up a room mic stereo or mono...turn it way up thru good pre/eq and a distressor..you should be happy..

crypticglobe 22nd May 2006 04:44 AM

Oh man... this is such a huge topic.

Well...as said above... it really matters what you are going for.

For REALLY in your face with no ambience I like either a very close mic scenario, or varying distances from the cabinet in a completely refletionless room. The later can be REALLY killer if are fortunate enought to have such a room. :)

For more "natural", or less in your face... it's all up to you baby. Try it all until you find what you like. The room plays into this a LOT. Bad room... and you are screwed.

JMTC...

FFTT 10th March 2007 02:11 PM

Tile bathrooms and concrete stairwells have often played their parts in getting
those tones just right.

bdmctear 10th March 2007 06:34 PM

Aren't we talking about Marshalls specifically?
 
I personally feel that, for modern recordings, a Marshall (JMP, Plexi, 800) in particular sounds better closer up. There are textural elements that disipate as the sound opens into the room. Sometimes they can almost sound like bad early reflections or something.

Having said that, I almost always place a mic up close (been using an RCA Ver-acoustic the past year or so) as well as something out in the room, like a 414 or U67. I just rarely find use for the room perspective with a Marshall.

Fenders and Ampegs, almost always result in the opposite. Vox's somewhere in the middle.