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-   -   let‘s see a hi-end dac (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/699931-let-s-see-hi-end-dac.html)

enough233 15th February 2012 11:17 AM

let‘s see a hi-end dac
 
Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC: 9800$

outside:http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2011b/IMG_9503cc.jpg

inside:http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2011b/IMG_9676cc.jpg

source:Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC (inside) | MY-HIEND.NET

I can't understand the price for hifi dac:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

cheu78 15th February 2012 02:41 PM

I dunno that Jeff Rowland DAC..
but for that kind of money I'd get a Weiss DAC or the new Bricasti..
or for way less the Forssell..

just my 0.02$,

Cheu

Fletcher 15th February 2012 05:47 PM

For that kind of money I'd get a JCF "Latte" which also has mic pre's and an A/D... and is less expensive.

YMMV

Peace

Slikjmuzik 15th February 2012 07:41 PM

That's ridiculous, the only thing I see fancy is the face and possibly the Lundahl transformers, which are still under $100 each if you look hard enough. Everything else is soldered onto a board. Not really any point-to-point anything to justify the cost.

Jim Williams 15th February 2012 08:16 PM

That's a lot of scratch for an essentially out of date DAC design.

You have Analog Devices AD1853 DAC chips, obsolete and replaced by the AD1953/55 DAC's as used in my Bricasti M7 reverb. An ESS or BurrBrown PCM/DSD1792A chipset easily beat this.

Then there are Lundahl output transformers, their specs are worse in phase reponse and THD than several DAC chipsets. A Jensen JT-11-BMCF would solve that, but it's too big to fit that case. Why iron is used in a DAC other than to color or flavor the sound is not clear to me, unless that is the desired result.

There are several SOIC opamps, unknown types. Add a few surface mout electrolytics, maybe it's servoed.

The deal breaker is the gold plated XLR connectors. That is a sure sign appearance is paramount. Plating the shell of an XLR adds nothing to the sound or quality, it's cosmetic.

If anyone wants the sound of this for one hundred bucks, send me an email. I have an Analog Devices AD1853 DAC eval pcb wired up with a power supply and ready to plug and play. It probably has better opamps installed, I did add good ones. If you want that Lundahl sound, just patch it into one and there you go, $9,500 saved.

It just won't be as pretty.

BradM 15th February 2012 08:20 PM

Hey Jim,

If I wanted to DIY myself a set of A/D and D/A using the lastest and greatest eval boards out there, what would you recommend? Power One PSU I assume?

thanks,
Brad

Jim Williams 15th February 2012 08:30 PM

Not for critical converters. I would custom build them. A pair of Linear Tech low dropout regulators would be ok, or a discrete regulator design like the Jung/Diddon designs from Audio Express.

Usually all the local psu bypass caps on the eval pcb's are replaced with low impedance el caps of much larger size with fast film cap bypasses added on the rear.

BradM 15th February 2012 08:49 PM

Jim,

I guess my question wasn't clear. Which converter eval boards would you recommend? The power supply question was a second question. heh.

thanks!
Brad

VT-MHE 15th February 2012 08:51 PM

Yeah 9500 for an old dac is insane. looking for the rich fools eh?

Jim Williams 15th February 2012 10:36 PM

DAC eval pcb's from BurrBrown, or if you can get one, ESS. Prepare to pay.

Magucci 16th February 2012 12:31 AM

WTF $10K for a DAC?!

TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY!

Plush 16th February 2012 01:05 AM

The pictured item is just high end hi-fi gear. This has nothing to do with recording.

A well engineered $1000 dac sounds better than this junk. That's right---it's junk.

enough233 16th February 2012 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plush (Post 7568884)
The pictured item is just high end hi-fi gear. This has nothing to do with recording.

A well engineered $1000 dac sounds better than this junk. That's right---it's junk.

one of my friend wants to buy this for his hifi system, i don't know the hifi product, i recommend prism sound da2 if he has enough enough enough money, but he said that the da2 is too cheap, and it is design for recording not hifi.

i can't understand....:facepalm:

professional dac is not hifi?

cheu78 16th February 2012 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enough233 (Post 7569259)
one of my friend wants to buy this for his hifi system, i don't know the hifi product, i recommend prism sound da2 if he has enough enough enough money, but he said that the da2 is too cheap, and it is design for recording not hifi.

i can't understand....:facepalm:

professional dac is not hifi?

Tell him to buy the Weiss dac or the Bricasti or the Forssell.. Those are among the best dac ever built (among very few others)..

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu

stardustmedia 16th February 2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enough233 (Post 7569259)
one of my friend wants to buy this for his hifi system, i don't know the hifi product, i recommend prism sound da2 if he has enough enough enough money, but he said that the da2 is too cheap, and it is design for recording not hifi.

i can't understand....:facepalm:

professional dac is not hifi?

get a benchmark dac, repaint it, put a label hifi on it, sell it to him as custom made high end hifi for 8k heh

O.F.F. 16th February 2012 11:49 AM

It's a Jeff Rowland and that is all extremely overpriced junk.

The amps they make use ICEpower modules which, while not the cheapest class D modules, are the worst in a/b tests. Their 201s are $10 500 and compete barely with
$500 Behringers.
But they look better and many audiophools tend to hear the price tag rather than what actually comes out of them in form of sound.

studio96 11th May 2015 02:12 AM

Even if the post is a bit old, some adds:

There is much more about making an amp than just using read built power devices. The mentioned ICEpower module are really well, that is right, but powering is an issue. I used them too when rebuilding my oonitors and did some tests.

Fortunately I had access to pretty precise analog network analyzers making it possible to meassure impedance and transformation curves directly. Also a very fine granular spectrum Analysis can be done with my eqipment.

First: Ripple damping is not ideal with class D amps in general (as always claimed) but ranges from something like 40dB to 80dB. So one can observe the introduced ripple very well in the output signal. If we want 24bit precision audio, care has to be taken to handle this. One can show easily why it is a difference to use linear power supplys or switched power supplies with low and high power head room.

Second: ICEpower modules do have a known issue. There will be a significant residual wave in the range of the switching frequency which is strongly dependent from the input stability. Which other class D's are more spread frequency can be observed. In theory this high frequency should not harm the speakers, but the debris wich can be meassured after the filters in the loud Speakers especially at the teater's is significant and again way from 24 bit precision true audio. The impact of this frequency can be limited in adding the regulator's output to the final signal by a special auto adaptive circuit which performes compensation. This is done in many high precision regulation Loops like sigma delta conversion. I managed to lower this residual power by ratio 3 by adding 4 passive devices.

Third: Regarding the above issues it is a difference if more than one module is powered from one or two supply paths. In my final system I am using an individual SPS-supply for all the modules. For my application this is ok but for an ideal supply a linear power supply was even a bit better.

Forth: Power Supplies emit EM-frequencies and so do nearly all the power signals in the device. Therefore shielding is a big task. It is pretty easy to meassure the left channel's signal with something around -100dB in the right signal's path and the same can be done with the dirt from the power supplies.

---

Having a closer look at all the devices I know, which use these ICEpower or also the Hypex or similar, they all look different, use other concepts and some devices clarify that the designer put the emphasis on cost saving than on quality.

Given To Fly 11th May 2015 04:56 AM

This seems interesting:
Mytek Digital | Manhattan DAC
Also, it seems Mytek's Professional products and HiFi products are exactly the same in every way. I suppose it saves money on R&D. jkthtyrt

Jim Williams 11th May 2015 06:20 PM

Looks like Michal has gone with the parallel ESS octo chip. A pair of BB 1794's will do -132 db dynamic range, 2 db's better. 32 bits is all marketing doo, none of these chipsets can reproduce the 24'th bit, it's all noise down there. Burr Brown also makes 32 bit DAC chips, none can approach the resolution of their older PCM1794 DAC that I still use here.

Doc Mixwell 12th May 2015 03:05 PM

http://www.dspdoctor.com/img/p/674-1321.jpg